Atheism Do You Believe In Waheguru

[spnadmin]

i thought it was the Cow...(Kamdhyen GAOO not Kamdhayen TREE ?? or is there such a TREE also...???

aside a coconut tree could possibly be such..its leaves make for roofing..its trunk madke for bridges..its fruit gives milk, oil,..its roots give us medicine..its fruits cover gives us ropes..so in a literal way its Elleysian Tree all right..but no hurry I will wait till you find the Cow...then we will get all our wishes !!! YEAH and 3 hurrahs..

Gyani ji

I was looking for the cow. Guru Nanak himself, mentions this Elysian tree, but reports he had not seen it, either. I changed my mind, am looking for the tree. That may have caused the confusion. I will keep you posted.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Sat sri akal respected Tejwant singh ji

nobody is posting here with any personal agenda ji,everyone is entitled to post his/her opinion through his experience which lays a foundation for learning for many.Everyone here is smart enough to follow things according to his/her wisdom

Arshdeep Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

It is unfair on your part to pick and choose from my whole thought to say something that has nothing to do with what I am talking about. Please do not distort what I said. I never challenged anyone's opinion. I objected to people using one or two liners from the whole Shabad when the message lies in the whole Shabad and everyone has an opinion to express their understanding about it. Many may agree and many may not.

In fact I agreed and commended you for your last comment by putting it in bold in your post.

Following is from where you picked and chose my comment. Please read the whole comment.

My only request is that let's not try to push our personal agenda in any thread but discuss about what it requires with open mindedness based on the whole Shabad of Gurbani rather than one or two liners which can be misleading and hence disrespectful to our Gurus who want us to learn the message given in the Shabad. We are the lucky ones to have this kind of privilege to make ours and others' lives better by sharing it.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Our GURUS were PRAGMATIC...LOGICAL persons..ordinary human beings..householders..married..with kids and wives etc..keeping cows..milking them..ploughing fields..cutting grass..almost like the everyday villagers you see in Punjab today.....
As such there is NOT an IOTA of DOGMATIC "follow or else"..types in SGGS...There is no such thing as .."Amritvela is 2.30 am..and you better follow it or else ???..OR you better bathe in COLD RIVER WATER..or else ?? or you better eat DAAL/ROTI or else ??

BUT there is definitley DISCIPLINE...REHAT...MARYADA being "pushed..gently..very very gently..Ask any farmer..and you will know there is a TIMETABLE..a RIGHT TIME and a WRONG TIME...for everything...why does everyone..cut his wheat aroudn the same time..why does everyone..plough the fields around the same time..why does everyone water the fiedls at the same time..??..and the ONE WHO DELAYS...knows the CONSEQUENCES...every FARMER has his own DISCIPLINE..maryada..BUT theres Lots of LEEWAY too...theres no such thing as everyone get up at 2.30 and switch on your tubewell...or go plough the field...if you dont feel like it..you can go at 2.30 PM...but be prepared for the burning HOT SUN !!
So similarly in Gurmatt REHNNI..LIFE..there is discipline..rehat..maryada..but we all are allowed leeway..freedom..there are NO STRAIT JACKETS...its those few "whose minds are in strait jackets" that try and put everybody else into strait jackets ..so they can feel not left out..
SGGS says so very plainly that AMRITVELA is ANY TIME and ALL THE TIME...when we are in contact with HIM...but strait jacketed minds would like to enforce their own/inherited strait jacketed rules blindly to all...irrespective of any BACKING for such from SGGS.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

MAAN YOG GIYANI JARNAIL SINGH Ji,
You are right when you say as
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says so very plainly that AMRITVELA is ANY TIME and ALL THE TIME...when we are in contact with HIM...but strait jacketed minds would like to enforce their own/inherited strait jacketed rules blindly to all...irrespective of any BACKING for such from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

But still in SGGS ji one would find the mentioning of certain times and situations
which may be more condusive and favourable for being in Unison with Naamu.

As such the messages of Gurbanee are very articulate to cover the whole spectrum of
human thought process.Although the objective is ONE....to make Munmukh as
Gurmukh by way of connecting with Naamu.

with regards

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[aristotle]

During deep sleep, body is in interaction with unconscious mind, so if during that time if someone wakes up, learning may goes directly to unconscious mind,

Poor logic...

 

[ravneet_sb]

Poor logic...

please give right thoughts on this,

 

[japjisahib04]

MAAN YOG GIYANI JARNAIL SINGH Ji,
You are right when you say as
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says so very plainly that AMRITVELA is ANY TIME and ALL THE TIME...when we are in contact with HIM...but strait jacketed minds would like to enforce their own/inherited strait jacketed rules blindly to all...irrespective of any BACKING for such from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

But still in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji one would find the mentioning of certain times and situations
which may be more condusive and favourable for being in Unison with Naamu.

As such the messages of Gurbanee are very articulate to cover the whole spectrum of
human thought process.Although the objective is ONE....to make Munmukh as
Gurmukh by way of connecting with Naamu.

