Dasam Granth And Its History

[Astroboy]

i find it interesting that the people who support dasam granth are all professors of history or religious studies, while the main opposition is tankhaiya and is afraid to even come before akal takht and explain himself.

You're right. Listening to Dr. Jodh is really good. Better to listen to Experienced scholars than hear-say.:ice:

 

[Archived_Member1]

Did I say I didn't understand any part?
I never was much of a reader but when it comes to Sikhism I can't resist but to read more and more!

Sri Dasam Granth of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji santsipahi.org

then read both sides.

 

[BhagatSingh]

I think there are plenty of anti dasam granth sikhs who beleive that jaap saahib,saawaiye
and other non controversial material is writing of guru gobind singh ji

I could believe that, I am not that bad. But it's there along with the trash so.. unless someone separates Guru Sahib's writings from the Bhraminical philosophies, I can't accept those so called Banis.

Sri Dasam Granth of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji santsipahi.org

then read both sides.

thanks for the link! again. i will and I already have.

You're right. Listening to Dr. Jodh is really good. Better to listen to Experienced scholars than hear-say.:ice:

If you can understand punjabi then watch this: So called Dasam Granth or {censored} Kavita and
Dasam Granth - The conspiracy


And as always my questions go unanswered, now I will definetly make a new thread with the questions.

 

[spnadmin]

Again my friend Bhagat ji,

Before you jump to conclusions and judge me to be an idiot, Gobind Singh created the Khalsa in 1702 and died in 1708. That was the 18th Century. Please check your timetable.

 

[Sherab]

Again my friend Bhagat ji,

Before you jump to conclusions and judge me to be an idiot, Gobind Singh created the Khalsa in 1702 and died in 1708. That was the 18th Century. Please check your timetable.

Most people say Khalsa was 1699 at Anandpur Sahib...

 

[spnadmin]

One year before the start of the 18th Century. Touche.

 

[International Akaali]

Jasleen kaur are you saying that guru gobind singh went against guru granth sahib ji when it says ek bani ek gur eko shabad veechar.

It is clear that there is only one bani, one guru and one shabad. And then how can you say that that guru granth sahib ji is one guru and then dasam granth is another? All the gurus are all one jyot, and thus guru granth sahib ji is the only guru of the sikhs.

like i said before the only guru of sikhs is guru granth sahib ji and what is included in guru granth sahib ji is only gurbani.

 

[Archived_Member1]

Jasleen kaur are you saying that guru gobind singh went against guru granth sahib ji when it says ek bani ek gur eko shabad veechar.

It is clear that there is only one bani, one guru and one shabad. And then how can you say that that guru granth sahib ji is one guru and then dasam granth is another? All the gurus are all one jyot, and thus guru granth sahib ji is the only guru of the sikhs.

like i said before the only guru of sikhs is guru granth sahib ji and what is included in guru granth sahib ji is only gurbani.

gurbani is the word of guru, no where does it say that gurbani is ONLY contained in SGGS. SGGS is our present and eternal Guru, but before SGGS there were 10 living Gurus, and any of their words would be considered gurbani, whether it's in SGGS or not.

no one is trying to say dasam granth IS guru, we're saying it contains WORD of Guru.

i don't know why this is so difficult to understand.

 

[International Akaali]

gurbani is the word of guru, no where does it say that gurbani is ONLY contained in SGGS. SGGS is our present and eternal Guru, but before SGGS there were 10 living Gurus, and any of their words would be considered gurbani, whether it's in SGGS or not.

no one is trying to say dasam granth IS guru, we're saying it contains WORD of Guru.

i don't know why this is so difficult to understand.

bani hai guru guru hai bani vich bani amrit sarai.

You have admitted that dasam granth is not guru and then how can you say that jaap sahib tav parsaad swaiye is gurbani. It is literature equvilent to Zafarnama. Please contemplate the shabad written above.

The only word which is contained of the guru is guru granth sahib ji. Jaap sahib, swaiye, chaupai do not have the stamp of guru on it. The word of the guru is only in guru granth sahib ji. That is who you call guru now and forever will.

 

[Archived_Member1]

bani hai guru guru hai bani vich bani amrit sarai.

You have admitted that dasam granth is not guru and then how can you say that jaap sahib tav parsaad swaiye is gurbani. It is literature equvilent to Zafarnama. Please contemplate the shabad written above.

