Ardas Over Food = Purification Like Halal?

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

So why do they keep water near them? You have not answered that...

I honestly have no idea ji..
as for myself..i have a bottle of mineral water enarby..to quench my thirst once in a while doing path

 

[seeker3k]

I feel it is not done to purify "langar food" but to offer thanks to the ultimate provider "The Creator", Gurbani supports it, as quote given by VSGREWAL Ji, ardas is to keep Him in mind.This is the way I look at it.

Dear PK,
No matter how we justify, it is to purify the food. We have been brain washed that if we do ardas is for our good. We are told that god is living person that will touch the food we offer. Why do we mix the so called parsad with the rest of the food before we serve it to sangat. Let me tell you how my thinking was changed.
In 1977 I went to India to find God(as if god is only in India).There I was in contact with spiritual group who convinced to do ardas. I was asked to say: at the food the food that you gave me I am going to eat with your permission. They claim by saying this there will be no karam is created, because I am eating with god’s permission. I got convinced and started doing it. One day I went to see my Uncle, in his village. In the rasoi the girl was making roti and was serving me and my uncle. Before I started to eat, the girl saw me and said bhaji is doing ardas. My uncle asked me what I am doing. I told him the reason. My uncle said it is very good idea but how long it take to say this in the mind? I said about one second. He said why the ritual then. That made me realize where I was stuck.
We do not use logic as to what we are doing; we just do it because some told us that it is good for us.
seeker3k@gmail.com

 

[seeker3k]

We are trying to copy what the Hindus are doing. They put food by the idols. After the ardas they give it as parsad. We put the fod by the SGGS (book) and at the end of the reading we take the food and mix with the food and serve it to sangat.
If the Hindus ritual is not right then how can our be right.
seeker3k@gmail.com

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Dear All,

You are talking about food just look at this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gWDcBddddU&feature=related[/FON"]YouTube - aarti patna sahib ji


Cordially,

Virinder

 

[spnadmin]

Because it is not the same thing. Sri Guru Granth Sahib is not an idol.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

We are trying to copy what the Hindus are doing. They put food by the idols. After the ardas they give it as parsad. We put the fod by the SGGS (book) and at the end of the reading we take the food and mix with the food and serve it to sangat.
If the Hindus ritual is not right then how can our be right.
seeker3k@gmail.com

NO JI. absolutely wrong.

1. The SGGS is not an "IDOL". Period. IDOLS are "REPRESENTATIONS" with absolutely NO VALUE except as representations. The SGGS is a "TREASURE HOUSE OF GURBANI"..teachings of the Gurus available for all who want to LEARN. KHOJ SHABAD MEH LEH is as clear as can be. What can one "KHOJ" in a stone idol ?? Turn it any way..there is nothing except stone/metal.

2. The Karrah Parsad is Kirpan Bhet, the 5 portions taken out are meant in REMEMBRANCE of the Supreme sacriifice of the PANJ PIYARAS in 1699 when they cane forward to offer their HEADS. The Five Portions are meant to be DISTRIBUTED among the Sangat.
Some under influence of "misguidance"...look around in the sangat and JUDGE that NO ONE IS AS PERFECT as the ORIGINAL PANJ PIYARAS..so they take the EASY WAY OUT by MIXING the five portions into the rest of the Degh. THIS IS WRONG and NOT as per SRM. The NEAREST FIVE PERSONS..clean shaven/women/child/whatever should be given the panj piayara portion.Period. NO DISCRIMINATION. NO JUDGING.

3. ONLY the GHEE/SUGAR/ATTA FLOUR/WATER prepared Karah parsad is PARSAAD...no other FOOD can be DEGH. Unlike Hindu mandirs where coconuts,,bananas..ladoos, chholeh jalebis etc is PARSAAD. Those sikhs who treat other foods "as parsad" are also WRONG. SRM only SANCTIONS the DEGH for distribution in Gurdwara...because KIRPAN BHET is compulsory for ALL "DEGH".

4 The ARDASS is not performed to make the DEGH 'HOLY"...or for the SGGS. Its a THANKSGIVING ARDASS..shukrana to AKAL PURAKH for providing it...and may such bounties flow uninterrupted from HIM to his sewaks.

