Hinduism Do Animals Have A Soul? Why Do Many Sikhs Eat Meat?

[amarjit singh bamrah]

We have most of us forgotten the importance of Our Saints and Sages and Guru teachings.
Its not about what others do or not do.
Its how we - we- can merge with the divine.

To merge with the divine first and foremost is
Compassion

Not only for Humans animals but also for inert things

Everything every atom of creation has a soul.

I have seen this time and time again.

Its when the inner Temple of God within us we start awakening to
out God head within.

This is what the Sages teach.

Its not for us to judge if another person eats meat or does not eat meat.

They all have their own path to lead!

What does our inner conscience tell us.
How do we awake our inner voice.

The voice of God.

Only by grace of a Guru or By Meditation / Samadhi.



Even vegetables and food grains have souls.

''Each particle of grain
Same spirit doth contain.
Each leaf thou pluckest, O gardener's dame.
Hath selfsame soul in God's own name''
Sant Kabir ji​

 

[Harry Haller]

Amarjitji,

If you have found peace in this, than I am not one to say that is wrong, however, as a follower of Sai Baba, how do you reconcile your faith in Sai Baba and Sikhi?, bearing in mind you are in some ways paying homage to two masters.

As for souls, I believe in a world where the cycle of life keeps rolling, I have actually since sunday decided not to eat processed food anymore, however, just as a banana is part of Creation, and eating one gives me much pleasure in its simplicity, so does beef and pork, however, what I am also avoiding is fancy food, I like my meat simple, with some bread, no sauces, no spices, maybe a bit of garlic, to me the key is respect for what you eat, and respect for the way it has arrived at your table

I leave you with a joke

A missionary was walking in Africa when he heard the ominous sound of a lion behind him. "Oh Lord," prayed the missionary, "Grant in Thy goodness that the lion walking behind me is a good Christian lion." And then, in the silence that followed, the missionary heard the lion praying too: "Oh Lord," he prayed, "We thank Thee for the food which we are about to receive."

 

[BaljinderS]

Amarjit veer ji... your below comments. Can you please elaborate on " in our Gurbani its clearly mentioned that we evolve from Animals into a Human"? Are you implying that the soul is physical entity which when killed it will be destroyed? Where in gurbani does it say that there was animals then came the humans?

//please dont feel this is a attack, I am trying to learn and discover much as you are//

----------------
One point we must remember is in our Gurbani its clearly mentioned that we evolve from Animals into a Human.
If we have evolved from an Animal into a Human then the same soul also
existed in our previous incarnation as an animal.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

listen to a few kathas of Prof Dhunda Ji..on you-tube....
he does the correct katha of Gurbani...
In one he proveshow we TRANSFORM into "ANIMALS" daily..many many times...KARTOOT PASU KI..Manas JAAT ( we LOOK HUMAN..but inside of us we have so many Animals !!)
The Elephant is Kaami....and the HUMAN who LUSTS fater every woman he sees like the MAST ELEPHANT CRAZY with lust...now isnt that KARTOOT Pasu ki (elep[hant)..BUT we still remain HUMAN..our SOUL is HUMAN..BUT our Kartoot are ANIMAL...and GUIRBANI says THIS !!
How about LOBH....like the DOG...or one who is ADDICTED to his TONGUE/TASTE....Gurbani gives example fo FISH..who commits suicide due to this addiction...how about the CROW...the VISHTA living Microbes..Bacteria...GURBANI is full fo examples of our ANIMAL JOONS....
But we still wear the OLD REJECTED spectacles of vedic "half truths"..and go on talking about kutta joot and gai joon..or saap dee joon..blah blah blah..AFTER WE DIE...GURSIKHO..YOu transform into the SNAKE the moment you LOCK yoru "Safe deposit box"...your accounts..yopur Jewels !!! You DONT have to DIE to become a snake and sit on that wealth...ha ha...LOOK with OPEN EYES..USE the GYAAN KHARRAGH to cut yoru LIES..beleifs..wrong notions of after death/swarag/narak etc which NO BODY has ever seen or coem back....READ what Gurbani has to say about COMING BACK....its all a load of Buffalo Bull GOHA !!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Ambarsariah Ji..well said.
The whole "AGENDA" is to destroy GURMATT....it began in 1474 with the attempt to put the "string" around Guru nanak jis Neck..( it starts with a Ja...and ends with eU.." i forget !!)...and Guru Nanak ji at age REJECTED the string..syaing whats the use of a string that gets dirty, can be replaced..is separative and disruptive to humanity..why not give me a permanenet THREAD made of daya sach..santokh Compassion truth contentment...OF Course the wily "Thread putter" ( B and ends with N..a. .k. a starts with P and ends with T) didnt have such a THREAD....so he left humilaited and revngeful..plotting to teach the balak-Nanak a lesson...the Vendetta continues..550 years ON !!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Amarjit Bhamrah Ji..
we SIKHS have THE GURU ( we dont need "a" guru as you wrote)..and The SGGS is Complete in ALL RESPECTS while avoiding all human guru failings...!!! we dont need "sages" to tell us anything..THE GURU SGGS tells us everything..we need to know...anyone else is welcome to all the sages and vedics and pandits etc he wants...

