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Answering The Wrong Doubts About Bani Onto Tenth Master

Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh
ਪੰਨਾ 1106, ਸਤਰ 13
ਨੀਚਹ ਊਚ ਕਰੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਕਾਹੂ ਤੇ ਨ ਡਰੈ ॥੧॥
Nīcẖah ūcẖ karai mėrā gobinḏ kāhū ṯė na darai. ||1||
You exalt and elevate the lowly, O my Lord of the Universe; You are not afraid of anyone. ||1||

It does not mean make low life literature such as dasam granth to high life. It means, get rid of vikaars in people and make them great. ------------PERSONAL REMARKS-----------------

--------PLEASE USE A CIVIL TONGUE KHALSA FAUJ--------------

Are yourself not aware the weak and poor other then being spritual sound had to plotically and socio economically sound.

Panth has to work,for doing on gorund,what has to be done in book.Kindly come on gournd.We have had a misl ruled by Bhai Beeru Singh Raghureta at Gujranwala.
 
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Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

Some Truths about anti Dasham Granth guys.

Well if Sangat wants das can provide a lists of those guys who are Anti Dasham Granth Sahib,who have left back ground.

Das will write something about power of Panth.

If we are one we are capable to rule.While when we are divided oppresor could rule us.


In past we had first Anti Dasham Granth person,Profesor Gurmukh Singh actualy been accused of being soft of Britishers and taking help from the person who was mani reason for the defeat of Sikhs in Anglo Singh war.Sikh Missionary Collage has materail telling about that.

Next we have Teja Singh Ji of Bhsaour agained blamed to be agent og Britishers.


When Britishers went off.We Had Congres as our rulers.

During emergency Mrs Indira Gandhi made all oppanat subdued and she bacame the dectator.

Only SGPC and Akal Takaht due to its power of faith remained undisturbed and were main hub to sucessfully fight her.

Comunist Party of India(CPI) with russian support did suport Mrs Gandhi and thier cadres overtook educational and press intstituations(From thence Anti Sikh crept overe there too).

She in order to divivde Sikhs sometime used Sants,sometime Budhadal,sometimes she did use meat issue and only at that time of 1976 did
Bhag Singh Ambala borught Anti Dasham Granth book so that Sikh be divided.

(Bhag Singh's old name was bhagmal and was an Arya Samaji and had conduct of Krishna(referance boob by Bhai Harbans Singh Ji)).

During that time did some Sant was also been suported by congres and Gurbax Singh Khalsa(who later became Kala Afghana) was planted in faith from Punjab police.

Ambala was puished and he also apologised for mis conduct.Gurbax reamiend with sant.

But when Akalis were in Punjab rule and BJP at centrea Gurbax with the name of Kala Afghana was brought in by the congress so that let Sikhs instead of converting more people in Panth,should start fighting among themselves.

He was thrown out of Panth.Later his relative Joginder of spokesmen also joined him.He was also thrown out.

Till congress later stayed in Punjab all govenemt tender news etc. were givne to spokesmen and it was made to establish against Akal Takhat and SGPC.

As rule has again changed so thier power has lessoned.Once congres is also off the rule in India all voices of decent of Dasham Granth will cease to exists.

Das persoanly has no enimity for Anti Dasham Granth people.

Das has nothing if they folow or do not follow Gurmat.

But when they spread wrong interpetations and they are replied back they use foul lnagugae,which is another proff of communists.


Reason for comunsts being against us is due to the fact we are the only power,which are capable to take the whole world and and anti thesei to leftism.

Till we are there no China can take India nor its allies Muslims take the west.

Thier main agenda is to spread lies and panick and ultimately make our children faithless.

Das thinks that our dear brother TKF is misguided by such guys.das still loves him.

Lastly was will repeat that Tenth Master saying that Guru Granth Sahib Ji are our Guru is not writtan in Guru Granth Sahib so that makes it unfit to voice of Guru saying of Guru.Strange thing.

But if Bani is Guru,then why is not Bani of Tenth Master our Guru.
 
Dec 1, 2006
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Gurfateh


Are yourself not aware the weak and poor other then being spritual sound had to plotically and socio economically sound.

Panth has to work,for doing on gorund,what has to be done in book.Kindly come on gournd.We have had a misl ruled by Bhai Beeru Singh Raghureta at Gujranwala.

I have no clue what you are talking about or how missals are related to dasam granth as per your case. It does not make sense at all. I don't care about Teja Singh.

I just abide by Gurmat of ONE:
One God
One Guru (Guru Granth)
One Panth

That is it. Anything outside Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not Gurbani because Gurbani has been sealed with Mundaawni.

Anything outside Guru Granth Sahib Ji has to be judged and if it doesn't clearly pass the test of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it isn't Gurbani or Sikh scripture.

Dasam Granth doesn't so it is under the knife for examination and it is beign exposed.
 
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I don't care if you love me or not. I don't need any statements full of pakhand from you. Pakhand and cleverness will not get you Gurmat or Guru or God. Only thing I care about is if Guru loves me or not which Guru Ji does.

---------------STOP GETTING PERSONAL. USING WORDS LIKE PAAKHAND DO NOT HELP------------------
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh
I have no clue what you are talking about or how missals are related to dasam granth as per your case.
Which Misls do you talk about dear?

It is something anyway what Nabha Sahib talked about Sakhi of Bhai Sukha Singh Ji?

It does not make sense at all. I don't care about Teja Singh.