Due to the Heavy influence of Hinduism in Sikhs, many brahminical practises which are MALPRACTISES as per SRM/Gurbani/Gurmatt are creeping into Sikhism. We must use our senses and reject all such. One such is the JHOOTH of a sant/baba/holy man which is considered "holy" Sikhism has nO such practise. no ones jhooth should be taken. Many Sant babas and Dehdharee GURUDOMS are gettign so bold as to SPIT into food to eb served to their followers as "HOLY SPIT" what utter RUBBISH.SEET parsaad ?? NO.:advocate:

 

[seeker3k]

For you it is not Idol but when it is analyzed it is Idol. An Idol is: not alive don’t talk don’t move don’t eat and do other things that alive things do. Can you show us that your SGGS is doing all the these things? If not then it is Idol. You say that it is treasure, it is treasure of poetry. I give that this poetry is good to guide one in life but still it is poetry in which is in the book Books don’t talk. One have to learn that language to understand. It is not good for any one who cant read that language. Further more one have know other language to understand the message. The living guru is one who can explain in plane language. Every one make claim that he is the only one who can really understand the bani.No one is interested in knowing what the bani says. They just want to sing it.
It is also a treasure house in other way. People put money in the golak. That is the real reason that it is worshiped.
What is written in the SGGS it has been written before by others. There is nothing new in it.
When we go to school to learn. There are given books on each subject and also there was a teacher for each subject. If there is no need for the live teacher as we claim then there is no need for the living guru. Then there should be no schools. Doctor learn from books and I have seen no doctor worshiping the books he learned from. Why are we worshiping the SGGS. The whole idea is about the soul and god? We are making big thing about the rituals. I know it make person feel good when he worship. It is not about feeling good. It is to understand one self and do no harm to others.
There is reason and logic in the world that can make you understand what is real. So good luck

 

[seeker3k]

Thanks. It is very good writing. I will reply shortly.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

For you it is not Idol but when it is analyzed it is Idol. An Idol is: not alive don’t talk don’t move don’t eat and do other things that alive things do. Can you show us that your SGGS is doing all the these things? If not then it is Idol. You say that it is treasure, it is treasure of poetry. I give that this poetry is good to guide one in life but still it is poetry in which is in the book Books don’t talk. One have to learn that language to understand. It is not good for any one who cant read that language. Further more one have know other language to understand the message. The living guru is one who can explain in plane language. Every one make claim that he is the only one who can really understand the bani.No one is interested in knowing what the bani says. They just want to sing it.
It is also a treasure house in other way. People put money in the golak. That is the real reason that it is worshiped.
What is written in the SGGS it has been written before by others. There is nothing new in it.
When we go to school to learn. There are given books on each subject and also there was a teacher for each subject. If there is no need for the live teacher as we claim then there is no need for the living guru. Then there should be no schools. Doctor learn from books and I have seen no doctor worshiping the books he learned from. Why are we worshiping the SGGS. The whole idea is about the soul and god? We are making big thing about the rituals. I know it make person feel good when he worship. It is not about feeling good. It is to understand one self and do no harm to others.
There is reason and logic in the world that can make you understand what is real. So good luck

Dear seeker3 Ji,

You said that one has to Learn the language of the SGGS to understand.ABSOLUTELY .right Ji...BUT the same applies to a Living Guru...it cant be that a "Living Guru" SPEAKS each and every language ? Surely his FOLLOWERS have to be conversant with the ONE/two..maybe three/// language that HE speaks ?? Just How many Languages does the average Living Guru speak well ?? You see we become quite blinded by our own living guru...it happens...I know the Radhasoami Guru. He is a Typical Living Guru..so I will confine my thoughts to him only....He speaks good English as he is a trained Engineer and was staying in Australia clean shaven and all before he got the gadee and grew a long beard and put a dastaar on his head....he may speak hindi/punajbi.....but thats about it..cna he communicate in Ukrainian..French..Chinese..F{censored}e..Arabic..etc etc ??

You say SGGS is "just poetry"....I say the "living Guru" is JUST WORDS....what else he got. The SGGS has Centuries of Persoanl Experiences of Godly men and Bhagats to communicate their Message of Divine LOVE to us...the "living Guru" has just his own limited ones...in simple WORDS only. The "LG" also solicits MONEY and properties and lands..of his followers...not in an open way a s in "Goluck"..but behind the back ways that enrich them even more.

IDOLS have no langauge and need no language. because they got nothing to communicate. The SGGS has so much to Communicate.

Yes a Doctor wont "worship" his books..BUT he does REFER to them..and he does keep himslef "EDUCATED" and up to date through OTHER BOOKS of simialr nature....no doctor stops after graduation !! Same for all other worldly education..BUT then the SGGS is NOT about Worldly education..its BRAHAM BICHAAR....of the Creator...

