It is not possible to accept something based on 1 line. Looking at the whole message is important to make an informed decision. There are too many contradictions to the Guru Granth Sahib Ji in the dasam granth to justify it
Dasam Granth Cynics Now Attacking Guru Granth Sahib
- Thread starter Inder singh
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It is not possible to accept something based on 1 line. Looking at the whole message is important to make an informed decision. There are too many contradictions to the Guru Granth Sahib Ji in the dasam granth to justify it
- Oct 10, 2009
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Gurfateh ji,
Their are no contraditions in Dasam Granth Sahib even the word SATNAM IS used in Dasam Granth as you have in Mool Mantar of SGGS. Now let us compare SGGS gives us the message of controlling the mind in order to gain spiritual fulfillment Let's see what Dasam Granth Sahib meesage-
"Only those who controlled their minds, recognized the Supreme Brahman".
( DASAM GRANTH)
In Japji sahib in pauri 32 where it states that Even if you have 20,000 tongues you still be short of reciting God's Name. Now Let see in Dasam
Granth Sahib-
"If one is blessed with millions of tongues, even then he feels them short in number, (while singing the Praises of the Lord)" ( DASAM GRANTH SAHIB)
This message is exactly similar to the message of Japji Sahib. Sounds
Similar doesn't it?
Now this is interesting Dasam Granth Sahib mentions Guru Nanak Sahib have you heard this before ask these scholars? Here is the answer
"Guru Nanak spread Dharma in the Iron age and put the seekers on the path. Those who followed the path propagated by him, were never harmed by the vices. ( DASAM GRANTH SAHIB)
Is their any doubts left? In my opinion I don't think so. Message of Gurbani
Sahib is clearly expalined in this Granth this is not an assumption that this
Granth has more to offer than one word.
Their are no contraditions in Dasam Granth Sahib even the word SATNAM IS used in Dasam Granth as you have in Mool Mantar of SGGS. Now let us compare SGGS gives us the message of controlling the mind in order to gain spiritual fulfillment Let's see what Dasam Granth Sahib meesage-
"Only those who controlled their minds, recognized the Supreme Brahman".
( DASAM GRANTH)
In Japji sahib in pauri 32 where it states that Even if you have 20,000 tongues you still be short of reciting God's Name. Now Let see in Dasam
Granth Sahib-
"If one is blessed with millions of tongues, even then he feels them short in number, (while singing the Praises of the Lord)" ( DASAM GRANTH SAHIB)
This message is exactly similar to the message of Japji Sahib. Sounds
Similar doesn't it?
Now this is interesting Dasam Granth Sahib mentions Guru Nanak Sahib have you heard this before ask these scholars? Here is the answer
"Guru Nanak spread Dharma in the Iron age and put the seekers on the path. Those who followed the path propagated by him, were never harmed by the vices. ( DASAM GRANTH SAHIB)
Is their any doubts left? In my opinion I don't think so. Message of Gurbani
Sahib is clearly expalined in this Granth this is not an assumption that this
Granth has more to offer than one word.
Please can you tell me whether you have read the entire dasam granth?
I spent over 2 months studying it and read the entire thing. There are many concepts which are anti-gurmat. Here are a FEW examples:-
it is very anti-women whereas the Guru Granth Sahib Ji puts us on an equal footing
it is p****graphic whereas the Guru Granth Sahib Ji focusses on leaving lust behind
it promotes devi worship whereas the Guru Granth Sahib Ji instructs us to worship only Waheguru
there is much empahsis on kal whereas in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji is all about akal
it promotes Guru Gobind Singh Ji as a separate jyot from the other Gurus whereas in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji they are all recognised as one and the name Nanak is used throughout
There are many threads discussing the dasam granth. Perhaps have a look at some then return with questions if you have doubts.
- Oct 10, 2009
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Gurfateh ji,
Tenth Master is narrating a story and instructing his Sikhs to be aware of treachery of women so they don't get trapped like the whole world does In puratan Times and till date Nihang recite this bani and you see Sikhs are always known for their character so it's not about equal footing but making Character of Sikhs pure nothing else.
Let put things in right perspective regarding Tenth Master condemns Devi goddesss or
not let me explain this in detail-
Gurmat condemns the worship of gods and goddesses.
�Mahakal Kalika Aradhi�
And it appears that the Guru wrote Chandi Charitar in praise of goddess Chandi and has described the importance of its recitation, e.g.
Salutation to Thee O Supreme Knower Lord! Salutation to Thee O Universal Mother Lord! ||52||
In the above quotation Kalika does not mean anything different from Eternal. To dispel all your doubts we show the condemnation of the worship of goddess in these six statements.
Tenth Master ordained his Sikhs
Except Waheguru (God), do not accept anyone as the ruler and controller of the world.
And it is written in the Vaar (ode) of Chandi:
O Lord! By creating Durga, Thou hast caused the destruction of demons.
