A shallow reading of Gurbani would make anyone see things the way they wish to see.
Claims In The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Are False
- Thread starter sikhimylife
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- Dec 21, 2010
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Seeker9 ji some comments,
Sat Sri Akal.
Okay although to be entirely honest, I am not in a position that I have sufficient knowledge of the entire Scripture to comment on where it is lacking
As I continue to learn more I will see if that changes
I suppose it could be said then that it will equip you with the tools and techniques to answer questions (note I am avoiding the use of "all") if not directly from the Scripture itself then from within when you meditate and reflect inwards?
- Dec 21, 2010
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seeker9 ji you are a smart man. The lunacy of this thread is so self evident as we see the title,
Claiming goes like this as an example of a person(s) in another religion I know of,
- Scriptures talk about elephants circling the earth, so they knew the science of satellites or geo-stationary orbiting
- Another one, our book determined the speed of light in year 700 AD
- Scriptures tell about travel from one place to another through the air, so they knew Aeronautics
- Such are claims and sometime over zealot Sikhs want to compete and start flagging or acting the same
- Does not make it right for anyone
“From this primal void, came the moon, the sun and the earth.”
''This is wrong - We know that the Earth, Moon, and the Sun need particular elements to form them – they is not pop in to existence, nor were they instantaneously''
What is the primal void? How would you define it? Lets consult a basic dictionary for this. Primal ''Relating to an early stage in evolutionary development''
''Void'' - A completely empty space. So, primal void = ''An empty space in early stage of development''.
This sentence doesn't take into consideration the time frame in which the moon, the sun, and earth were created
There is no such mention that the three were ''instantly created'' as you suggested.
In merely states they were created in what was an empty space.
From this primal void, came the four sources of creation, and the power of speech.”
''Language has emerged out of the social nature of primates that have evolved over hundreds of thousands of years – it was not create''
What are the four sources of creation? You'd be stumped. Let me tell you, Andaj (egg born), Jeraj (womb/placenta), setaj (sweat born), Outbhuj (earth born)
NO mention is made that the language is ''created'' as you have suggested. ''The four sources of creation'' are indepedant from the ''power of speech'' mentioned here (theres a comma presenting them as two separate entities in one sentence) This sentence just tells that speech bettered (''power of'') from once again, what was an empty space.
You created the vast expanse of the Universe with One Word! Hundreds of thousands of rivers began to flow.”
''Water requires hydrogen and oxygen, not available at the beginning of the universe. Oxygen had to be created through the formation of stars. There is no way “rivers” started to flow''
What you're doing is muddling science with what is a core belief. You know, giving how powerful and almightly the lord is, it can be said that ''one word'' was suffice to offset the ''hydrogen and oxygen'' interplay you're taking about to cause the rivers to flow. Sadly, neither of us can really comment on that except the lord himself.
“The limits of the created universe cannot be perceived. Its limits here and beyond cannot be perceived. Many struggle to know His limits, but His limits cannot be found. No one can know these limits.”
''We CAN perceive these expanding limits, in fact we have, and we know that The Universe is 13.7 billion years old with an increasing rate of accuracy''
The following is taken from sri GURU Granth sahib ji:
''kavan so vaylaa vakhat kavan kavan thit kavan vaar.
What was that time, and what was that moment? What was that day, and what was that date?
kavan se rutee maahu kavan jit ho-aa aakaar.
What was that season, and what was that month, when the Universe was created?
vayl na paa-ee-aa pandtee je hovai laykh puraan.
The Pandits, the religious scholars, cannot find that time, even if it is written in the Puraanas.
vakhat na paa-i-o kaadee-aa je likhan laykh kuraan.
That time is not known to the Qazis, who study the Koran.
thit vaar naa jogee jaanai rut maahu naa ko-ee.
The day and the date are not known to the Yogis, nor is the month or the season.
jaa kartaa sirthee ka-o saajay aapay jaanai so-ee.
The Creator who created this creation-only He Himself knows.''
No one really knows when the world was created except the one created it. No dating provides definate evidence as to when the world was created and how old it really is. You haven't been living 13.7 billions years to formiddably support that claim. You cannot ascertain the limits with accuracy. Period
“Creating the sun and the moon, He infused His Light into them. He created the night and the day; Wondrous are His miraculous plays.”
''The moon does not emit light, it reflects the light from the sun. We can even demonstrate how it happens''
Once again, no mention is made here that the moon emits light. You're just deluded. Learn to read.
Conclusion: You're just a pipsqueak who likes to take potshots at things you don't have a clue about.
''This is wrong - We know that the Earth, Moon, and the Sun need particular elements to form them – they is not pop in to existence, nor were they instantaneously''
What is the primal void? How would you define it? Lets consult a basic dictionary for this. Primal ''Relating to an early stage in evolutionary development''
''Void'' - A completely empty space. So, primal void = ''An empty space in early stage of development''.
This sentence doesn't take into consideration the time frame in which the moon, the sun, and earth were created
There is no such mention that the three were ''instantly created'' as you suggested.
In merely states they were created in what was an empty space.
From this primal void, came the four sources of creation, and the power of speech.”
''Language has emerged out of the social nature of primates that have evolved over hundreds of thousands of years – it was not create''
What are the four sources of creation? You'd be stumped. Let me tell you, Andaj (egg born), Jeraj (womb/placenta), setaj (sweat born), Outbhuj (earth born)
NO mention is made that the language is ''created'' as you have suggested. ''The four sources of creation'' are indepedant from the ''power of speech'' mentioned here (theres a comma presenting them as two separate entities in one sentence) This sentence just tells that speech bettered (''power of'') from once again, what was an empty space.
You created the vast expanse of the Universe with One Word! Hundreds of thousands of rivers began to flow.”
''Water requires hydrogen and oxygen, not available at the beginning of the universe. Oxygen had to be created through the formation of stars. There is no way “rivers” started to flow''
What you're doing is muddling science with what is a core belief. You know, giving how powerful and almightly the lord is, it can be said that ''one word'' was suffice to offset the ''hydrogen and oxygen'' interplay you're taking about to cause the rivers to flow. Sadly, neither of us can really comment on that except the lord himself.
“The limits of the created universe cannot be perceived. Its limits here and beyond cannot be perceived. Many struggle to know His limits, but His limits cannot be found. No one can know these limits.”
''We CAN perceive these expanding limits, in fact we have, and we know that The Universe is 13.7 billion years old with an increasing rate of accuracy''
The following is taken from sri GURU Granth sahib ji:
''kavan so vaylaa vakhat kavan kavan thit kavan vaar.
What was that time, and what was that moment? What was that day, and what was that date?
kavan se rutee maahu kavan jit ho-aa aakaar.
What was that season, and what was that month, when the Universe was created?
vayl na paa-ee-aa pandtee je hovai laykh puraan.
The Pandits, the religious scholars, cannot find that time, even if it is written in the Puraanas.
vakhat na paa-i-o kaadee-aa je likhan laykh kuraan.
That time is not known to the Qazis, who study the Koran.
thit vaar naa jogee jaanai rut maahu naa ko-ee.
The day and the date are not known to the Yogis, nor is the month or the season.
jaa kartaa sirthee ka-o saajay aapay jaanai so-ee.
The Creator who created this creation-only He Himself knows.''
No one really knows when the world was created except the one created it. No dating provides definate evidence as to when the world was created and how old it really is. You haven't been living 13.7 billions years to formiddably support that claim. You cannot ascertain the limits with accuracy. Period
“Creating the sun and the moon, He infused His Light into them. He created the night and the day; Wondrous are His miraculous plays.”