The only word which is contained of the guru is guru granth sahib ji. Jaap sahib, swaiye, chaupai do not have the stamp of guru on it. The word of the guru is only in guru granth sahib ji. That is who you call guru now and forever will.

sorry, i'm going to stick with Akal Takht as my temporal authority on such matters, not some random person on the internet who follows the excommunicated heretic kala afghana.

when we take amrit, 5 banis are recited, including swaiye, chaupi sahib, and jaap sahib. the panj piyare told me to daily recite these banis. they told me to look to akal takht if i had any questions or confusion about issues of maryada. and akal takht has clearly stated that those who speak out against dasam granth are trouble makers.

do you believe in amrit sanchar? where does one receive amrit where all five banis are not recited? certainly not at any of the holy takhts. certainly not in any respected gurdwara.

please take your anti-panthic propaganda elsewhere.

fateh!

 

[Astroboy]

International Akaali Ji,

I believe I asked you a question earlier. I am waiting to hear from you, Sir.

 

[International Akaali]

sorry, i'm going to stick with Akal Takht as my temporal authority on such matters, not some random person on the internet who follows the excommunicated heretic kala afghana.

when we take amrit, 5 banis are recited, including swaiye, chaupi sahib, and jaap sahib. the panj piyare told me to daily recite these banis. they told me to look to akal takht if i had any questions or confusion about issues of maryada. and akal takht has clearly stated that those who speak out against dasam granth are trouble makers.

do you believe in amrit sanchar? where does one receive amrit where all five banis are not recited? certainly not at any of the holy takhts. certainly not in any respected gurdwara.

please take your anti-panthic propaganda elsewhere.

fateh!

That is up to you whether or not you believe in your guru or not. Guru granth sahib ji is our only guru like i said before. Please refer to the shabad which was posted above and contemplate it.

Jaap sahib, tav parsaad swaiye and chaupai should be read until any changes are made. If not guru-panth is our hukam and that is what we are too follow.

Besides the fact of jaap sahib, tav parsaad swaiye and chaupai are you admitting to the fact that all other so called banis such as bachitar natak, chandi charitar, durga ki vaar, chatropakiyan, etc are not the authentic litrature of of guru gobind singh ji? If you are then we can proceed further with the discussion of banis which are in khadey kee pahul ceremony.

Like i said before Jaap sahib, Tavparsaad swaiye and chaupai are literature and is equivlent to zafarnama. these are written by Guru gobind singh but these banis have not gotten the status gurbani as gurbani is only that which is in shri guru granth sahib ji. It can be called bani of guru gobind singh but not gurbani. As we have agreed before and is read in ardaas every single day, dasa pathshahi thee jyot dhan shri guru granth sahib ji. Guru is compiled of bani of 10 gurus either it is there or not.

What about the gur nindiya of sahib shri guru gobind singh ji in dasam granth which not one person has yet to answer. Who is raam kavi? Shyam?are these the pen names of guru gobind singh ji? I never knew my guru was called shyam and raam? May I give some examples and do you care to give the answers?


To Naam Jaap:

I missed your question, can you repost your question. If you ask me questions i have to the equal right to ask you questions as well.

fateh

 

[Astroboy]

Jaap Sahib, Chaupai, and tavprasaad swaiyee can not be considered gurbani. Guru sahib has not given these banis gurgaddi. Rather they are writings which are accepted by the panth and considered authentic. If these writings are to be considered gurbani they were to be included in guru granth sahib ji. Guru sahib did not, The true guru is guru granth sahib ji.

In gurbani there is a verse :
Satguru Bina Hor Kachi Hai Bani


Is Jaap Sahib considered kachi bani ?

 

[Archived_Member1]

That is up to you whether or not you believe in your guru or not. Guru granth sahib ji is our only guru like i said before. Please refer to the shabad which was posted above and contemplate it.

i believe in my guru, in every form.

Jaap sahib, tav parsaad swaiye and chaupai should be read until any changes are made. If not guru-panth is our hukam and that is what we are too follow.

"until changes are made"/ lol... that's funny, considering that the only people who think changes should be made are excommunicated from the panth. i'm assuming this is "khalsa fauj", because your words are identical. nice try at hiding behind another profile.

Besides the fact of jaap sahib, tav parsaad swaiye and chaupai are you admitting to the fact that all other so called banis such as bachitar natak, chandi charitar, durga ki vaar, chatropakiyan, etc are not the authentic litrature of of guru gobind singh ji? If you are then we can proceed further with the discussion of banis which are in khadey kee pahul ceremony.

nope, i'm not saying any such thing. do not twist my words or put words in my mouth.

