Answering Doubts Of Dalbeer Singh Ji Regarding Bani Onto The Tenth Master

[spnadmin]

By Gyani ji at this location - a new thread - Amrit Vela on the Moon?? One a Lunar Month ?? http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-...nar-month.html (Amrit vela on moon ? Once a lunar month !!)

Ok, let us come to the topic again...

I went through Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha's mahankosh (punjabi dictionary) and Prof. Sahib Singh's writings, and they too mentions that Amrit Vela means

1. The time of the clock before sunrise PARBHAAT as in Bahi Gurdass Jis Vaar and also Gurbani....
2. The time of freedom

Now, I personally like the latter, but the prevailing meaning is the prior one...

I searched for "Amrit Vela" in Guru Granth Sahib, and found only 3 shabads (please correct if I am wrong):
1. Amrit Vela, Sach Naao, Vadeyai Veechar (Pg.2) <PAGE 2 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).> Here it means the time of full blossom, the time of enlightenment
2. Amrit Velae Vatay Har Bhagti, Har Liv Laayi (Pg 734) <PAGE 734 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).> Here, in the meanings, he meant "the ealry time of spiritual life"
3. Babiha Amrit Velae boleya <PAGE 1285 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).> Here Prof Sahib means the dawn, but I know that BrainFever bird or Babiha, shrieks all day and night before monsoon.

More, by Shaikh Fareed ji "PAGE 1383 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan)."Fareeda, pichhal raat na jaageyoh, jeevadro muyeoh"
Could this mean the dawn of the life, instead of usual day's dawn??

 

[Inder singh]

Gyani ji

It is clear that amrit vela refers to the hours before dawn when the sun begins to rise. Taken at face value it gives a time when Nit Nem is most beneficial. But the term "amrit vela" as a metaphor also compares the time before dawn (sunrise) with the time when we begin to open our eyes in a different way, a more spiritual way. I think this is the point you are making -- amrit vela is too full of imagery to be understood in one way only. So please elaborate and perhaps dwell a little more on how the "doubts" of Dalber Singh ji and a figurative use of "amrit vela" are interconnected. I know it is there but some may have difficulty seeing the connection.

A similar idea is expressed by forum member Tejwant ji in Post 37.

Added later: After posting my request and then moving to the next new thread I noticed that you have given us a glimpse into your thoughts at this thread. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth/25573-amrit-vela-moon-once-lunar-month.html

And let us allow this discussion to occur because it will return our focus to the thread topic. Thanks!

You may try to justify distortion in sweet words but it makes no sense. However you seem to be good at jugglery of words. More hostility Inder ji, please debate issues not personalities. aad0002

Amrit vela is amrit vela and guru sahib has written it clearly.

 

[Inder singh]

By Gyani ji at this location - a new thread - Amrit Vela on the Moon?? One a Lunar Month ?? http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-...nar-month.html (Amrit vela on moon ? Once a lunar month !!)

Ok, let us come to the topic again...

I went through Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha's mahankosh (punjabi dictionary) and Prof. Sahib Singh's writings, and they too mentions that Amrit Vela means

1. The time of the clock before sunrise PARBHAAT as in Bahi Gurdass Jis Vaar and also Gurbani....
2. The time of freedom

Now, I personally like the latter, but the prevailing meaning is the prior one...

I searched for "Amrit Vela" in Guru Granth Sahib, and found only 3 shabads (please correct if I am wrong):
1. Amrit Vela, Sach Naao, Vadeyai Veechar (Pg.2) <PAGE 2 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).> Here it means the time of full blossom, the time of enlightenment
2. Amrit Velae Vatay Har Bhagti, Har Liv Laayi (Pg 734) <PAGE 734 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).> Here, in the meanings, he meant "the ealry time of spiritual life"
3. Babiha Amrit Velae boleya <PAGE 1285 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).> Here Prof Sahib means the dawn, but I know that BrainFever bird or Babiha, shrieks all day and night before monsoon.

