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Controversy Surrounding Prof Darshan Singh Ji

spnadmin

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Sangat ji
Thanks for all the input. Can someone point me in the right direction. I need to know if above mentioned link (previously posted by me) has got the right translations (word by word) specially in part 5. If not then what and where can I find the right translations of the same? If these are the right translations then Can we even think our Guru ji has put these stazas or sentences or words in a Pothy or Granth?

**Please note that I am only a humble sikh not affliated with anyone just a common man!!
Thanks
Veer

Veerpartapkhalsa ji

Personally -- I can't answer your question exactly. Here is the doubtful part. At this stage in the controversy -- key chapters in Bachitar Natak Have been translated into English by Professor Jodhi Singh, according to "panthic" news reports. However one cannot seem to locate them. I have tried to do that.

Supposedly these translations will show that Professor Darshan is a heretic, among other things.

It is said that Professor Darshan has misquoted Professor Jodhi Singh who is said to have translated the lines/chapters under dispute into English. Where are these translations so that others can evaluate the arguments on each side?

Things become peculiar when Professor Darshan says that he has quoted Professor Jodhi and Professor Jodhi now says that he has been misquoted. Then news story after news story is published and no one in the reading audience -- and I doubt most if not all of the individuals writing these stories -- have read any of the translations in question.

By the time December rolls around how will we know which draft of the "translation" will be used in testimony.

On top of all of this - the parts translated (so to speak) are from Bachitar Natak. But the allegations against Professor Darshan have for some time now extended well beyond disputed passages in Bachitar Natak. And as I have noted, at the risk of repeating myself, extend to claims that he is an atheist and a communist and more. Which has nothing to do with Bachitar Natak.

I too am just a plain person looking at this unwinding dispute and asking myself why it has the look and sound of the debates of early Christianity? And why actors in this story are behaving like the Vatican? Final question not yet addressed: What are the specific heresies? These can only be judged by showing heresies committed against Sri Guru Granth Sahib.
 

spnadmin

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This information from another mailing list to which I am subscribed. The entire message is not included; only the parts that are relevant to this discussion.

....
"About 2.5 years back, GS Lamba had cooked up story and case against Prof Darshan Singh. CASE was brought to Vedanti and Iqbal Singh and company. But was scuttled at last moment as evidence that Badal had accepted Rs 8 lakh from Indian Tobacco Corporation surfaced in ITC's annual report. So everything was put into cold storage.


Next time around after 6-7 month in April 2008 Lamba brought out another case. Also at Badal's Gurgaon and Baba Virsa Singh Mehrauli base new rehat Maryada was formulated with mix of Taksaal, AKJ and Nanaksar samprada and blessing of Sukhbir. Also evidence had surfaced that Jathedar Patna Iqbal Singh was third convenor and Lamba second convenor of annual symposium by Rashtriya Sikh Sangat an offshoot of right wing RSS surfaced. When at Akal Takht to discuss second case against Prof Darshan Singh, Vedanti humilated Iqbal Singh Patna Jathedar as RSS agent. As Sukhbir can only control so much. SGPC task force pushed out Iqbal Patna out of Akal Takht. Then after 4 months during Manmohan Singh's confidence motion, Congress had paid money to Iqbal to issue hukamnama in favour of PM Manmohan Singh to akali MP.s BJP/RSS/Badal stuck a deal with Iqbal that Vedanti would be removed in September 2008.


Now Lamba has cooked up another story against Prof Darshan Singh. Ever eager to take revenge Iqbal etc have oiled their thighs for last fight. Badal does not care as far Radhasoami vote bank is intact. And also with Prof Darshan Singh out, it is easier for Badal to checkmate SARNA and company in SGPC elections.


According to my readings, Prof Darshan Singh will be excommunicated from Panth this time around. Lamba will win. Unless some tactics and flaws are discovered. Or PM Manmohan Singh is used to twist Sukhbir's arm and hence silence Akal Takht.."