 

[BaljinderS]

While on the subject of animals.... I absolutely love animals and always have since I can remember (always reading about animals,watching documentaries, gardening etc) and have wealth of knowledge about animal welfare. I researched for about two years before I got my parrot (very intelligent things).

I always eat free range meat, eggs etc... along with lot and lots of vegetables. Meat is acidic so it has to be eaten with a balanced diet.

One thing I don't like is how animals are treated for meat consumption, that's why I buy free range and cook it myself. If I was to give up meat, it would be purely because of how some animals are farmed.

With the farming methods in the 20th century (use of pesticides, fertilisers) has drastically impacted wild life so you are indirectly killing animals even when eating vegetables (unless you eat just organic). It really does hurt me to see how forests are being chopped down to feed the human greed!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Baljinder Ji..the anti-meat lobby has nothing to do with "compassion"....and GURU NANAK JI sahib were the first to see this....read in Asa Ki vaar How Guru Ji EXPOSES the Wily Pandit who mistreats the Cow..But uses its waste product to "purify" his cooking place..kitchen !! Guur nanak ji si so blunt..the Brahmin has absolutley NO COMPASSION for the living cow..but..he expects to..swim across the ocean of Maya using the GOBAR...cow-excreta !! Gobar taran na jayee declared nanak !!
I am aware of how naimals are mistreated in abbatoirs,,farms etc..the word "mistreatment" is very MILD....its CRUELTY beyond DESCRIPTION...and sickens the heart...I am one of the strongest supporters of the ANTI-MEAT NGOS worldwide...and I LOVE my dogs more than my own kids...i may NOT give my Ice cream cone...or my Pizza share..or my chicken drumstick..or my ghee paratha... to my kid..BUT I will definitely give it to one of my dogs if he/she asks !!....becasue the dogs give me UNCONDITIONAL LOVE !! and I know it....I felt so bad on my viists to Punajb/Delhi etc..and saw for myslef how the Average Indian TREATS the scavenger COWS....and dogs on its roads...so very touching becasue India is a Vegan nation...but the same type as Guru Nanak ji saw and wrote about in asa di vaar !!....NOTHING has chaNGED..ITS STILL DUPLICITY..AND CHEATING...UTTER HOLY WORDS AND CUT THROATS...asaNKH GALL WAADH HATIAH KAMAI....AND THIS gURBANI IS not JUST ABOUT ANIMAL THROATS..its also about HUMAN THROATS..being CUT via corruption..rishwatkhoree, milawat in food..fake goods..etc etc..all this is DRINKING HUMAN BLOOD..Je RATT peevehn MAANSA !! as Guru nanak ji saw and wrote !!!