''The moon does not emit light, it reflects the light from the sun. We can even demonstrate how it happens''
Once again, no mention is made here that the moon emits light. You're just deluded. Learn to read.
Conclusion: You're just a pipsqueak who likes to take potshots at things you don't have a clue about.
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I think claims that Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji is a science manual is false as well. We have plenty of nutcases amongst the Sikh community who make wild claims about the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.
I had some lunatic come to my house who said I should not put the four volumes of the Granth Sahib (mine is the Pritam Singh CHahil translated version) together as they will start to give off some sort of power which will be fatal. lol
Now the author above is just refuting such loony's, not the Granth itself.
I had some lunatic come to my house who said I should not put the four volumes of the Granth Sahib (mine is the Pritam Singh CHahil translated version) together as they will start to give off some sort of power which will be fatal. lol
Now the author above is just refuting such loony's, not the Granth itself.
- Aug 28, 2010
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In SGGS ji one can get the feel that Gurbanee is basically Science of THE WORD
GuROO and Mathematics of GuR JOTi presented in terms words as GuRu-GuR.
It should be interseting to know that what scientists today claim to have found a GOD PARTICLE which is an indivisible element SOURCE and CAUSE of creation of every thing of the universe.The same concept already exists in Gurbanee.
Can anyone imagine how an entuty is being refered in SGGS ji as THE SINGLE WORD
GuROO itsef.? In fact in SGGS ji the reference of the word GuROO is for an indivisble
Element only.This is given as SABADu GuROO.
Thus there is conspicuous similarity between GOD PARTICLE and the concept of SABADu GuROO
The concept ofGuR JOTi is creation from this WORd GuROO as GuRu-GuR.This GuRu -GuR is a compositeEntity as EKANKAAR-OANKAAR (GuR) as CREATOR of the Universe.
Therefore one should try to comprehend the Scientific and Mathematical charateristics of this WORD GuROO then one may have very different views about How SGGS ji is THE GREATEST SCIENTIST OFTHE UNIVERSE THE only SOURCE AND CAUSE for the
creation of the universe.
I am sure many would not agree to what is being presented here.Since this is an era where there exists the best opportunity to understand the messages of SGGS ji
in a different way which may have been overlooked so far.
These views are based on my understanding from the observation of some visible
concepts.
Prakash.S.Bagga
GuROO and Mathematics of GuR JOTi presented in terms words as GuRu-GuR.
It should be interseting to know that what scientists today claim to have found a GOD PARTICLE which is an indivisible element SOURCE and CAUSE of creation of every thing of the universe.The same concept already exists in Gurbanee.
Can anyone imagine how an entuty is being refered in SGGS ji as THE SINGLE WORD
GuROO itsef.? In fact in SGGS ji the reference of the word GuROO is for an indivisble
Element only.This is given as SABADu GuROO.
Thus there is conspicuous similarity between GOD PARTICLE and the concept of SABADu GuROO
The concept ofGuR JOTi is creation from this WORd GuROO as GuRu-GuR.This GuRu -GuR is a compositeEntity as EKANKAAR-OANKAAR (GuR) as CREATOR of the Universe.
Therefore one should try to comprehend the Scientific and Mathematical charateristics of this WORD GuROO then one may have very different views about How SGGS ji is THE GREATEST SCIENTIST OFTHE UNIVERSE THE only SOURCE AND CAUSE for the
creation of the universe.
I am sure many would not agree to what is being presented here.Since this is an era where there exists the best opportunity to understand the messages of SGGS ji
in a different way which may have been overlooked so far.
These views are based on my understanding from the observation of some visible
concepts.
Prakash.S.Bagga
If on reads the whole shabad you will come across many such verses. It is simply stating that God created the universe and stars and moons planets were formed in what use to be primal void. Even if taken literally it is not wrong.
Seriously? Because you know the universe is 13.7 billion years old you know the limit of universe?
What is the area of universe please? How many planets, suns, moons, comets, asteroids are there? Please tell me the limits of the universe?
This is the tricky one. Well Sikhs believe that every thing in the universe has one light or God's light in it. It is the source of everything that there is. So this quote can be taken in that sense that sun and moon have that light in them.
You see how one can use his imagination to approve or disprove various verses from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
As mentioned before in this thread you should have read the whole shabad and the verses in context, it would have more sense.
- Aug 28, 2010
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If one can grasp the WAVE CONCEPT OF DIVINE WORDS in Gurbanee then I think one can have ,better,and different understanding about the CREATOR and CTREATIONS
of the universe.
From Gurbanee one can learn that ultimately The Universe and its creations are
some INVISIBLE, SUPER ACTIVE WAVES only.
Thus every thing of the Univese is nothing but A WAVE Only.
Gurbanee messages are ETERNAL and CENT PERSCENT TRUE but every one may not be able to understand this without the grace of SATiGuRu.
Prakash.S.Bagga
of the universe.
From Gurbanee one can learn that ultimately The Universe and its creations are
some INVISIBLE, SUPER ACTIVE WAVES only.
Thus every thing of the Univese is nothing but A WAVE Only.
Gurbanee messages are ETERNAL and CENT PERSCENT TRUE but every one may not be able to understand this without the grace of SATiGuRu.
Prakash.S.Bagga
- Jul 14, 2007
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The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji written in poetry form
has used expressions in various ways
starting with the phrase: FROM THIS PRIMAL VOID....
For example,
ਪਉਣੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਸੁੰਨੈ ਤੇ ਸਾਜੇ ॥
पउणु पाणी सुंनै ते साजे ॥
Pa▫uṇ pāṇī sunnai ṯe sāje.
From this Primal Void, He fashioned air and water.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 12
ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸੁ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
सुंनहु ब्रहमा बिसनु महेसु उपाए ॥
Sunnahu barahmā bisan mahes upā▫e.
From this Primal Void, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva issued forth.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 14
ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਸਪਤ ਸਰੋਵਰ ਥਾਪੇ ॥
सुंनहु सपत सरोवर थापे ॥
Sunnahu sapaṯ sarovar thāpe.
From this Primal Void, the seven seas were established.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 15
ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਚੰਦੁ ਸੂਰਜੁ ਗੈਣਾਰੇ ॥
सुंनहु चंदु सूरजु गैणारे ॥
Sunnahu cẖanḏ sūraj gaiṇāre.
From this Primal Void, came the moon, the sun and the earth.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 16
ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਧਰਤਿ ਅਕਾਸੁ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
सुंनहु धरति अकासु उपाए ॥
Sunnahu ḏẖaraṯ akās upā▫e.
From this Primal Void, the earth and the Akaashic Ethers were created.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 17
ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਖਾਣੀ ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਬਾਣੀ ॥
सुंनहु खाणी सुंनहु बाणी ॥
Sunnahu kẖāṇī sunnahu baṇī.
From this Primal Void, came the four sources of creation, and the power of speech.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 19
ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਰਾਤਿ ਦਿਨਸੁ ਦੁਇ ਕੀਏ ॥
सुंनहु राति दिनसु दुइ कीए ॥
Sunnahu rāṯ ḏinas ḏu▫e kī▫e.