...

Who will succeed the third time around?
 
May 24, 2008
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Sangat ji
Thanks for all the input. Can someone point me in the right direction. I need to know if above mentioned link (previously posted by me) has got the right translations (word by word) specially in part 5. If not then what and where can I find the right translations of the same? If these are the right translations then Can we even think our Guru ji has put these stazas or sentences or words in a Pothy or Granth?

**Please note that I am only a humble sikh not affliated with anyone just a common man!!
Thanks
Veer
Dear Veer Partap Khalsa ji ,
Here is a link to translation of Chritropakyan of DG including chritar 21 & 22 , the tale of Anoop Kaur .


English Translation of Chritropakhyaan From Dasam Granth Vol-1@@AMEPARAM@@/docinfo/11885644?access_key=key-pugp3hc565zldn2ypcd@@AMEPARAM@@11885644@@AMEPARAM@@key-pugp3hc565zldn2ypcd

Would like to hear all views on it .
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Heres a another fantastic write up by Kirpal Singh Nijher ( not the one who took spn to Utube !!) SACH SUNAISEE SACH KI BELA..
SIKH NATION …. FOOLED ONCE AGAIN???!!!

Date: Maghar 5, 541 NS (Nanakshahi)

How many more times, are we the Sikh going to let the Anti-Sikh Deceptions fool us???!!!
… Ad infinitum???!!!

Well, if the Sikh Reaction to the latest MEGA-DECEPTION created by a TV Host by the name Gurcharanjit Singh Lamba (@ Jus Punjabi is any indicator; then there does not seem to be any hope for the Sikhs on the horizon.

It seems that once again we the Sikhs have been fooled into falling for the age old Bipar Trick of tricking the Sikhs with some OUT-OF-THE-CONTEXT non-sense, and then enjoying the Sikhs’ mindless reaction to such a deception. … (e.g. The way many of the Sikhs have mindlessly fallen for the Bipar-deception of accepting the Porno Trash of Charitro-Pakhyan as Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s writings,)

The latest episode in this saga of tricks is a heavily doctored OUT-OF-THE-CONTEXT TV broadcast by S. Gurcharanjit Singh Lamba@ Jus Punjabi; in which he turned the CONTEXT of Prof. Darshan Singh’s Keertan at Rochester NY Gurdwara Sahib upside down by converting a very pro-Guru Gobind Singh Jee presentation of Prof Darshan Singh’s into a very Anti-Guru Jus Punjabi broadcast. … The frustrated Sikh reaction to this episode needs no mention; because by now, everyone knows that the Sikhs are shaken up right to the top including their Akal Takhat in response to this broadcast.

Now let us search for the truth a bit by going into the background. … By now all of us know that there are three main actors in this episode namely; Prof. Darshan Singh; who did the Keertan; …. S. Gurcharanjit Singh Lamba; who did the broadcast of his heavily deceptive version of that Keertan; … and The Sikh Sangat of Rochester Gurdwara Sahib; who listened to the actual Keertan in its CONTEXT, and understood its message; ….. But, a few days later found itself in a very helpless and frustrated situation; when a completely OUT-OF-THE-CONTEXT version the Keertan held at their Gurdwara Sahib was broadcast @ Jas Punjabi to play a very cruel JOKE on the entire Sikh Nation. … Well, that is what is known so far to majority of us.

However what is not known is; … a) the CONTEXT in which Prof Darshan Singh spoke. … b) The possible reason for the distortions that the TV Host S. Lamba chose to do. … and c) The magnitude of Rochester Sangat’s frustration & helplessness.

