aristotle
SPNer
Sikhs don't tell people of other religions what to do. Nor do we proselytize or forcibly convert people of other religions, or call them by demeaning names.
Islam Difference In Bowing Head In Front Of Guru Granth Sahib And Idol Worship
- Thread starter arshdeep88
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riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
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neither we say.but what wrong is wrong.and truth must be said
aristotle
SPNer
The right thing is that everyone should be allowed to follow the religion they want to, not in the fear of getting murdered for disbelief in a particular religion.
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
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yeah if it is a true religion
aristotle
SPNer
Perhaps tolerance towards other religions is too much a task for you. Believing religions other than one's own to be 'false' is outright narcissism.
riskygujjar
You have just confirmed the worst suspicions. Islam cannot be a religion of peace and tolerance if Islam is peaceful and tolerant only to religions that have its prior approval, and according to conditions given by Islam.
The Quran contradicts itself on this point. It is very easy for members of other religions to be seen as heretics as set by the Quran. In turn, that makes it perfectly acceptable for Muslims to wreak havoc in the lives of the "non-believers." This may make sense to you, given that violence against "heretics" is logically consistent with the Quran. However, to many others it is plain hypocrisy and possibly even paranoid.
Think about it. How is it possible that Islam is peaceful and tolerant, but only if there is 100 percent compliance with principles of Islam? Even Sufis have not escaped from the misfortunes that come from this trap of circular thinking. The entire system is set up using a term from boxing - "to rope a dope." There is nothing logical about it if the non-Muslim has to agree to the basic assumptions of Islam before any meeting of minds is possible.
Frankly I am never clear as to how anything meaningful can come from discussions like these.
You have just confirmed the worst suspicions. Islam cannot be a religion of peace and tolerance if Islam is peaceful and tolerant only to religions that have its prior approval, and according to conditions given by Islam.
The Quran contradicts itself on this point. It is very easy for members of other religions to be seen as heretics as set by the Quran. In turn, that makes it perfectly acceptable for Muslims to wreak havoc in the lives of the "non-believers." This may make sense to you, given that violence against "heretics" is logically consistent with the Quran. However, to many others it is plain hypocrisy and possibly even paranoid.
Think about it. How is it possible that Islam is peaceful and tolerant, but only if there is 100 percent compliance with principles of Islam? Even Sufis have not escaped from the misfortunes that come from this trap of circular thinking. The entire system is set up using a term from boxing - "to rope a dope." There is nothing logical about it if the non-Muslim has to agree to the basic assumptions of Islam before any meeting of minds is possible.
Frankly I am never clear as to how anything meaningful can come from discussions like these.
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
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yeah we dont tolerate invoking parteners with god.
and this is the only that god wont forgive
and this is the only that god wont forgive
What are you saying?
aristotle
SPNer
And so you take the liberty of calling them infidels, force them to pay Jaziya tax and chalk out punishments for them.
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
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we call kaafir or infidels to other people.it means disbeliever.
one who dont believe.
if u dont belive in something we do surely u are a disbeliver.
whats wrong in that?
to pay jaziya who is asking jaziya?u are talking of something which happened in those war times.
at that time 360 idols were worshipped in mecca.prophet mohammad was famous for his honesty at that time.and when the quran was sent down on him and he warned the people not to invoke partners with allah and about consquences that will occur on judgement day or u can say after life.
they went against him.1. Say (O Muhammad () to these Mushrikun and Kafirun): "O Al-Kafirun (disbelievers in Allah, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar, etc.)!
2. "I worship not that which you worship,
3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
4. "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism).
one who dont believe.
if u dont belive in something we do surely u are a disbeliver.
whats wrong in that?
to pay jaziya who is asking jaziya?u are talking of something which happened in those war times.
at that time 360 idols were worshipped in mecca.prophet mohammad was famous for his honesty at that time.and when the quran was sent down on him and he warned the people not to invoke partners with allah and about consquences that will occur on judgement day or u can say after life.
they went against him.1. Say (O Muhammad () to these Mushrikun and Kafirun): "O Al-Kafirun (disbelievers in Allah, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar, etc.)!
2. "I worship not that which you worship,
3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
4. "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism).
aristotle
SPNer
Well, Jaziya was levied in India by the Mughals as near in the past as the 19th century Ad. Even in the present times Jaziya is imposed in Taliban occupied areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan under banner of the Shariah law.
Moreover, you cannot shy away from these facts when the Hadiths have clear and word-by-word instructions to impose Jaziya on Non-Muslims, it isn't specified that it is to be imposed only in times of war.
aristotle
SPNer
Then are you okay with Christians calling Muslims infidels and disbelievers because you don't believe in Christianity and baptism?
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
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i believe in bible and jesus and all the prophets and their books.
all muslims do.
we have to believe in all the books all prophets angels and day of resurrection.that is a part of our faith.
but the books before quran were changed by the people.they became corrupted.
all muslims do.
we have to believe in all the books all prophets angels and day of resurrection.that is a part of our faith.
but the books before quran were changed by the people.they became corrupted.
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
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whoever in power is they impose tax to others?seems right to me.
ok jaziya they imposed on others,but u are something they also protected them at time of war.
ok jaziya they imposed on others,but u are something they also protected them at time of war.
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
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dont u pay tax to government for there services?
if they asked for jaziya they would also protect them its not like they would run with their money
if they asked for jaziya they would also protect them its not like they would run with their money
aristotle
SPNer
We pay taxes irrespective of religion.
Jaziya is a discriminatory tax imposed only on Non-Muslims. Don't try to institutionalise discrimination.
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
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Under Islamic law, jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جزية ǧizyah IPA: [dʒizja]; Ottoman Turkish: cizye
is a per capita tax levied on a section of an Islamic state's non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria. The tax is and was to be levied on able-bodied adult males of military age and affording power[1] (but with specific exemptions).[2][3] From the point of view of the Muslim rulers, jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws, "just as for the inhabitants it was a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes."[4] In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to the Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, and to be exempted from military service and the zakat taxes obligatory upon Muslim citizens.[5][6]
is a per capita tax levied on a section of an Islamic state's non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria. The tax is and was to be levied on able-bodied adult males of military age and affording power[1] (but with specific exemptions).[2][3] From the point of view of the Muslim rulers, jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws, "just as for the inhabitants it was a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes."[4] In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to the Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, and to be exempted from military service and the zakat taxes obligatory upon Muslim citizens.[5][6]riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
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i just dont understand your mindset.its fine with u if hindus ask for tax from hindus any other person.but when muslims ask u think its bad?
i dont get it.
i dont get it.
aristotle
SPNer
I will be offended if Hindus extort taxes from me for being a Sikh, but they don't; instead Muslims do that in name of Jizya in areas where Shariah law is operative.
Taxes are to be payed as a contribution to the Government, not as a penalty for not being a Muslim.
I don't understand your mindset either. How you rationalise this huge discrimination on basis of religion is beyond my understanding.
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
- 9
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tell me what problem do u have ?
u have problem with muslim asking taxes from non muslims or just because they are asking taxes?
and u have to pay.
u are ready to give taxes to government but not to muslims.
u have problem with muslim asking taxes from non muslims or just because they are asking taxes?
and u have to pay.
u are ready to give taxes to government but not to muslims.
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