From this Primal Void, He made both night and day;
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
Further references about Primal Void are in the following shabads:
ਖੰਡੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡੀ ਪਾਤਾਲੀ ਪੁਰੀਈ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਤਾੜੀ ਲਾਈ ਹੇ ॥੧੦॥
खंडी ब्रहमंडी पाताली पुरीई त्रिभवण ताड़ी लाई हे ॥१०॥
Kẖandī barahmandī pāṯālī purī▫ī ṯaribẖavaṇ ṯāṛī lā▫ī he. ||10||
In the galaxies and solar systems, nether regions, celestial realms and the three worlds, the Lord is in the primal void of deep absorption. ||10||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1023, Line 10
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮਿ ਰਤੇ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਤਾੜੀ ਲਾਈ ਹੇ ॥੧੬॥੩॥
नानक नामि रते बैरागी निज घरि ताड़ी लाई हे ॥१६॥३॥
Nānak nām raṯe bairāgī nij gẖar ṯāṛī lā▫ī he. ||16||3||
O Nanak, imbued with the Naam, I am detached; in the home of my own self deep within, I am absorbed in the primal void of deep meditation. ||16||3||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1023, Line 12
ਸਾਚੇ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ ਸਾਚੇ ਤਾੜੀ ਲਾਈ ਹੇ ॥੧॥
साचे जोग जुगति वीचारी साचे ताड़ी लाई हे ॥१॥
Sācẖe jog jugaṯ vīcẖārī sācẖe ṯāṛī lā▫ī he. ||1||
I contemplate the Way of Yoga, the Way of Union with the True Lord. I am truly absorbed in the primal void of deep meditation. ||1||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1023, Line 13
ਤਾੜੀ ਲਾਈ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੈ ॥
ताड़ी लाई सिरजणहारै ॥
Ŧāṛī lā▫ī sirjaṇhārai.
the Creator Lord was absorbed in the primal void.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1026, Line 14
ਤਾੜੀ ਲਾਈ ਅਪਰ ਅਪਾਰੈ ॥
ताड़ी लाई अपर अपारै ॥
Ŧāṛī lā▫ī apar apārai.
the infinite, endless Lord was absorbed in the primal void.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 10
ਸੁੰਨ ਕਲਾ ਅਪਰੰਪਰਿ ਧਾਰੀ ॥
सुंन कला अपर्मपरि धारी ॥
Sunn kalā aprampar ḏẖārī.
In the Primal Void, the Infinite Lord assumed His Power.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 12
ਅਗਨਿ ਪਾਣੀ ਜੀਉ ਜੋਤਿ ਤੁਮਾਰੀ ਸੁੰਨੇ ਕਲਾ ਰਹਾਇਦਾ ॥੨॥
अगनि पाणी जीउ जोति तुमारी सुंने कला रहाइदा ॥२॥
Agan pāṇī jī▫o joṯ ṯumārī sunne kalā rahā▫iḏā. ||2||
Your Light pervades fire, water and souls; Your Power rests in the Primal Void. ||2||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1141, Line 8
ਚੀਤਿ ਆਵੈ ਤਾਂ ਸੁੰਨਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥
चीति आवै तां सुंनि समाइआ ॥
Cẖīṯ āvai ṯāʼn sunn samā▫i▫ā.
When He comes to mind, I am absorbed in the Primal Void of God.
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
has used expressions in various ways
starting with the phrase: FROM THIS PRIMAL VOID....
For example,
ਪਉਣੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਸੁੰਨੈ ਤੇ ਸਾਜੇ ॥
पउणु पाणी सुंनै ते साजे ॥
Pa▫uṇ pāṇī sunnai ṯe sāje.
From this Primal Void, He fashioned air and water.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 12
ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸੁ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
सुंनहु ब्रहमा बिसनु महेसु उपाए ॥
Sunnahu barahmā bisan mahes upā▫e.
From this Primal Void, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva issued forth.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 14
ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਸਪਤ ਸਰੋਵਰ ਥਾਪੇ ॥
सुंनहु सपत सरोवर थापे ॥
Sunnahu sapaṯ sarovar thāpe.
From this Primal Void, the seven seas were established.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 15
ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਚੰਦੁ ਸੂਰਜੁ ਗੈਣਾਰੇ ॥
सुंनहु चंदु सूरजु गैणारे ॥
Sunnahu cẖanḏ sūraj gaiṇāre.
From this Primal Void, came the moon, the sun and the earth.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 16
ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਧਰਤਿ ਅਕਾਸੁ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
सुंनहु धरति अकासु उपाए ॥
Sunnahu ḏẖaraṯ akās upā▫e.
From this Primal Void, the earth and the Akaashic Ethers were created.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 17
ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਖਾਣੀ ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਬਾਣੀ ॥
सुंनहु खाणी सुंनहु बाणी ॥
Sunnahu kẖāṇī sunnahu baṇī.
From this Primal Void, came the four sources of creation, and the power of speech.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 19
ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਰਾਤਿ ਦਿਨਸੁ ਦੁਇ ਕੀਏ ॥
सुंनहु राति दिनसु दुइ कीए ॥
Sunnahu rāṯ ḏinas ḏu▫e kī▫e.
From this Primal Void, He made both night and day;
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
Further references about Primal Void are in the following shabads:
ਖੰਡੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡੀ ਪਾਤਾਲੀ ਪੁਰੀਈ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਤਾੜੀ ਲਾਈ ਹੇ ॥੧੦॥
खंडी ब्रहमंडी पाताली पुरीई त्रिभवण ताड़ी लाई हे ॥१०॥
Kẖandī barahmandī pāṯālī purī▫ī ṯaribẖavaṇ ṯāṛī lā▫ī he. ||10||
In the galaxies and solar systems, nether regions, celestial realms and the three worlds, the Lord is in the primal void of deep absorption. ||10||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1023, Line 10
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮਿ ਰਤੇ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਤਾੜੀ ਲਾਈ ਹੇ ॥੧੬॥੩॥
नानक नामि रते बैरागी निज घरि ताड़ी लाई हे ॥१६॥३॥
Nānak nām raṯe bairāgī nij gẖar ṯāṛī lā▫ī he. ||16||3||
O Nanak, imbued with the Naam, I am detached; in the home of my own self deep within, I am absorbed in the primal void of deep meditation. ||16||3||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1023, Line 12
ਸਾਚੇ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ ਸਾਚੇ ਤਾੜੀ ਲਾਈ ਹੇ ॥੧॥
साचे जोग जुगति वीचारी साचे ताड़ी लाई हे ॥१॥
Sācẖe jog jugaṯ vīcẖārī sācẖe ṯāṛī lā▫ī he. ||1||
I contemplate the Way of Yoga, the Way of Union with the True Lord. I am truly absorbed in the primal void of deep meditation. ||1||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1023, Line 13
ਤਾੜੀ ਲਾਈ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੈ ॥
ताड़ी लाई सिरजणहारै ॥
Ŧāṛī lā▫ī sirjaṇhārai.
the Creator Lord was absorbed in the primal void.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1026, Line 14
ਤਾੜੀ ਲਾਈ ਅਪਰ ਅਪਾਰੈ ॥
ताड़ी लाई अपर अपारै ॥
Ŧāṛī lā▫ī apar apārai.
the infinite, endless Lord was absorbed in the primal void.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 10
ਸੁੰਨ ਕਲਾ ਅਪਰੰਪਰਿ ਧਾਰੀ ॥
सुंन कला अपर्मपरि धारी ॥
Sunn kalā aprampar ḏẖārī.
In the Primal Void, the Infinite Lord assumed His Power.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1037, Line 12
ਅਗਨਿ ਪਾਣੀ ਜੀਉ ਜੋਤਿ ਤੁਮਾਰੀ ਸੁੰਨੇ ਕਲਾ ਰਹਾਇਦਾ ॥੨॥
अगनि पाणी जीउ जोति तुमारी सुंने कला रहाइदा ॥२॥
Agan pāṇī jī▫o joṯ ṯumārī sunne kalā rahā▫iḏā. ||2||
Your Light pervades fire, water and souls; Your Power rests in the Primal Void. ||2||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1141, Line 8
ਚੀਤਿ ਆਵੈ ਤਾਂ ਸੁੰਨਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥
चीति आवै तां सुंनि समाइआ ॥
Cẖīṯ āvai ṯāʼn sunn samā▫i▫ā.
