• Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Beware Of Fake Babas And Cults

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
amarsanghera ji

Do you mean saadh(u) ke sang, saadh ke sang or possibly saadh kai sang(h)? These 3 are all various translits of the same thing. {sadhu = saadh(u) and ke = kai}

Found this way,
Saadh kai sang pargatai sugiaan. Saadh kai sang bujhai prabh neraa: In Saadh Sangat, spiritual wisdom is revealed. In the Company of the Holy, God is understood to be near at hand. Bani of Guru Arjan Dev ji, Ang 271).


You would also see it this way, saadhh janaa kai sang bhavajal thaarian ||
saakath nindhak dhusatt khin maahi bidhaarian

In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, we are carried across the terrifying world-ocean. In an instant, You have destroyed the faithless cynics and slanderous enemies.

which is the Bani of Guru Arjan Dev ji on Ang 517

Gurbani search did not turn up sadhu ke sang
 

Archived_Member_19

(previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t
SPNer
Jun 7, 2006
1,323
145
how does one identify a saadh or sadhu which Guru ji wants us to meet ( assuming Guruji meant it)
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
how does one identify a saadh or sadhu which Guru ji wants us to meet ( assuming Guruji meant it)

saadh or saadh(u) means "holy" and sadhu means holy person, or enlightened person. It was the pronunciation shift that make it hard to find your term on a search engine. In a minute I will edit and put in the Gurbani words for each one. Transliteration is a pain because the Gurmukhi can have more than one English equivalent. English language is the problem, not the Gurmukhi.

saadh or saadh(u) ਸਾਧ versus sadhu or sadhoo ਸਾਧੂ - same but not the same if you see the two little lines under ਧ versus ਧੂ .

Anyway, to answer your question -- I don't know and would like to hear an answer myself.

Cheers:)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Amarsanghera Jee!

Sadhus are rare to find in buildings called Gurdwaaraas, temples, Churches or other worldly places for ritual worship. To reserve their seats in Gurdwaaraas, Sick Baabaas are trying to convince people that true Sadhus are not existing. Truth is that true Sadhus have no interest to visit a business center based on a worldly religion.

Please be sure to convince your Baabaa sitting in Gurdwaaraa when someone goes to meet a Sadhu. Tell him that you will come back to Mathaa Tek your dollar, in case he has found your plans.

I have found the word 'Sadhu' occurring many hundred times in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee.

Please ponder. Gurdev is singing.

sbid n BIjY swkqw durmiq Awvnu jwnu ]
sbid n BIjY swkqw durmiq Awvnu jwnu ]
"Sabad na bheejay saaktaa durmati aavanu jaanu."
Sabad, does not resolve Saakataa. Evil-minded comes and goes.

swDU sqguru jy imlY qw pweIAY guxI inDwnu ]
swDU sqgu{ jy imlY qw pweéEy guxI inDwnu ]
"Sadhoo Satguru je milay taa paaeeai gunee nidhaan." SGGS Ang 21-8
Sadhu Satguru if meets then one receives Gunee Nidhaan.

'Sadhu ke sang' means the company of Saadhoo. The true Gurus say often to meet the Sadhu but they never say to meet a Raagee, Kathaakaar, Granthee or reader of a book to receive Naam Simran.


Balbir Singh
 

Archived_Member_19

(previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t
SPNer
Jun 7, 2006
1,323
145
point accepted

so you want to say that the ragees or katha vachaks are not "sadhus" as defined in SGGS

good point.

but how does one identify "sadhu"

what is the motive for the one ata higher level to meet others?

why would the fountain go to thirsty?

if it is fountain...that is...

getting my point?
 

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
Dhan Dhan Gurbani is Nirankaar/Saadh/Sant/Guru ITSELF....


Saadh/Guru ka bachan is no less in any manner than Saadh/Guru Himself


Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani............
Bani Nirankaar Hai.............

Pothee Parmesvar kaa thaanv.....


Waheguru has given us the power to read, listen, sing, and understand and then follow the truth in our lives.............

gaavyaa sunyaa tina ka thaanay pavay jin satguru ki agyaa sach sach kar maanee..............