Read the following Brilliant Article by Gurmat Gyan Missionary College Ludhiana Princiapal Prof Gurbachan Singh ji Thailand walleh...http://www.sikhmarg.com/2009/0412-ziodian-joona-vich01.html
and part Two...http://www.sikhmarg.com/2009/0419-ziodian-joona-vich02.html

LISTEN to Prof Dhunda Ji explain Bhagat Kabir Ji on ANIMALS in HUMAN CLOTHING !!
BHAI SARABJIT SINGH DHUNDA 31 JULY 2011 - YouTube

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

as far as i know..99% of EGGS sold are UNFERTILISED !! So what LIFE is being killed ??
90% of MALE CHICKS are Ground into feed at one day old...becasue its a wasted resource...only Females are kept for EGG production in which NO ROOSTERS are allowed.
It is a unpleasnat fact that while the SAME "unfertilised" egg discarded by Human Females is called menstraution and becasue of that the woman is considered unclean by some rleigious bigots..but the same "unfertilised" egg expelled by the chicken is food !!..its just a matter of perception !!one mans meat is anothers poison..fact of life...and THATS WHY our wise GURUS IGNORED this..as its Got absolutley NOTHING to do with Dharam. compassion,..etc etc...Dharam Dya compassion is PRACTICAL GURMATT as taught in GURBANI.

 

[amarjit singh bamrah]

LESSONS FROM GOD
.




One lovely day after a meditation class in Central London, I was really enjoying
eating my Fish sandwich, Yummy its delicious I thought to myself.
.


Babaji materialized in the Middle of London
and spoke, "Amarjit, what you are eating has a soul,
.


Raise your compassion, can't you hear the cries of the animal you are eating.
Every particle of the delicious morsel you are
eating has torment, Extreme suffering and heartache in it.
.
How can you say you love God when
you eat animal's".
.


At this period I had no compassion for animals
to me they were delicious food.
What Babaji said to me shook me to my core

The words had a huge impact on my heart and opened this wide
I could actually hear the torment of the animals.
..

.
I left meat and started eating Egg sandwiches,


Babaji appeared again a few days later and said, "Amarjit you are now eating a Baby soul
and all its suffering.
.
Have you no compassion for God, if you want to follow my
path refrain from eating animals".
.
"The suffering they go through
I feel for - they are my children too,
do you want this Karma to follow you life time after life time!" .
.Have we ever wondered why Gurudwaras are Vegetarian

Does Babaji allow meat and chickens here

Baba told me do not look to the egg which may be fertile or infertile.
.

Look at the mother of the egg and the suffering she has gone through
.

Every anguish of the mother hen and father {censored}rel
has permeated into the egg
.
http://search.aol.com/aol/imageDeta...me+look&imgSize=97096&hostName=www.flickr.comhttp://search.aol.com/aol/imageDeta...me+look&imgSize=97096&hostName=www.flickr.com
http://search.aol.com/aol/imageDeta...Size=43125&hostName=www.backyardch ickens.comhttp://search.aol.com/aol/imageDeta...gSize=18230&hostName=www.backyardchickens.com

This is what you are eating
.

The suffering of the generations
The suffering of the Mother and the father
.
The Vibrations of the suffering.

You are vibration they are vibration.
.


amarjit
.

Click here: The true cost of cheap chicken - Home News, UK - The Independent




to be continued:

 

[Ambarsaria]

Veer Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji thanks for your posts.

You quote the following in your post,

''Each particle of grain
Same spirit doth contain.
Each leaf thou pluckest, O gardener's dame.
Hath selfsame soul in God's own name''
Sant Kabir ji

Does not the above clearly tell you that food is food and there is no difference between grain or meat. To me it does.

