Ardaas Changed

[Randip Singh]

There are manuscripts from 1697b and 1698. Read all posts first before asking a question.

Which manuscripts? Who have they been verified by?

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh..


I was reading this whole discussion along with listening Gurbani live from Gurdwara Dukh Niwaran Sahib, Ludhiana...(here is the link)..::: Website of Gurdwara Dukh Niwaran Sahib, Ludhiana, Panjab, India ::: ..Shabad started was...

"Aeysa Jag Dekhya Juaari....Sab Sukh Maangey Naam Bisari.........."

I request you all to be polite....but I wonder..is there any justified reason for changing ardaas ? we always remember our shaheeds through ardaas... and they just removed 40 Mukteeyaan...whom Guru Ji loved more than Sahibjaadey.......

i am not a person to say...but just curios about this...

may be some day they will say that Sahibjadey should be first after Guru Ji..then Panj Pyareey...... one has to know the realty...first ....there as no war...so without reason..first Bhai Daya Singh stood...but after that it was sure that Guru Ji is going to take head....even then.. Bhai Dharam Singh Ji..Bhai Himmat Singh Ji...Bhai Mohkam Singh Ji, and Bhai Sahib Singh Ji came forward...

If somebody got killed in war its really appreciable and respectful...but if somebody asks for life, person will ask what for..

Just thought of this...

sorry I went out of topic.......

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh......

 

[Inder singh]

which manuscripts? Who have they been verified by?

please refrain from personal comments

 

[Inder singh]

Stick to the Topic and Answer the Questions.

PLEASE REFRAIN FROM PERSONAL COMMENTS

 

[Inder singh]

Which manuscripts? Who have they been verified by?

Bring your knowledge upto date before asking such silly questions.The year of compilation of manuscripts are given
1697 and 1698. You should know that Guru gobind singh was there during that time.

Now do not censor this to cover your lack of schoalrship.

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Dohey hath jod...sangat aage benti hai ki..be polite...

Ek vaari Guru Nanak Ji di nimrata te Guru Amardas Ji di patience dil ch rakh ke discuss karo...

Waheguru bhali Kare...

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh...........

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Inder Singh ji writes:

I wrote that do not indulge in selective censoring.

No one is doing any selective censoring. This is one more kind of grumbling to impose one's own thought process rather than Sikhi's.

If kala afghana writes on kissa of heer ranjha( A punjabi folk lore) his personal conduct will not come in picture.

The above statement does not make any sense. Inder Singh ji needs to be taught what life of Miri- Piri means. It involves both Temporal and Spiritual. What does personal conduct mean? Is he a bigamist like the Jathedar of Akaal Takhat at Patna Sahib who admittedly has 2 wives. Is that personal conduct ok with Inder Singh ji?

Since he chose to write negatively about Sikh scriptures,ethos and history it is natural that his conduct will come in picture for review.

What negtative things did he write about Sikh scriptures. Repeating and yelling at the top of one's voice can not make things true. Inder Singh should read what Gyani Jarnail Singh wrote in one of his posts. I know he likes to tell people and told Randip to gain some knowledge. How about gaining knowledge for the self so, so much hatred is not spewed around? I can only see hatred coming out rather than some Gurmat Vichaar.

Gurbani says

Avr aupdysY Awip n krY ]
avar oupadhaesai aap n karai ||
One who does not practice what he preaches to others,

Finally Inder Singh has admitted his shortcomings in the above Gurbani quote. Now he needs to practice that and lead the way so we can learn from him.

Hope to learn a lot from Inder Singh ji.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Just to remind -- the discussion of Kala Afghana and his personal conduct and his views on Gurmat/Gurubani have been discussed on a different thread. When threads go off topic, then it is time for a clean-up. Second warning.

Just to reflect on the words of AdaKhalsa ji - This is the anniversary of SPN -- 5 years - and to be polite for just one or two days would not cost anyone very much in social capital. Sat Nam Antonia

 

[spnadmin]

Ada Kalsa ji

Moseration note: Develop your thinking in post 162. There is a connection -- it may have to do with loyalty to a person and to the ideal that the person stands for. Devotion to a human Guru, Gobind Singh ji, and because of the ideals he represented. It takes us back to the subject of Ardaas and what change of Ardaas would signify. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Ada Kalsa ji

Moseration note: Develop your thinking in post 162. There is a connection -- it may have to do with loyalty to a person and to the ideal that the person stands for. Devotion to a human Guru, Gobind Singh ji, and because of the ideals he represented. It takes us back to the subject of Ardaas and what change of Ardaas would signify. Thanks for your thoughts.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh...