Like i said before Jaap sahib, Tavparsaad swaiye and chaupai are literature and is equivlent to zafarnama. these are written by Guru gobind singh but these banis have not gotten the status gurbani as gurbani is only that which is in shri guru granth sahib ji. It can be called bani of guru gobind singh but not gurbani. As we have agreed before and is read in ardaas every single day, dasa pathshahi thee jyot dhan shri guru granth sahib ji. Guru is compiled of bani of 10 gurus either it is there or not.

you admit to reading ardas every day, that's something. you do know where the first section comes from, right?

you say it was written by Guru, but is not Gurbani. Gurbani is the word of Guru. how can it be the word of guru and not the word of guru at the same time? sorry, it doesn't make sense.

 

[International Akaali]

i believe in my guru, in every form.



"until changes are made"/ lol... that's funny, considering that the only people who think changes should be made are excommunicated from the panth. i'm assuming this is "khalsa fauj", because your words are identical. nice try at hiding behind another profile.



nope, i'm not saying any such thing. do not twist my words or put words in my mouth.


you admit to reading ardas every day, that's something. you do know where the first section comes from, right?

you say it was written by Guru, but is not Gurbani. Gurbani is the word of Guru. how can it be the word of guru and not the word of guru at the same time? sorry, it doesn't make sense.

If you believe in your guru in every form please contemplate the shabad rather then us having this argument.

Please read my entire sentence rather then reading one word. "Jaap sahib, tav parsaad swaiye and chaupai should be read until any changes are made. If not guru-panth is our hukam and that is what we are too follow. "

The next line states if not meaning if theyre arent any changes made guru panth is hukam and that is what we are to follow its funny how come up with assumptions before reading the entire sentence.

You said: "you admit to reading ardas every day, that's something. you do know where the first section comes from, right?

you say it was written by Guru, but is not Gurbani. Gurbani is the word of Guru. how can it be the word of guru and not the word of guru at the same time? sorry, it doesn't make sense. "

Easy, Whatever is in shri guru granth sahib ji is our guru, what is not is not our guru. Like i said before it is literature. Is zafarnama a letter guru gobind singh ji wrote our guru? no it is not our guru it is a letter. rather the fact that the only guru there is shri guru granth sahib ji. Jaap sahib and all the others which are discussed come in the same context.

You are reading ardas is it our guru? no of course not it is ardas. Just because it is a letter or sandesh of some sort it doesn't mean it is guru. Guru is only in roop of guru shabad in guru granth sahib ji.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now i am going to ask some questions to you I am going to take the following from discoversikhi.com because i don't have time to type as i have other things to do:

It is direct attack on guru gobind singh ji when writings say that women can never become pavitar even if they go to ganga and do ishnaan there. You should never trust a women.

this is not trash talk, this is truth.

post,bhang,afeem bahu gehari bhang ghutaai Turat taran layawat bhai mad sat waar chuaai

Can you explain to me what you learn from this? Read the entire charitar even if you try to get bhav of story makes no sense. Refer to charitar 16

Read it youself if you even have to courege to do so. I would have to say sadly that you are the weak one for not standing up for our guru. How can you even have the guts to say this is bani?

Direct attacks of guru sahib can never be tolerated.

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To Naam Jaap:

Please understand what the word kachi bani means. If you need an explanations please ask for one as I don't have time right now.

I would like to say don't take bani and gurbani as the same thing. Gurbani and Bani are two diffrent things.

Fateh

 

[Archived_Member1]

Guru is only in roop of guru shabad in guru granth sahib ji.

akal takht disagrees with you. damdami taksal disagrees with you. every major sikh scholar disagrees with you. only heretics agree with you. doesn't this phase you at all? you sound like a broken record. a brainwashed broken record.
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Now i am going to ask some questions to you I am going to take the following from discoversikhi.com because i don't have time to type as i have other things to do:

interesting, you "don't have time". "khalsa fauj" also never has time to do anything but post and run. i guess i was right, you are the same person. why do you need to post under different aliases? what are you hiding from?

It is direct attack on guru gobind singh ji when writings say that women can never become pavitar even if they go to ganga and do ishnaan there. You should never trust a women.

please show me where guru has said never trust a woman. and since when does ganga ishnaan mean anything to sikhs (women OR men?)

post,bhang,afeem bahu gehari bhang ghutaai Turat taran layawat bhai mad sat waar chuaai

english please.