To understand the episode in its completeness, please keep the following sequence of events in mind;
1. August 9, 2009: To make inroads with the Rochester Gurdwara Sahib Sangat, S. Gurcharanjit Singh Lamba came to the Gurdwara Sahib & delivered a lecture.
2. Aughust, 23, 2009: Prof. Darshan Singh came to Gurdwara Sahib & did his said Keertan.
3. End of Sept, 2009; at the request of Mr. Lamba, S. Makhan Singh of Rochester sent the DVD of Prof. Darshan Singh’s Keertan to S. Lamba in good faith. … (Therefore, not expecting any kind of foul play on part of S. Lamba, and not realizing the importance that the said DVD could acquire in a few days he happened to delete it from his computer).
4. Mid of October, 2009; The OUT-OF-THE-CONTEXT heavily edited DVD is broadcast by S. Lamba on Jus Punjabi.

ROCHESTER SANGAT’S FRUSTRATION;
5. After watching the distorted version of their DVD on Jus Punjabi many Truth-seeking Sikhs started calling the Rochester Sangat for a copy of the non-edited version of the DVD. Therefore S. Makhan Singh not having anything in hand asked S. Lamba to return his DVD, or to play the entire DVD on Jus Punjabi so that people could judge for them as to; where lies the TRUTH & where lies the FALSEHOOD?… However S. Lamba having found that S. Makhan Singh does not have anything in his hand to reveal the Truth about the deceptive broadcast; did neither, and started giving S. Makhan Singh a run around.
6. In his frustration. S. Makhan Singh did the following;
a. He requested the Jas Punjabi Management to play the un-edited version of the DVD in its entirety on Jus Punjabi. But had no luck.
b. Therefore having been left with no other choice, he sent his computer to computer specialists for retrieval of the said DVD at a price tag of $1000.
c. Also, he wrote a letter in this connection to “Sher-e-Punjab” newspaper. (Please see that letter at the end of this letter.)
7. Thus comes the un-edited version of the DVD on the Internet.
(Please CLICK below to hear the un-edited version of the DVD)

http://www.wakeupkhalsa.com/<wbr>video-shabad.php

Now let us discuss the issues at hand.


CONTEXT: … The central theme of Prof. Darshan Singh’s massage as understood by the Rochester Sangat was that; …

“As per Guru Gobind Singh Jee’s directive Guru Granth Sahib is the only Guru of the Sikhs. Therefore no other book (like Dasam Granth etc.) should be considered as a co-equal of Guru Granth Sahib. … Stating its history he explained that;

During the Dogra Treachery period of Maharaja Ranjit Singh & the “please the Master” period of British Raj, when Dasam Granth (whose actual name is Bachittar-Natak-Granth, and at present in a deceptive move is named as “Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib” with the words Dasam in small letters & SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB in big letters) was introduced into the Sikh Gurdwara Sahibs to take the Sikhs away from Guru Granth Sahib.. … Next, during the Sikh period of awakening Dasam Granth was removed from all those Gurdwara Sahibs that fell under the Sikh control; however in the absence of the “All India Gurdwara Act, it couldn’t be removed from Gurdwaras outside of Punjab. Hence parkash of Dasam Granth as a co-equal of Sri Guru Granth Sahib in places like Hazoor Sahib, Patna Sahib & many other places continues till today. Such practices in any of the Gurdwaras are wrong & hence should be stopped; because nothing can equal Guru Granth Sahib.

Furthermore, from the Dasam Granth the Amrit Banis or other Guru related literature (aproximately 60 pages out of the total of 1429 page of the Granth) should be taken out, and rest of the Granth should be discarded. The reason for such an action is warranted because in this Granth majority of writings that are NOT written by Guru Gobind Singh Jee but are very deceptively associated with his name by the enemy quarters. … For example there are episodes in Dasam Granth, in which the enemies of the Sikhs in a very deceptive way have tried to portray the Guru Sahib as; … a) ordering his Sikhs to remove turbans from the heads of people urinating in the open; and then using these turbans to give Siropas to some Sikhs; …. b) Portraying Guru Sahib going to a prostitute etc. … Then he went into a detailed description of the Noop Kaur episode & explained the nonsense & impossibilities of this deception.”