You may want to post the complete sabad as per spn TOS as that is what is required. It will be good learning and discussion for all.
​

Veer Amarji Singh Bamrah ji I sincerely suggest that you move or delete the above post. The better place for such even a thread perhaps is in the following as you have contributed to the Nanaksar thread,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sects-groups-cults/

It is gol mol (trickery) propaganda with material borrowed from here and there without ascribing the sources or keeping the source references in correct context. Sikhism is so rich that you can take one sabad and start a dehra by mis-interpreting, extending and adding marketing magic to it. It continues to be done. These are just shops which exploit and nothing more.

Just one comment. Have you seen prakash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at their Dehra lately? Sikh garb to deceive Sikhism can not be founded on sincerity, wisdom or higher moral values. Look at the organization chart below, it is a business,

​

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

to some people ....Glass beads always look more shining than diamonds....
But there ARE a few things i do like about the Beas Dera...Sirsa Dera..Asutosh Deras..etc etc....THE "congregations" at these places NEVER hold Huge "Kirtan darbars" ( essentially copy-cat behaviour of Rock concerts Michael jackson/Elvis Presley style of MASS GATHERINGS ONLY with No other purpose than to ENTERTAIN !! No dharam..no Mission..No teaching...NOTHING but entertainment and enjoy yourself )
2. Secondly I havent yet come across Yelling Babies, small kids yelling and playing in the congregation and cauisng a ruckus..or ladies Gossipping away at full speed...EACH person is an ADULT, seated comfortably and LISTENING RAPTLY to the DERA HEAD giivng his discourse. no Noise..no gosspiing..no mobile phones ringing etc etc..and certianly none "taking a nap" or sleeping !!

There are a FEW MORE habits of the sangats at these DERAS that I LIKE...HABITS that should be in SIKH SANGATS/SIKH GURDWARAS/SIKH KIRTAN samagams/sikh paaths..etc BUT are NOT !!japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:

 

[Harry Haller]

Babaji materialized in the Middle of London
and spoke, "Amarjit, what you are eating has a soul,
.

Amarjitji

My views are 180 degrees away from yours, however, everything is an education, I have asked you once already, could you please clarify which Babaji you talk about when you mention these words, so that I may fully understand your position, thank you

 

[amarjit singh bamrah]

.
Sat Naam Waheguru
.
LESSONS FROM GOD = GURU NANAK, JESUS, KRISHNA,
.
I bow down to the God within you, for we are truly blessed to have earthly
angels as friends.
.

My journey started when I had Darshan from Guru Nanak Devji, He stood in front of me
on a huge winding Path which was white in colour. I bowed down to his Almighty prescence.

Babaji told me that in different ages Gods messengers take human birth to stop the humans from descending further into evil ( Kalyug).
.

I have come to pass you on to your teachers in this life time.
Babaji spoke,
"Amarjit, There is only one religion, the religion of LOVE,
See God in all and everything.
When you learn to Love all creation, just as you love God you will have realisation!".
He then disappeared.
.
A while later, I started learning Meditation and Mediumship in the college of
Psychic Studies in London. Later I realised this was a direct influence of my Master Babaji.

Without awakening our God head we stay in the lower conciousness, ungrounded, and making our own decisions

When we tap into Gods infinte power through meditaion and samadhi we also allow the voice of God to speak within us.

As soon as EGO comes in God will leave you and you will be on your own!

EGO edging God Outwards.
.
.I forgot all about this and carried on my prayers and deep Samadhi.
Then Jesus started appearing to me.

...

At our aircraft hangar and everywhere Then the worst scenario happened
Mother Mary started appearing with him.
...

By now I was very disturbed. I had a huge argument with Jesus and Mother Mary and said go away
I am a Sikh do not try to convert me.

They left.
.

Shortly after Both Guru Nanak Devji and Krishan Maharaj appeared to me and said Amarjit all the Masters, Jesus, Kabir, Krishna, Rama, and other Avtaars are the same divine energy of God.
Listen to their message. Do not be stuck in Religion.
.

Then I realised

Their message is the same - Love for God and see God in all.