What does not male sense?

But vies of yourself are like that of Babu Teja Singh Ji .

I just abide by Gurmat of ONE:
One God
One Guru (Guru Granth)
One Panth
Das talked about Duja Bhav having something second to God.What is differance between yourself and that idol worshipper who has many demi gods.

Here yourself talked about Three entity.But Guru is one ,Guru Guru Eko Ves Anek.Same Guru in all forms.In Panth and Granth Guru is visisble.

One God,which is bound by text.
One Guru,which is interpreted by way some non spritual greatmen.
one Panth,only those who accede to some narrow minded idealogy.

That is not the Gurmat Dear bro.

When our mind is no more and we are in control of Guru,our mind is overtaken by thoughts of Guru.We do not think but Guru thinks there we say Gurmat.

Rest is manmat.Views of sel mind.
That is it. Anything outside Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not Gurbani because Gurbani has been sealed with Mundaawni.

Mundavani was writtan much before Verse unto the Ninth Master.

Had there been a full stop then Bani unto Tenth Master might not have came.

Do you want to prove that at the Time of Fifth Master there was a full stop of coming of the Bani but later God changed the mind and send the new Bani.

If God can change mind then why not mind could be changed more then one time.

But by the way why does Salok Mahal Panjawan comes after Mundavini?

Has this been Mangacharan then it should ahve had comme before sealing why did it comes after Mundavini?

Why does both of then ends with ..1..

So does Raagmala?

Are you aware that oldest version Madhavnam Kamkandla is there in manuscript of the Kankroli and it is around the time of Tenth Master and during then only was Alam living.

See another simlar Mudavini.

ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ
सलोकु मः ३ ॥
Salok mehlā 3.
Shalok, Third Mehl:

ਥਾਲੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਤੈ ਵਸਤੂ ਪਈਓ ਹਰਿ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੁ
थालै विचि तै वसतू पईओ हरि भोजनु अम्रितु सारु ॥
Thālai vicẖ ṯai vasṯū pa­ī­o har bẖojan amriṯ sār.
Upon the plate, three things have been placed; this is the sublime, ambrosial food of the Lord.

ਜਿਤੁ ਖਾਧੈ ਮਨੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤੀਐ ਪਾਈਐ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰੁ
जितु खाधै मनु त्रिपतीऐ पाईऐ मोख दुआरु ॥
Jiṯ kẖāḏẖai man ṯaripaṯ­ī­ai pā­ī­ai mokẖ ḏu­ār.
Eating this, the mind is satisfied, and the Door of Salvation is found.

ਇਹੁ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਅਲਭੁ ਹੈ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਲਭੈ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ
इहु भोजनु अलभु है संतहु लभै गुर वीचारि ॥
Ih bẖojan alabẖ hai sanṯahu labẖai gur vīcẖār.
It is so difficult to obtain this food, O Saints; it is obtained only by contemplating the Guru.

ਏਹ ਮੁਦਾਵਣੀ ਕਿਉ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਕਢੀਐ ਸਦਾ ਰਖੀਐ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰਿ
एह मुदावणी किउ विचहु कढीऐ सदा रखीऐ उरि धारि ॥
Ėh muḏāvaṇī ki­o vicẖahu kadẖī­ai saḏā rakẖī­ai ur ḏẖār.
Why should we cast this riddle out of our minds? We should keep it ever enshrined in our hearts.

ਏਹ ਮੁਦਾਵਣੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਪਾਈ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾ ਲਧੀ ਭਾਲਿ
एह मुदावणी सतिगुरू पाई गुरसिखा लधी भालि ॥
Ėh muḏāvaṇī saṯgurū pā­ī gursikẖā laḏẖī bẖāl.
The True Guru has posed this riddle. The Guru's Sikhs have found its solution.

ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਸੁ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਸੁ ਬੁਝਸੀ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਘਾਲਿ ॥੧॥
नानक जिसु बुझाए सु बुझसी हरि पाइआ गुरमुखि घालि ॥१॥
Nānak jis bujẖā­ė so bujẖsī har pā­i­ā gurmukẖ gẖāl. ||1||
O Nanak, he alone understands this, whom the Lord inspires to understand. The Gurmukhs work hard, and find the Lord. ||1||

ang (645).

Anything outside Guru Granth Sahib Ji has to be judged and if it doesn't clearly pass the test of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it isn't Gurbani or Sikh scripture.
Agreed but das again asks you that where in Guru Granth Sahib did Tenth Master wrote that Sikhs should behold them as Guru.We use only Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani and Sabad Guru Surat Dhun Chela and does justfy this with Guru Manyo Granth.

So in the same way we could prove the work of the Tenth Master.
Dasam Granth doesn't so it is under the knife for examination and it is beign exposed.

Brother it does.Das is proving and welcomes more doubt.

But why bring under knife.We should be briging everything under the light.

Knife is anyway a form of Akal as per Dasham Granth Sahiubh Ji.

So far oposers of Shri Dasham granth Sahib Ji are being exposed.

Like yourself Amabala Sahib also fought with some one saying that he does know thw grammer.But he himself(Ambala Ji) could not explain the grramer.

Reason for Kala Afghan Sahib not coming to Akal Takhat is also behind the same.

Kala Afghan says that as some Bhatts had some probelms with Guru ,Guru sent some to get them(He is equating himslefs with Bhatts,tommorow,he may try to add him Bani in Guru Granth Sahib.Another Anti Dasham Granth guys Niranakaris wrote thier own Avtar Bani).