Then he encouraged the Sangat to read all such literature themselves, so that they could realize first hand, the extent of the atrocities of such writings..

Majority of the Sangat understood the very loud & clear message in its context & nobody objected about anything.

REASON FOR MR. LAMBA’S DECEPTION;
Is S. Lamba on a mission to promote the Dasam Granth and other anti-Sikh literature in the West under the directions of some much bigger force? … Only, S. Lamba knows. … But his blatant act of JOURNALISTIC DISHONESTY in which he has projected a very pro-Guru Gobind Singh Ji message of Prof. Darshan Singh into an upside down Anti-Guru Gobind Singh broadcast, to fool the Sikh Sangat at large; and furthermore has misbehaved with S. Makahan Singh an innocent member of the Sangat; puts a question mark on S. Lambas’s integrity.

Therefore it is necessary for the entire Sikh Nation to investigate & find S. Lamba’s real motives; and the “INVISIBLE HAND (if any)” that is funding/helping his operation; through which he has been able to;
1. Become in-charge of the Sant-Sipahi magazine back home.&
2. A TV Host in the USA; … the place wherefrom a very vocal opposition to Dasam Granth is coming from.

Is he just a TV Host doing his job, or a part of some much bigger clique; that in a very calculated way is busy controlling the Sikh Airwaves; because

“If you control information; you control the people.”

Is S. Lamba a very intelligent man, who knows the Sikhs inside out? … Absolutely YES, he is!

However unfortunately, so were the men by the names of Ram, Sham, Gansham & Soom; who created the MEGA-DECEPTION of Bachittar-Natak-Granth aka DASAM GRANTH that we the Sikhs have not been able to resolve even today; and it is clinging to us like a CHRONIC VIRUS.

Should we continue getting FOOLED ad infinitum by it???!!! … Choice is ours to make.

Kirpal Singh, USA


(A personal note: The author has personally met and talked to quite a few members of the Rochester Gurdwara Sahib Sangat to dig out the information that is contained in the above letter.)

S. MAKHAN SINGH’S LETTER to Sher-e-Punjab:
(In case you can’t read it; then please look at the attachment.)


pRo:drSn isMG bnwm s: gurcrnjIq isMG lWbw

iksy vI Drm ivc jd kdy koeI vwd ivvwd auT KloNdw hY, qW ieh sB qoN vD mwrU swbq huMdw hY [ ipCy jhy gurdvwrw AwP rwcYstr, nIaU Xwrk ivc AYsw hI kuJ hoieAw [ kuJ smW hoieAw s: gurcrnjIq isMG lWbw Aqy pRo: drSn isMG sjx Agy ipCy Awey [ gurdvwrw pRbMDkW Aqy smucI sMgq ny ienHW dohW ivdvwnW dI Awmd dw suAwgq kIqw Aqy aunHW dI Awmd dw suAwgq kIqw Aqy aunHW nUM isropwau vI b^iSS kIqy [ pRo: swihb ny ieQy do idn kIrqn kIqw [ lWbw jI nUM aunHW dI mMg auqy dohW idnW dIAW fIvIfIAW ByjIAW geIAW [ pRo: drSn isMG dI vIfIau nUM aunHW ny kt vF kr ky js pMjwbI cYnl qoN idKw idqw, ijs dI aunHW pwsoN aumId nhIN sI [