I will try my best ji...........

Rabb Raakha...........

 

[spnadmin]

Two posts have been moved to a new thread at this link: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/25205-kala-afghana-discussion-redux.html#post102010

Please remember to keep comments relevant to the thread topic. Thank you, aad0002

 

[Randip Singh]

Bring your knowledge upto date before asking such silly questions.The year of compilation of manuscripts are given
1697 and 1698. You should know that Guru gobind singh was there during that time.

Now do not censor this to cover your lack of schoalrship.

Please cite some academic research that has verified this. There are hundreds of manuscripts supposedly penned by the Guru's. I want proper verifiable research. ISBN numbers etc.

Also do not make personal remarks. One more and you will get a warning.

 

[Inder singh]

Please cite some academic research that has verified this. There are hundreds of manuscripts supposedly penned by the Guru's. I want proper verifiable research. ISBN numbers etc.

You still are not getting it. Guru gobind singh was there in person when these two manuscripts were compiled. His hand writing and signature are there. What else you want?

You seem to raise questions without reading the posts in the thread.The following was posted by me in the same thread


Sri Dasam Granth Sahib of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib
Glimpse of the oldest available beerh of Sri Dasam Granth from 1698 AD




Contents from the rare handwritten beerh of Sri Dasam Granth compiled in 1755 Bikrami (1698 A.D.), one year before the formation of Khalsa. The date when this historic beerh was compiled is given in the introductory paragraph. This beerh is preserved at Takhat Sri Patna Sahib. It is noteworthy that Guru Gobind Singh Sahib’s bani "Zafarnamah" which was written in 1704 A.D., six years after this beerh was compiled, does not feature in this beerh. Also noteworthy is the name of the granth that appears on the top, “Patshah Dasven Ju Ka Granth” (The Granth of the Tenth Master).

The year mentioned on this handwritten beerh is also significant because Bhai Kesar Singh Chibber too in Bansavalinama records that Guru Gobind Singh Sahib had himself compiled the Granth in 1755 Bikrami (1698 A.D.), and this Chhota Granth[1] was very dear to him. Evidently that this is one of the oldest beerhs which Guru Sahib himself compiled before the formation of the Khalsa. Later compilations of the complete banees of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib is attributed to Bhai Mani Singh.

ਛੋਟਾ ਗਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਜਨਮੇ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਕੇ ਧਾਮ।
ਸੰਮਤ ਸਤਾਰਾਂ ਸੈ ਪਚਵੰਜਾ, ਬਹੁਤ ਖਿਡਾਵੇ ਲਿਖਾਰੇ ਨਾਮ।
ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੂੰ ਸੀ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਹਥੀਂ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਖਿਡਾਇਆ। ​

ਸਿਖਾਂ ਕੀਤੀ ਅਰਦਾਸ, 'ਜੀ ਅਗਲੇ (ਭਾਵ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ) ਨਾਲਿ ਚਾਹੀਏ ਰਲਾਇਆ'।
ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ, 'ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਹੈ ਉਹ, ਏਹ ਅਸਾਡੀ ਖੇਡ ਹੈ।'
ਨਾਲਿ ਨ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ਆਹਾ ਪਿਆਰਾ, ਕਉਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਭੇਦ।​

ਸੋ ਦੋਨੋ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰ ਜਾਨੋ।​

ਵਡਾ ਹੈ ਟਿਕਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਟਕੇ ਪੋਥੀਆਂ ਪੁਤਰ ਪੋਤਰੇ ਕਿਰ ਪਛਾਨੋ​

(ਬੰਸਾਵਲੀਨਾਮਾ, ਭਾਈ ਕੇਸਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਛਿੱਬਰ) [1] Kesar Singh Chibber calls the granth as Chotta Granth (small granth) in relation to the statu

 

[Inder singh]

Dr tirlochan singh did a lot of research in manuscripts and writings in dasam granth. given below is a good article by him.