More, by Shaikh Fareed ji "PAGE 1383 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan)."Fareeda, pichhal raat na jaageyoh, jeevadro muyeoh"
Could this mean the dawn of the life, instead of usual day's dawn??

You have copied it well but give benefit to the original poster also. Your liking does not change the meaning of Amritvela. Glad you like my copy and paste skills. Just want to be sure that the people reading the thread know that Gyani did what you asked and started a new thread about amrit vela. Deeper understanding can be found there. aad0002

 

[Inder singh]

Aad ji

Have you read shabad of Sheikh fareed ji on ang 1382. it makes a lot of sense. is it not?

PrIdw rwiq kQUrI vMfIAY suiqAw imlY n Bwau ]
fareedhaa raath kathhooree va(n)ddeeai suthiaa milai n bhaao ||
Fareed, musk is released at night. Those who are sleeping do not receive their share.

 

[spnadmin]

Inder ji

The meaning is clear.

 

[Inder singh]

To great giani ji

I hope you might have understood something about Amritvela by now. Above all it is experience of gursikhs who have attained realization.They can advise us what are the benefits of Amritvela. Now please do not tell me that there is no realization in sikhism as kala afghana sect says that.

 

[Inder singh]

Inder ji

The meaning is clear.

Thank you aad ji.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Inder Singh Ji,
Gurfateh.

Please READ...carefully before jumping to conclusions.
Bhalkey..parbhaat...etc all mean..Just Before dawn.
IN Fact when a Guest in ones house stays the night and says..aseen bhalkey jawangeh..means they will leave in the MORNING.
Gurbani is contemporary..and not time based/dated.
read my new Thread...and give your comments..:welcome::welcome::welcome:

 

[spnadmin]

Let's take a look at a broader part of the shabad in which the line is found,

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਪੰਖ ਪਰਾਹੁਣੀ ਦੁਨੀ ਸੁਹਾਵਾ ਬਾਗੁ ॥
fareedhaa pankh paraahunee dhunee suhaavaa baag ||
Fareed, the bird is a guest in this beautiful world-garden.


ਨਉਬਤਿ ਵਜੀ ਸੁਬਹ ਸਿਉ ਚਲਣ ਕਾ ਕਰਿ ਸਾਜੁ ॥੭੯॥
noubath vajee subeh sio chalan kaa kar saaj ||79||
The morning drums are beating - get ready to leave! ||79||


ਫਰੀਦਾ ਰਾਤਿ ਕਥੂਰੀ ਵੰਡੀਐ ਸੁਤਿਆ ਮਿਲੈ ਨ ਭਾਉ ॥
fareedhaa raath kathhooree vanddeeai suthiaa milai n bhaao ||
Fareed, musk is released at night. Those who are sleeping do not receive their share.


ਜਿੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਨੈਣ ਨਂ​*ੀਦ੍ਰਾਵਲੇ ਤਿੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਮਿਲਣੁ ਕੁਆਉ ॥੮੦॥
jinnhaa nain nanaeedhraavalae thinnhaa milan kuaao ||80||
Those whose eyes are heavy with sleep - how can they receive it? ||80||


ਫਰੀਦਾ ਮੈ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਦੁਖੁ ਮੁਝ ਕੂ ਦੁਖੁ ਸਬਾਇਐ ਜਗਿ ॥
fareedhaa mai jaaniaa dhukh mujh koo dhukh sabaaeiai jag ||
Fareed, I thought that I was in trouble; the whole world is in trouble!


