Components Of Your Faith

[chamkaur brar]

chamkaur brar ji

I have the highest respect for you. So my concern comes from respect not negativity. Please post an English summary of the Punjabi. English is the official language of the forum. You can send it to me by private message and I will post it right under the Punjabi.

We are trying to accommodate Punjabi readers, and when we do that, we ask for a translation or English summary as a rule.

Otherwise, I will need to delete the post. And a deletion will be a big loss to us all. Thanks spnadmin

I donot have you your private contact email. Please if you can convert into english and punjabi then it will be more conveniebt for most of the people.
Actualy it happend when I cut and paste of that shabad then it didnot allow me write in english.. I'm computer illiterate person. If you can do wharever it is good for our members then do it.
Chamkaur

 

[Ambarsaria]

I donot have you your private contact email. Please if you can convert into english and punjabi then it will be more conveniebt for most of the people.
Actualy it happend when I cut and paste of that shabad then it didnot allow me write in english.. I'm computer illiterate person. If you can do wharever it is good for our members then do it.
Chamkaur

Chamkaur brar ji if you can give me the page number reference from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji I can do essence arth (translation in English) per Pro. Sahib Singh ji's GuruGranth Darpan in Punjabi.

If it helps.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[manj kr]

Dear all, wjkk wjkf,
I think my faith stems from the head and the heart. I have still learning alot about sikhi but I think to me, the true meaning of sikhi is truth. It is not just about reading the bani, but understanding the meaning, putting that meaning into your own daily life.
I have true faith in the guru and if it wasnt for the life's hardships I think I would have no faith, to be honest. I am trying to create a connection with the guruji and to believe that jaisa bhi hai teek hai. these things that we fight over and call our own are never and will never be our things.
i suppose my formula is to try and destroy our own internal enemies, do good, be truthful and fight against injustice.
Rab Rakha.

 

[chamkaur brar]

SRi Ambarsariaji, with great respect,
Page of GSSG is 526 writtten by Bhagat Trilochan ji. But Bhaee Sahib Singh himself admitted that his interpretation is not 100% correct. There are some defficencies. But i myself always dpend upon his interpreatation. in certain cases like Reincarnation, MATHE DE BHAGetcand EKA MAEE JUGAT VIAEE, prof Sahib is little bit distacted. i will write you later why i say that. i have great respect for prof. sahib. His work is only which lead me to unterpret Gurbani. if you want you canlisten to SARBJIT SINGH DHOONDA'S katha from BANGLA SAHIB or look into regulary weekly LEKHS by Bhupinderjit Singh in Shere- Punjab printed from New York. IM in California,San diego. I will probably give you his web site.i donot have right now
Dr .Brar

 

[spnadmin]

I donot have you your private contact email. Please if you can convert into english and punjabi then it will be more conveniebt for most of the people.
Actualy it happend when I cut and paste of that shabad then it didnot allow me write in english.. I'm computer illiterate person. If you can do wharever it is good for our members then do it.
Chamkaur

I understand. I will figure something out. Thanks for trying.

Also, we are talking about a passage from Professor Sahib Singh's Darpan, which has no English translation, and not from SGGS.

 

[x Kulbir Singh]

Great amount of insight in this post. :sippingcoffeemunda:

 

[Ambarsaria]

SRi Ambarsariaji, with great respect,
Page of GSSG is 526 writtten by Bhagat Trilochan ji. But Bhaee Sahib Singh himself admitted that his interpretation is not 100% correct. There are some defficencies. But i myself always dpend upon his interpreatation. in certain cases like Reincarnation, MATHE DE BHAGetcand EKA MAEE JUGAT VIAEE, prof Sahib is little bit distacted. i will write you later why i say that. i have great respect for prof. sahib. His work is only which lead me to unterpret Gurbani. if you want you canlisten to SARBJIT SINGH DHOONDA'S katha from BANGLA SAHIB or look into regulary weekly LEKHS by Bhupinderjit Singh in Shere- Punjab printed from New York. IM in California,San diego. I will probably give you his web site.i donot have right now
Dr .Brar

Chamkaur brar ji here below my attempt at the interpretation (English translation portion) based on Professor Sahib Singh ji's GuruGranth Darpan,

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ArQ:- hy BYx! (myry leI Ardws kr) mYƒ kdy prmwqmw dw nwm nwh Bu`ly (qW ju AMq vyly BI auh prmwqmw hI cyqy Awvy) [rhwau[
Hai sister pray that I don’t forget God.