It proves that there is a Creator of Durga and she is His Creature. Is it possible that the Guru counsels his Sikhs one thing and he himself does the totally opposite? It is not possible.
Guru Sahib makes this supplication and promise:
I recite only the Name of the Lord, which is useful at all places. (Bachittar Natak)
The goddess Durga takes refuge at the feet of Eternal and abides their. ( AKAL
USTAT)
If this is not enough here is something to put all doubts to rest and answer these scholars-
Name of God is gods of all. Some believe in goddess, some in Shiva and some others in Ganesha and other god. Sikhs of the Guru do not contemplate anybody else other than Sat Naam (True Name) that destroys all disturbances and imperfections. That is why Sat-Naam is invoked in the beginning.( DASAM GRANTH)
That's why I wrote earlier that the word SATNAM is used and moreover Tenth
Master is not in favour of any devta or devi because if you read JAAP SAHIB their is innovaction to enternal Lord which is right through the whole Dasam
Granth this is more than enough proof to prove that their Tenth Master did not
worship any devi or devata which also go along with the message of SGGS.
This Granth Proves that all the Guru Sahib had one jyot which came from Guru
Nanak Sahib and Tenth Master in Bachitar Natak categorically states their all the
in same line and their is no difference in SGGS their is mention of PANJ PYARE
so The vision and purpose of GURU NANAK SAHIB WAS COMPLETED BY TENTH
MASTER IN CREATING KHALSA.
For you're info the word Fateh has come from Dasam Granth so if the word Nanak is not used in this Granth doesn't mean that their is ambiguity because
Tenth Master inluded SLOKAS of his father but he did not included his writings
in SGGS. Guru Sahib had himself memorized SGGS and keeping with message of
SGGS he wrote Dasam Granth Sahib and at the same timee kept martial Spirit in
Sikh religion. That's why you see Nihangs get bir ras from this Granth and do not
have any problems with it. Tenth Master made so changes but never altered the
message of Gurbani in SGGS AND FURTHER EXPLAINED THE MESSAGE OF GURBANI
IN DASAM GRANTH.
I hope it answer some of you're queries not everyone can understand Dasam
Granth but atleast some effort is required instead of raising objections on it.
Tenth Master is narrating a story and instructing his Sikhs to be aware of treachery of women so they don't get trapped like the whole world does In puratan Times and till date Nihang recite this bani and you see Sikhs are always known for their character so it's not about equal footing but making Character of Sikhs pure nothing else.
Let put things in right perspective regarding Tenth Master condemns Devi goddesss or
not let me explain this in detail-
Gurmat condemns the worship of gods and goddesses.
�Mahakal Kalika Aradhi�
And it appears that the Guru wrote Chandi Charitar in praise of goddess Chandi and has described the importance of its recitation, e.g.
Salutation to Thee O Supreme Knower Lord! Salutation to Thee O Universal Mother Lord! ||52||
In the above quotation Kalika does not mean anything different from Eternal. To dispel all your doubts we show the condemnation of the worship of goddess in these six statements.
Tenth Master ordained his Sikhs
Except Waheguru (God), do not accept anyone as the ruler and controller of the world.
And it is written in the Vaar (ode) of Chandi:
O Lord! By creating Durga, Thou hast caused the destruction of demons.
It proves that there is a Creator of Durga and she is His Creature. Is it possible that the Guru counsels his Sikhs one thing and he himself does the totally opposite? It is not possible.
Guru Sahib makes this supplication and promise:
I recite only the Name of the Lord, which is useful at all places. (Bachittar Natak)
The goddess Durga takes refuge at the feet of Eternal and abides their. ( AKAL
USTAT)
If this is not enough here is something to put all doubts to rest and answer these scholars-
Name of God is gods of all. Some believe in goddess, some in Shiva and some others in Ganesha and other god. Sikhs of the Guru do not contemplate anybody else other than Sat Naam (True Name) that destroys all disturbances and imperfections. That is why Sat-Naam is invoked in the beginning.( DASAM GRANTH)
That's why I wrote earlier that the word SATNAM is used and moreover Tenth
Master is not in favour of any devta or devi because if you read JAAP SAHIB their is innovaction to enternal Lord which is right through the whole Dasam
Granth this is more than enough proof to prove that their Tenth Master did not
worship any devi or devata which also go along with the message of SGGS.
This Granth Proves that all the Guru Sahib had one jyot which came from Guru
Nanak Sahib and Tenth Master in Bachitar Natak categorically states their all the
in same line and their is no difference in SGGS their is mention of PANJ PYARE
so The vision and purpose of GURU NANAK SAHIB WAS COMPLETED BY TENTH
MASTER IN CREATING KHALSA.