ਊਚੇ ਚੜਿ ਕੈ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਤਾਂ ਘਰਿ ਘਰਿ ਏਹਾ ਅਗਿ ॥੮੧॥
oochae charr kai dhaekhiaa thaan ghar ghar eaehaa ag ||81||
When I climbed the hill and looked around, I saw this fire in each and every home. ||81||


At first it does seem as if Fareed is talking about the physical process of sleep. He even says "the morning drums are beating." But why would he be concerned that a person asleep would not get "his share" of musk. That is not a human concern. Fareed's irony in this statement is found in the first clue. Fareed is not referring to musk, physical sleep, the night, the morning, in any literal sense. The first line of the above section of Gurbani actually alerts us to the spiritual nature of the message by Fareed. The bird is a guest in this world garden -- i.e., Waheguru has permitted the bird to spent a little time in the earthly garden, and Waheguru has permitted the bird (our spiritual self) to spent a little time on earth in the gareden of our lives, or even has permitted the soul to spend a little time in the body. And then in the final lines we find out we are not talking about sleep or the time of day, but something very different. Fareed, I thought I was in trouble. The whoel world is in trouble. I climbed the hill and looked around. There was a fire in each and every house.

What kind of follow-up are those lines for the idea that sleep and musk are meant to be taken literally? It is not at all logical to think of Fareed, musk is released at night. Those who are sleeping do not receive their share in literal terms either. You know that. So why then think of sleeping or morning or "amrit vela" only in a literal way. Too much of the spiritual sense is lost if one does that.

 

[Inder singh]

Bhai nand lal ji on Amritvela and gurmantra

Gursikh rahet sunhu ray mee-t.
Parbhatay uth kar hi-t cheet.
Waheguru mantaar so jaap.
Kar ishnaan parh-hay jap jaap.

O Gursikh friends, listen to the rahet, the code of conduct.
Arise in wee hours of the morning and in your heart lovingly contemplate
Meditate upon the mantar 'Waheguru'.
Take a bath and recite (the Bani) Jap Ji and Jaap (Sahib).

Post copied to http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth/25573-amrit-vela-moon-once-lunar-month.html So not to break up the flow of this discussion. aad0002

 

[spnadmin]

Bhai nand lal ji on Amritvela and gurmantra

Gursikh rahet sunhu ray mee-t.
Parbhatay uth kar hi-t cheet.
Waheguru mantaar so jaap.
Kar ishnaan parh-hay jap jaap.

O Gursikh friends, listen to the rahet, the code of conduct.
Arise in wee hours of the morning and in your heart lovingly contemplate
Meditate upon the mantar 'Waheguru'.
Take a bath and recite (the Bani) Jap Ji and Jaap (Sahib).

That is one way of looking at it. But if you were on the moon you would only do this twice a year. Right? See Gyani ji's new thread.

 

[spnadmin]

What is the connection of all of this to Dalbeer Singh ji :advocate:

 

[spnadmin]

The posts by Inder Singh ji by Bhai Chand Lal about amrit vela and related Gurbani have been moved to the thread about amrit vela where they will be more relevant http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth/25573-amrit-vela-moon-once-lunar-month.html

 

[Inder singh]

The posts by Inder Singh ji by Bhai Chand Lal about amrit vela and related Gurbani have been moved to the thread about amrit vela where they will be more relevant http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth/25573-amrit-vela-moon-once-lunar-month.html

Aad ji

I suggest that keep this thread started by Vijayadeep singh for dasam granth discussion. Peopel have tendency to intrude upon and hijack the thread.

 

[spnadmin]

 

[Inder singh]

You have copied it well but give benefit to the original poster also. Your liking does not change the meaning of Amritvela. Glad you like my copy and paste skills. Just want to be sure that the people reading the thread know that Gyani did what you asked and started a new thread about Amrit vela. Deeper understanding can be found there. aad0002

aad ji

You have deliberately not understood what i said. In plain language it means that you have stolen the that quote from someone's article and put it under your name. I know that person. It amounts to theft.

 

[spnadmin]

Inder ji

Please point out the quote and i will address the problem. You never told me which line, lines were not referenced. Thank you.

 

[Inder singh]

Inder ji

Please point out the quote and i will address the problem. You never told me which line, lines were not referenced. Thank you.

When i point out you conveniently delete my post. the article mentioned below

By Gyani ji at this location - a new thread - Amrit Vela on the Moon?? One a Lunar Month ?? http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-...nar-month.html (Amrit vela on moon ? Once a lunar month !!)

Ok, let us come to the topic again...