When He comes to mind, I am absorbed in the Primal Void of God.
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
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The Primal Void is actually the space containing everything.
Similar to how the ''nothingness' is in fact ''everything''
Only to us, can this be described as a void, because infact it is NOT an empty Void, this is what we see or don't see!!!
Wherever there is a void, it is indeed NOT that, that is just what we think we see or don't see !!
Similar to how the ''nothingness' is in fact ''everything''
Only to us, can this be described as a void, because infact it is NOT an empty Void, this is what we see or don't see!!!
Wherever there is a void, it is indeed NOT that, that is just what we think we see or don't see !!
- Jul 14, 2007
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Here's a video I'd like to share that will explain further.
This simulations follows the formation of a galaxy like our own. It assumes a Cold Dark Matter Universe. The movie shows the distribution of gas ...
The Formation of a Milky Way like Galaxy - YouTube
Matter...anti-Matter..Void..?? imho there more "Void" than matter in the Universe..are those vast "empty" spaces between stars, galaxies really empty ?? in empty as we know empty ??
Is black hole Empty ?? Primal Void..is a English Word...translated word...Sunn is the Original...There was even a Black Hole of calcutta and it wasnt empty !! Lots of assumptions..and Lots of "primal Void" ADDED even wheres NONE mentioned in the Original. Guru nanak Ji didnt have the U-Tube and Modern Camera/photoshop/Nasa super computers to churn out VIDEOS like we can...Guru Ji only had WORDS.....to create the PICTURE in our MINDS that HE wanted us to SEE....and just as each person sees the Nasa Videos simulation videos on Utube differently...so does each reader of the words...there is NO UNIVERSAL EXACT SAME WORD PICTURE that everyone sees the same way...The One and ONLY BOTTOMLINE IS..as our Knowledge develops..grows..we UNDERSTAND GURBANI BETTER..we IMAGINE better..we "SEE" more and more what GURU NANAK ji saw and attempts to show us...a simple matter like explaining Quantum Physiscs to an aboriginal fresh out of the Amazon Jungle in sign language and gestures....is what GURU NANAK Ji faced...thats WHY Guru ji even DISCARDED all the known SCRIPTS,Vocabulary, language use, CONCEPTS etc ...simply because THOSE FAILED to address ADEQUATELY what He wanted to put across to US...but working BACKWARDS..with all the Computers and Nasa Pictures simulations etc we NOW have....we can RECONCILE the WORDS of Gurbani...and we see that they FIT PERFECTLY !!!...and we exclaim..HEY..what the computer simulations shows about Galaxies formations black holes is part of what Guru nanak ji was talking about 550 years ago....using ONLY WORDS and PAPER.
Is black hole Empty ?? Primal Void..is a English Word...translated word...Sunn is the Original...There was even a Black Hole of calcutta and it wasnt empty !! Lots of assumptions..and Lots of "primal Void" ADDED even wheres NONE mentioned in the Original. Guru nanak Ji didnt have the U-Tube and Modern Camera/photoshop/Nasa super computers to churn out VIDEOS like we can...Guru Ji only had WORDS.....to create the PICTURE in our MINDS that HE wanted us to SEE....and just as each person sees the Nasa Videos simulation videos on Utube differently...so does each reader of the words...there is NO UNIVERSAL EXACT SAME WORD PICTURE that everyone sees the same way...The One and ONLY BOTTOMLINE IS..as our Knowledge develops..grows..we UNDERSTAND GURBANI BETTER..we IMAGINE better..we "SEE" more and more what GURU NANAK ji saw and attempts to show us...a simple matter like explaining Quantum Physiscs to an aboriginal fresh out of the Amazon Jungle in sign language and gestures....is what GURU NANAK Ji faced...thats WHY Guru ji even DISCARDED all the known SCRIPTS,Vocabulary, language use, CONCEPTS etc ...simply because THOSE FAILED to address ADEQUATELY what He wanted to put across to US...but working BACKWARDS..with all the Computers and Nasa Pictures simulations etc we NOW have....we can RECONCILE the WORDS of Gurbani...and we see that they FIT PERFECTLY !!!...and we exclaim..HEY..what the computer simulations shows about Galaxies formations black holes is part of what Guru nanak ji was talking about 550 years ago....using ONLY WORDS and PAPER.
pargat singh
SPNer
- Nov 24, 2015
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If you believe that if big bang was not done by god then who did the big bang and on which part the big bang was occured. Who created that thing which was splitted into planets and stars? ?????
- Jul 20, 2012
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Guru Granth Sahib states: <cut single tuk per Terms of Service-Ishna>
SGGS p1037
Regarding the above... the OP is refuting it. But it's scientifically proven.
First of all the primal void is not simply outer space. Outer space contains *stuff* therefore it is NOT a void at all. The Primal Void is that which existed prior to creation. Formless NIRGUN - from which space AND time manifested in SARGUN form. Space, or spatiality, indicates form (x axis, y axis... 3 dimensional) therefore it is NOT the void being spoken of.
Out of the primal Void... ie: Nirgun (formlessness) in which everything is ONE - Akal Purakh, everything was manifested as Sargun reflection of the Nirgun formless Akal.
Now to the science. ALL things are made of particles, made of atoms, which are 99.9999% empty space. And what's left are electrons and a nucleus of protons and neutrons. These all break down into quarks then gluons etc. So essentially electrons and quarks (which are the smallest directly observable particles but may break down further). Through experiments they have shown that these basic subatomic particles, pop into and out of existence... seemingly randomly. They are non local. They are never hard wired into existence. Electrons can behave either as a wave (which itself is not a *thing* but instead energy travelling through something else) or a particle, depending on whether or not there is a conscious observer. The simple act of having an observer directed the outcome, and it was reproducable EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Why is this important? The Sun, the moon, the earth, the stars are all made of the same *stuff*. And they all reduce to the same basic subatomic particles.
So it's truth. From the primal void (Nirgun formless state - as we seen with the electrons above) manifests Sargun, form which makes up the planets, the sun, the moon etc.
SGGS p1037
Regarding the above... the OP is refuting it. But it's scientifically proven.
First of all the primal void is not simply outer space. Outer space contains *stuff* therefore it is NOT a void at all. The Primal Void is that which existed prior to creation. Formless NIRGUN - from which space AND time manifested in SARGUN form. Space, or spatiality, indicates form (x axis, y axis... 3 dimensional) therefore it is NOT the void being spoken of.
Out of the primal Void... ie: Nirgun (formlessness) in which everything is ONE - Akal Purakh, everything was manifested as Sargun reflection of the Nirgun formless Akal.
Now to the science. ALL things are made of particles, made of atoms, which are 99.9999% empty space. And what's left are electrons and a nucleus of protons and neutrons. These all break down into quarks then gluons etc. So essentially electrons and quarks (which are the smallest directly observable particles but may break down further). Through experiments they have shown that these basic subatomic particles, pop into and out of existence... seemingly randomly. They are non local. They are never hard wired into existence. Electrons can behave either as a wave (which itself is not a *thing* but instead energy travelling through something else) or a particle, depending on whether or not there is a conscious observer. The simple act of having an observer directed the outcome, and it was reproducable EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Why is this important? The Sun, the moon, the earth, the stars are all made of the same *stuff*. And they all reduce to the same basic subatomic particles.
So it's truth. From the primal void (Nirgun formless state - as we seen with the electrons above) manifests Sargun, form which makes up the planets, the sun, the moon etc.