Ambarsaria note: Because those who do remember other than God (consider 4 examples based on Brahmin fraternity mis-beliefs of the time):

ਅੰਿਤਕਾਿਲਜੋਲਛਮੀਿਸਮਰੈਐਸੀਿਚੰਤਾਮਿਹਜੇਮਰੈ॥ਸਰਪਜੋਿਨਵਿਲਵਿਲਅਉਤਰੈ॥੧॥
jo mnu`K mrn vyly Dn-pdwrQ cyqy krdw hY qy iesy soc ivc hI mr jWdw hY, auh muV muV s`p dI jUny pYNdw hY [1[
The person near death, who is money (maya) centric is reborn as a serpent (serpent to protect wealth as a symbolism).

ਅੰਿਤਕਾਿਲਜੋਇਸਤਰ੍ੀਿਸਮਰੈਐਸੀਿਚੰਤਾਮਿਹਜੇਮਰੈ॥ਬੇਸਵਾਜੋਿਨਵਿਲਵਿਲਅਉਤਰੈ॥੨॥
jo mnu`K mrn smyN (AwpxI) iesqRI ƒ hI Xwd krdw hY qy iesy Xwd ivc pRwx iqAwg dyNdw hY, auh muV muV vysvw dw jnm lYNdw hY [2[
The person who keeps
The person near death, who thinks of the wife (kam) is born a prostitute.

ਅੰਿਤਕਾਿਲਜੋਲਿੜਕੇਿਸਮਰੈਐਸੀਿਚੰਤਾਮਿਹਜੇਮਰੈ॥ਸੂਕਰਜੋਿਨਵਿਲਵਿਲਅਉਤਰੈ॥੩॥
jo mnu`K AMq vyly (Awpxy) pu`qRW ƒ hI Xwd krdw hY qy pu`qRW ƒ Xwd krdw krdw hI mr jWdw hY, auh sUr dI jUny muV muV jMmdw hY [3[
The person near death, who thinks of his sons is reborn a pig (dirty wild pigs known to having large litter leading to frustration that you will not ask for family/sons again).

ਅੰਿਤਕਾਿਲਜੋਮੰਦਰਿਸਮਰੈਐਸੀਿਚੰਤਾਮਿਹਜੇਮਰੈ॥ਪਰ੍ੇਤਜੋਿਨਵਿਲਵਿਲਅਉਤਰੈ॥੪॥
jo mnu`K A^Ir vyly (Awpxy) Gr mhl-mwVIAW dy hwhuky lYNdw hY qy iehnW hwhuikAW ivc srIr C`f jWdw hY, auh muV muV pRyq bxdw hY [4[
The person near death, who thinks of his beautiful houses and possessions dies sighing about the loss of the same and is born as a ghost (with no physical form or possessions).

ਅੰਿਤਕਾਿਲਨਾਰਾਇਣੁਿਸਮਰੈਐਸੀਿਚੰਤਾਮਿਹਜੇਮਰੈ॥ਬਦਿਤਿਤਲੋਚਨੁਤੇਨਰਮੁਕਤਾਪੀਤੰਬਰੁਵਾਕੇਿਰਦੈਬਸੈ॥੫॥੨॥{ਪੰਨਾ 526}

iqRlocn AwKdw hY—jo mnu`K AMq smyN prmwqmw ƒ Xwd krdw hY qy ies Xwd ivc itikAw hoieAw hI colw iqAwgdw hY, auh mnu`K (Dn, iesqRI, pu`qr qy Gr Awidk dy moh qoN) Awzwd ho jWdw hY, aus dy ihrdy ivc prmwqmw Awp Aw v`sdw hY [5[2[
Tirlochan says, the person who remembers God (versus the four examples before), he is freed from money, spouse (kam), sons (attachment), and earthly possessions while finding the God residing well within their heart.


Sat Sri Akal.