Btw there is such a thing as Open learning....Distance Learning...very little use for "living teachers"..people learn and graduate through their computers...to be fair to "living Guru" adherents..many such "living Gurus" also maintain WEBSITES and do INTERNET PARCHAAR for a wider audience and more money. WHY they DONT close down these sites and just be "LIVING GURU" in PERSON...less money and less followers !!!! Reality does bite...

Thank you and keep in chardeekalla jio...

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

and best of all..my "living Guru..the SGGS" is available 24/7....365 days any time day or night any place..for as much time as i like...whenever i feel the need..He is there to comfort me..guide me..love me through hsi beautiful poetry of Divine Love...NO LIMITATIONS of any kind..dont have to "feed Him"..bathe him...pay him...he never gets angry..annoyed..at being woken up at 3 am if i like it...i dont have to wait for him...I ASK,,and He answers...soemthing an idol cannot do..ever.

ALL those things can NEVER happen with a
living human Guru"....so i will Never ever have any other except my very own..SGGS. SGGS serves my every NEED...so well that i cant ask for anything more...:whisling::whisling::whisling::whisling:

 

[Hardip Singh]

Dear Seeker3 jee,
I am sorry to say here you are wrong. One will be able to interpret any thing only upto the levels one has achieved in one's life. Any so called living Guru's discourse will be limited to his knowledge levels only. Whereas, the BANI in the Guru Granth Sahib jee is directly from the God. It is 'Dhur ki Bani' means Gods own words. Further, Guru sahib has clarified that 'Karta aap muhon kadaye' meaning the God is himself sending out these words thro my mouth. The meanings are self-explaintory; only you have to know the correct language. Idols never speak or send their Holy teachings thro some one . Only the Ultimate LORD (Akalpurakh jee) can do such an act thro some Holy Soul.

Further, The Supreme Court of India in the year 2006 in one of their landmarked judgements had confirmed that Shri Guru Granth sahib jee is 'A Living Guru' and hence any property in India can be registered in the name of SGGS jee. They had further added to the said judgement that other Holy Books like Gita, Ramayan, Kuran or Bible etc. are only Holy books of their respective faiths and are NOT their living Guru and hence, not intitled for any such deeds.

Moreover, you can have more guidence from a famous book written by Bhai Randhir Singh jee , titled 'Ki Guru Granth sahib de puja boot prasti hai'.
Thanks & regards.

 

[seeker3k]