Can you explain to me what you learn from this? Read the entire charitar even if you try to get bhav of story makes no sense. Refer to charitar 16

Read it youself if you even have to courege to do so. I would have to say sadly that you are the weak one for not standing up for our guru. How can you even have the guts to say this is bani?

i will do so as soon as i find the translation...

Direct attacks of guru sahib can never be tolerated.

agreed. which is why i find it so offensive when you say nitnem banis are not gurbani.

 

[International Akaali]

akal takht disagrees with you. damdami taksal disagrees with you. every major sikh scholar disagrees with you. only heretics agree with you. doesn't this phase you at all? you sound like a broken record. a brainwashed broken record.
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interesting, you "don't have time". "khalsa fauj" also never has time to do anything but post and run. i guess i was right, you are the same person. why do you need to post under different aliases? what are you hiding from?




please show me where guru has said never trust a woman. and since when does ganga ishnaan mean anything to sikhs (women OR men?)






english please.



i will do so as soon as i find the translation...



agreed. which is why i find it so offensive when you say nitnem banis are not gurbani.

Why are you doing so much mahapaap by saying guru granth sahib is not sampooran?

why are so concerned with khalsa fauj you are speaking with me. It doesn't matter where i post it no one is gonna answer the questions there and no one is going to answer it here.

What is the use of showing you even if i show you, you dont know one word of punjabi so what is the use. Why are you even here arguing with me if you dont even know what you are arguing about. You want translations for everything when it is clear in punjabi what is written there.

You aren't willing to answer one question and don't have the ability to do so then why are you arguing with me.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

What the heck. Why does everyone who oppose dasam granth get labeled "the khalsa fauj"? I don't have 100 accounts people. I only use 1 ID and don't need to hide from no one. Not even vedanti makkar or dhumma. They can bring it anytime for debate. All three against me. They can bring it anytime here in Canada. International Akali's posts seem similar to mine because we go to same Gurudwara and do veechar there. He is a product of Gurmat gyan and not some lamba.

Not only that, he also studies at same University which I studied at. I don't need another ID. Dasam Granth chelas can't even control my 1 ID, why would I need another?

Open challenge to anyone to dasam granth debate in Canada.

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

All true Gurus are great. Their Baanee is wondrous.
Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee is incomparable and His Baanee too.

Dear International Akali Jee, have you understood Guru Gobind Singh Jee's words or it is the translation of a Baabaa that you have read to understand Gurdev's writings? Please clarify this.


Balbir Singh

 

[Archived_Member1]

Why are you doing so much mahapaap by saying guru granth sahib is not sampooran?

why are so concerned with khalsa fauj you are speaking with me. It doesn't matter where i post it no one is gonna answer the questions there and no one is going to answer it here.

What is the use of showing you even if i show you, you dont know one word of punjabi so what is the use. Why are you even here arguing with me if you dont even know what you are arguing about. You want translations for everything when it is clear in punjabi what is written there.

You aren't willing to answer one question and don't have the ability to do so then why are you arguing with me.

why do you have to hide behind so many different aliases?

why can't i learn about my faith in my mother tongue? why must i read everything in punjabi? do you think Guru Nanak Dev ji tried to speak in punjabi to the arabs in Mecca? or in Tibet? or do you believe in sakhis?

you speak english very well, you obviously feel you're very intelligent and have great understanding of gurbani. why can't you explain it to those of us with lesser intellect and understanding? wait, let me guess, you don't have time.

i have tried to address each of your points that i felt comfortable addressing. i don't usually answer questions i do not know the answer to. i think that is fair.

so if you'd like to teach us poor stupid western sikhs anything, please attempt to do so using english. or if you want to be a punjabi elitist snob, write us off as unable to understand.

btw, are you the same person who said that western sikhs are incapable of understanding gurbani? i can't remember.

International Akali's posts seem similar to mine because we go to same Gurudwara and do veechar there. He is a product of Gurmat gyan and not some lamba.

Not only that, he also studies at same University which I studied at. I don't need another ID. Dasam Granth chelas can't even control my 1 ID, why would I need another?

they're not similar posts, they're identical. even to the point of refusing to explain because you "don't have time to explain" or "you can't understand punjabi so there's no point".

you need multiple IDs because you're trying to make it look like other sikhs agree with you, when you're clearly in a tiny minority.

fateh!


quick question for khalsa fauj/akali...

which gurdwara do you attend which goes directly against akal takht and teaches this heresy? i'd like to be sure to stay away from it.