For you're info the word Fateh has come from Dasam Granth so if the word Nanak is not used in this Granth doesn't mean that their is ambiguity because
Tenth Master inluded SLOKAS of his father but he did not included his writings
in SGGS. Guru Sahib had himself memorized SGGS and keeping with message of
SGGS he wrote Dasam Granth Sahib and at the same timee kept martial Spirit in
Sikh religion. That's why you see Nihangs get bir ras from this Granth and do not
have any problems with it. Tenth Master made so changes but never altered the
message of Gurbani in SGGS AND FURTHER EXPLAINED THE MESSAGE OF GURBANI
IN DASAM GRANTH.
I hope it answer some of you're queries not everyone can understand Dasam
Granth but atleast some effort is required instead of raising objections on it.
Gurveen1 ji,
Please answer my question-have you read the entire dasam granth?
I am not a scholar, merely a Gursikh who follows the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, my ONE AND ONLY Guru with all my heart and soul
Please answer my question-have you read the entire dasam granth?
I am not a scholar, merely a Gursikh who follows the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, my ONE AND ONLY Guru with all my heart and soul
I agreed with you 101%
I read it too but some of the "reading" I will not share with any one in Public.
Please do not devide the panth we have suffered allot. I belive in one Guru that is Guru Granth Sahib jee.
Gurfateh:happykaur:
- Oct 10, 2009
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Gurfateh ji,
All you're concerns are valid and I agree with you're sentiments But I don't know why peoplehave problem with this Granth. Whatever I have read from Dasam Granth I have understood it entirely so if their were any doubts left concerning Dasam Granth Sahib were completely e{censored}d.
Their is one verse in Dasam Granth sahib where SAHIB GURU GOBIND SINGH MAHARAJ in
one line wrote down that people will raise questions on this Granth in the near future and keeping the words of Tenth Master that's what were all doing isn't it? Is that Truth
or not? In this Granth you will find signatures of Tenth Master and he himself has approved it when he has approved why we're having problems with it?
Gurgaddi was given to GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ and we are told to follow one
Guru one Panth that is truth and always will be but how Panth is actually is Going to how this Panth is going to evolve in order to answer this very questions the reasons are
stated in Dasam Granth Sahib in Bani Khalsa Mahima Guru Sahib told his Sikhs why he
made the Khalsa and mentions mission of Guru Nanak Sahib in detail is this Gurbani or not
is this jewel or diamonds or not?
In Dasam Granth Sahib reasons are given why Nihangs wear Bana is this new knowledge
or what which is not explained in SGGS. SGGS IS ALWAYS BE OUR GURU AND ALWAYS
WILL BE but are you not intrested in finding reasons? Why Guru Sahib decided to take
action at certain time or just it just happened out of the blue?
In my opinion Dasam Granth is very essential and their should be no doubts over it.
All you're concerns are valid and I agree with you're sentiments But I don't know why peoplehave problem with this Granth. Whatever I have read from Dasam Granth I have understood it entirely so if their were any doubts left concerning Dasam Granth Sahib were completely e{censored}d.
Their is one verse in Dasam Granth sahib where SAHIB GURU GOBIND SINGH MAHARAJ in
one line wrote down that people will raise questions on this Granth in the near future and keeping the words of Tenth Master that's what were all doing isn't it? Is that Truth
or not? In this Granth you will find signatures of Tenth Master and he himself has approved it when he has approved why we're having problems with it?
Gurgaddi was given to GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ and we are told to follow one
Guru one Panth that is truth and always will be but how Panth is actually is Going to how this Panth is going to evolve in order to answer this very questions the reasons are
stated in Dasam Granth Sahib in Bani Khalsa Mahima Guru Sahib told his Sikhs why he
made the Khalsa and mentions mission of Guru Nanak Sahib in detail is this Gurbani or not
is this jewel or diamonds or not?
In Dasam Granth Sahib reasons are given why Nihangs wear Bana is this new knowledge
or what which is not explained in SGGS. SGGS IS ALWAYS BE OUR GURU AND ALWAYS
WILL BE but are you not intrested in finding reasons? Why Guru Sahib decided to take
action at certain time or just it just happened out of the blue?
In my opinion Dasam Granth is very essential and their should be no doubts over it.
No reason should be given No But when we have only One Guru that is Guru Granth Sahib.
In your own word GURLEER KAUR Ji said that Gurgadhi was given.
From First Guru to Ninth Guru when they pass on the GURUGADHI to next Nanak.
We can not erase or change the fact what our Guru ji did we have to obey that
NIHANGS Guru dee Ladli fouj, do you think it is fare to take Bhang & Drink Shardei and lose your sense. DO you think Guru jee will allow that? or what which is not explained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib.