Here we are talking about soul not the body.So when Indian gov declair that Sikhs are terrorist then you have problem. In this case you approved their ruling. Becouse it suit you. You admit that you are not holy soul that can get the bani from akal purkh. How can you know that it is from akal purkh. This akal purk can not speak by him/her self? Every one can claim that akal purkh is talking to him/her. There are other kind of people in India that the bhoot posess them the bhoot speak through them. Don’t tell me that akal pukh is bhoot. Would you believe me if I tell you that I am from another planet. I am here to see if people here are doing as I told them to do? I am sure you will not. Why do you belive what is written in the book as poems. I can say that poems are good have good message, that’s all. So are the other holly books beside kuran.
All relious people claim that their holy books are the word of god. Christain claim that Jesus is the only son of God, but you don’t believe them. Becouse you are using logic and dot take their word for it. So why do want me and other Sikhs to believe you that it is living guru. There is no living thing about this book. The massage in the SGGS is to naam simran. And do no harm to any life.No where in the book it say to worship the book.Guru Nanak condemn all what we are doing now in his name. If you have problem understanding then I suggest that you should get help from some one who can explain it to you.
Looks to me you have no experience Unbhab of your own. You just want to believe in the ritual. Do you really think that by doing the rituals you can please God? Can God be pleased or anger? By worshiping book as god you are lowering god to your level.
Do the naam simran then you will get some unbhab. Youwill see then what it is.Not just reading the book.
I am sure you have read books in school and learned trade, yet you don’t worship those books. Is that what Nanak wanted us to do? Where is Nanak’s writings that tells us that we should worship his writing.
When murder case go to judge. The judge has to listen all the evidence from a natural point. He is not bias if he is then it will not be justice. You are sikh because you were born in it. How many other religion have you studied before you became sikh? How do you know it is the best of the rest? There maybe ( I maybe wrong ) only about 5% amartdhari Sikhs in the world. Yet 95% are normal Sikhs. Are all these Sikhs going to hell because they are not amratdhari? What about the rest of the world population of the world? It is all about the soul. Think what you are believing. The very same thing I am saying now was said by Nanak. Then the people stoned him called him kuria. People like you are going to be here for ever.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Here we are talking about soul not the body.So when Indian gov declair that Sikhs are terrorist then you have problem. In this case you approved their ruling. Becouse it suit you. You admit that you are not holy soul that can get the bani from akal purkh. How can you know that it is from akal purkh. This akal purk can not speak by him/her self? Every one can claim that akal purkh is talking to him/her. There are other kind of people in India that the bhoot posess them the bhoot speak through them. Don’t tell me that akal pukh is bhoot. Would you believe me if I tell you that I am from another planet. I am here to see if people here are doing as I told them to do? I am sure you will not. Why do you belive what is written in the book as poems. I can say that poems are good have good message, that’s all. So are the other holly books beside kuran.
All relious people claim that their holy books are the word of god. Christain claim that Jesus is the only son of God, but you don’t believe them. Becouse you are using logic and dot take their word for it. So why do want me and other Sikhs to believe you that it is living guru. There is no living thing about this book. The massage in the SGGS is to naam simran. And do no harm to any life.No where in the book it say to worship the book.Guru Nanak condemn all what we are doing now in his name. If you have problem understanding then I suggest that you should get help from some one who can explain it to you.
Looks to me you have no experience Unbhab of your own. You just want to believe in the ritual. Do you really think that by doing the rituals you can please God? Can God be pleased or anger? By worshiping book as god you are lowering god to your level.
Do the naam simran then you will get some unbhab. Youwill see then what it is.Not just reading the book.
I am sure you have read books in school and learned trade, yet you don’t worship those books. Is that what Nanak wanted us to do? Where is Nanak’s writings that tells us that we should worship his writing.
When murder case go to judge. The judge has to listen all the evidence from a natural point. He is not bias if he is then it will not be justice. You are sikh because you were born in it. How many other religion have you studied before you became sikh? How do you know it is the best of the rest? There maybe ( I maybe wrong ) only about 5% amartdhari Sikhs in the world. Yet 95% are normal Sikhs. Are all these Sikhs going to hell because they are not amratdhari? What about the rest of the world population of the world? It is all about the soul. Think what you are believing. The very same thing I am saying now was said by Nanak. Then the people stoned him called him kuria. People like you are going to be here for ever.

How can you know that it is from akal purkh.[/QUOTE]

Sir, Can I ask you a question. How can you prove to a third party you love someone?

 

[seeker3k]

Mr. Vohra ji

Is that the same Bhai sahib Randhir Singh whowas in jail as freedom fighter.His group is called akhand kirtania?
If he is the same one, I have nothing to do with his writing or with his group. They don’t even eat langar at gurdwaras. They don’t eat any food at their relatives. THEY ONLY EAT AT THOSE WHO GOT THE AMRIT AT THEIR GROUP They CLEAN EVERY POT AND PAN AND CLEAN THE STOVE BEFORE THEY MAKE THEIR FOOD.
What you said about the SGGS is living person and the property can be registered on SGGS’s name. That made SGGS a corporation. Do you think it is good thing that SGGS is corporation? Corporation have to make profit in the corporation by-laws. Just like any corporation it become business. Thanks for making it clear for us. Now we are the followers of corporation.

 

[Hardip Singh]

Dear seeker3 jee,

Living person never means a corporation. You are a living being does not means you are a corporation. Corporation has to be a group of people doing something of their common interest.

Guru Nanak sahib has elobrated in one of his teachings to grab the TRUTH / Knowledge about HIM , even if it is availible with someone whom you donot follow or belive. Truth remains the truth. If it is said in abook by Bhai sahib of AKJ does not matter, it is still the truth findings. I do not belong to AKJ but still I feel what Bhai sahib has said in that book is a fact only.

Further, you started reply by saying the Govt. labeling us as Terorist . I will like to inform you that the the said judgement was not delivered by a politically compelled Government but was a judgement by a full bench of eminent jurists of Supreme Court who after going thro a lot of heated discussion on the said topic by various religious groups, delivered the judgement.

I hope you will be able to relize what I me

 

[Randip Singh]

Mr. Vohra ji

Is that the same Bhai sahib Randhir Singh whowas in jail as freedom fighter.His group is called akhand kirtania?
If he is the same one, I have nothing to do with his writing or with his group. They don’t even eat langar at gurdwaras. They don’t eat any food at their relatives. THEY ONLY EAT AT THOSE WHO GOT THE AMRIT AT THEIR GROUP They CLEAN EVERY POT AND PAN AND CLEAN THE STOVE BEFORE THEY MAKE THEIR FOOD.
.