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- May 9, 2006
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Also, can you clarify when you say that everything was one in Nirgun, as a "thing" would be Sargun, wouldn't it? Genuinely curious, thank you.
- Jul 20, 2012
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Well, it's more a lack for vocabulary because every way we can try to explain something we must use terms which give us physical references...
Think of Nirgun as formless (no space, no time, unchanging, everything is ONE) Not One as in a 'thing' but ONEness. We are told in Gurbani that this is the nature of Akal Purakh... ONEness. No separation. As soon as you have anything separate from this ONE, you have Sargun - Form.
But ONEness does not mean it is nothing. It's just formless... its like a computer game sitting on a disc. All of the information is there, all at once, unchanging. (not the physical disc but the information... again I am trying to use reference points we can at least grasp the concept) while Sargun is within the game world.
And yes Gurbani says, Creation was born of the light, and the light is in the creation.
If Nirgun Akal is the Light, and Nirgun = formless, ONEness, then consciousness can be used to explain it. At least as a reference point for us from this vantage point. Our own consciousness can never be quantified as taking up 'space' It's the subjective internal experience it has not form... but yet, within our dreams we can create form. Hence why I tried to use the comparison to a dream in the post about Maya.
So, the conscious creative energy which is formless, and exists beyond Sargun / form, also pervades all of Creation.... consciousness is not merely an emergent property (as shown by the double slit experiment, a conscious observer is required for matter to even manifest at all - scary as that sounds) so if it were merely an emergent property, then what consciousness existed to observe our own bodies / brains into existence??
I really only need a few lines of the following shabad but following rules... I am not sure where the shabad actually ends lol. So I just copied the whole page... and its too much to go through I usually take the second lines out but it is too much work to do with this much text. Anyway... this is why I don't like posintg this much material at once because I can't really refer to the part I wanted to...
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਗਉੜੀ ਬਾਵਨ ਅਖਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
गउड़ी बावन अखरी महला ५ ॥
Ga▫oṛī bāvan akẖrī mėhlā 5.
Gauree, Baavan Akhree ~ The 52 Letters, Fifth Mehl:
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥
सलोकु ॥
Salok.
Shalok:
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਮਾਤਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव माता गुरदेव पिता गुरदेव सुआमी परमेसुरा ॥
Gurḏev māṯā gurḏev piṯā gurḏev su▫āmī parmesurā.
The Divine Guru is my mother, the Divine Guru is my father; the Divine Guru is my Transcendent Lord and Master.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸਖਾ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਭੰਜਨੁ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਬੰਧਿਪ ਸਹੋਦਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव सखा अगिआन भंजनु गुरदेव बंधिप सहोदरा ॥
Gurḏev sakẖā agi▫ān bẖanjan gurḏev banḏẖip sahoḏarā.
The Divine Guru is my companion, the Destroyer of ignorance; the Divine Guru is my relative and brother.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਦਾਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਉਪਦੇਸੈ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਮੰਤੁ ਨਿਰੋਧਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव दाता हरि नामु उपदेसै गुरदेव मंतु निरोधरा ॥
Gurḏev ḏāṯā har nām upḏesai gurḏev manṯ niroḏẖarā.
The Divine Guru is the Giver, the Teacher of the Lord's Name. The Divine Guru is the Mantra which never fails.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਬੁਧਿ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਪਾਰਸ ਪਰਸ ਪਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव सांति सति बुधि मूरति गुरदेव पारस परस परा ॥
Gurḏev sāʼnṯ saṯ buḏẖ mūraṯ gurḏev pāras paras parā.
The Divine Guru is the Image of peace, truth and wisdom. The Divine Guru is the Philosopher's Stone - touching it, one is transformed.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਤੀਰਥੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰੋਵਰੁ ਗੁਰ ਗਿਆਨ ਮਜਨੁ ਅਪਰੰਪਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव तीरथु अम्रित सरोवरु गुर गिआन मजनु अपर्मपरा ॥
Gurḏev ṯirath amriṯ sarovar gur gi▫ān majan apramparā.
The Divine Guru is the sacred shrine of pilgrimage, and the pool of divine ambrosia; bathing in the Guru's wisdom, one experiences the Infinite.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਭਿ ਪਾਪ ਹਰਤਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਪਤਿਤ ਪਵਿਤ ਕਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव करता सभि पाप हरता गुरदेव पतित पवित करा ॥
Gurḏev karṯā sabẖ pāp harṯā gurḏev paṯiṯ paviṯ karā.
The Divine Guru is the Creator, and the Destroyer of all sins; the Divine Guru is the Purifier of sinners.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਆਦਿ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਮੰਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਿ ਉਧਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव आदि जुगादि जुगु जुगु गुरदेव मंतु हरि जपि उधरा ॥
Gurḏev āḏ jugāḏ jug jug gurḏev manṯ har jap uḏẖrā.
The Divine Guru existed at the primal beginning, throughout the ages, in each and every age. The Divine Guru is the Mantra of the Lord's Name; chanting it, one is saved.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਲਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਹਮ ਮੂੜ ਪਾਪੀ ਜਿਤੁ ਲਗਿ ਤਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव संगति प्रभ मेलि करि किरपा हम मूड़ पापी जितु लगि तरा ॥
Gurḏev sangaṯ parabẖ mel kar kirpā ham mūṛ pāpī jiṯ lag ṯarā.
O God, please be merciful to me, that I may be with the Divine Guru; I am a foolish sinner, but holding onto Him, I am carried across.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਨਮਸਕਰਾ ॥੧॥
गुरदेव सतिगुरु पारब्रहमु परमेसरु गुरदेव नानक हरि नमसकरा ॥१॥
Gurḏev saṯgur pārbarahm parmesar gurḏev Nānak har namaskarā. ||1||
The Divine Guru is the True Guru, the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord; Nanak bows in humble reverence to the Lord, the Divine Guru. ||1||
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥
सलोकु ॥
Salok.
Shalok:
ਆਪਹਿ ਕੀਆ ਕਰਾਇਆ ਆਪਹਿ ਕਰਨੈ ਜੋਗੁ ॥
आपहि कीआ कराइआ आपहि करनै जोगु ॥
Āpėh kī▫ā karā▫i▫ā āpėh karnai jog.
He Himself acts, and causes others to act; He Himself can do everything.
ਨਾਨਕ ਏਕੋ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਦੂਸਰ ਹੋਆ ਨ ਹੋਗੁ ॥੧॥
नानक एको रवि रहिआ दूसर होआ न होगु ॥१॥
Nānak eko rav rahi▫ā ḏūsar ho▫ā na hog. ||1||
O Nanak, the One Lord is pervading everywhere; there has never been any other, and there never shall be. ||1||
ਪਉੜੀ ॥
पउड़ी ॥
Pa▫oṛī.
Pauree:
ਓਅੰ ਸਾਧ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨਮਸਕਾਰੰ ॥
ओअं साध सतिगुर नमसकारं ॥
O▫aʼn sāḏẖ saṯgur namaskāraʼn.
ONG: I humbly bow in reverence to the One Universal Creator, to the Holy True Guru.
ਆਦਿ ਮਧਿ ਅੰਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੰ ॥
आदि मधि अंति निरंकारं ॥
Āḏ maḏẖ anṯ niraʼnkāraʼn.
In the beginning, in the middle, and in the end, He is the Formless Lord.
ਆਪਹਿ ਸੁੰਨ ਆਪਹਿ ਸੁਖ ਆਸਨ ॥
आपहि सुंन आपहि सुख आसन ॥
Āpėh sunn āpėh sukẖ āsan.