How can you say it's not explained in Guru Granth Sahib. Guru Granth Sahib jee start with Ik Onkgar. Satguru Prasad
These can be your views but not My Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Guru Gobind Singh jee has given us One guru that is Guru Granth Sahib No Question should be raised also if we want to see our Guru Gobind SIngh jee than Guru jee has given us KHALSA In Guru Granth Sahib has written Panch Parvaan, Panch Pardhan rest go & read the Guru Granth sahib jee and you will find any answer any doubt you have in you mind,” Just stat your questions to front of Guru Granth sahib.
Bhul Chuk Maaf we have discussed on this issue more than several times and I do not understand why we have started again.
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- Oct 10, 2009
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Gurfateh ji,
As I have said earlier GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ will always be our guru no where I said that their should be any changes to it and their is no doubt will always obey the orders from our Guru. But we should also respect Dasam Granth.
If Dasam Granth is not important why then 3 Nitnem Banis are taken from it? If this granth has no relevance then why Sahib Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji Maharaj narrated his
life story about HemKunt Sahib and think about it Why Kirtan is done by ragis is that Gurbani or not?
As you said no reason should be given? If their was no reason this Granth shouldn't have
been written in first place? It was written with a purpose if Dasam Granth has some
knowledge doesn't mean that it challenges the authorship of SAHIB GURU GRANTH SAHIB
JI MAHARAJ.
In puratan times Sukha Singh and Mehtab Singh was challenged if their not able to teach Massar Rangar a lesson prakash of DASAM GRANTH will not be done along side
our beloved GURU then what happened they brought the heads of MASSAR RANGAR
and prakash of DASAM GRANT SAHIB WAS DONE ALONGSIDE SAHIB GURU GRANTH SAHIBJI MAHARAJ the SINGHS knew what they were doing?
Not all NIGHANG take bang or alcohol go and ask Nihangs from BUDDHA DAL who have defended Sikh religion and many others at the same are the custodians of this faith. If
you haven't read Dasam Granth Sahib doesn't mean it offers sharad no where in this
Granth you will find references to Alcohol I would recommend you to read this Dasam
Granth and then you will come to know about the reality?
Just by hearing allegations from so called scholars is not going to prove anything? OUR
daily ARDAS IS TAKEN FROM DASAM GRANTH SAHIB FROM CHAPTER-CHANDI DE VAAR? Ardas which is recited all of the over world in Gurudwara Sahib is taken from this Granth and Do you think Guru Sahib will ever mention alcohol or sharad?
If one cannot understand it's meanings doesn't mean their is flaw in Dasam Granth?
This issue is important as their attacks on DASAM GRANTH SAHIB without any reason?
As I have said earlier GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ will always be our guru no where I said that their should be any changes to it and their is no doubt will always obey the orders from our Guru. But we should also respect Dasam Granth.
If Dasam Granth is not important why then 3 Nitnem Banis are taken from it? If this granth has no relevance then why Sahib Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji Maharaj narrated his
life story about HemKunt Sahib and think about it Why Kirtan is done by ragis is that Gurbani or not?
As you said no reason should be given? If their was no reason this Granth shouldn't have
been written in first place? It was written with a purpose if Dasam Granth has some
knowledge doesn't mean that it challenges the authorship of SAHIB GURU GRANTH SAHIB
JI MAHARAJ.
In puratan times Sukha Singh and Mehtab Singh was challenged if their not able to teach Massar Rangar a lesson prakash of DASAM GRANTH will not be done along side
our beloved GURU then what happened they brought the heads of MASSAR RANGAR
and prakash of DASAM GRANT SAHIB WAS DONE ALONGSIDE SAHIB GURU GRANTH SAHIBJI MAHARAJ the SINGHS knew what they were doing?
Not all NIGHANG take bang or alcohol go and ask Nihangs from BUDDHA DAL who have defended Sikh religion and many others at the same are the custodians of this faith. If
you haven't read Dasam Granth Sahib doesn't mean it offers sharad no where in this
Granth you will find references to Alcohol I would recommend you to read this Dasam
Granth and then you will come to know about the reality?
Just by hearing allegations from so called scholars is not going to prove anything? OUR
daily ARDAS IS TAKEN FROM DASAM GRANTH SAHIB FROM CHAPTER-CHANDI DE VAAR? Ardas which is recited all of the over world in Gurudwara Sahib is taken from this Granth and Do you think Guru Sahib will ever mention alcohol or sharad?
If one cannot understand it's meanings doesn't mean their is flaw in Dasam Granth?
This issue is important as their attacks on DASAM GRANTH SAHIB without any reason?
Gurveen ji
All your questions are answered on other threads. Please please read. Another good source of information is this website:
http://www.singhsabhacanada.com/
Regards,
Jasleen
All your questions are answered on other threads. Please please read. Another good source of information is this website:
http://www.singhsabhacanada.com/
Regards,
Jasleen
- Oct 10, 2009
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Gurfateh ji,
I have read all the articles before and this is just not about article it is something which is been well respected and always been part of this religion it is just basic simple fact just mere reading of Dasam Granth Sahib is not going to yield any result. If you don't know about Sikh religion then you should get acquainted with someone else that might
resolve some issues.