The History and Compilation of the Dasm Granth (Part 1) - Dr. Trilochan Singh

The History and Compilation of the Dasm Granth (Part 1) - Dr. Trilochan Singh

Patshahi10.Org is pleased to present this important piece of work on the history of Sri Dasam Granth by Dr. Trilochan Singh, an authoritative exponent of Sikh history, theology, philosophy and culture. This work, in four parts, was published in The Sikh Review in 1955. And up till now this remains a benchmark work on the history and compilation of Sri Dasam Granth - Admin​

The History and Compilation of the Dasm Granth (Part 1)​

Dr. Trilochan Singh​

Guru Gobind Singh's mind was a towering Himalaya of light from whose teeming caverns there flowed a mighty river of songs in whose placid depths he set the reflected image of all the tragedy and bliss of life.
His imagination was a seraph, which sounded all depths and measured all heights. It touched the intangible, it saw the invisible, it heard the inaudible and it gave body and shape to the inconceivable. It gathered gems from all mines, gold from all sands, pearls from all seas and songs from every battle of dharma.
Guru Gobind Singh bequeathed to mankind a literary, historical and philosophic estate which time cannot destroy. He breathed into the nostrils of the heavenly Muse the breath of a new immortality. He sang of his God and his soul. He sang of creation and the rise and fall of civilization. He sang of the wars of dharma, of the heroes of the glorious past of India and of the figurative gods and goddesses of mythology. He sang of the lovers and martyrs of truth.
The fever of the age, the misery of the people, the degradation of the country and its culture, the mute appeals of the oppressed became the problems of his life which he solved with the pen, the sword, the mind and his godlike spirit.
Guru Gobind Singh's mind was a resistless flood which deluged everything that came into contact with it with glory, strength and spiritual glow. He desired that his Sikhs should develop all sides of their personality. He himself developed on all sides the exhuberance of his powers without losing himself in their multiplicity.
MISUNDERSTOOD AND MISINTERPRETTED GENIUS
It is, however, to be regretted that writers on Guru Gobind Singh have been led away by their just admiration for one aspect of his life to an unjust and even ignorant depreciation of various other equally important aspects of his life.

It becomes impossible for some devout Sikhs to understand that the Guru who was the creator of the Khalsa and who in many fundamental ways parted radically from Hinduism could write such secular writings as life stories of the avtars of Brahma, Vishnu and Siva such as his Triya Charitar and Chandi Charitar. It becomes equally difficult for non-Sikh writers to understand that a Guru who has written glowing accounts of Chandi, Lord Krishna, Buddha and the great ascetics Dattatreya and Paras Nath was not a worshipper or a devotee of any of these. While he had a profound respect for these personalities who were gifted with special, divine qualities, he condemned the worship of these heroes and sages of our country as deities and godheads.
There is another class of writers who do not understand Guru Gobind Singh's use of the sword of dharma and the great social and spiritual significance he attached to it. His autobiography explains the circumstances under which he had to use the sword in actual battles. When hordes of aggressors, generally numbering more than ten times his men, attacked his home and hearth without rhyme or reason, he had no other way out but to resort to the sword Extremist non-violence at such juncture had kept India in slavery century after century.[1]
Another negative argument, though without much grounds, is that since Guru Gobind Singh was always preoccupied with battles and conflicts with the rulers, how was it that he had so much time to write such monumental works. Such people should know that out of five of a Sikh's morning prayers three compositions are by Guru Gobind Singh. Such is the importance he attached to his poetic works.

Guru Gobind Singh was far more conscious of being a poet than being a warrior, or a prophet. The title of the prayer composed by him reads: Kabio ach Benti Chaupai, which means, The Prayer of the Poet in Chaupai Metre. In his autobiography, Apni Katha, the chapter describing his birth in the first person is entitled Ath Kabi Janam Kathnan.

No ruler in Indian history had as many as 50 poets and innumerable additional writers whose patronage was coveted by emperors like Aurangzeb. If Guru Gobind Singh found time to examine the works of 52 poets he could easily find time to write profusely. He rewarded two poets with 60,000 mohars each for translating some cantos of the Mahabharata into Hindi and Panjabi. He never gave even half this much reward to any of his warriors.

When the war clouds loomed heavily over Anandpur he asked those poets who could not handle the sword to leave. On their departure they were profusely garlanded, taken in procession on elephants, given rich gifts and presents. Above all they were given a salute of guns. According to a poet, the neighbouring rajas on hearing the salute were terror stricken and thought that Guru Gobind Singh was preparing an attack with unprecedented might.

While education was compulsory, military training was optional. Yet in that atmosphere the inspiration to become a poet was so great that labourers working in the stables took part in poetry contests. The military training was entrusted to some of the greatest military geniuses of the time. Among them were Guru Gobind Singh's maternal uncle Kirpal Chand, who was also the Guru's teacher from childhood, and five sons of Bibi Viro (daughter of Guru Har Gobind) named Sango Shah, Jit Mal, Gulab Chand, Ganga Ram and Mahri Chand. Each of these warriors was given a command of 500 to 800 soldiers. Sango Shah Avas the Commander-in-Chief in the battle of Bhangani; when he fell a martyr on the twelfth day of fighting, Guru Gobind Singh took the command in his own hands. The younger generation took arms so very eagerly that the poet Hir said, "A child siugh learns the use of the sword long before he learns to tie his turban."