Prakash.S.Bagga

Though topic of Amrit velaa over here is out of context. Let me share my two cents. Let us see in which context guru sahib have used the word amrit vela, ' ਫੇਰਿ ਕਿ ਅਗੈ ਰਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਦਿਸੈ ਦਰਬਾਰੁ ॥ ਮੁਹੌ ਕਿ ਬੋਲਣੁ ਬੋਲੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਸੁਣਿ ਧਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਉ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ First question which comes to my mind is, 'when Guru Sahib had already raised a question in first stanza, 'keev sachiara hoeyee keev kudeh tuteh pal' then how come need for another question, 'phair kai aagai rakhiyee jit deesai darbar, moh kee bolan boliyee jit sun dharai piyar' arises. Was not it enough to be truthful by surrendering to His will to assimilate with our creator that guru sahib raised another question. The question further looked weird when gurbani says, 'aapai patti kalam aap upar laikh bhi tu kis nu kahyee nanka dujha kahai ku - when he himself is the creator of everything then what shall we offer him to qualify to see His darbar. It is like me owning a choclate factory (and I make all the choclates in the world) and you giving me a choclate for a present to make me happy. Makes no sense.

The traditional understandings of this pauree was what should I offer to see His darbar? Very few people know the meaning of darbar and why word darbar is written.. Since God is all over, does it mean He has left His darbar somewhere in seventh sky? As a result of this you go to any gurdwara and see various offerings like, fruit, sweets, rumalas and money etc. I don't mind when all these things are offered but only to serve the devotees/guests and not taken as offerings to akal purakh. We have built a gap between offerings to sangat and akal purakh and thus forget the real message. Until I realized what is mine? It is my ego. And Guru sahib in continuance to the first question is asking me now to 'phair' shift your paradigm(from manh ki matt to Guru ki matt) and surrender your ego to inculcate the divine philosophy of gurbani. To live as per the essence of gurbani is called surrender and this is the foremost condition. When I am full of love, humble and soft spoken, it is the expression and language of God. As per my understanding, 'by living like this whole of my life will be amrit velya.

Vela Vakat is not a particular instant in the ever continuous time that Humans have invented based on the observations on movements Sun, Stars, and planets etc. For humans Vela is time slot of our existence on earth (bodily existence only) All Vela or time is Fruitful that one spends in remembrance of the Beloved who is our Creator, Source, Power and everything. Sabd Guru is the medium for Hearing ( Sunnia) pondering (Vichar) understanding (Sojhee), Believing (Maneya), and Be in Love ( Man Keeta Bhao).." Therefore we Ponder on Sabd, which is Naam for Remembrance, and Hukam (His Will) for us to live with.

The life Span ( Precious Opportunity) is the Vela to get absorbed in our source through constant remembrance. The so called Ambrosial hours in early morning are not the only Ambrosial time (Vela), although for many that may be the time to start a day, but there are many other who had no choice but to earn their living working in shifts. I found out that Amrit is Gurbani Sabd to guide our lives - our stay on earth. And all that time when we are in Remembrance of our Creator is Amrit Vela for us.

Above is my understanding and I stand corrected.

best regards
sahni

 

[seeker3k]

Satnaam Seeker Ji,

First of all only in the world of duality is there "I" and "other". When people say Waheguru they don't (or shouldn't) be meaning the physical body that once was....there is only one and always will be one.

The bani is the guru, and the guru is the bani, the shabad roop of god, that flows through all molicules of creation, creating, sustaining and destroying... the WORD that jesus talked of...this is the Guru...NOT THE PHYSICAL MAN.

When i say WaheGuru i am focussing on the creator lord..the source of everything...that had fully manifest in previous guru's...that exists within us all.

Whilst my diaan \ attention \ focus is on the external world, i have the physical manifestation of this SHABAD/WORD (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) to refer to and guide me.

Meditating on this physical manifestation of the Shabad guides my diaan \ attention \ focus within me to the internal existance.

Do not underestimate the physical manifestion of the formless Shabad which is a mistake that i often
made

Powered by love and devotion...meditating on the physical manifestation of gurbani and also living it in daily life...the internal Shabad Guru becomes known.

This internal Shabad Guru / WORD will take our consciousness back to it's source and a permanant connection will be formed.

Waheguru = the formless, the ever existing, unchanging and guiding force.

Just my thoughts Ji on my current understanding and experience. god Bless on your journey ji

The question I asked was what was the god formless called before Bhatts sang this wah guru? I could not find waheguru any where in SGGS. Please tell me where I can find that word?
What Nanak meant by simran? Simran of what? I have heard many thing Just wanted to know what was God called before some unknow person told us to do waheguru simran. There are many groups in this Sikh world who are doing simran of waheguru. They do that none stop for few hours.

 

[aristotle]

please give right thoughts on this,

Deep sleep or REM sleep is undoubtedly characterised by an increase in intensity of brain waves, but when we awake, even after REM sleep, the brain reverts to normal brain wave pattern. There is no such connection to the unconscious/subconscious mind whatsover then. Dragging this example to justify parapsychology is not an intelligent thing to do.