ENJOY THE ANAND
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
Balbir ji

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Amarsanghera Jee!


swDU sqguru jy imlY qw pweIAY guxI inDwnu ]
swDU sqgu{ jy imlY qw pweéEy guxI inDwnu ]
"Sadhoo Satguru je milay taa paaeeai gunee nidhaan." SGGS Ang 21-8
Sadhu Satguru if meets then one receives Gunee Nidhaan.

Sadhoo Satguru means Guruji.

Balbir Singh

Sorry:)
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Amarsanghera Jee!

One is engaged with different techniques and wanders around the earth but does not come to solace.

Aink brK kIey jp qwpw ]
Aink brK kIE jp qwpw ]
"anik barakh keee jap taapaa."

gvnu kIAw DrqI Brmwqw ]
gvnu kIAw DrqI Brmwqw ]
"gavan keeaa dhartee bharmaataa."

ieku iKnu ihrdY sWiq n AwvY jogI bhuiV bhuiV auiT DwvY jIau ]3]
eku iKnu ihrdY sWiq n AwvY jogI bhuiV bhuiV aiT DwvY jIa ]3]
"iku khinu hirdai saaNti na aavai jogee bahurhi bahurhi uthi Dhaavai jee-o." ||3||

Gurdev is singing. Doing mercy HE introduced me with the Sadhu. Body and mind received coolness and calmness. The immortal God has come to dwell within. Hari's Bliss Naanak is singing.

kir ikrpw moih swDu imlwieAw ]
kir ikrpw moih swDu imlweAw ]
"kari kirpaa mohi saadhu milaaiaa."

mnu qnu sIqlu DIrju pwieAw ]
mnu qnu sIqlu DIrju pweAw ]
"manu tanu seetalu dheeraj paaiaa."

pRBu AibnwsI bisAw Gt BIqir hir mMglu nwnku gwvY jIau ]
pRBu AibnwsI bisAw Gt BIqir hir mNglu nwnku gwvY jIa ]
"parabhu abhinaasee basiaa ghat bheetari hari mangalu naanaku gaavai jeeo." SGGS Ang 98-6

This is the company of Sadhu and its result.

**************

Quote "but how does one identify 'sadhu'."
Through Sadhu one receives true Gur of Naam and its results as described by Gurdev.
Please do not waste more time with those in their company nothing works. They have only empty promises.

Quote "what is the motive for the one ata higher level to meet others?"
God sends His Grace through them.

Quote "why would the fountain go to thirsty?"
The Fountain remains there where HE is. God sends water through Sadhu to quench one's thirst.

**************

Fake Baabaas and their Beebees may stop one to meet the Sadhu saying ' Dhan Dhan Gurbani is Nirankaar/Saadh/Sant/Guru ITSELF....'. Do not go anywhere else. Remain thirsty. God will drop Amrit in your mouth one day. They promise.


Balbir Singh
 

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
'Saadh ka sang' 'Satsang' 'Satguru ke Charan' many different ways Guru Sahibaan has mentioned that we must be in the company of Saints.

Now nobody can deny this that Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a 'SAINT'..

Guru is not the physical body, Guru is the Soul, that is merged with Akaal Purkh.

same is a Saint- a soul (NOT THE PHYSICAL BODY OF FLESH AND BLOOD) that is merged with God.

as many people started to cheat people by acting like Sikh Saints(HISTORY TELLS ABOUT IT DURING GURU TEGH BAHADAR JI'S TIME), Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji tackled this problem for the humanity ONCE AND FOR ALL.

pepole still try to cheat others but majority does understand and follow Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

regarding Reading and Singing Gurbani, Balbir Veer can try his best, I DONT THINK ANY COURT OF THIS WORLD CAN STOP a bhaee/raagee/you/me/or anybody from reading, listening and singing Gurbani in Gurdwara Building or in their own home or in their minds.

If one goes to gurdwara to see a bhaee, then it is his/her bhudhi. If one goes to Gurdwara to listen Gurbani, contemplate on Gurbani, then too it is his/her budhi. And Gurbani does not get any less effective if a non Gurmukh reads it. Gurbani is Nirankaar Pure Always afresh. Sahib mera neet nawaa sadaa sadaa dataar. ..............