Many scriptures have been altered over the years to suit the Ego and to create control over the people. Much of this is done by making people live in fear of God.
.
.There is only one religion of God and this is Love.
.
Amarjit respect everyone the sinners and others alike.
Most of all Learn not to Judges others Lest you be judged
.
For God's light shines in all.

(Simaltenously Guru Nanak Devji and Krishna Maharaj also apeared to my Chief Engineer Ashley (Christian) and my customer (Bob Garrertson) and told them give the same message to Singh.)
.
After this I have had many darshans from various Holy Saints who have materialised in front of me in meditation or in real life, Maharaj Charan Singh, Sai Baba, Ganesh, Pramahansa Yogananda, Mahaavatar Babaji, and different Gurus and I have also been blessed by Angels.

My Interview (Innerview) with Babaji:
.
Babaji appeared to me sittiing on top
of a Hill.

He looked down to me and spoke gently :
The Path to God realisation is very difficult
This path you have chosen is fraught with danger.
.
For on this path you will be shadowed and
stalked by the
Dark forces, your, Karma, Temptations, Lust, Ego, Pride, Greed, Anger, Jealousy
& your conditioning from your Past lives and much more............

they will all try to stop you, all the time
.
Amarjit, are you sure you want to follow this path to God.


Yes Babaji I want to merge with God with all my heart.
As I climbed the Hill towards Babaji all around me were
spirits & demons trying to stop me.
.
.Okay, But remember on this Path you will be on your own!..
.
.And then the Trials Tribulations and Lessons from God started......
.
.God does not Judge! for we have our free will
What ever we preach good or bad
Is our Karma
We reap what we sow!

PS : Do spirits and Bhoots exist.
Yes they do we have carried out hundreds of excorsims in the last 15 years to help many people.

Guru nanak appeared to me in the Gurudwara in Southall, spoke"Amarjit, Help this family their son has a spirit inside him help him, then Further Lessons from God started , how to help this Gursikh family,

Bhoots & Spirits they exist. They are all around us.

The Dimension between our world which we see with our closed eyes and the other dimensions is very fragile.

They come in to our energy field through our Vices, like EGO,Temptations, Lust, Ego, Pride, Greed, Anger, Jealousy .

Amarjit

 

[Harry Haller]

Amarjitji,

Many thanks for clarification, it helps to know where you are coming from, I disagree with huge tracts of your post, however, it is not for me to correct you anymore than it is for you to correct me.

I also agree strongly with some of your opinions, those that are consistent with my understanding of Sikhi.

I would respectfully ask that we do not get bogged down with how you arrived at your conclusions, but more importantly the conclusions themselves, otherwise we are going to spend all day disagreeing with one another on irrelevancies, meat, spirits, ghosts etc.

Let us join in what holds us together as brothers and find common ground

 

[amarjit singh bamrah]

Waheguru

It would be good to know what tracts of my post you disagree with

amarjit

 

[Harry Haller]

Amarjitji,

God= Guru Nanak, Jesus, Krishna,
uhmm to me God=Creator, I think enlightened individuals have managed to tune into God, but that does not make them God.

Earthly angles, no, don't buy that one either, no angels, no heavenly intervention, judgement is given through consequences of actions


"Amarjit, There is only one religion, the religion of LOVE,
See God in all and everything.
When you learn to Love all creation, just as you love God you will have realisation!". completely agree

I agree with your comments on Ego..

Do not be stuck in religion......

Amarjitji, to me religion is all I have, I do not have the luxury in believing in everything and all religions. That , in my view, does not make me a Sikh, it makes me a child of the world, but it would also remove my ability to put forward a Sikh point of view

past lives-I do not believe in reincarnation, I believe you are reborn through experience in this life, so I was born, and I will die, period, thats it,

Merging with God, how can we merge with God, when God is already within us, the term I favour is vibrating to the same frequency as God, hearing God's voice, and following God's direction, a connection

The only spirits and demons I believe in are the thieves in our heads, but I also believe they can be put to good use.