Main reason is that both did not write thier books but gave thier name.

Das is surprised that people who actualy wrote the books did not have couarage to own them.

I don't care if you love me or not. I don't need any statements full of pakhand from you. Pakhand and cleverness will not get you Gurmat or Guru or God. Only thing I care about is if Guru loves me or not which Guru Ji does.
Bhai das does not need anything else if faith is Akal.

If yourself know that Guru Sahib love you then das bows his head to you.

Forgive das if he das ever offended yourself.Like many other friends of Das,who are Anti Dasham Granth Sahib,das aslo beholds yourself as one of his brilliant brother.

Also even if we have differant opinins about Guru Granth Sahib Ji yet Guruship of them binds us as Gurubhai.Also we have same God Akal though our preceptions are differnt.

Das will anyway will keep on troubling yourself for help in common causes for which das is aware that our opinion is same like.
1.Increase in numerical and plotical power of us.
2.stopage of rituals often by illitrate sants or other Karmkandis.
3.Removal of gender,racial and regional bias with ourself.

Akal Bless you.

Das is happy that at this stage you care for the benefit of the Panth.:wah:
 
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Dec 1, 2006
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Saloak Mahala 5 is part of Mundawni. Guru Sahib thanks God for courage to write granth.

Ikaa Bani Ik Gur Ikko Shabad Veechar [Pg. 646]
(one bani of Guru Granth, one Guru which is Guru Granth Sahib Ji's bani, and veechar of shabad of Guru Granth Sahib Ji).

If you can't be true to Guru Granth Sahib Ji, how can you be true to Panth? Weird.
 
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Also, since mundawni is the seal, bani of 9th paatshah was added before mundawni. Same way, if 10th master wrote any bani, it would have been added before mundawni. Guru Ji didn't have lack of pens, paper or writers. These writings were written later by anti-Sikhs to fool Sikhs and break Sikhs away from Guru Granth Sahib Ji.


Guru Granth Sahib Ji has two baraa maahas, dasam granthis wrote two also and added them in krishan avtar for krishan. Guru Ji wrote Sukhamani, dasam granthis wrote sukhamana which was later removed from dasam granth.
Guru Ji wrote vars in prasie of God while dasam granthis wrote vars in praise of durgaa.
 
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Teja Singh Bhasaur rejected bhagat bani and wanted to add dasam granth to Guru Granth Sahib Ji. He is more similar to you than me so please try again. Maybe you are running out of excuses to defend dirt so you trying to defame me by labeling me a Teja Singh Bhasaur agent with whom I don't even share views with him.

Knife is anyway a form of Akal as per Dasham Granth Sahiubh Ji.

So far oposers of Shri Dasham granth Sahib Ji are being exposed.

Only thing being exposed here is dasam granth. Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the cannon which Sikhs have to judge other scriptures. Gurbani says God is Akaal Moorat but you want to make into 4 armed, dancer with bracelets and anklets. Therefore, I don't know how you can keep dasam granth and say you follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Choose either one. Dasam Granth or Guru. Choice is yours.

Very simple and clear
no need to fear.
Make the right choice
Of truth I spead the voice.
 
Apr 11, 2007
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After reading this discussion. I have realised that someone is against dasam granth and someone is for it. Now mr vijaydeep singh, I dont know what you are on about. Your statements make no sense, I can follow your thoughts for a while but then it stops making sense, does the arguement require english lessons. I think thus a person should learn to understand english properly before a person tries to argue and make a point in english! Mr Khalsa Fauj makes more clear and understandable statements. Not saying my english is perfect but at least it makes sense, I hope? Anyway I am on no ones side of this arguement not properly yet, as at the moment this discussion doesnt make sense, it could be the simple fact that mr vijaydeep you refer to yourself as das, just be clearer on your statements. My thoughts though... The Guru Granth Sahib is our holy book, not the dasam granth. No doubt its a holy book, but the filth about sex written in it sounds so graphic it could sound more like a porno? Where would our books end quran maybe? Will there was also a kabir mentioned in our Guru Granth sahib? I dont know. Hopefully you lot will provide the answers!!
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh
Saloak Mahala 5 is part of Mundawni. Guru Sahib thanks God for courage to write granth.
may be then like other verse there could have been some 2 writtan after double II.

Did Guru write the Granth? or did he compiled?

Is not bani by God only ie Khasam ki Bani?

Why some thing been writtan out side the seal?
Kindly explain what conects Mundavini with Salok Mahal Panjavan and why not thanks was given before the sealing?

Ikaa Bani Ik Gur Ikko Shabad Veechar [Pg. 646]
(one bani of Guru Granth, one Guru which is Guru Granth Sahib Ji's bani, and veechar of shabad of Guru Granth Sahib Ji).

ਮਃ
मः ३ ॥
Mehlā 3.
Third Mehl:

ਇਕਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਇਕੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਇਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ
इका बाणी इकु गुरु इको सबदु वीचारि ॥
Ikā baṇī ik gur iko sabaḏ vīcẖār.
There is One Bani; there is One Guru; there is one Shabad to contemplate.

ਸਚਾ ਸਉਦਾ ਹਟੁ ਸਚੁ ਰਤਨੀ ਭਰੇ ਭੰਡਾਰ
सचा सउदा हटु सचु रतनी भरे भंडार ॥
Sacẖā sa­uḏā hat sacẖ raṯnī bẖarė bẖandār.
True is the merchandise, and true is the shop; the warehouses are overflowing with jewels.

ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਅਨਿ ਜੇ ਦੇਵੈ ਦੇਵਣਹਾਰੁ
गुर किरपा ते पाईअनि जे देवै देवणहारु ॥
Gur kirpā ṯė pā­ī­an jė ḏėvai ḏėvaṇhār.
By Guru's Grace, they are obtained, if the Great Giver gives them.

ਸਚਾ ਸਉਦਾ ਲਾਭੁ ਸਦਾ ਖਟਿਆ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ
सचा सउदा लाभु सदा खटिआ नामु अपारु ॥
Sacẖā sa­uḏā lābẖ saḏā kẖati­ā nām apār.
Dealing in this true merchandise, one earns the profit of the incomparable Naam.

ਵਿਖੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਆ ਕਰਮਿ ਪੀਆਵਣਹਾਰੁ
विखु विचि अम्रितु प्रगटिआ करमि पीआवणहारु ॥
vikẖ vicẖ amriṯ pargati­ā karam pī­āvaṇhār.
In the midst of poison, the Ambrosial Nectar is revealed; by His Mercy, one drinks it in.

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਸਲਾਹੀਐ ਧੰਨੁ ਸਵਾਰਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥
नानक सचु सलाहीऐ धंनु सवारणहारु ॥२॥
Nānak sacẖ salāhī­ai ḏẖan savāraṇhār. ||2||
O Nanak, praise the True Lord; blessed is the Creator, the Embellisher. ||2||
Bhai this state could be obtained by the mercy of Akal.

We are told to behold One only as voice,one only as guide and one one as verse.Ie God minfests in all and all is One.

Few more questions.

Was Guru Granth Sahib Ji writtan at that time?

were verse onto Three Gurus and Sikhs been already writtan at that time?

If it seals bani at the time of the Third Master then what about the bani writtan after that time?
If you can't be true to Guru Granth Sahib Ji, how can you be true to Panth? Weird.

Bhai das has no power to be true to Panth nor to Granth as only Akal exists and by mercy of Akal Truth is realised and we are no longer you and me.
 
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Gurfateh
Also, since mundawni is the seal, bani of 9th paatshah was added before mundawni.

Mundavini also means something giving solace to heart.Seal is not the only meaning.

we have first to decide that weather Ninth Master added his Bani or Tenth Master added his fathers Bani soorrry Bani onto his father.

But what was preventing Tenth Master to have another books or two.Say even if it is seal say for your benefit.Then say after sealing one book why can not he by mercy of Akal make more books.


two reasons could be there.
1.As das has seldom seen missionry doing Santokh and Prakash,they do not know that present Swaroop of Guru Granth Sahib Ji is themselve not easy to carry by a single person at head more if he is weak.Then in past to carry book to long disances it was easy to have two books by two people then one book with tow in it by one person.
2.Then why not even a single verse of Tenth Master is added to Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Say had he added then people could have ben fast enough to say that only that one verse is authantic and rest is a hoax.(any way das can prove one verse in Guru Granth Sahib Ji vide Ram but himself feels some what no sure).
Same way, if 10th master wrote any bani, it would have been added before mundawni. Guru Ji didn't have lack of pens, paper or writers. These writings were written later by anti-Sikhs to fool Sikhs and break Sikhs away from Guru Granth Sahib Ji.


Guru Granth Sahib Ji has two baraa maahas, dasam granthis wrote two also and added them in krishan avtar for krishan.

Bhai there are mnay instance where what so ever is attributed to krishan is attributed to Akal in Guru Granth Sahib.

So have look.Das gace it to you before.


ਪੰਨਾ 606, ਸਤਰ 18http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=606&punjabi=t&id=26455
ਕਰਿ ਬਾਲਕ ਰੂਪ ਉਪਾਇਦਾ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਚੰਡੂਰੁ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੁ ਮਾਰਾਹਾ ॥
करि बालक रूप उपाइदा पिआरा चंडूरु कंसु केसु माराहा ॥
Kar bālak rūp upā­iḏā pi­ārā cẖandūr kans kės mārāhā.
The Beloved Himself assumed the form of the child, and killed the demons Chandoor, Kansa and Kaysee.
ਮਃ 4 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]ਪੰਨਾ 874, ਸਤਰ 11http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=874&punjabi=t&id=37329
ਕੇਸੀ ਕੰਸ ਮਥਨੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਆ ॥
केसी कंस मथनु जिनि कीआ ॥
Kėsī kans mathan jin kī­ā.
The Lord, who killed Kaysee and Kans,
ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]ਪੰਨਾ 1390, ਸਤਰ 8http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1390&punjabi=t&id=59212
ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਕੰਸੁ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥੁ ਕੀਓ ॥
दुआपुरि क्रिसन मुरारि कंसु किरतारथु कीओ ॥
Ḏu­āpur krisan murār kans kirṯārath kī­o.
In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.
ਭਟ ਕਲ-ਸਹਾਰ - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

So Kale Afghaniyes have no answer for them.

all is Akal and all praises are for Akal.
Guru Ji wrote Sukhamani, dasam granthis wrote sukhamana which was later removed from dasam granth.
Give proof.And which copy?
Guru Ji wrote vars in prasie of God while dasam granthis wrote vars in praise of durgaa

durga is attribute of Akal as Guru is termed as Parvati Mai as per Japu Ji Sahib.Rember the thing.God is Durga but Durga as demi godess is not God.
 