Amrit is pouring right within as well as everywhere, some people waste it by simply getting indulged in wasteful tasks, some recieve it ceaselessly.............................

Dhan Dhan Sache Paatshah de Paavan Bachan:


swkq kI Awvrdw jwie ibRQwrI ] (681-7, DnwsrI, mÚ 5)
saakat kee aavradaa jaa-ay barithaaree.
The faithless cynic passes his life uselessly.
jYsy kwgd ky Bwr mUsw tUik gvwvq kwim nhI gwvwrI ] rhwau ] (681-7, DnwsrI, mÚ 5)
jaisay kaagad kay bhaar moosaa took gavaavat kaam nahee gaavaaree. rahaa-o.
He is like the mouse, gnawing away at the pile of paper, making it useless to the poor wretch. ||Pause||
kir ikrpw pwrbRhm suAwmI ieh bMDn CutkwrI ] (681-8, DnwsrI, mÚ 5)
kar kirpaa paarbarahm su-aamee ih banDhan chhutkaaree.
Have mercy on me, O Supreme Lord God, and release me from these bonds.
bUfq AMD nwnk pRB kwFq swD jnw sMgwrI ]2]11]42] (681-8, DnwsrI, mÚ 5)
boodat anDh naanak parabh kaadhat saaDh janaa sangaaree. ||2||11||42||
The blind are sinking, O Nanak; God saves them, uniting them with the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. ||2||11||42||


humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
 

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
Dhan Dhan Guru Sahib Sache Paatshah da hukam hai:


gurU ijnw kw AMDulw cyly nwhI Twau ] (58-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
guroo jinaa kaa anDhulaa chaylay naahee thaa-o.
Those chaylaas, those devotees, whose spiritual teacher is blind, shall not find their place of rest.


doesn't take very long to know about a fake baba. Chelas advertise them really well............
 

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
Dhan Dhan Sache Paatshah Da Hukam Hai:


gurU ijnw kw AMDulw isK BI AMDy krm kryin ] (951-7, rwmklI, mÚ 3)
guroo jinaa kaa anDhulaa sikh bhee anDhay karam karayn.
The disciples whose teacher is blind, act blindly as well.
Eie BwxY clin AwpxY inq JUTo JUTu bolyin ] (951-8, rwmklI, mÚ 3)
o-ay bhaanai chalan aapnai nit jhootho jhooth bolayn.
They walk according to their own wills, and continually speak falsehood and lies.
kUVu kusqu kmwvdy pr inMdw sdw kryin ] (951-8, rwmklI, mÚ 3)
koorh kusat kamaavday par nindaa sadaa karayn.
They practice falsehood and deception, and endlessly slander others.
Eie Awip fuby pr inMdkw sgly kul fobyin ] (951-9, rwmklI, mÚ 3)
o-ay aap dubay par nindkaa saglay kul dobayn.
Slandering others, they drown themselves, and drown all their generations as well.
nwnk ijqu Eie lwey iqqu lgy auie bpuVy ikAw kryin ]2] (951-9, rwmklI, mÚ 3)
naanak jit o-ay laa-ay tit lagay u-ay bapurhay ki-aa karayn. ||2||
O Nanak, whatever the Lord links them to, to that they are linked; what can the poor creatures do? ||2||
 