On a side note and I suppose to do with purification, this smacks of purity i.e. that which is practiced by those who belive in Halal and those who have Brahmanical puritanical tendencies? :ice:

I understand Namdhari's do tis as well? :yes:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

many sants and tasklils derawadees do that too....they have separate langgars for so called high and low castes ....their "brahimin/vedic" roots force this behaviour...althogh they look like sikhs complete with 3 or 5 ft kirpans

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Virinder ji,

Guru Fateh.

I agree, that Sikhi is the journey of the individual and the only roadmap- the true GPS for this journey is SGGS. However, it is also important to point out that many cults in Sikhi who stand out as Sikhs with Kakaars believe in their cultish rituals and practice them in their everyday lives in Brahmanical ways and due to this they do not act like 'cones' to protect us from the potential dangers when the roads are being repaired but as road blocks to the Sikhi Marg.

Having said that, I also agree with you that we as individuals should talk about our own frailties and short comings more often than others'. If we do not learn through the tools given to us by our Gurus in SGGS to value our own diamonds within, then we will keep on claiming other people's diamonds as mere rocks. Once we learn to be the true evaluators of the selves then only we will be able to spark our inner amber whose light will benefit all that surround us.

Isn't that the true essence of " Vand kei Chaknah"?

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Posts formerly number 98 and 99 have been removed. Please post the entire shabad with English translation and Gurmukhi, along with the Ang number. Thank you, aad0002

 

[seeker3k]

Dear VSGrewal ji,

You said it lot better then I could have. We Sikhs always talk about what is in GGS. This statement is wrong. It sound that it is in only this GGS is right. Spirituality is all over in every walk of life. It is not one religion’s domain. All the religions are made by men. Men are corrupt power hungry greedy. We Sikhs claim that what is in GGS it came from God. Do we make a claim about our Gurus bani came from God or other bhagat,sants’s bani too.
There is nothing in GGS that is new. It has been said before by many people. We celebrate our Guru’s birth day and their death. I have not seen we celebrating bhat and sant’s birth dayds. Yet we claim that GGS is our Guru. When we chose some and not the other it make us bias. How those people feel about it when we neglect their Gurus.
Is there a need to celebrate of dead people when we have so called living guru.
Looks like we do not really believe that this is living guru. I know this statement will make many people angry. But truth heart.
One of the person replied to my question that the Truth is Truth. There are over 6 billion people in this world, that’s how many truths there are. No one is really interested in knowing the truth. We can not handle the TRUTH. We look for other people’s writing to certify our truth and claim that it is the truth. If one want to know the Truth he/she must examine his/her own truth.. Getting birth in Sikh family does not make us sikh. We must study the Sikhism to the core and weed out the faulty rituals that take us away from the spirituality
What is the real purpose of keeping the 5K’s. It is the soul that we should be worring about. The body and all the K’s will be left here. This is the message in the GGS, as I can understand it. Making the khalsa was needed then and I do respect Guru Gobind Singh for creating the Khalsa. That is not, be all and end all. If doing our rituals are going to save our soul as we believe. Then other relious rituals are as good as ours. Yet ignore and hate other beings. Is this what Guru Nanak wanted or Guru Gobind Singh? I refuse to belive that. Why? Because I have unbhub my experiences. I started on this path back in 1971. Then one of the person showed me how to realize my self. I started as a ritual but all the rituals are dropped now. If that will take me to hell as others say to me, then so be it. I know the TRUTH that’s all that matter. As now I can not be bound by any rituals.
This sabd guru, you are talking about. Can you explain what it is and how it works?
Nanak talked about it. As you know or may not know this sabd guru as waheguru was not there at the time of Guru Nanak. Then what was he talking about? Why are we stuck that this is sabd guru. Did Nanak kept it secret as the group of Bhai sahib Randher Sing’s group claim. I believe that sabd is guru that’s all we need. It is not only in Sikhism. The naam sabd was there in the begging and it will be here for ever. Maybe some can explain how it works. The sabd is not in isms. But people make religion in the name of sabd.
Ask your self why I am doing what I am doing. Then you can know your self. It start with knowing one self. There is no rituals needed. May be in the begging it is needed. As we go to school to learn. Every year we move to next class to learn more by leaving the pervious class behind. If we chose to remain in same class over and over. We will know every thing that is taught in that class but will not know and will miss out what we could have learned in higher class.
Choice is yours.