While all other misunderstandings will become clear in their proper places, one misunderstanding created by the self-styled puritans called the bhasurias must be cleared here. They tried to prove that most of the Dasm Granth was written by the poets Ram and Shyam, names which occur in one or two compositions in the Dasm Granth. There is more than sufficient internal and external evidence in every composition to show that all the writings in the Dasm Granth were the works of Guru Gobind Singh. As we discuss each composition we will explain the purpose of each work and also give internal proofs of its authenticity.
The names Ram and Shyam are used in some places as pen names. Actually speaking, they were not pen names but poetic translations of Guruji's names. Guruji's name Gobind is an attributive name of God; so also are Ram and Shyam. In Sikh theology the three words govind, ram and syam mean the same thing as the following quotations from the Guru Granth prove:

Siyam sundar taj nind kiun ai (Guru Arjan: Suhi)

Siyam sundar taj an jo cahit jion, kusti tan jok (Surdas: Sarang)

govind govind govind har gurni nidhan

govind govind govind jap mukh ujla pardhan (Guru Bam Das: Var Kanra)
ram ram kirtan gae

ram ram ram sada sahae (Guru Arjan: Rag Gond)
In all the above quotations from the Guru Granth the words ram, syam and govind mean the same thing and so also do they in the Dasm Granth where they stand for Guru Gobind Singh. That is why two or sometime all three of these names occur in the same composition.[2]
This practice of writing a synonym for the proper noun in the Dasm Granth applies not only to his own name but to many other names also. In the Dasm Granth, Guru Gobind Singh writes Netra Trung for Naina Devi, Satdrav for Satluj, Dasmpur for Anandpur, Shah Sangram for Sango Shah, and Madra-desh for the Punjab.

Even in our own times Bhai Sahib Vir Singh's maternal uncle Pandit Hazara Singh wrote his name Hazoor Hari while his father Dr. Charan Singh wrote his name Charan Hari. Sardar Dharma Anant Singh, in his book Plato and the True Enlightener of Soul, writes the name of Sant Attar Singh as Mrigindus Atrus.

So Ram, Shyam and Govind are synonymous names of Guru Gobind Singh.

Almost all these works were written by Guru Gobind Singh between the ages of 16 and 35. In the Dasm Granth purely religious and philosophic compositions have 878 verses. But the introductions and the epilogues to all the secular verses are important religious compositions and number about 500. So the philosophic verses number nearly 1,378.
Akal Ustat and Gyan Prabodh were more than twice what we find in the Dasm Granth. Had they survived, the religious poems in the Dasm Granth would have been twice the number we have now. It is not out of place to conclude that Guru Gobind Singh's contribution to religious literature far exceeds any other Guru's contribution to the Guru Granth. Contributions by the other Gurus and by Kabir to the Guru Granth are: Guru Nanak, 974 verses; Guru Angad, 62; Guru Amar Das, 907; Guru Ram Das, 697; Guru Arjan, 2,218; Guru Tegh Bahadur, 116; and Kabir, 541 verses.
All the works were compiled by Guru Gobind Singh, but unfortunately almost all were lost in the sack of Anandpur and the battle of Chamkaur in 1704. The last four years of the Guru's life were spent in compiling the final version of Guru Granth Sahib and in making journeys east and south. A few months before his death the Guru sent his wife and Bhai Mani Singh to take care of the Sikhs in Delhi and Punjab. The divine mother was to stay at Delhi and Bhai Mani Singh was to tour Punjab.
After the passing away of Guru Gobind Singh the Punjab was in a very unsettled condition. Around 1714 Mata Sundri asked Bhai Mani Singh to take the religious leadership of the Sikh Panth in his own hands with Amritsar as his headquarters. He was also instructed to compile the works of Guru Gobind Singh into a collected volume. The following letter from Bhai Mani Singh written in April 1714 shows the appalling conditions of the time and the missionary zeal of the great saint-scholar. In the light of this letter the statement of the eminent historian Gyani Gyan Singh that Bhai Mani Singh was living with barely five or six Sikhs at Amritsar is not unbelievable. Bhai Mani Singh managed to live during these aweful times because of his profound influence on both the Muslims and Hindus;