And don't try to misprint my name over and over again.
Best Regards
Gurveen Singh
I have read all the articles before and this is just not about article it is something which is been well respected and always been part of this religion it is just basic simple fact just mere reading of Dasam Granth Sahib is not going to yield any result. If you don't know about Sikh religion then you should get acquainted with someone else that might
resolve some issues.
And don't try to misprint my name over and over again.
Best Regards
Gurveen Singh
The first fundamental of Sikh in Asa dee war
Murkh naal na luziye per eho akhar buziye.
Reading and understanding these are two things which makes you understand the fundamental of Sikhinm. I don't think any one has any issue with anyone it's disscusion form and we should all respect that.
No one can change the fact abou Guru Granth Sahib jee please keep your thoughts and views to your self or go to the Akal takhat Sahib in front of Jathedaar's with your Dasam Granth sahib Discussion's. They might can help all of you.
Bhul Chuk Maaf
Gurfatehmotherlylove
- Oct 10, 2009
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Gurfateh ji,
I've only shed some light on few things nothing else and Sahib Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj will always be our Guru I have never said anything regarding that only thing I raised is importance of Dasam Granth Sahib.
One has to be patient enough to listen to somebody and I have given proofs regarding
it. Just look at how Muslims share their ideas in their forums they even discuss the verses of Quran and let their fellow members know and that's why you see they have
strong community. Just look at how Christains discuss about their Bible if their is any
contresival issue and this how you spread the knowledge.
Just by questioning each other the Gurmat will never spread. If you want then let be
this way? You even know what is meaning of Guru in Gurmukhi not in English terminology.
one need to look deep down rather than just giving mere reading on SGGS AND
DASAM GRANTH SAHIB
Best regards
Gurveen Singh
I've only shed some light on few things nothing else and Sahib Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj will always be our Guru I have never said anything regarding that only thing I raised is importance of Dasam Granth Sahib.
One has to be patient enough to listen to somebody and I have given proofs regarding
it. Just look at how Muslims share their ideas in their forums they even discuss the verses of Quran and let their fellow members know and that's why you see they have
strong community. Just look at how Christains discuss about their Bible if their is any
contresival issue and this how you spread the knowledge.
Just by questioning each other the Gurmat will never spread. If you want then let be
this way? You even know what is meaning of Guru in Gurmukhi not in English terminology.
one need to look deep down rather than just giving mere reading on SGGS AND
DASAM GRANTH SAHIB
Best regards
Gurveen Singh
Gurveen Singh Ji,
I will attempt to answer your points as best I can but be prepared to contemplate the answers before answering. Sometimes we receive answers we do not want to hear!
This is not in keeping with the ways the Guru's behaved. Why are only women treacherous? Men can also be treacherous so I do not agree with this point at all. If we follow the way of life set out in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji then we will not need to protect ourselves against treachery from man or woman as that is protection enough! Equal footing is important as Guru ji gave the sexes equality and denying that is ignoring GuruJi. Here is a famous quote from asa ki vaar:
"The Guru transcends sex through sex. Women, says the Guru, are
the centre of life here on earth and in heaven. Man is born of woman; he is wedded to women. How can woman be outside the spiritual court, she who gives birth to the geniuses of this world?
Talking slander, as is done of woman, is to slander one's soul."
So how is dasam granth not going against Guru Granth Sahib ji in this respect?
Exactly it is not possible!! That is why I cannot support the dasam granth being written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Please give original Gurmukhi along with page references so we can check the context of the quotes you give. Taking one line alone distorts what the tuk is trying to say. Also when taking a handful of odd tuks from out of the entire book, you are bound to find a few that agree. That doesn't change the fact that most does not agree. All the other Guru's used Nanak in their bani. Why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji disprespect that and use his own name. Did he not have the same jyot? He did and that is why if he wanted to write bani he woulad have done so in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji under the name Nanak.
Be not worried about scholars and focus on your own path.
But in many other parts of the dasam granth devi worship si put before all else. Look at the writings in their entirety not just at small sections.
There are many parts of the dasam granth that have been copied from various hindu texts:
YouTube - ReaLiTY oF DaSaM GRanTH PaRT - 1
Actually the dasam granth was written later so included words in use at the time.
Incorrect. The messages often conflict therefore it cannot be the writing of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. If he felt that Gurbani needed expanding he would have done so in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Where is the sense in telling us to only follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji then writing a separate granth?
Why would the Guru write something that can't be understood by the masses? I would also urge you to understand both.
Then why are you disputing the supremacy of Sri Guru Granth SahibJ? Why are we arguing over a book?