He Himself is in the absolute state of primal meditation; He Himself is in the seat of peace.
ਆਪਹਿ ਸੁਨਤ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਜਾਸਨ ॥
आपहि सुनत आप ही जासन ॥
Āpėh sunaṯ āp hī jāsan.
He Himself listens to His Own Praises.
ਆਪਨ ਆਪੁ ਆਪਹਿ ਉਪਾਇਓ ॥
आपन आपु आपहि उपाइओ ॥
Āpan āp āpėh upā▫i▫o.
He Himself created Himself.
ਆਪਹਿ ਬਾਪ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਮਾਇਓ ॥
आपहि बाप आप ही माइओ ॥
Āpėh bāp āp hī mā▫i▫o.
He is His Own Father, He is His Own Mother.
ਆਪਹਿ ਸੂਖਮ ਆਪਹਿ ਅਸਥੂਲਾ ॥
आपहि सूखम आपहि असथूला ॥
Āpėh sūkẖam āpėh asthūlā.
He Himself is subtle and etheric; He Himself is manifest and obvious.
ਲਖੀ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਨਾਨਕ ਲੀਲਾ ॥੧॥
लखी न जाई नानक लीला ॥१॥
Lakẖī na jā▫ī Nānak līlā. ||1||
O Nanak, His wondrous play cannot be understood. ||1||
ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਦੀਨ ਦਇਆਲਾ ॥
करि किरपा प्रभ दीन दइआला ॥
Kar kirpā parabẖ ḏīn ḏa▫i▫ālā.
O God, Merciful to the meek, please be kind to me,
ਤੇਰੇ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਮਨੁ ਹੋਇ ਰਵਾਲਾ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
तेरे संतन की मनु होइ रवाला ॥ रहाउ ॥
Ŧere sanṯan kī man ho▫e ravālā. Rahā▫o.
that my mind might become the dust of the feet of Your Saints. ||Pause||
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥
सलोकु ॥
Salok.
Shalok:
ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਆਕਾਰ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਸਰਗੁਨ ਏਕ ॥
निरंकार आकार आपि निरगुन सरगुन एक ॥
Nirankār ākār āp nirgun sargun ek.
He Himself is formless, and also formed; the One Lord is without attributes, and also with attributes.
ਏਕਹਿ ਏਕ ਬਖਾਨਨੋ ਨਾਨਕ ਏਕ ਅਨੇਕ ॥੧॥
एकहि एक बखाननो नानक एक अनेक ॥१॥
Ėkėh ek bakẖānano Nānak ek anek. ||1||
Describe the One Lord as One, and Only One; O Nanak, He is the One, and the many. ||1||
Think of Nirgun as formless (no space, no time, unchanging, everything is ONE) Not One as in a 'thing' but ONEness. We are told in Gurbani that this is the nature of Akal Purakh... ONEness. No separation. As soon as you have anything separate from this ONE, you have Sargun - Form.
But ONEness does not mean it is nothing. It's just formless... its like a computer game sitting on a disc. All of the information is there, all at once, unchanging. (not the physical disc but the information... again I am trying to use reference points we can at least grasp the concept) while Sargun is within the game world.
And yes Gurbani says, Creation was born of the light, and the light is in the creation.
If Nirgun Akal is the Light, and Nirgun = formless, ONEness, then consciousness can be used to explain it. At least as a reference point for us from this vantage point. Our own consciousness can never be quantified as taking up 'space' It's the subjective internal experience it has not form... but yet, within our dreams we can create form. Hence why I tried to use the comparison to a dream in the post about Maya.
So, the conscious creative energy which is formless, and exists beyond Sargun / form, also pervades all of Creation.... consciousness is not merely an emergent property (as shown by the double slit experiment, a conscious observer is required for matter to even manifest at all - scary as that sounds) so if it were merely an emergent property, then what consciousness existed to observe our own bodies / brains into existence??
I really only need a few lines of the following shabad but following rules... I am not sure where the shabad actually ends lol. So I just copied the whole page... and its too much to go through I usually take the second lines out but it is too much work to do with this much text. Anyway... this is why I don't like posintg this much material at once because I can't really refer to the part I wanted to...
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਗਉੜੀ ਬਾਵਨ ਅਖਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
गउड़ी बावन अखरी महला ५ ॥
Ga▫oṛī bāvan akẖrī mėhlā 5.
Gauree, Baavan Akhree ~ The 52 Letters, Fifth Mehl:
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥
सलोकु ॥
Salok.
Shalok:
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਮਾਤਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव माता गुरदेव पिता गुरदेव सुआमी परमेसुरा ॥
Gurḏev māṯā gurḏev piṯā gurḏev su▫āmī parmesurā.
The Divine Guru is my mother, the Divine Guru is my father; the Divine Guru is my Transcendent Lord and Master.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸਖਾ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਭੰਜਨੁ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਬੰਧਿਪ ਸਹੋਦਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव सखा अगिआन भंजनु गुरदेव बंधिप सहोदरा ॥
Gurḏev sakẖā agi▫ān bẖanjan gurḏev banḏẖip sahoḏarā.
The Divine Guru is my companion, the Destroyer of ignorance; the Divine Guru is my relative and brother.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਦਾਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਉਪਦੇਸੈ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਮੰਤੁ ਨਿਰੋਧਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव दाता हरि नामु उपदेसै गुरदेव मंतु निरोधरा ॥
Gurḏev ḏāṯā har nām upḏesai gurḏev manṯ niroḏẖarā.
The Divine Guru is the Giver, the Teacher of the Lord's Name. The Divine Guru is the Mantra which never fails.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਬੁਧਿ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਪਾਰਸ ਪਰਸ ਪਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव सांति सति बुधि मूरति गुरदेव पारस परस परा ॥
Gurḏev sāʼnṯ saṯ buḏẖ mūraṯ gurḏev pāras paras parā.
The Divine Guru is the Image of peace, truth and wisdom. The Divine Guru is the Philosopher's Stone - touching it, one is transformed.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਤੀਰਥੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰੋਵਰੁ ਗੁਰ ਗਿਆਨ ਮਜਨੁ ਅਪਰੰਪਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव तीरथु अम्रित सरोवरु गुर गिआन मजनु अपर्मपरा ॥
Gurḏev ṯirath amriṯ sarovar gur gi▫ān majan apramparā.
The Divine Guru is the sacred shrine of pilgrimage, and the pool of divine ambrosia; bathing in the Guru's wisdom, one experiences the Infinite.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਭਿ ਪਾਪ ਹਰਤਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਪਤਿਤ ਪਵਿਤ ਕਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव करता सभि पाप हरता गुरदेव पतित पवित करा ॥
Gurḏev karṯā sabẖ pāp harṯā gurḏev paṯiṯ paviṯ karā.
The Divine Guru is the Creator, and the Destroyer of all sins; the Divine Guru is the Purifier of sinners.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਆਦਿ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਮੰਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਿ ਉਧਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव आदि जुगादि जुगु जुगु गुरदेव मंतु हरि जपि उधरा ॥
Gurḏev āḏ jugāḏ jug jug gurḏev manṯ har jap uḏẖrā.
The Divine Guru existed at the primal beginning, throughout the ages, in each and every age. The Divine Guru is the Mantra of the Lord's Name; chanting it, one is saved.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਲਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਹਮ ਮੂੜ ਪਾਪੀ ਜਿਤੁ ਲਗਿ ਤਰਾ ॥
गुरदेव संगति प्रभ मेलि करि किरपा हम मूड़ पापी जितु लगि तरा ॥
Gurḏev sangaṯ parabẖ mel kar kirpā ham mūṛ pāpī jiṯ lag ṯarā.