(Translation of the letter; the photostat of the original given opposite page 57.)
The One prevaileth everywhere. May the Immortal be our saviour. Most revered divine mother, Mani Singh makes obeisance at thy feet. News further is that on coming here my body has been suffering from acute wind-ailment and my health has been deteriorating. I meditated on the songs of healing thrice. But there has been no slackness in the service of the Golden Temple. The Khalsa has lost its hold in the Punjab and the Sikhs are retreating to the forests and mountains. The whole of the Punjab is under the sway of the despots. Even in the villages the life of the young men and women is not safe. They are hunted and killed mercilessly. The enemies of the Guru have joined hands with them. The handaliyas (followers of an impostor guru) are spying on the Sikhs and are betraying them to the enemies.Almost everyone has left Amritsar. The clerks and accountants have fled. So far the Almighty has protected me. 1 cannot say what may happen tomorrow. The Master's words will come to pass. Binod Singh's grandson has passed away. Among the books I sent there is a volume of 303 Triya Charitar Upakhyan written by the master. Please give that volume to Sihan Singh who lives in the interior of the city. So far I have not been able to trace Shastra Nam Mala Puran. I have found the first part of Krishna Avtar but not the second part. If I get it I will send it. There is a rumour here that Banda has made good his escape. May the Lord protect him. Guru Angad's family at Khadur has sent five tolas of old for your adopted son's bride.[3] Please recover seventeen rupees from Jhanda Singh. I gave him five rupees to meet the expenses of the journey. He has some bad habits and he will squander the money. The accountants have not as yet given me the accounts, otherwise I would have sent a hundi from the big city (Lahore). If my health improves I shall come some time in October or November.
Baisakh 22.
Sd/ Mani Singh
Please reply in the bamboo stick.

The Romanized copy of Bhai Mani Singh's letter to Mata Sundri ji​

​

ih onkar akal sahae
puj mata ji de carnan par mani singh ki dandaut bandna. Bahoro samacar vacna ke idhar aon par sada sarir vayu ka adhik vikari hoe gaea hai-suast nahi hoea, tap ki kala do bar suni. par mandar ki seva men koi alak nahi. des vic khalse da bal chut gaea hai. sihgh parbatan babanan vic jae base hain. malechon ki des men dohi hai. basti men balak juva istri salamat nahi. much much kar marde hain. guru darohi bi unan de sang mil gae hain. handalie mil kar mukbari karde hain. sabi cak chod gae hain. mutsadi bhag gae hain. sade par abi to akal ki racha hai. kal ki khabar nahi. sahiban de hukam atal hain. binod singh de putrele da hukam sat hoe gaea hai. pothian jo jhanda singh hath bheji thi unan vic sahiban de 303 caritar upkhiyan di pothi jo hai so sihan sihgh nun mahal vic dena ji. Nam mala ki pothi di khabar abi mili nahi. karisnavtar purbaradh to mila utraradh nahi. je mila asi bhej devange. des vic goga hai ke banda bandhan mukat hoe bhag gaea hai. sahib bahudi karan ge. tola par sona sahibjade ki gharni ke abhukhan lai guru kiaa khandur se bheja hai 17 rajatpan bi jhanda singh se bhar panen. 5 rajatpan ise tosa dia is nun badraka bi hai. is se uth janven ge. mutsadion ne hisab nahi dia jo dende tan bade sahir se hundi kardi bhejde. asade sarir di rachia rahi tan kuar de mahine avange.
mili vaisakh 22.
daskhat manisingh
guru cak bunga.
juab pori main
The letter reveals the following facts:

1. Such secular works as Krishna Avtar, Triya Charitar and Shastar Nam Mala Puran were written by Guru Gobind Singh and not by any other poet.
2. The Sikh historians are mistaken when they believe that Bhai Mani Singh took charge of the Golden Temple in 1722. This letter, written five months after Baba Banda's arrest and two months before his execution, shows that Bhai Mani Singh was there much earlier, probably in 1713 or 1714.
3. Finding the Akal Ustat incomplete, Mr. Macauliffe said that "there is an obvious defect in the arrangement of the composition." There is, as a matter of fact, no defect. Mr. Macauliffe did not know the works were collected after strenuous efforts and more than what is there was not available until then.