I have views but do not want to comment on this until the SRM is reviewed. The only thing I'm going to say is that the SRM wa only written in the 20th century and is made by man. It is not as reliable as the Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Do you really believe this story? How does it make any sense? How many times does Sri Guru Granth SahibJ tell us against hiding away from the world like a yogi so why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji go against all that and meditate in the mountains? Sri Guru Granth SahibJ tells us we cannot know about our past or future lives and this includes the Gurus. Sri Guru Granth SahibJ also preaches against ritualistic yatras.
Depends whether the ragis are understanding the kirtan they are singing and following it in their own lives or just doing it to make money. If we make it into a job rather than something all the sangat does then the same attitude will not prevail.
The knowledge goven is not relevant to a Sikh. It was written to confuse and divide Sikhs. More on this later in the post.
They obviously didn't know what they were doing. They completely disrespected Guru Gobind Singh Ji's wishes by placing a book at the same level as our current Guru. You have said that you accept Sri Guru Granth SahibJ, then how can you tolerate such disrespect to your Guru?
The dasam granth references bhang which is worse than alcohol.
Just by hearing emotional arguments about ho it was written by the tenth guru does not prove anything. We each have to make our own conclusions after doing the research.
The ardaas forms one tiny section even including the nitnem banis. That does not mean we have to accept the entire thing, pornography and all. Many pathis who read this say openly that they are ashamed ot read some sections in public. Is that the sign of something written by our Guru?
I have given reasons against all your reasons. the final decision is yours as I have made mine after much effort in understandign its writing.
Actually there are many holes in the history of the dasam granth including the name of it. It did not surface until many years after Guru Gobind Singh Ji was no more. It has been stealthily incorporated into the religion. There are many many sources that will verify this.
I could say the same about you but won't stoop to insults.
As you don't like scholars here is a video by someone who is normal sangat like you and I, who has taken the time to read both the Sri Guru Granth SahibJ and dasam granth:
YouTube - Dasam Granth Exposed Part 1 of 6
I really don't understand why people insist on forcing the dasam granth on others. We should be spending our time on learning and following the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. That takes up a whole lifetime, why get distracted by other things? The message of Sri Guru Granth SahibJ is so wonderful and complete that I really don't need anything else in my life.
I will attempt to answer your points as best I can but be prepared to contemplate the answers before answering. Sometimes we receive answers we do not want to hear!
This is not in keeping with the ways the Guru's behaved. Why are only women treacherous? Men can also be treacherous so I do not agree with this point at all. If we follow the way of life set out in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji then we will not need to protect ourselves against treachery from man or woman as that is protection enough! Equal footing is important as Guru ji gave the sexes equality and denying that is ignoring GuruJi. Here is a famous quote from asa ki vaar:
"The Guru transcends sex through sex. Women, says the Guru, are
the centre of life here on earth and in heaven. Man is born of woman; he is wedded to women. How can woman be outside the spiritual court, she who gives birth to the geniuses of this world?
Talking slander, as is done of woman, is to slander one's soul."
So how is dasam granth not going against Guru Granth Sahib ji in this respect?
Exactly it is not possible!! That is why I cannot support the dasam granth being written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Please give original Gurmukhi along with page references so we can check the context of the quotes you give. Taking one line alone distorts what the tuk is trying to say. Also when taking a handful of odd tuks from out of the entire book, you are bound to find a few that agree. That doesn't change the fact that most does not agree. All the other Guru's used Nanak in their bani. Why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji disprespect that and use his own name. Did he not have the same jyot? He did and that is why if he wanted to write bani he woulad have done so in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji under the name Nanak.
Be not worried about scholars and focus on your own path.
But in many other parts of the dasam granth devi worship si put before all else. Look at the writings in their entirety not just at small sections.
There are many parts of the dasam granth that have been copied from various hindu texts:
YouTube - ReaLiTY oF DaSaM GRanTH PaRT - 1
Actually the existence of this granth does not support your support. As I said above to support the same jyot, the bani would have to be in the Guru granth Sahib Ji under then pen name Nanak. Keeping it separate implies a separate identity which we know would not have been endorsed by Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Also the Guru's did not believe in blood lines. The person was important not their genetic make up as proved by the fact that Guru Nanak Dev Ji chose an unrelated person as his successor rather than his son.
Actually the dasam granth was written later so included words in use at the time.
FACT
YOUR OPINION
Incorrect. The messages often conflict therefore it cannot be the writing of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. If he felt that Gurbani needed expanding he would have done so in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Where is the sense in telling us to only follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji then writing a separate granth?
Why would the Guru write something that can't be understood by the masses? I would also urge you to understand both.
Then why are you disputing the supremacy of Sri Guru Granth SahibJ? Why are we arguing over a book?
I have views but do not want to comment on this until the SRM is reviewed. The only thing I'm going to say is that the SRM wa only written in the 20th century and is made by man. It is not as reliable as the Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Do you really believe this story? How does it make any sense? How many times does Sri Guru Granth SahibJ tell us against hiding away from the world like a yogi so why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji go against all that and meditate in the mountains? Sri Guru Granth SahibJ tells us we cannot know about our past or future lives and this includes the Gurus. Sri Guru Granth SahibJ also preaches against ritualistic yatras.