O God, please be merciful to me, that I may be with the Divine Guru; I am a foolish sinner, but holding onto Him, I am carried across.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਨਮਸਕਰਾ ॥੧॥
गुरदेव सतिगुरु पारब्रहमु परमेसरु गुरदेव नानक हरि नमसकरा ॥१॥
Gurḏev saṯgur pārbarahm parmesar gurḏev Nānak har namaskarā. ||1||
The Divine Guru is the True Guru, the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord; Nanak bows in humble reverence to the Lord, the Divine Guru. ||1||
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥
सलोकु ॥
Salok.
Shalok:
ਆਪਹਿ ਕੀਆ ਕਰਾਇਆ ਆਪਹਿ ਕਰਨੈ ਜੋਗੁ ॥
आपहि कीआ कराइआ आपहि करनै जोगु ॥
Āpėh kī▫ā karā▫i▫ā āpėh karnai jog.
He Himself acts, and causes others to act; He Himself can do everything.
ਨਾਨਕ ਏਕੋ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਦੂਸਰ ਹੋਆ ਨ ਹੋਗੁ ॥੧॥
नानक एको रवि रहिआ दूसर होआ न होगु ॥१॥
Nānak eko rav rahi▫ā ḏūsar ho▫ā na hog. ||1||
O Nanak, the One Lord is pervading everywhere; there has never been any other, and there never shall be. ||1||
ਪਉੜੀ ॥
पउड़ी ॥
Pa▫oṛī.
Pauree:
ਓਅੰ ਸਾਧ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨਮਸਕਾਰੰ ॥
ओअं साध सतिगुर नमसकारं ॥
O▫aʼn sāḏẖ saṯgur namaskāraʼn.
ONG: I humbly bow in reverence to the One Universal Creator, to the Holy True Guru.
ਆਦਿ ਮਧਿ ਅੰਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੰ ॥
आदि मधि अंति निरंकारं ॥
Āḏ maḏẖ anṯ niraʼnkāraʼn.
In the beginning, in the middle, and in the end, He is the Formless Lord.
ਆਪਹਿ ਸੁੰਨ ਆਪਹਿ ਸੁਖ ਆਸਨ ॥
आपहि सुंन आपहि सुख आसन ॥
Āpėh sunn āpėh sukẖ āsan.
He Himself is in the absolute state of primal meditation; He Himself is in the seat of peace.
ਆਪਹਿ ਸੁਨਤ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਜਾਸਨ ॥
आपहि सुनत आप ही जासन ॥
Āpėh sunaṯ āp hī jāsan.
He Himself listens to His Own Praises.
ਆਪਨ ਆਪੁ ਆਪਹਿ ਉਪਾਇਓ ॥
आपन आपु आपहि उपाइओ ॥
Āpan āp āpėh upā▫i▫o.
He Himself created Himself.
ਆਪਹਿ ਬਾਪ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਮਾਇਓ ॥
आपहि बाप आप ही माइओ ॥
Āpėh bāp āp hī mā▫i▫o.
He is His Own Father, He is His Own Mother.
ਆਪਹਿ ਸੂਖਮ ਆਪਹਿ ਅਸਥੂਲਾ ॥
आपहि सूखम आपहि असथूला ॥
Āpėh sūkẖam āpėh asthūlā.
He Himself is subtle and etheric; He Himself is manifest and obvious.
ਲਖੀ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਨਾਨਕ ਲੀਲਾ ॥੧॥
लखी न जाई नानक लीला ॥१॥
Lakẖī na jā▫ī Nānak līlā. ||1||
O Nanak, His wondrous play cannot be understood. ||1||
ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਦੀਨ ਦਇਆਲਾ ॥
करि किरपा प्रभ दीन दइआला ॥
Kar kirpā parabẖ ḏīn ḏa▫i▫ālā.
O God, Merciful to the meek, please be kind to me,
ਤੇਰੇ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਮਨੁ ਹੋਇ ਰਵਾਲਾ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
तेरे संतन की मनु होइ रवाला ॥ रहाउ ॥
Ŧere sanṯan kī man ho▫e ravālā. Rahā▫o.
that my mind might become the dust of the feet of Your Saints. ||Pause||
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥
सलोकु ॥
Salok.
Shalok:
ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਆਕਾਰ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਸਰਗੁਨ ਏਕ ॥
निरंकार आकार आपि निरगुन सरगुन एक ॥
Nirankār ākār āp nirgun sargun ek.
He Himself is formless, and also formed; the One Lord is without attributes, and also with attributes.
ਏਕਹਿ ਏਕ ਬਖਾਨਨੋ ਨਾਨਕ ਏਕ ਅਨੇਕ ॥੧॥
एकहि एक बखाननो नानक एक अनेक ॥१॥
Ėkėh ek bakẖānano Nānak ek anek. ||1||
Describe the One Lord as One, and Only One; O Nanak, He is the One, and the many. ||1||
- Jul 20, 2012
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I ran out of characters! It only allows 3000 max!
ਪਉੜੀ ॥
पउड़ी ॥
Pa▫oṛī.
Pauree:
ਓਅੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕੀਓ ਅਕਾਰਾ ॥
ओअं गुरमुखि कीओ अकारा ॥
O▫aʼn gurmukẖ kī▫o akārā.
ONG: The One Universal Creator created the Creation through the Word of the Primal Guru.
ਏਕਹਿ ਸੂਤਿ ਪਰੋਵਨਹਾਰਾ ॥
एकहि सूति परोवनहारा ॥
Ėkėh sūṯ parovanhārā.
He strung it upon His one thread.
ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਬਿਸਥਾਰੰ ॥
भिंन भिंन त्रै गुण बिसथारं ॥
Bẖinn bẖinn ṯarai guṇ bisthāraʼn.
He created the diverse expanse of the three qualities.
ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਤੇ ਸਰਗੁਨ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਾਰੰ ॥
निरगुन ते सरगुन द्रिसटारं ॥
Nirgun ṯe sargun ḏaristāraʼn.
From formless, He appeared as form.
ਸਗਲ ਭਾਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਉਪਾਇਓ ॥
सगल भाति करि करहि उपाइओ ॥
Sagal bẖāṯ kar karahi upā▫i▫o.
The Creator has created the creation of all sorts.
ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਮਨ ਮੋਹੁ ਬਢਾਇਓ ॥
जनम मरन मन मोहु बढाइओ ॥
Janam maran man moh badẖā▫i▫o.
The attachment of the mind has led to birth and death.
ਦੁਹੂ ਭਾਤਿ ਤੇ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰਾਰਾ ॥
दुहू भाति ते आपि निरारा ॥
Ḏuhū bẖāṯ ṯe āp nirārā.
He Himself is above both, untouched and unaffected.
ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰਾ ॥੨॥
नानक अंतु न पारावारा ॥२॥
Nānak anṯ na pārāvārā. ||2||
O Nanak, He has no end or limitation. ||2||
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥
सलोकु ॥
Salok.
Shalok:
ਸੇਈ ਸਾਹ ਭਗਵੰਤ ਸੇ ਸਚੁ ਸੰਪੈ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਸਿ ॥
सेई साह भगवंत से सचु स्मपै हरि रासि ॥
Se▫ī sāh bẖagvanṯ se sacẖ sampai har rās.
Those who gather Truth, and the riches of the Lord's Name, are rich and very fortunate.