Bhai Mani Singh completed the compilation in 1734, four years before he himself became a victim of the Moghul tyranny and his body was cut joint by joint.
Some of the prominent Sikhs such as Baba Binod Singh (mentioned in the letter and probably staying at that time with Bhai Mani Singh), Baba Gurbakhsh Singh and Sukha Singh prepared their own copies from the compiled copy. I have not seen the copies prepared by Baba Gurbakhsh Singh and Bhai Mani Singh but if a search is made I think they can still be found.
I have seen the copy prepared by Baba Binod Singh which contains 28 pages written in Guru Gobind Singh's own hand. Binod Singh's descendents presented this copy of the Dasm Granth to Maharaja Ranjit Singh's durbar and they received Rs. 125/- per month as a gift for it. It then came to the Patiala durbar and until 1947 the descendents of Baba Binod Singh were getting Rs. 25/- per month.
Baba Binod Singh was a direct descendent of Baba Dasu, son of Guru Angad. Baba Binod Singh was also one of the five apostles under whose guidance Banda Bahadur was supposed to work at the instructions of Guru Gobind Singh. So a copy prepared by Baba Binod Singh is an authentic and direct copy of the originally compiled version by Bhai Mani Singh. This Dasm Granth is at present in the Moti Bagh Palace, Patiala, and I had an opportunity to study it in detail some time ago.
Six years after the compilation of he book and two years after the death of Bhai Mani Singh a dispute arose among the scholars as to whether such philosophic writings as the Jap and Akal Ustat should remain side by side with secular writings or whether they should be kept in separate volumes. Such scholars maintained that it was not proper to discuss writings like Triya Charitar in the gurdvaras. No one, of course, doubted that the works were those of Guru Gobind Singh. The matter was decided in a strange way [4]
Bhai Mehtab Singh and Bhai Sukha Singh who were there said that if they succeeded in killing Massa Ranghar who was occupying Amritsar and using the Golden Temple as a pleasure house the Dasm Granth should remain intact. If, however, they died in the attempt, the books of the Dasm Granth should be separated. .Fortune most strangely favoured keeping the Dasm Granth in one volume.
According to Macauliffe the name of Dasm Granth was given to the collection much later. This is not correct. The title of Binod Singh's collections and of other older recensions is Dasm Patshah ka Granth, which means the same thing as Dasm Granth, Work of the Tenth Guru.
In 1896 leaders of the Singh Sabha movement found that copies of the Dasm Granth began to differ in the spelling of words. As the copyists knew only Panjabi and not Hindi and Persian they made many mistakes in writing these languages. So a committee of scholars was appointed which prepared an edition to be printed for the first time. They collected some 32 old texts of the Dasm Granth, but they unfortunately left the proof reading to the printers Messrs, Gulab Singh & Sons who in printing have made countless errors which even distort the meaning of the original. Either the scholars who prepared this or the publishers have made two grievous errors:

1. They have written on the title page "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Dasm Patshahi" which seems to be a distortion of Dasm Patshahi ka Granth which is found on most of the old recensions. This Granth was not installed as a guru so it is wrong to call it Guru Granth.
2. The first verse of the 33 swayas: jagat jot japai nis basar, has been omitted.

What is to be noted is that all the eminent scholars of the Singh Sabha movement accepted the whole of the Dasm Granth as the work of Guru Gobind Singh.
In 1915 there arose an assumedly puritan school of thought at Bhasaur under Babu Teja Singh, a retired overseer, a good organizer but with a hopelessly shallow intellect. He and a few of his hired gyanis not only started a campaign against Dasm Granth but even compiled a Guru Granth of their own excluding the works of Kabir and other bhagtas. He even changed the mass prayer of the Sikhs. As a reformist, in the beginning he gathered some support but when he stooped to flagrant abuse of history and facts he was condemned by a proclamation from the Akal Takht and his activities were declared Singh's poets. The genius of one most un-Sikh-like.
This school has died an inevitable visible death and no Sikh scholar of importance believes that any part of Dasm Granth was written by Guru Gobind Singh's poets. The genius of one mind, the art style of one poet is visible in the whole of Dasm Granth.
That genius and style is of Guru Gobind Singh and no other.
[1]. Muhsin Fani, Guru Har Gobind's contemporary, declared that "both Guru Har Gobind and Guru Gobind Singh did not use the sword out of anger on any occasion. The wars they fought were not communal; they were fought against the Hindu rajas and the Moghul armies. In his armies there were Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs." Even Mahatma Gandhi, writing in his article, The Doctrine of the Sword, said: "I do believe that when there is only a choice between cowardice and violence I would advise violence. I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honour than that she should in a cowardly manner remain a helpless victim to her own dishonour."
[2]. In the Guru Granth the name Gobind is written both as Govind and Gobind. But in Guru Gobind Singh's writings it always occurs with " b " as Gobind. Guru Gobind Singh spent most of his life in the Doaba area of the Punjab where the words with "v" are pronounced " b . " Guru Gobind Singh used it very often in his writings. He writes bade bade for vade vade; maru bajia for maru vajia; abigat for avigat; Bishnu for Vishnu; barn for varn, and innumerable other cases. So Guruji preferred to write his name as Gobind and not as Govind.
[3]. Mata Sundri saw a young boy who in features resembled her eldest son Ajit Singh so much that she adopted him much against the wishes and advice of Bhai Mani Singh and desired that all relatives and Sikhs should treat him as her son. She even arranged his marriage as poor compensation for her deeply cherished desire to have seen the marriage of Ajit Singh, who fell a martyr in the battle of Chamkaur. This adopted son proved so hopeless that he had to be publicly disowned. He even discarded the Sikh faith under the threats of the Muslim rulers. Latter he was involved in a crime and as punishment was tied to the tail of an elephant and met a terrible death.
[4]. To belittle the martyrdom of Bhai Mani Singh some people invented the story that he was cursed by the Sikhs for dividing the Guru Granth into parts authorwipe. It was Bhai Mani Singh who wrote the final version of Guru Granth Sahib as dictated by Guru Gobind Singh. Bhai Mani Singh would never have dared to undo it. The fact that Bhai Mani Singh was in favour of having even Dasm Granth in one volume disproves this theory
to be continued....