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126

swrg mhlw 5 ] (1226-3)
saarag mehlaa 5.
Saarang, Fifth Mehl:
poQI prmysr kw Qwnu ] (1226-3, swrMg, mÚ 5)
pothee parmaysar kaa thaan.
This Holy Book is the home of the Transcendent Lord God.
swDsMig gwvih gux goibMd pUrn bRhm igAwnu ]1] rhwau ] (1226-3, swrMg, mÚ 5)
saaDhsang gaavahi gun gobind pooran barahm gi-aan. ||1|| rahaa-o.
Whoever sings the Glorious Praises of the Lord of the Universe in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, has the perfect knowledge of God. ||1||Pause||
swiDk isD sgl muin locih ibrly lwgY iDAwnu ] (1226-4, swrMg, mÚ 5)
saaDhik siDh sagal mun locheh birlay laagai Dhi-aan.
The Siddhas and seekers and all the silent sages long for the Lord, but those who meditate on Him are rare.
ijsih ik®pwlu hoie myrw suAwmI pUrn qw ko kwmu ]1] (1226-4, swrMg, mÚ 5)
jisahi kirpaal ho-ay mayraa su-aamee pooran taa ko kaam. ||1||
That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is merciful - all his tasks are perfectly accomplished. ||1||
jw kY irdY vsY BY BMjnu iqsu jwnY sgl jhwnu ] (1226-5, swrMg, mÚ 5)
jaa kai ridai vasai bhai bhanjan tis jaanai sagal jahaan.
One whose heart is filled with the Lord, the Destroyer of fear, knows the whole world.
iKnu plu ibsru nhI myry krqy iehu nwnku mWgY dwnu ]2]90]113] (1226-5, swrMg, mÚ 5)
khin pal bisar nahee mayray kartay ih naanak maaNgai daan. ||2||90||113||
May I never forget You, even for an instant, O my Creator Lord; Nanak begs for this blessing. ||2||90||113||


 

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
just couldn't stop laughing at the argument of bhaee/raagee reading Gurbani:

Isn't Gurbani needed to be read by ALL. Are the bhaees not included in the humanity?????
Why any person in this world should not be allowed to read Gurbani, why????????
Do one need to do something special to deserve to read Gurbani??????????

And most funny thing is that this argument is coming from the person who clamis himself to be THE BEST ON THIS EARTH.

it sounds like History CLASS:
in such and such era in some country some sections of people were not allowed to study/learn.................... etc

i think i must stop now.........................


 

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
dear aad ji,

i was reading Bhai Gurdas ji and i just happened to go over the following: this copy thing made me laugh even more.

"Worthy are the hands of the Sikh who in the holy congregation do the Guru's work.
Who draw water, fan the sangat, grind the flour, wash the feet of Guru and drink the water therefrom;
Who copy the Guru's hymns and play the cymbals, the mirdang, a small drum, and the rebeck in the company of holy.
Worthy are the hands who bow, help in prostrating and embrace a brother Sikh;
Who eam livelihood honestly and munificently confer favour on others.
Worthy of praise are the hands of such a Sikh who by coming in touch with Guru becomes indifferent to worldly materials and lays not his eyes on another's wife or property;
Who loves another Sikh and embraces the love, devotion, and fear of God;
He effaces his ego and does not assert himself."


WE ARE LEARNING EVERYTHING FROM BHAI JI................................


i must log off now........
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
Everything to learn and so little time.He is one of those that I wish I had met. Wonderful selection that you posted for us Surinder bhenji.
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
May 25, 2005
2,935
2,950
56
United Kingdom
Cults- Dangerous approach to destabilize a community. Every faith/religion is facing and has faced this disease for centuries.


Led by certainly not bad men/women, but EVIL BEINGS.


Cults, look wonderful on the outside but very manipulating on the inside. Cult leaders are desperate to trick you into joining their belief. They are after your obedience, your time and your hard earned money. Their targets include- intelligent, idealistic, well educated, economically advantaged, intellectually or Spiritually curious people of any age, especially youth. In the beginning they target people from their own community and later extend their practice to others belonging to different faiths and religions.


These fake babas use sophisticated mind control and recruitment techniques that have been refined over time. They read all the Scriptures carefully, and are very well aware of all the existing beliefs. Beware of thinking that you are immune from cult involvement, in our community cults have hundreds and thousands and some have even millions of members around the world who once thought they were immune, and still don't know they are in a cult! To spot a cult you need to know how they work and you need to understand the techniques they use to involve others into their nets. This effort is to make the Sadh Sangat aware of the tools and techniques used by fake babas.


Tips to spot Fake Babas- :


They knowingly lie to have enlightenment. They claim to give you enlightenment at a touch.