Depends whether the ragis are understanding the kirtan they are singing and following it in their own lives or just doing it to make money. If we make it into a job rather than something all the sangat does then the same attitude will not prevail.
The knowledge goven is not relevant to a Sikh. It was written to confuse and divide Sikhs. More on this later in the post.
They obviously didn't know what they were doing. They completely disrespected Guru Gobind Singh Ji's wishes by placing a book at the same level as our current Guru. You have said that you accept Sri Guru Granth SahibJ, then how can you tolerate such disrespect to your Guru?
The dasam granth references bhang which is worse than alcohol.
Just by hearing emotional arguments about ho it was written by the tenth guru does not prove anything. We each have to make our own conclusions after doing the research.
The ardaas forms one tiny section even including the nitnem banis. That does not mean we have to accept the entire thing, pornography and all. Many pathis who read this say openly that they are ashamed ot read some sections in public. Is that the sign of something written by our Guru?
I have given reasons against all your reasons. the final decision is yours as I have made mine after much effort in understandign its writing.
Actually there are many holes in the history of the dasam granth including the name of it. It did not surface until many years after Guru Gobind Singh Ji was no more. It has been stealthily incorporated into the religion. There are many many sources that will verify this.
I could say the same about you but won't stoop to insults.
As you don't like scholars here is a video by someone who is normal sangat like you and I, who has taken the time to read both the Sri Guru Granth SahibJ and dasam granth:
YouTube - Dasam Granth Exposed Part 1 of 6
I really don't understand why people insist on forcing the dasam granth on others. We should be spending our time on learning and following the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. That takes up a whole lifetime, why get distracted by other things? The message of Sri Guru Granth SahibJ is so wonderful and complete that I really don't need anything else in my life.
- Oct 10, 2009
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Gurfateh ji,
I'll answer you're queries in my next article and whatever videos you have posted are just proving their side of the story and Dasam Granth Sahib is not taken from Markhande Puran and is neither against Sahib Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
If you don't know about something then don't criticize without any reason Sukha Singh
and Mehtab Singh stopped the desecration of Harmandar Sahib where women were dancing and sharing drinks but they taught Massar Rangar a Lesson and prakash was
done. Those Singhs knew what they were doing and had better idea from all of us.
Dasam Granth does not support the idea of yogi I don't know from where you have got
this idea actually it is not in favour of at all but if you think respecting Dasam Granth
Sahib is an insult to Sahib Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and this is not an emotional
statement as you're claiming then go ask Nihangs for last 300 years they have recited
Dasam Granth ask them then you can ask you're self claims to have better knowledge
of Sikhi than Them?
Dasam Granth neither support the idea of Devi or Durga and I will provide ample proofs
for it weather you like it or not?
Best Regards
Gurveen Singh
I'll answer you're queries in my next article and whatever videos you have posted are just proving their side of the story and Dasam Granth Sahib is not taken from Markhande Puran and is neither against Sahib Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
If you don't know about something then don't criticize without any reason Sukha Singh
and Mehtab Singh stopped the desecration of Harmandar Sahib where women were dancing and sharing drinks but they taught Massar Rangar a Lesson and prakash was
done. Those Singhs knew what they were doing and had better idea from all of us.
Dasam Granth does not support the idea of yogi I don't know from where you have got
this idea actually it is not in favour of at all but if you think respecting Dasam Granth
Sahib is an insult to Sahib Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and this is not an emotional
statement as you're claiming then go ask Nihangs for last 300 years they have recited
Dasam Granth ask them then you can ask you're self claims to have better knowledge
of Sikhi than Them?
Dasam Granth neither support the idea of Devi or Durga and I will provide ample proofs
for it weather you like it or not?
Best Regards
Gurveen Singh
Gurveen Ji,
I think we have to agree to disagree as obviously neither of us will change our stance. I have done all the studying of the subject I need and it remains for you to be happy with your decision.
Ultimately as you have agreed the Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our ONLY Guru so arguing over another book doesn't help anyone. I am dedicating my life to my ONLY Guru so do not want to waste anymore time on this fruitlesss topic. Whether anyone accepts the dasam granth or not is personal choice as per their understanding of Gurmat. I personally do not need anything/anyone other than the Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Best,
Jasleen
gurveen1 jio
Here is why people have problems with this Granth.
1. The "Dasam Granth" as it is called did not exist before 1902.
2. Through most of the 19th Century, some chapters now in the current granth were bound together under a variety of different titles. All name changes have been covered in various threads here. When these various pothis were compared by scholars there was great divergence in the actual hymns that were common to all pothis. Also covered in various threads here.