 

[Randip Singh]

You still are not getting it. Guru gobind singh was there in person when these two manuscripts were compiled. His hand writing and signature are there. What else you want?

You seem to raise questions without reading the posts in the thread.The following was posted by me in the same thread


Sri Dasam Granth Sahib of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib
Glimpse of the oldest available beerh of Sri Dasam Granth from 1698 AD




Contents from the rare handwritten beerh of Sri Dasam Granth compiled in 1755 Bikrami (1698 A.D.), one year before the formation of Khalsa. The date when this historic beerh was compiled is given in the introductory paragraph. This beerh is preserved at Takhat Sri Patna Sahib. It is noteworthy that Guru Gobind Singh Sahib’s bani "Zafarnamah" which was written in 1704 A.D., six years after this beerh was compiled, does not feature in this beerh. Also noteworthy is the name of the granth that appears on the top, “Patshah Dasven Ju Ka Granth” (The Granth of the Tenth Master).

The year mentioned on this handwritten beerh is also significant because Bhai Kesar Singh Chibber too in Bansavalinama records that Guru Gobind Singh Sahib had himself compiled the Granth in 1755 Bikrami (1698 A.D.), and this Chhota Granth[1] was very dear to him. Evidently that this is one of the oldest beerhs which Guru Sahib himself compiled before the formation of the Khalsa. Later compilations of the complete banees of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib is attributed to Bhai Mani Singh.

ਛੋਟਾ ਗਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਜਨਮੇ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਕੇ ਧਾਮ।
ਸੰਮਤ ਸਤਾਰਾਂ ਸੈ ਪਚਵੰਜਾ, ਬਹੁਤ ਖਿਡਾਵੇ ਲਿਖਾਰੇ ਨਾਮ।
ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੂੰ ਸੀ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਹਥੀਂ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਖਿਡਾਇਆ। ​

ਸਿਖਾਂ ਕੀਤੀ ਅਰਦਾਸ, 'ਜੀ ਅਗਲੇ (ਭਾਵ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ) ਨਾਲਿ ਚਾਹੀਏ ਰਲਾਇਆ'।
ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ, 'ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਹੈ ਉਹ, ਏਹ ਅਸਾਡੀ ਖੇਡ ਹੈ।'
ਨਾਲਿ ਨ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ਆਹਾ ਪਿਆਰਾ, ਕਉਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਭੇਦ।​

ਸੋ ਦੋਨੋ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰ ਜਾਨੋ।​

ਵਡਾ ਹੈ ਟਿਕਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਟਕੇ ਪੋਥੀਆਂ ਪੁਤਰ ਪੋਤਰੇ ਕਿਰ ਪਛਾਨੋ​

(ਬੰਸਾਵਲੀਨਾਮਾ, ਭਾਈ ਕੇਸਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਛਿੱਬਰ) [1] Kesar Singh Chibber calls the granth as Chotta Granth (small granth) in relation to the statu

I think you misunderstand.

These sites I can find, I am looking for some academic research. There is a lot of stuff I am reading at the moment where some Sikh academics are going to the extent of verifying Sikh hukamanama's.