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Gurfateh
Teja Singh Bhasaur rejected bhagat bani and wanted to add dasam granth to Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

News to das.

Ambala Ji prasied guys from Bhasuar to doubt Dasham Granth Sahib,they also wrote that they replaced Bhagauti with Satnam Ji in thier Ardas.

Either yourself have not read the book by him or you have read the second version,where such parts could be dited as Nirankari's praises are edited.

Das does not think that yourself are lieing dear bro.

He is more similar to you than me so please try again. Maybe you are running out of excuses to defend dirt so you trying to defame me by labeling me a Teja Singh Bhasaur agent with whom I don't even share views with him.

Ego hurting,when ego is there,slander is there.

In Rahiras Sahib we say Sakat Nindak Dust Khin Mai Bidrain.

So if das is slander or has ego for you Akal will remove it.But if yourself have same then also it is in hand of Akal.

So Ambala Sahib proves your sharing views with Babu Teja Singh Ji.He was accused of removing the Bani and a new hoax that he wanted to add anything.Rather he tried to remove bani as Bhatt Bani and Bhagat Bani were failing his Anti Dasham Granth Sahib tirade.Same a few guys from missionarys are doing this.


Only thing being exposed here is dasam granth.

Anti Dasham Granth Kale Afghaniyees are been exposed over here.
Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the cannon which Sikhs have to judge other scriptures.

Ambala Sahib said this as standard.But now there has been advance in violance so word cannon is been used.

Das thinks that such thing is from of Nayya Mat(which actualy Ambala Sahib also told in his book while teling about some verse).

This is 5th Hindu Darshan while ours is the 7th.

This way did Dayananda used to make Vedas as standard and condem other faiths.Same way was used by an ex Arya Samaji.

anyway only a finite thing could be made as a standard.Gurbani is infinite as Guru is Apar.(refreances could be provided about it that God only is Guru and Guru God is infintie,while there is an attempt in some Sikhs to bind God with text say like Wahabis do with holy Bible,Arya Samajis do with Holy Vedas and Protestants do with Holy Bible,such tenedency is the mani reason of conflict in the world).Young men tend to hate God due to such things.
Gurbani says God is Akaal Moorat but you want to make into 4 armed, dancer with bracelets and anklets.

Akal is eternal and Entity stands for moorat.

Say if some times an entity is cool then we can not say that it may never be hot.

and then we talk of infinite God to whom all attributes belong.4arms,dance,bracelts or anklets even outside Bani are attributes of God.

Anyway das gave you referance above about Akal haivng a Chakra in hand and four arms and in Guru Granth Sahib we have Truban of God also.


ang 727ਖੂਬੁ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਗਰੀ ਮੀਠੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਬੋਲ
खूबु तेरी पगरी मीठे तेरे बोल ॥
Kẖūb ṯėrī pagrī mīṯẖė ṯėrė bol.
How handsome is your turban! And how sweet is your speech.

ਦ੍ਵਾਰਿਕਾ ਨਗਰੀ ਕਾਹੇ ਕੇ ਮਗੋਲ ॥੨॥
द्वारिका नगरी काहे के मगोल ॥२॥
Ḏavārikā nagrī kāhė kė magol. ||2||
Why are there Moghals in the holy city of Dwaarikaa? ||2||



ang 727


ਆਪੇ ਹਰਿ ਇਕ ਰੰਗੁ ਹੈ ਆਪੇ ਬਹੁ ਰੰਗੀ
आपे हरि इक रंगु है आपे बहु रंगी ॥
Āpė har ik rang hai āpė baho rangī.
The Lord Himself is absolute; He is The One and Only; but He Himself is also manifested in many forms.

ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਸਾਈ ਗਲ ਚੰਗੀ ॥੨੨॥੨॥
जो तिसु भावै नानका साई गल चंगी ॥२२॥२॥
Jo ṯis bẖāvai nānkā sā­ī gal cẖangī. ||22||2||
Whatever pleases Him, O Nanak, that alone is good. ||22||2||

ang726

Therefore, I don't know how you can keep dasam granth and say you follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Choose either one. Dasam Granth or Guru. Choice is yours.

Das has choosen the interpetaion of Guru Granth Sahib Ji as per Gurmat and not as per 5th hindu philosophy.So das finds no conflict.

Anyway das has no objection for your choosing only one Great Text and not other.But das is sorry that yourself can not force das at all.But Akal can force you to be at the side of Das.Then nothing can stop you bro to respect the writing of the Tenth Master.Which by now you have said does not exists at all.
Views are same like that of
1.Nirankaris
2.Bhasauris
3.Kale Afghaniyes.

Very simple and clear
no need to fear.
Make the right choice
Of truth I spead the voice
Good poem

Bhai till we have I,till then we will be off the Truth.And Guru Granth Sahib Ji are simplers to be understod with devotion then logic which is weak else Dayanada would have been a Sikh.
 