I went through Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha's mahankosh (punjabi dictionary) and Prof. Sahib Singh's writings, and they too mentions that Amrit Vela means

1. The time of the clock before sunrise PARBHAAT as in Bahi Gurdass Jis Vaar and also Gurbani....
2. The time of freedom

Now, I personally like the latter, but the prevailing meaning is the prior one...

I searched for "Amrit Vela" in Guru Granth Sahib, and found only 3 shabads (please correct if I am wrong):
Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25492 (Answering Doubts of Dalbeer Singh Ji Regarding Bani onto the Tenth Master)
1. Amrit Vela, Sach Naao, Vadeyai Veechar (Pg.2) <PAGE 2 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).> Here it means the time of full blossom, the time of enlightenment
Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25492 (Answering Doubts of Dalbeer Singh Ji Regarding Bani onto the Tenth Master)
2. Amrit Velae Vatay Har Bhagti, Har Liv Laayi (Pg 734) <PAGE 734 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).> Here, in the meanings, he meant "the ealry time of spiritual life"
3. Babiha Amrit Velae boleya <PAGE 1285 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).> Here Prof Sahib means the dawn, but I know that BrainFever bird or Babiha, shrieks all day and night before monsoon.

More, by Shaikh Fareed ji "PAGE 1383 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan)."Fareeda, pichhal raat na jaageyoh, jeevadro muyeoh"
Could this mean the dawn of the life, instead of usual day's dawn??​

 

[Inder singh]

aad ji


see below as you seem to be very eager to know. Ask Giani ji not to be a hypocrite by copying others material and pasting under that his name.That is what he has included in his article. He will try to wiggle out from this mess by writing long irrelevant post.
Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25573 (Amrit vela on moon ? Once a lunar month !!)

see the link below. Click on babiha


BABIHA

I searched for "Amrit Vela" in Guru Granth Sahib, and found only 3 shabads (please correct if I am wrong):
1. Amrit Vela, Sach Naao, Vadeyai Veechar (Pg.2) <PAGE 2 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).> Here it means the time of full blossom, the time of enlightenment
2. Amrit Velae Vatay Har Bhagti, Har Liv Laayi (Pg 734) <PAGE 734 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).> Here, in the meanings, he meant "the ealry time of spiritual life"
3. Babiha Amrit Velae boleya <PAGE 1285 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).> Here Prof Sahib means the dawn, but I know that BrainFever bird or Babiha, shrieks all day and night before monsoon.
Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25573 (Amrit vela on moon ? Once a lunar month !!)

More, by Shaikh Fareed ji "PAGE 1383 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan)."Fareeda, pichhal raat na jaageyoh, jeevadro muyeoh"
Could this mean the dawn of the life, instead of usual day's dawn??

Since, I am trying to look at every angle and then finding the Truth, so that it cannot be

 

[spnadmin]

Inder ji -- Go back to the first post in http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-...regarding.html (Answering Doubts of Dalbeer Singh Ji Regarding Bani onto the Tenth Master) and you will find this statement,

"In Gurbani Class , we discussed 6th Pauree of Maajh ki Vaar, in which there was a mention of special techniques, auspicious Dates and times to do special tasks/ prayers etc people do to recite WAHEGURU...RAAM...GOPAL..NARAYAN..etc etc as "NAAM JAPP" ...and no sooner said than..the inevitable uqestion came up like a ??? floater... that the usual conception of "Meditating and sitting before dawn and chanting GOD's physical(?) name" would also be called under the same technique, and doing special task at special time?? "

This is what Gyani ji was discussing in Gurbani class -- this blog entry, the BABIHA BLOG -- when the discussion of Amrit vela came up a student in GYANI'S class used the arguments on the BABIHA BLOG -- covering the math, the rotation of the moon, and so forth and so forth and so forth. I read that very clearly to say that the student/s raised this argument in toto. Gyani is sharing the topic from class discussion with the forum. His only mistake was to leave out the reference. But now he has your reprimand. Do not make a mountain out of a molehill.