The classic case of Gandha Singh and Hukamname comes to mind where most have not been verified and many have been proved to be fake.

Have you any academic research? Chandigarh University maybe etc?

 

[Inder singh]

I think you misunderstand.

These sites I can find, I am looking for some academic research. There is a lot of stuff I am reading at the moment where some Sikh academics are going to the extent of verifying Sikh hukamanama's.

The classic case of Gandha Singh and Hukamname comes to mind where most have not been verified and many have been proved to be fake.

Have you any academic research? Chandigarh University maybe etc?

Availability of original manuscripts( We have three here in digitzed form) is the biggest proof. There was a sodhak committe formed in last decade of nineteenth century. They concluded by going through various manuscripts that whole Dasam granth is the work of tenth master.

Gurinder singh Mann a scholar from england has done his masters in this subject. He was with me in USA last year. He has a lot of research in dasam granth. That is the reason i mentioned him to you. But you took it as a joke.

He knows Madra and Paramjit singh. Meet him and he will let you know all the details.

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Respected Inder Singh Ji,

I am astounded...........GUTKAS are NOT GRANTHS. How could a GUTKA have BOTH "GRANTHS"...??? do you mean Banis... ?? and Panj Granthi pothis etc. I use the Das Granthi pothi to teach....that is bani of GGS.

2. Having BANIS in a GUTKA.....is different..after all GUTKAS are NOT "GURU"....Would anyone dare to Parkash a GUTKA ?? in place of SGGS ?? i dotn think so.

3. BINDING the SGGS together with dsm granth is NOT what GURU GOBIND SINGH JI DID in 1708. The BIR that Guru Ji Bowed to and Gave Gurgadee was JUST the SGGS ONLY.

Gyani Ji..

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.......

Maafi chawanga...but "BAANI GURU..GURU HAI BAANI"..even Pothis (here I mena Gutka) I don't use Gutka..because it is not used by our Gurus...they used Pothi.."POTHI PARMESHAR KA THAAN"...so every page that contains baani is Guru Swaroop, but can not take a place of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...Pothi has the same repect as SGGS Ji... because we bow to Baani...not a Book...if somebody just keep a book with even a bigger size without gurbani in it..we will not treat it as Guru....because It doesn't have Baani...so ultimately we are bowing to Baani...and when its contains sampooran baani of 1430
Ang ..its Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji......

( this all I heard in Katha.)

Bhul chuk maaf.......

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh...

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Re: [SPN] Ardaas Changed by Gurudwara Sangat in Finland

A MAJOR and DRASTIC OVERHAUL is needed..and it will COME...sooner than later...the Berri is FULL..it will soon SINK. When Jathedars give feeble excuses like..Let the 300th Anniversary clebrations be over..then we will decide...Let the Keshgarh Jathedars sons weddign be over..then we will decide....thats when the ROT is overwhelmingly apparent. Fortunes of a NATION cannot and must not be made to wait for aJathedar's sons wedding to be over !!! ( btw that particular wedding has been OVER for many many MONTHS now....!!)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh..

You are right Gyani ji.............

 

[Amarpal]

Dear Khalsa Ji,

As a Sikh, I worship 'Nirakaar' and seek the grace of 'The Sat' to become its perfect intrument to work for its creation as long as I am enbodied.

Ardas as it is, is mostly about 'Akaars' with some sprinkling about 'Nirakaar'.

My prayers are always to 'The Sat' - 'The Nirakaar'. All the Gurus Sahibs are my Gurus and I learn Sikhi from their lives and teaching enshrined in Siri Guru Granth Sahib; I revere them, but do not worship them. I worship only the 'Nirakaar' which Guru Sahib has asked us to do.

My worship is limited to Jaap, Simran and Sewa; my efforts are directed to cleanse my thought process and strive for a pure functioning brain which will lead me to virtuous living as asked by Guru Sahibs in Siri Guru Granth Sahib.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

 

[Randip Singh]

Availability of original manuscripts( We have three here in digitzed form) is the biggest proof. There was a sodhak committe formed in last decade of nineteenth century. They concluded by going through various manuscripts that whole Dasam granth is the work of tenth master.

Gurinder singh Mann a scholar from england has done his masters in this subject. He was with me in USA last year. He has a lot of research in dasam granth. That is the reason i mentioned him to you. But you took it as a joke.

He knows Madra and Paramjit singh. Meet him and he will let you know all the details.

I think you are missing the point, I want you to direct me to sources that have verified these manuscripts.

I want actual names of books or reports that have studied these with ISBN numbers.

Have you got these, if not, just say so?