3. The very first specimen for what was later to be called the Dasam Granth did not surface until 1803 as part of a shipment of Sikh "relics" to England from the British East India Company.
4. At best, the consensus of scholars is that only about 50 pages of what we now consider "Dasam Granth" might be from the pen of Dasam Pita. And now much of that is under review.
5. Various sectors within Sikhi, such as the Nihang, have adopted various hymns as authentic because these hymns bolster their historical identity. Please keep in mind that Nihangs pre-date Guru Gobind Singh himself and came to khande de pahul at the first Vaisaki. Though it seems they were allies of our Gurus before Dasam Pita, it is not clear what their spiritual adherence was before that time. However, is clear that their symbology includes Hindu myth and legend. Nihangs are one of historical traditions (sampardaya) within Sikhi. They do not define Sikhi.
- Oct 10, 2009
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Gurfateh ji,
I don't want to force this discussion on anyone if you're interested so their is no point for me to keep on for the matter of fact is this all the jathedars of DamDami Taksal have recited this granth including Baba Deep Singh ji so you can consider yourself have better
knowledge than them. In recent times Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhinderwale never said
any thing about this granth and everybody accepted it and that time no scholar said
a word against Dasam Granth in 1980's why now?
For you're kind info scholars have no place in Sikhi either in Dasam Granth Sahib or SGGS
Dasam Granth terms scholars as " MOORKH VIDVAN" same message is given in SGGS
a scholar may write and fill up 4 pages for one line but here is the difference in just 2
words scholars have been shown their real picture? That's the literal masterpiece written
by Tenth Master.
I would completely disagree the reasons which says that Dasam Granth Sahib was written in 1902. Tenth Master during his stay in poanta Sahib, Anandpur Sahib and Nanded wrote all the banis during his life time asked Bhai Mani Singh ji to compiled it.
I really don't care if you beleive in this Granth or not But when these lines were found
In DASAM GRANTH SAHIB
" I ONLY SPEAK THAT WHICH THE LORD HATH SAID,
I DO NOT YIELD TO ANYONE ELSE"
SAHIB GURU GOBIND SINGH JI MAHARAJ ( DASAM GRANTH)
Tenth master himself says I only speak what Lord has commanded me this is no ordinary
scholarly work. For you're kind info Tenth Master explains how previous gods and goddesses left their true path and started their own worship it is all their in Dasam
Granth.
This is quite ironic Muslims have always have 3 books rather than Quran to understand
at what their prophet revealed their verses and explained the situation to have better
understanding all the religions do that but no one criticizes their own religious book
here people seems to have some problem without any understanding.
NIHANGS ARE PART OF THIS RELIGION AND ALWAYS WILL BE IT'S TIME TO LOOK AT
OUR TRADITION IN SITE OF POSITIVITY INSTEAD OF RUNNING AWAY FROM IT.
BEST REGARDS
GURVEEN SINGH
I don't want to force this discussion on anyone if you're interested so their is no point for me to keep on for the matter of fact is this all the jathedars of DamDami Taksal have recited this granth including Baba Deep Singh ji so you can consider yourself have better
knowledge than them. In recent times Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhinderwale never said
any thing about this granth and everybody accepted it and that time no scholar said
a word against Dasam Granth in 1980's why now?
For you're kind info scholars have no place in Sikhi either in Dasam Granth Sahib or SGGS
Dasam Granth terms scholars as " MOORKH VIDVAN" same message is given in SGGS
a scholar may write and fill up 4 pages for one line but here is the difference in just 2
words scholars have been shown their real picture? That's the literal masterpiece written
by Tenth Master.
I would completely disagree the reasons which says that Dasam Granth Sahib was written in 1902. Tenth Master during his stay in poanta Sahib, Anandpur Sahib and Nanded wrote all the banis during his life time asked Bhai Mani Singh ji to compiled it.
I really don't care if you beleive in this Granth or not But when these lines were found
In DASAM GRANTH SAHIB
" I ONLY SPEAK THAT WHICH THE LORD HATH SAID,
I DO NOT YIELD TO ANYONE ELSE"
SAHIB GURU GOBIND SINGH JI MAHARAJ ( DASAM GRANTH)
Tenth master himself says I only speak what Lord has commanded me this is no ordinary
scholarly work. For you're kind info Tenth Master explains how previous gods and goddesses left their true path and started their own worship it is all their in Dasam
Granth.
This is quite ironic Muslims have always have 3 books rather than Quran to understand
at what their prophet revealed their verses and explained the situation to have better
understanding all the religions do that but no one criticizes their own religious book
here people seems to have some problem without any understanding.
NIHANGS ARE PART OF THIS RELIGION AND ALWAYS WILL BE IT'S TIME TO LOOK AT
OUR TRADITION IN SITE OF POSITIVITY INSTEAD OF RUNNING AWAY FROM IT.
BEST REGARDS
GURVEEN SINGH
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