lWbw jI nUM aupr QlI bynqI vI kIqI geI ik auh jW qW ies vIifau nUM ibnW AYift kIqy qoN vwps Byj dyx jW ies dI pUrI kwpI ieMtrnYt auqy pw dyx qW jo isK sMgq Kud vyK ky inrnw kr lvy ik kI sc hY Aqy kI JUT, pr lWbw jI ny keI vwAdy krky vwAdw i^lwPI kIqI hY [ ies nwl auh Awp vI Sk dy Gyry ivc Aw jWdy hn [ sbMDq vIfIau lWbw jI pws swfI Amwnq hY Aqy aunHW nUM Amwnq ivc i^Awnq krnI SoBw nhIN idMdI, ies leI aunHW nUM iek vyr Pyr bynqI kIqI jWdI hY ik swfy vloN ByjI fIvIfI swnUM CyqI qoN CyqI ByjI jwvy [ js pMjwbI cYnl dy smucy adwry Aqy pRbMDkW Agy bynqI hY ik auh pMQk eykqw leI ies fIvIfI nUM pUry rUp ivc Awpxy drSkW nUM idKwaux, qW jo koeI BulyKy dw iSkwr nw hovy [

pMQk eykqw dw ieCk

mKx isMG, rwcYstr, nIaU Xwrk
tYlIPon: 585-350-5358



__._,_.___
Attachment(s) from Kirpal Singh Nijher
1 of 1 File(s)
 

spnadmin

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veerpartapkhalsa ji

You know what is so bad about this. By insisting that Dasam Pita wrote this kind of thing, and creating a furor over honest questions coming from the panth, the really and truly deep and profound and liberating point of the life and death and Gurdgaddi of Sri Gobind Singh is lost.

It is lost to the next generations of Sikhs who will have these crass and maya filled messages of self-delusion as their legacy. Everything else that the world now holds in awe about Dasam Pita will be faded and will dim like the tales of Rama.

That is the tragedy iMHO.
 

spnadmin

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dalbirkji

Thanks - This is the translation that I knew of and then lost it, or it seemed it had lost itself. I appreciate your effort posting it here.

It downloads fine from the Scribd site. I logged in through facebook Connect, and then the pdf version started to download in my download manager.
 
May 24, 2008
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veerpartapkhalsa ji

You know what is so bad about this. By insisting that Dasam Pita wrote this kind of thing, and creating a furor over honest questions coming from the panth, the really and truly deep and profound and liberating point of the life and death and Gurdgaddi of Sri Gobind Singh is lost.

It is lost to the next generations of Sikhs who will have these crass and maya filled messages of self-delusion as their legacy. Everything else that the world now holds in awe about Dasam Pita will be faded and will dim like the tales of Rama.

That is the tragedy iMHO.

Dear Narayan Jot Ji ,
When I just accidently got inclined towards philosophy some two years back , I came across this term " THE ALKALINE SEA OF BRAHMINISM " . I at first was at a loss , not knowing what this term stands for . I guess the thing you are talking about is just that the Alkalike sea of Brahminism . A person just laps up something which is against the basic philosophy of that religion gets so hooked to mythology that REAL LIFE does not impress him/her anymore . Easy & short path to so called spirituality . Just the thing happened to Buddhists not knowing when they started sliding , just sank without a trace . Hope it does not get repeated to Sikhs .
 

vampire

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Vampire on Sikhism

The 'Dasam' Granth controversy has been going on for a long time.
Guru Granth Sahib Jee is supposed to be the Sikhs Guru. Yet we have people who are not satisfied with Guru Granth Sahib Jee. That is why they are always quoting rehitnamas, saakia or dasam granth. If we as Sikhs considered Guru Granth Sahib Jee as the be all and end all, we would not have this mess. Arguments and splits will continue in Sikhism.
 

spnadmin

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I am just going to repeat what you said because I agree with it 100 percent.

The 'Dasam' Granth controversy has been going on for a long time. Guru Granth Sahib Jee is supposed to be the Sikhs Guru. Yet we have people who are not satisfied with Guru Granth Sahib Jee. That is why they are always quoting rehitnamas, saakia or dasam granth. If we as Sikhs considered Guru Granth Sahib Jee as the be all and end all, we would not have this mess. Arguments and splits will continue in Sikhism

The 'Dasam' Granth controversy has been going on for a long time.
Guru Granth Sahib Jee is supposed to be the Sikhs Guru. Yet we have people who are not satisfied with Guru Granth Sahib Jee. That is why they are always quoting rehitnamas, saakia or dasam granth. If we as Sikhs considered Guru Granth Sahib Jee as the be all and end all, we would not have this mess. Arguments and splits will continue in Sikhism.