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਸੁਚਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਿਹ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੈ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੧॥
नानक सचु सुचि पाईऐ तिह संतन कै पासि ॥१॥
Nānak sacẖ sucẖ pā▫ī▫ai ṯih sanṯan kai pās. ||1||
O Nanak, truthfulness and purity are obtained from Saints such as these. ||1||
ਪਵੜੀ ॥
पवड़ी ॥
Pavṛī.
Pauree:
ਸਸਾ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਸੋਊ ॥
ससा सति सति सति सोऊ ॥
Sasā saṯ saṯ saṯ so▫ū.
SASSA: True, True, True is that Lord.
ਸਤਿ ਪੁਰਖ ਤੇ ਭਿੰਨ ਨ ਕੋਊ ॥
सति पुरख ते भिंन न कोऊ ॥
Saṯ purakẖ ṯe bẖinn na ko▫ū.
No one is separate from the True Primal Lord.
ਸੋਊ ਸਰਨਿ ਪਰੈ ਜਿਹ ਪਾਯੰ ॥
सोऊ सरनि परै जिह पायं ॥
So▫ū saran parai jih pā▫yaʼn.
They alone enter the Lord's Sanctuary, whom the Lord inspires to enter.
ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਇ ਸੁਨਾਯੰ ॥
सिमरि सिमरि गुन गाइ सुनायं ॥
Simar simar gun gā▫e sunā▫yaʼn.
Meditating, meditating in remembrance, they sing and preach the Glorious Praises of the Lord.
ਸੰਸੈ ਭਰਮੁ ਨਹੀ ਕਛੁ ਬਿਆਪਤ ॥
संसै भरमु नही कछु बिआपत ॥
Sansai bẖaram nahī kacẖẖ bi▫āpaṯ.
Doubt and skepticism do not affect them at all.
ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪੁ ਤਾਹੂ ਕੋ ਜਾਪਤ ॥
प्रगट प्रतापु ताहू को जापत ॥
Pargat parṯāp ṯāhū ko jāpaṯ.
They behold the manifest glory of the Lord.
ਸੋ ਸਾਧੂ ਇਹ ਪਹੁਚਨਹਾਰਾ ॥
सो साधू इह पहुचनहारा ॥
So sāḏẖū ih pahucẖanhārā.
They are the Holy Saints - they reach this destination.
ਨਾਨਕ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਸਦ ਬਲਿਹਾਰਾ ॥੩॥
नानक ता कै सद बलिहारा ॥३॥
Nānak ṯā kai saḏ balihārā. ||3||
Nanak is forever a sacrifice to them. ||3||
If there is more to the shabad on the next page let me know and Ill post more... I'm not really sure how to tell where it ends...
ਪਉੜੀ ॥
पउड़ी ॥
Pa▫oṛī.
Pauree:
ਓਅੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕੀਓ ਅਕਾਰਾ ॥
ओअं गुरमुखि कीओ अकारा ॥
O▫aʼn gurmukẖ kī▫o akārā.
ONG: The One Universal Creator created the Creation through the Word of the Primal Guru.
ਏਕਹਿ ਸੂਤਿ ਪਰੋਵਨਹਾਰਾ ॥
एकहि सूति परोवनहारा ॥
Ėkėh sūṯ parovanhārā.
He strung it upon His one thread.
ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਬਿਸਥਾਰੰ ॥
भिंन भिंन त्रै गुण बिसथारं ॥
Bẖinn bẖinn ṯarai guṇ bisthāraʼn.
He created the diverse expanse of the three qualities.
ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਤੇ ਸਰਗੁਨ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਾਰੰ ॥
निरगुन ते सरगुन द्रिसटारं ॥
Nirgun ṯe sargun ḏaristāraʼn.
From formless, He appeared as form.
ਸਗਲ ਭਾਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਉਪਾਇਓ ॥
सगल भाति करि करहि उपाइओ ॥
Sagal bẖāṯ kar karahi upā▫i▫o.
The Creator has created the creation of all sorts.
ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਮਨ ਮੋਹੁ ਬਢਾਇਓ ॥
जनम मरन मन मोहु बढाइओ ॥
Janam maran man moh badẖā▫i▫o.
The attachment of the mind has led to birth and death.
ਦੁਹੂ ਭਾਤਿ ਤੇ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰਾਰਾ ॥
दुहू भाति ते आपि निरारा ॥
Ḏuhū bẖāṯ ṯe āp nirārā.
He Himself is above both, untouched and unaffected.
ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰਾ ॥੨॥
नानक अंतु न पारावारा ॥२॥
Nānak anṯ na pārāvārā. ||2||
O Nanak, He has no end or limitation. ||2||
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥
सलोकु ॥
Salok.
Shalok:
ਸੇਈ ਸਾਹ ਭਗਵੰਤ ਸੇ ਸਚੁ ਸੰਪੈ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਸਿ ॥
सेई साह भगवंत से सचु स्मपै हरि रासि ॥
Se▫ī sāh bẖagvanṯ se sacẖ sampai har rās.
Those who gather Truth, and the riches of the Lord's Name, are rich and very fortunate.
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਸੁਚਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਿਹ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੈ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੧॥
नानक सचु सुचि पाईऐ तिह संतन कै पासि ॥१॥
Nānak sacẖ sucẖ pā▫ī▫ai ṯih sanṯan kai pās. ||1||
O Nanak, truthfulness and purity are obtained from Saints such as these. ||1||
ਪਵੜੀ ॥
पवड़ी ॥
Pavṛī.
Pauree:
ਸਸਾ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਸੋਊ ॥
ससा सति सति सति सोऊ ॥
Sasā saṯ saṯ saṯ so▫ū.
SASSA: True, True, True is that Lord.
ਸਤਿ ਪੁਰਖ ਤੇ ਭਿੰਨ ਨ ਕੋਊ ॥
सति पुरख ते भिंन न कोऊ ॥
Saṯ purakẖ ṯe bẖinn na ko▫ū.
No one is separate from the True Primal Lord.
ਸੋਊ ਸਰਨਿ ਪਰੈ ਜਿਹ ਪਾਯੰ ॥
सोऊ सरनि परै जिह पायं ॥
So▫ū saran parai jih pā▫yaʼn.
They alone enter the Lord's Sanctuary, whom the Lord inspires to enter.
ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਇ ਸੁਨਾਯੰ ॥
सिमरि सिमरि गुन गाइ सुनायं ॥
Simar simar gun gā▫e sunā▫yaʼn.
Meditating, meditating in remembrance, they sing and preach the Glorious Praises of the Lord.
ਸੰਸੈ ਭਰਮੁ ਨਹੀ ਕਛੁ ਬਿਆਪਤ ॥
संसै भरमु नही कछु बिआपत ॥
Sansai bẖaram nahī kacẖẖ bi▫āpaṯ.
Doubt and skepticism do not affect them at all.
ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪੁ ਤਾਹੂ ਕੋ ਜਾਪਤ ॥
प्रगट प्रतापु ताहू को जापत ॥
Pargat parṯāp ṯāhū ko jāpaṯ.
They behold the manifest glory of the Lord.
ਸੋ ਸਾਧੂ ਇਹ ਪਹੁਚਨਹਾਰਾ ॥
सो साधू इह पहुचनहारा ॥
So sāḏẖū ih pahucẖanhārā.
They are the Holy Saints - they reach this destination.
ਨਾਨਕ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਸਦ ਬਲਿਹਾਰਾ ॥੩॥
नानक ता कै सद बलिहारा ॥३॥
Nānak ṯā kai saḏ balihārā. ||3||
Nanak is forever a sacrifice to them. ||3||
If there is more to the shabad on the next page let me know and Ill post more... I'm not really sure how to tell where it ends...
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