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Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh
After reading this discussion. I have realised that someone is against dasam granth and someone is for it. Now mr vijaydeep singh, I dont know what you are on about. Your statements make no sense, I can follow your thoughts for a while but then it stops making sense, does the arguement require english lessons. I think thus a person should learn to understand english properly before a person tries to argue and make a point in english! Mr Khalsa Fauj makes more clear and understandable statements. Not saying my english is perfect but at least it makes sense, I hope? Anyway I am on no ones side of this arguement not properly yet, as at the moment this discussion doesnt make sense, it could be the simple fact that mr vijaydeep you refer to yourself as das, just be clearer on your statements. My thoughts though... The Guru Granth Sahib is our holy book, not the dasam granth. No doubt its a holy book, but the filth about sex written in it sounds so graphic it could sound more like a porno? Where would our books end quran maybe? Will there was also a kabir mentioned in our Guru Granth sahib? I dont know. Hopefully you lot will provide the answers!!

Bhai Nagra Ji,


Das is sory that his English is not up to the Mark.Das will try to improve.


Sometimes sprituality is something out of 5 senses.

Das finds are contradiction and a bias over here.

I hope? Anyway I am on no ones side of this arguement not properly yet, as
The Guru Granth Sahib is our holy book, not the dasam granth. No doubt its a holy book, but the filth about sex written in it sounds so graphic it could sound more like a porno?

anyway how many porn ore of India have you read?

How mnay porns have secret messages about weakness of the politicaly powerfull people.Perhaps the neaerest could be Prem Margi Sufis,who could have used same way to defeat Hindus.

Our books will end like the Quran of Wahabis if we try to bind God with any book as God makes all.

Kabir has two meanigs in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

One as a devotee and another as Big ie God is Arbi.Haqa Kabir Kareem Tu.
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

Kinldy refer to Ang 1429 of Guru Granth Saihb Ji.

ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਸੰਕਟ ਮਿਟੈ ਦਰਸੁ ਤੁਹਾਰੋ ਹੋਇ ॥੫੭॥੧॥
जिह सिमरत संकट मिटै दरसु तुहारो होइ ॥५७॥१॥
Jih simraṯ sankat mitai ḏaras ṯuhāro ho­ė. ||57||1||
Meditating in remembrance on it, my troubles are taken away; I have received the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. ||57||1||

End of Salok Mahala Nauvan.


||1|| shows the end.


ਤਮ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਚਰਨ ਲਗਿ ਤਰੀਐ ਸਭੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਸਾਰੋ ॥੧॥
तम संसारु चरन लगि तरीऐ सभु नानक ब्रहम पसारो ॥१॥
Ŧam sansār cẖaran lag ṯarī­ai sabẖ Nānak barahm pasāro. ||1||
The dark world-ocean is crossed over, by grasping the Feet of the Lord; O Nanak, it is all the extension of God. ||1||

End of Mundavini Mahala Panjavan with ||1||


ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾਂ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਥੀਵੈ ਹਰਿਆ ॥੧॥
नानक नामु मिलै तां जीवां तनु मनु थीवै हरिआ ॥१॥
Nānak nām milai ṯāʼn jīvāʼn ṯan man thīvai hari­ā. ||1||
O Nanak, if I am blessed with the Naam, I live, and my body and mind blossom forth. ||1||

end of Salok Mahal Nauvan with||1||


Had there been||2|| ||1|| over here then only it could have been proven that Salok Mahala Panjavan is part of Mundavini Mahal Panjavan.

If more help is needed Das is ready.
 
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Apr 4, 2007
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parma ji, i really don't think that kind of response was necessary... vijaydeep singh is a respected contributor to this forum. even if english isn't his first language, i think he's doing a great job of sharing his knowledge. i think the personal attacks and hatred at other faiths are totally unnecessary.

thanks. :)
 

spnadmin

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Parma ji

I am very sorry that you have chosen to make a mockery of my earlier comment. Only forum leaders and you yourself are able to edit your post. Since you chose a course of action -- mockery -- I have deleted the entire comment. I have also taken a page capture of how you mimicked my editorial comments.

Warning: The entire matter will be reviewed in the leaders' section. Please refrain in the future from hate language.
 
Apr 11, 2007
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I will make a suggestion. Personal attacks?? Ok i commented on the user using english!! I was not trying to be rude just speaking the truth. How can i reply to anyones article if the english is not understandable. I might as well be reading latin.. Yes there are many respected members of this forum no problems. Hatred against other faiths.. ? If you mean comments in the past then they were to people contributing nothing to sikhism but to promote there faiths. So lets turn the name of this forum from sikh philosophy to religious philosophy, that would be more fitting. I would understand the action, plus mr Vijadeep in an unprovoked way assumes in his message I read pornograhy!! What hypocracy, if to discuss another faith brings our faith brighter fine, but then again why look at our faith at all. I want to find explaintions on my life from my faith i have chosen not anothers if i am wrong for promoting that then fine. You should not have named the site sikh philosophy forum. No worries!! Take it easy,!! lol p.s. ALL i COULD GAIN FROM THIS DISCUSSION WAS someone promoting parts of pornography from the dasam granth as our faith, i dont know maybe I did pick the wrong religion?? Which religion promotes pornography???
Nothing i want to discuss further. How does the sinful turn into a saint and a saint into a sinner its a very thin line. PROMOTE IT!! SEE IT!! BECOME IT!! = Religion. Maybe I have mis interpreted some comments not my fault.. I would understand if I could, nothing horrible against anyone just the truth. (LATIN). I would only regret something if I had made the first personal attack as stated above. Whoever decides to ban me I havent done nothing wrong attack a sikh and one must defend themselves, maybe a bit harsh my attack but, no one measures a slap when they smack someone! Sorry if its caused a lot of fuss!! Do what you have to do!! I dont know were I did mimick anyone but if i did THEN SO WHAT!!! A LIONS HEART IS THE HEART OF A TRUE SINGH!! :mad:1:}--}:2:}--}:3:}--}:4:}--}:5 K
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

Bhai Parma Nagara Ji,


Das is and will never be prmoting any poronogrphy.rather he has an urge to share something with yourself.