BTW Your blog is going to be good stuff. Keep it up. Later when I visit Sikh blogs this evening I will probably leave a comment. Thanks.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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1.
There were a HUGE BUNCH..of so called dsm granth birs....Now WHY would there be so many DIFFERING Volumes ??

2.
A SODHAK COMITTEE ( composed of Britihs Plants..clerks, granthis, JHOLI CHUKS like BEDI SIR KHEM SINGH BEDI..who wanted to be considered EQUAL to Gurus because of his Lineage..this same BEDI is related to Amitabh Bachans Mother !!) was set up to RECONCILE these Differing Volumes...

3. IF ALL the Volumes were Originally AUTHORED bY Guru Gobind Singh Ji..and are GURUBANI...then what gives a mere clerk or a Sir Bedi the RIGHT to ALTER/CUT/PASTE/CHANGE/REMOVE any "gurubanis"...? Is the SOdhak Comittee assuming the Role of BETTER/HIGHER than the GURU ?? Sure looks that way ??....doesnt it ?? Humans CORRECTING the GURU ??

Daal wich bahut kujhs kaala hai ji....teh Fish Head is ROTTEN and smells....so bad !!:thumbup:
 
May 24, 2008
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The Chritro Pakhyan are supposed to be stories showing various shades of character of women . If it is so then it seems a bit wierd , because Sikhism is supposed to be equally for men & women . If shades of women's character are told then shades of men's characters are also to be told . Seems a bit demeaning to women when shades of only WOMEN'S CHARACTER are told & not men's .
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Gender Bias is NOT the entire reason...there are a few Men related charitars as well...just to balance out ....BUT that doesnt make it all right....just like saying that its "gender bias" if one says prostitution is bad..and then to balance it out say that ... Being Gay is also bad.....does that "balanced gender" make the two Right ?? ( Just an example without prejudice to either prostitutes or gays ):u)::u): the Fact is the Charitars are NOT GURBANI...not by a longgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg shot.:u)::u)::u)::u)::u):
 

Tejwant Singh

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Gyani ji,

Guru fateh.

You are absolutely right about that. Allow me to add something more. When Charitars talk about women, it is also related to men. They are not mentioning anything about the Lesbians and the same goes for the female prostitution.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

spnadmin

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What has been issued is a "sandesh" and not orders to excommunicate on sight. Let's see what happens.

I am posting from the blog of The Khalsa Fauj so it will be clear that a lot of disinformation is being spread by Mr. Lamba who masterminded the strategy of sending an edited DVD of Professor Darshan Singh's katha to Akaal Takht.





"We see two different sandeshs sent by Jathedars. This is not a hukamnama but a sandesh. It only has signature of Jathedar of Takht. It doesn't have signature of 5 singhs. A sandesh is quite different from a hukamnama. Sandeshs are recommendations and not mandatory. The reason for posting those two is because one has a date on it and the other doesn't. The one without date was the first one available on Panthic Weekly. Panthic Weekly received it before others" ... Panthic Wing
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Five SINGH SAHIBS..Under the Signature of Akal Takhat Jathedar Sadhu Singh Bhaura met on Akal Takhata nd Issued a Hukmnamah that Charitrapkhoyan in dsm granth is NOT the writings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji...in 1973.

Thus the Present Jathedar is CONTRAVENING a Hukmnamha issued by his predecessor !! in 1973.
This issue is raised in one of the Nine resolutions passed by a HUge turnout of Sangats in NEW YORK GURDWARA. Rabinder singh BHAMRA, GS Lamba and Harvinder singh RIYARR are named conspirators behind this anti-darshan singh episode. Bhamra writes on Forums regularly and is a strong supporter of reincarnation, etc etc etc...
 
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