PS: I am finding that while cutting and pating sometimes font coversion causes Punjabi Ank (word) errors, I have no solution for it. Appreciate any guidance specific to posting lines out Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to this forum. Please flag any errors or correct if you can. I will appreciate it.

 

[spnadmin]

Ambarsaria ji

Thanks for your efforts. This is the passage that needs translation too! The one I asked chamkaur brar ji about. Will you be able to do it?

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/34299-components-of-your-faith-2.html#post141672

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ambarsaria ji

Thanks for your efforts. This is the passage that needs translation too! The one I asked chamkaur brar ji about. Will you be able to do it?

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/34299-components-of-your-faith-2.html#post141672

The shabad is the same as reference provided by chamkaur brar ji.

I reviewed the translation and it is not from Prof. Sahib Singh ji's Guru Granth Darpan. If I were to mark the two translations out of 100. I will give Prof. Sahib Singh ji 100% and the one quoted by Chamkaur Brar ji, about 45%. AS a result I have no interest in translating the Punjabi translation in Chamkaur Brar ji's post.

I believe I have read enough through Prof. Sahib Singh ji's preambles and guidance to be attune to his style.

If it does not I will need to know the source and complete Sri Guru Granth Sahib writings from the author in chamkaur bra ji's quoted translation.

Hope that answers the request.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[spnadmin]

Ambarsaria ji

Thanks very much. All is clear.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

AMBARSARIA Ji /CHAMKAUR BRAR Ji,
In the SHABAD under consideration the most important meanings are related to the imterpretation of words ANT KAALi. In most of the cases the meaning of this composite is taken as "NEAR DEATH".Prof Sahib Singh Ji has also taken the same meaning .
This meaning of the words ANT KAALi in this way is somewhat mismatching Gurbaani Concept.
A second view based on the consideration of the grammer of the composite words could also be considered as a possible interpretation.Grammatical consideration shows the words ANT KAALi refers to DURATION OF PERIOD WHERE IN THE TIME OF DEATH IS FIXED.Now this period is related to the period of CONCEPTION to DEATH.
This meaning would signify the need of connecting oneself with Gurbaani in this particlar duration ANT KAALi{This Duration is certainly different for everyone}

This is only one of the views.This is also subject to analysis by the readers

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Adi Nanaki]

Sat Nam,
I find it easy to apply Guru's words to my life. I simply relate to the daily Hukam from the Golden Temple. It fits with what is going on every time.
Blessings

 

[Ambarsaria]

AMBARSARIA Ji /CHAMKAUR BRAR Ji,
In the SHABAD under consideration the most important meanings are related to the imterpretation of words ANT KAALi. In most of the cases the meaning of this composite is taken as "NEAR DEATH".Prof Sahib Singh Ji has also taken the same meaning .
This meaning of the words ANT KAALi in this way is somewhat mismatching Gurbaani Concept.
A second view based on the consideration of the grammer of the composite words could also be considered as a possible interpretation.Grammatical consideration shows the words ANT KAALi refers to DURATION OF PERIOD WHERE IN THE TIME OF DEATH IS FIXED.Now this period is related to the period of CONCEPTION to DEATH.
This meaning would signify the need of connecting oneself with Gurbaani in this particlar duration ANT KAALi{This Duration is certainly different for everyone}

This is only one of the views.This is also subject to analysis by the readers

Prakash.S.Bagga

Parkash s. bagga ji Prof. Sahib Singh ji has himself addressed all this. He did not suggest alternate translation other than it is "detractor who were panning this during his time". I have not interest in looking at the trees and not seeing the forest.

When I read the writings in Gurbani I read these with respect to all writers and the respected people with brain development beyond us. They paint a picture for us and everyone is going to see it with their own eyes. Some with both eyes open in bliss, some with one eye open and other with both eyes closed and pretend and subsequently create self doubt in the sangat.

I very humbly suggest that get out of the Shabad what makes you happy. I am quite happy with what has been posted by me in the following,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/34299-components-of-your-faith-5.html#post141728

Another way to look at the essence of the shabad is the negative connotation that I can paraphrase quite bluntly as follows for us all,

" If having spent one's whole life and reaching old age one is still stuck in examples like Bhagat Tirlochan has written, one is definitely a very "bhoolia bhatkia " (misled and lost) soul". Time to wake up! This was composed almost 450+ years ago."