Chartitopakhyans are more a sort of criptography.Message online till date are also been used to to be send via poronography online.

Oldest profession on earth is of prostitutes and second one is of spies.Das is one of the spy so find Charitropakhan overlapping his proffesional sylabi.

Even if missionaries are ablbe to make a Khalistan by thier own.They in thier intelligence unit will have to encourage or perform or take note of many things which are foound obectioanble in Charitro Pakhayan.


One input for Mundavini.


ਮੁੰਦਾਵਣੀ ਮਹਲਾ
मुंदावणी महला ५ ॥
Munḏāvaṇī mehlā 5.
Mundaavanee, Fifth Mehl:

ਥਾਲ ਵਿਚਿ ਤਿੰਨਿ ਵਸਤੂ ਪਈਓ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੋ
थाल विचि तिंनि वसतू पईओ सतु संतोखु वीचारो ॥
Thāl vicẖ ṯinn vasṯū pa­ī­o saṯ sanṯokẖ vīcẖāro.
Upon this Plate, three things have been placed: Truth, Contentment and Contemplation.

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕਾ ਪਇਓ ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਸਭਸੁ ਅਧਾਰੋ
अम्रित नामु ठाकुर का पइओ जिस का सभसु अधारो ॥
Amriṯ nām ṯẖākur kā pa­i­o jis kā sabẖas aḏẖāro.
The Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of our Lord and Master, has been placed upon it as well; it is the Support of all.

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਖਾਵੈ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਭੁੰਚੈ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਹੋਇ ਉਧਾਰੋ
जे को खावै जे को भुंचै तिस का होइ उधारो ॥
Jė ko kẖāvai jė ko bẖuncẖai ṯis kā ho­ė uḏẖāro.
One who eats it and enjoys it shall be saved.

ਏਹ ਵਸਤੁ ਤਜੀ ਨਹ ਜਾਈ ਨਿਤ ਨਿਤ ਰਖੁ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰੋ
एह वसतु तजी नह जाई नित नित रखु उरि धारो ॥
Ėh vasaṯ ṯajī nah jā­ī niṯ niṯ rakẖ ur ḏẖāro.
This thing can never be forsaken; keep this always and forever in your mind.

ਤਮ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਚਰਨ ਲਗਿ ਤਰੀਐ ਸਭੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਸਾਰੋ ॥੧॥
तम संसारु चरन लगि तरीऐ सभु नानक ब्रहम पसारो ॥१॥
Ŧam sansār cẖaran lag ṯarī­ai sabẖ Nānak barahm pasāro. ||1||



The dark world-ocean is crossed over, by grasping the Feet of the Lord; O Nanak, it is all the extension of God. ||1||
(Ang 1429

Kindly see the point that there is tippi over Mundvini making it a seal.

while we see in Ang 645.

ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ
सलोकु मः ३ ॥
Salok mehlā 3.
Shalok, Third Mehl:

ਥਾਲੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਤੈ ਵਸਤੂ ਪਈਓ ਹਰਿ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੁ
थालै विचि तै वसतू पईओ हरि भोजनु अम्रितु सारु ॥
Thālai vicẖ ṯai vasṯū pa­ī­o har bẖojan amriṯ sār.
Upon the plate, three things have been placed; this is the sublime, ambrosial food of the Lord.

ਜਿਤੁ ਖਾਧੈ ਮਨੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤੀਐ ਪਾਈਐ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰੁ
जितु खाधै मनु त्रिपतीऐ पाईऐ मोख दुआरु ॥
Jiṯ kẖāḏẖai man ṯaripaṯ­ī­ai pā­ī­ai mokẖ ḏu­ār.
Eating this, the mind is satisfied, and the Door of Salvation is found.

ਇਹੁ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਅਲਭੁ ਹੈ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਲਭੈ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ
इहु भोजनु अलभु है संतहु लभै गुर वीचारि ॥
Ih bẖojan alabẖ hai sanṯahu labẖai gur vīcẖār.
It is so difficult to obtain this food, O Saints; it is obtained only by contemplating the Guru.

ਏਹ ਮੁਦਾਵਣੀ ਕਿਉ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਕਢੀਐ ਸਦਾ ਰਖੀਐ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰਿ
एह मुदावणी किउ विचहु कढीऐ सदा रखीऐ उरि धारि ॥
Ėh muḏāvaṇī ki­o vicẖahu kadẖī­ai saḏā rakẖī­ai ur ḏẖār.
Why should we cast this riddle out of our minds? We should keep it ever enshrined in our hearts.

ਏਹ ਮੁਦਾਵਣੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਪਾਈ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾ ਲਧੀ ਭਾਲਿ
एह मुदावणी सतिगुरू पाई गुरसिखा लधी भालि ॥
Ėh muḏāvaṇī saṯgurū pā­ī gursikẖā laḏẖī bẖāl.
The True Guru has posed this riddle. The Guru's Sikhs have found its solution.

ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਸੁ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਸੁ ਬੁਝਸੀ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਘਾਲਿ ॥੧॥
नानक जिसु बुझाए सु बुझसी हरि पाइआ गुरमुखि घालि ॥१॥
Nānak jis bujẖā­ė so bujẖsī har pā­i­ā gurmukẖ gẖāl. ||1||
O Nanak, he alone understands this, whom the Lord inspires to understand. The Gurmukhs work hard, and find the Lord. ||1||


A similar work with Mudavini being writtan which mean a riddle due to lack of Tippi inspite of the fact that in both we have plate and three things.


But does tippi makes are relavence let us see.
see ang

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ਅਨੰਦੁ
रामकली महला ३ अनंदु
Rāmkalī mehlā 3 ananḏ
Raamkalee, Third Mehl, Anand ~ The Song Of Bliss:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik­oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਅਨੰਦੁ ਭਇਆ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਏ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਮੈ ਪਾਇਆ
अनंदु भइआ मेरी माए सतिगुरू मै पाइआ ॥
Anand bẖa­i­ā mėrī mā­ė saṯgurū mai pā­i­ā.
I am in ecstasy, O my mother, for I have found my True Guru.


then see over here.
ਪੰਨਾ 922, ਸਤਰ 17
ਅਨਦੁ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਵਡਭਾਗੀਹੋ ਸਗਲ ਮਨੋਰਥ ਪੂਰੇ ॥
अनदु सुणहु वडभागीहो सगल मनोरथ पूरे ॥
Anaḏ suṇhu vadbẖāgīho sagal manorath pūrė.
Listen to the song of bliss, O most fortunate ones; all your longings shall be fulfilled.
ਮਃ 3 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


Das has a question that if ਅਨੰਦੁ=ਅਨਦੁ then why is not ਮੁਦਾਵਣੀ= ਮੁੰਦਾਵਣੀ ???

So why do we make falsehood of the seal?
 
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SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-0] ਮੋਹਰ ਲਾ ਕੇ ਬੰਦ ਕੀਤੀ, ਬੁਝਾਰਤ, ਅੜਾਉਣੀ, ਭੇਤ ਵਾਲੀ ਗਲ [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE] [SIZE=-0] ਮੁਦ੍ਰਣ (ਮੁਹਰਛਾਪ ਲਾਉਣ) ਦੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਯਾ. ਮੁੰਦਣਾ. ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਿੱਚ ਮੁੰਦਾਵਣੀ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੋ ਥਾਂਈਂ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ. ਭਾਰਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਰੀਤਿ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਮਹਾਰਾਜਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਖਾਨ ਪਾਨ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਬੰਧ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਸਰਦਾਰ, ਆਪਣੇ ਸਾਮ੍ਹਣੇ ਭੋਜਨ ਤਿਆਰ ਕਰਵਾਕੇ ਦੇਗਚੇ ਆਦਿ ਬਰਤਨਾਂ ਪੁਰ ਮੁਹਰ ਲਾਦਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਤਾਕਿ ਕੋਈ ਅਸ਼ੁਭਚਿੰਤਕ ਜ਼ਹਿਰ ਆਦਿ ਭੋਜਨ ਵਿੱਚ ਨਾ ਮਿਲਾ ਸਕੇ. ਫੇਰ ਜਦ ਥਾਲ ਪਰੋਸਦਾ ਹੈ ਤਦ ਕੀ ਥਾਲ ਪੁਰ ਸਰਪਸ਼ ਦੇਕੇ ਮੁਹਰ ਲਾ ਦਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਅਰ ਉਹ ਮੁਹਰ ਜਿੰਮੇਵਾਰ ਸਰਦਾਰ ਦੇ ਰੂਬਰੂ ਮਹਾਰਾਜਾ ਦੇ ਸੰਮੁਖ ਖੋਲ੍ਹੀ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ. ਇਸ ਉੱਪਰਲੇ ਭਾਵ ਨੂੰ ਲੈਕੇ ਇਹ ਵਾਕ ਹੈ- "ਏਹ ਮੁਦਾਵਣੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਪਾਈ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਲਧੀ ਭਾਲਿ". (ਮਃ ੩. ਵਾਰ ਸੋਰ) ਭਾਵ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਗੁਰਉਪਦੇਸ਼ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਦੇ ਮਨ ਦ੍ਰਿੜ੍ਹ ਕਰਾਕੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਨੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਮਰਯਾਦਾ ਦੀ ਮੁਹਰਛਾਪ ਲਾ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਹੈ, ਤਾਕਿ ਨਿਯਮਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਗੜਬੜ ਨਾ ਹੋਵੇ. ਦੂਜਾ "ਮੁੰਦਾਵਣੀ ਮਃ ੫" ਸਰਲੇਖ ਹੇਠ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇ ਭੋਗ ਪੁਰ ਪਾਠ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਭਾਵ ਅੰਤਿਮ ਮੁਹਰਛਾਪ ਹੈ. ਸਮਾਪਤੀ ਪੁਰ ਮੁਦ੍ਰਣ ਕਰਕੇ ਇਹ ਉਪਦੇਸ਼ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇੱਥੇ ਧਰਮਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੇ ਪਾਠ ਦਾ ਭੋਗ ਹੈ। (2) ਬੁਝਾਰਤ. ਅਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਕੂਟ. [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com[/SIZE]
 
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