They are stuck in the intermediate zone and start believing that they are fully enlightened. These babas may have some genuine insight but deluded in the belief of the attainment of the highest state of consciousness. To prove their point they make unbelievable stories to manipulate your mind.


They are good artful showmen. They themselves are deluded and are very good at deluding others like perfect con-artists.


They make pacca promises of miracles as well as of Salvation/Mukti.

They are merely more or less close to a bhai in Gurdwara Sahib, a pundit in a Temple, a priest in a Church, a rabbi in a Synagogue, an imam in a Mosque; but preaching all or partly the opposite……….No attainment of the Truth whatsoever.

They have nothing of their own, so will be using Scriptures from one or more religions. Some part out of which they will interpret truthfully, and the rest they twist and misinterpret to match their own self proclaimed beliefs. Let us put it this way, they have no message of their own.

They are always against some major faith/religion. Abusive in nature. Their main goal is always to condemn one or more faiths, to make room for their so-called untrue belief.

Always advertising themselves and condemning others. Their main goal is to brain wash others and turn them from an objective rational beings into their faithful followers. Their common tools while practicing their art of deception are repetitions, promises coupled with threats, chanting, some form of controlled meditation and more.

They seem overly sincere in the beginning. They start with telling the truth-this is the best. First they tell them what people already know. Then they add some bits of truth in it, and then gradually they veer off into the realms of half-truths, fantasy, and finally total and plain lies. So they lead people from what is known and accepted, to what is unknown and doubted. This is their way of weaving a seamless fabric of fact and fantasy.

They get irritated when confronted by the true believers from the faiths they are condemning. This is the time when they misinterpret others beliefs the most. You can see at that time how their art of misinterpretation is continually in a state of flux and have no sure foundation on which to anchor their hope.

They openly support all other cults. Especially those who are against the same faith they are opposing.

Their knowledge and the blessings are for sale. Will accept expensive gifts and Money from their followers Shamelessly.

They manipulate devotees even sexually. Their common targets are young women.

They make it look like a religious group, this is a common mistake people make in spotting them. Haathi ke daant- khane ke aur, dikhane ke aur.

There are some cults who operate secretively, very interesting behaviour. These recruiters claim that they cannot talk in front of your family and/or friends. They perform their act of manipulation successively- first one person from a family or a group is chosen, brainwashed, and threatened(if you leave us-you will be on the path of eternal distruction). Then they use this person to scare the rest of the family.

They mix –Emotion, Intuition and Spirituality into one word-‘feeling’, where all the three are million light years apart.

These babas generally promote the false claim that God has revealed something special to them. Their belief is generally the truth that has never before been revealed and it always supersedes and contradicts all previous revelations. They claim that the mission of all/any previous Messiah(s) was left unfinished and the world is now ready for the completion of that work through them.

Some of these babas are a step ahead, they do not claim to any new truth; instead they believe that they alone have the key to interpret the mysteries in the existing Scriptures. Their statement here will be: The Scriptures are their only acknowledged source of authority, but they are interpreted unreasonably and in a way different from that of the Real Truth.

Some of them say that the existing Scriptures are not complete. So they claim to have a true authoritative source.

Some cults claim one thing publicly but internally believe something totally different. Many such organizations call themselves true believers of the existing faiths and religions when in fact they totally or partially deny the fundamentals of that faith.

In some of these cults you can openly see the division of devotees on the basis of their economic status. In their Satsangs it is so obvious.

There was a time it was easy to spot a cult because they wore strange clothes, if not all, at least the fake baba did. Now, only some do, but mostly look like everyday people. These babas do not want you to realize that you are being recruited into a cult.

All sorts of people are involved in cults. Many cults are full of intelligent, attractive and skilled people. One of the few common denominators is that the followers were often recruited at a low point in their life. In this world of fake babas emotion is used to convert the unsuspecting.

i encourage others to add more tips.

another must read thread-http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/1422-do-we-need-intermediaries-in-sikhism.html





Forgive me please…

I think Cults are more subtle than that. I would argue GNSSJ, Namdhari's, AKJ etc are ALL cults wike elements of fakeness.
 
📌 For all latest updates, follow the Official Sikh Philosophy Network Whatsapp Channel:
Top