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Sat Nam,
I find it easy to apply Guru's words to my life. I simply relate to the daily Hukam from the Golden Temple. It fits with what is going on every time.
Blessings

Adi Nanki you it is part of being blissful to take something good out of every shabad in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. My mom for ever says "Aaj bahut sohna vak niqlia" (Guru's Hukam truly was very beautiful today). Never in my life I heard her say it any different. I used to say even when I did not have the faculty to understand deeper meanings, but Mom the whole Gurbani is good and wonderful.

May God bless you.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

AMBARSARIA Ji,
I simply presented a view according to grammatical considerations of the composite word ANT KAALi.I no where said that this is the only or the best iinterpretation.Anyview can be accepted or rejected this depends on readers.Yes ,of course, if anything wrong can be pointed out.
The way you have expressed shows there is no need for any views.Every one should remain happy with what feels O.K.
I am sorry for any inconvinience on account of my views.
With best wishes

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Yes ,AMBARSARIA Ji.
Your negative connotation of the SHABAD appears to be more correct and relevent beacause of its answer in the last concluding line of the SHABAD.

With thanks

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

The whole GURBAANI is wonderful and blissful.There is a PAURI no17 THIT VAAR RAAGu GAURI pp300 a beautiful description of the woderful effect of Gurbaani.
I would request SPNADMIN Ji to diplay this in Gurmukhi /English for the readers

The quote is "KOEE GAAWEE KO SUNNEE KOEE KAREE BICHAAR.........

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[inder panchii]

believed blindly in gurus as gods till the age of 10 as preached by parents,, then studied science and started relating religion to science and logic.. there were times when the faith was completely shaken... then more and more reciting of gurbani with meaning brought me more closer to basic sikh values... till now i am using intellect as my faith in religion rather than heart only.. but in tough times logic fails and i have to bow in front of god to save me... there all logic seem failed and only heart rules :grinningkudi: and there are still changes going on...

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

INDER KAUR Ji,
DIVINE GREETINGS
You are on the right path and your approach is pragmatic.I am sure with your educational background you should ba able to grasp Gurbaani messages.Keep on Knowing the intrinsic meanings of the Gurbaani words GURU and GUR this would be
a MASTER. KEY to the Gurbaani understanding for journey from INTELLECT to HEART.
With best Wishes

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Tejwant Singh]

believed blindly in gurus as gods till the age of 10 as preached by parents,, then studied science and started relating religion to science and logic.. there were times when the faith was completely shaken... then more and more reciting of gurbani with meaning brought me more closer to basic sikh values... till now i am using intellect as my faith in religion rather than heart only.. but in tough times logic fails and i have to bow in front of god to save me... there all logic seem failed and only heart rules :grinningkudi: and there are still changes going on...

Inderjit Kaur ji,

Guru Fateh.

Your interesting journey is commendable. Science - which is nothing but an observational tool- made you shed your ugly plumage of a Gurbani parrot and made you give up believing in nonsensical things like miracles etc etc that are repeated by the Granthis, Katahavachaks, and Kirtani Jathas daily in the Gurdwaras because these people's whole objective is for not to let people think on their own but make them believe in what they are saying only for the sake of money. There is a lot of Me-ism involved here on their part, hence the true message of Gurbani is put aside.

We, as lazy beings also find it easier this way because most of us go to Gurdwaras to feel good where as Gurbani teaches us that only by doing good we can feel good. Thus, the transitory feel good feeling that we get from the above so called orators of Gurbani ends the moment we leave the premises.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru is a tool box that gives us the tools to develop our reasoning, critical thinking, sense of observation, open mindedness among others.

Unlike most of the other religious scriptures,Gurbani also shows us that heart and mind are not like water and oil that can not be mixed but to the contrary. It teaches us how to mingle both to find Sehaj- Gurmat fulcrum- within.

So, your inner tug of war between your intellect and heart is quite understandable and is necessary. Your persistence in understanding the true message of Gurbani will help you find the sangam between the two.

After all Sikhi is a journey which itself is a destination. With every breath, every new self discovery, we reach one of many platforms of our destination and then the journey continues till the last breath.

Enjoy your journey.

Regards

Tejwant Singh