I do not believe in sprits or bhoots or demonic possession

Guru nanak appeared to me in the Gurudwara in Southall, spoke"Amarjit, Help this family their son has a spirit inside him help him, then Further Lessons from God started , how to help this Gursikh family,

Strongly disagree, we gave to find our own solutions to our problems through Bani, not in Abrahamic casting out of demons, I find this takes people away from the true message and makes Babas out of others

Respectfully

Harry

 

[Seeker9]

I have found this an interesting read and have some general questions for everyone in no particular order:

1) Where do the "Bhoots" and spirit forms fit in the so called 84 lakh joon?

2) Do animals have spirit counterparts as well? Like a ghost elephant or lion?
If not why not?

3) Seeing we have been talking about other Teachers on this thread, what do you make of this:
Matthew 15:
"Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3 Jesus replied, “..............

............. 8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’[c]”

10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”

4) Jesus fed the 500 with fish didn't he? So was Jesus, one of the quoted teachers in this thread, committing a great sin?


5) A lifelong vegan serial killer is still a serial killer...........is he not?

And finally, to quote that well known (in the Uk) comedian Peter Kay:
"If we aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?"

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

And finally, to quote that well known (in the Uk) comedian Peter Kay:
"If we aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?"............

Ha Ha Ha.....so is Cannibalism OK too ??? after all humans are also made of "meat".. Ha ha ha

 

[Ambarsaria]

Isn't this whole thing and discussion futile going down in value over time. Let us review one of the articles,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Artificial Meat 6 Months Away, Hamburger In A Year, Say Scientists

Synthetic meat may not sound too appetizing, but scientists at the University of Maastricht in the Netherlands say a lab grown sausage is just six months away, reports The Telegraph.

In the latest artificial meat experiment, scientists have grown synthetic sausages from pig cells fed by horse serum, reports The Herald Sun.

But it's not just bio-engineering sausages scientists are experimenting with. Dutch scientist Dr. Mark Post, who led the research, predicts other lab grown meat could be on its way, too."I'm hopeful we can have a hamburger in a year," he told The New Scientist. But that could cost over $350,000 (250,000 euros) to develop, reports The Telegraph.

Yet there are a couple of barriers to this incredible invention. According to the Herald Sun, the color of the meat is white due to the lack of blood and as a result it doesn't look very appetizing.

The concept of home grown meat is nothing new. Reuters reported in January that a developmental biologist and tissue engineer, Dr. Mironov, 56, is one of the few scientists who's been bioengineering "cultured" meat for the past decade.

It seems fitting that Dutch food scientists are the latest group of researchers to move closer to slaughter free meat, especially since the idea first originated in their home country. According to a Michael Specter's Test Tube Burgers article in the New Yorker, the thought of growing your own meat was first born from Dutch World War II veteran veteran Willem van Eelen:

After the war, he studied psychology at the University of Amsterdam, but he struggled with the intertwined memories of starvation and animal abuse in the camps. At one lecture, he was seized by an idea: "Why can't we grow meat outside of the body? Make it in a laboratory, as we make so many other things."​

Though this current Dutch grown sausage is not yet approved for human consumption, environmentalists who've taken up a meat-free lifestyle may find themselves in an interesting position when this synthetic phenomenon comes to fruition. In addition to waste and huge water consumption, livestock is responsible for some 18% of the world's carbon emission. If you remove the animal suffering and carbon emissions from the equation, and you don't have a problem with using stem cell technology, there's only health and economic reasons to stay vegetarian.

In 2009 PETA announced a competition to give $1 million to the scientist who could create the first marketable lab grown meat by 2012.
According to Fox News, London's Royal Society last month released a global food supply report advocating for synthetic meat as possible solution for feeding the world's 9 billion 2050, without destroying the planet. The only barriers? Overcoming the social stigma and the RS scientists say it could take another decade before it rolls out to the masses.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/01/artificial-meat-6-months_n_945767.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The competition for animal free meat sponsored by PETA one of the very strong and forward looking Animal protection and welfare group in USA.

Sat Sri Akal.