 

[ravneet_sb]

Deep sleep or REM sleep is undoubtedly characterised by an increase in intensity of brain waves, but when we awake, even after REM sleep, the brain reverts to normal brain wave pattern. There is no such connection to the unconscious/subconscious mind whatsover then. Dragging this example to justify parapsychology is not an intelligent thing to do.

Sat Sri Akaal,

Aristotle Ji, please treat my written content from ignorance of mind, and experience from real world,
mind is seeker, it just want to understand theory behind practical to improve upon.

Theoretically yours information is true, and justified.


Mind function is to plan, justify, mystify etc.

But spine level functions are conscious function or unconscious.

Why functions performed at spine level, conscious mind denies.

for eg

one may be conscious about idol worship,
but 99.9% of sikh household pray before picture of GURU NANAK,

Though everyone conscious sikh will deny idol worship,

Why DENIAL if one is consciously doing,

and what one self responds about action performed.

Conscious reply is killed, after one reflects at own action and there is no conscious response.

Karma is reflection of true mind, not the speech or vision.


This is experienced "TRUE NATURE"
or
Hinduism, Muslim, Sikhism, Christianity


Is it reflects conscious state or unconscious state.

If one one's to merge theory and action, what are steps.

Theoretically its OK
and
what's this daily routine experience at every sikh home.

Though it may be justification of my mind, but its experienced practical reality, though not a good scientific expression.

As if somebody may have done crime, and his mind will make justification of action, only by getting a stroke by policeman, one gets socially aware of one's action.

its so good, one can leave relation, nation and body, but not mind.

This is nothing to prove right or wrong,
but understanding of theory and practical.

Delivery of excellence is much bigger pursuit than to be self excellent.

Let's get the right actions excel with understanding.

Further experience on theory can be shared to improve on actions.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[seeker3k]

There is also Lucid dreams That can one insite

 

[aristotle]

But spine level functions are conscious function or unconscious.

No, spine level or spinal actions are not unconscious, they are reflex actions. When you touch a hot cup and immediately withdraw your hand, that is a spine level function and the information about the same is perfectly coordinated with the brain. It has nothing to do with the so called Unconscious mind.
I don't know from where you get these false interpretations of scientific theories.

 

[aristotle]

its so good, one can leave relation, nation and body, but not mind.

Well you can't leave your Liver either, or your brain, heart, lungs, kidneys etc, it is quite a list.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Sahni Ji has given the most correct definition of "AMRIT VELA" as per SGGS !! and PS Baggah ji came to the same conclusion elsewhere in the discussion on AANT KAAL...

The Clock time is an artificial invention of Man...based on the 24 hr clock..the rest of the Creators Nature has no use for this human invention...

AANT KAAL..and AMRIT VELA in SGGS BOTH refer to the Human LIFE TIME..from Birth to Death...our LIFE SPAN is the time to MEET HIM..its the TIME to Practice LIVING GURBANI.....becoming GURBANI...BEING GURBANI....its a LIFE TIME JOB....Keep "slogging" at it 24/7 365 days..until you breathe the last breath...ONLY then is there a slim hope of MERGING IN HIM... Any teacher worth his salt will always tell his studnets to keep studying..practising..the whole year...and NOT sleep the whole year.and just concentrate during the 1hr for the exam paper !!..THIS is what our GURU..the "Motehr of all teachers" is emphasizing in the 1429 pages of SGGS...BEGIN WORKING from DAY ONE..and continue studiously...year ina dn year out..till the Day of recokining the CALL from HIM...Ghalleh ayeh Nanaka...Saddeh utthe jayeh Nannakas..comes...its been AMRIT VELA,..for 89 YEARS..and AANT KAAL for 89 years..and some fool wants you to beleive that the Very LAST BREATH...you can PASS the EXAM with Flying colors... when you never studied for a single day.....then you too are a fool for beleiving that.

 

[akiva]

There's no knowing when "enlightenment"/"awakening" will come. Some people study their entire life without achieving it. Others achieve it in a second, when they don't expect it.

(Zen literature, for one, is full of examples. There are Jewish and Sufi teaching that say the same thing)

So I don't think we can dismiss the idea -- just realize that it's very unlikely.

And, ultimately, from Guru Ji's Nadar. (Or Kirpa?)

Akiva

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

There's no knowing when "enlightenment"/"awakening" will come. Some people study their entire life without achieving it. Others achieve it in a second, when they don't expect it.

(Zen literature, for one, is full of examples. There are Jewish and Sufi teaching that say the same thing)

So I don't think we can dismiss the idea -- just realize that it's very unlikely.

And, ultimately, from Guru Ji's Nadar. (Or Kirpa?)

Akiva

Jios..

We read too much into "Guru jis kirpa nadar etc.."

As a teacher i had each and every studnets welfare at heart..i would anguish looking at students who didnt study..they wanted my nadar/kirpa..
Could I simply "help those who didnt study at the expense of those that followed the timetable and studied their hearts out..??
If it was simply Nadar kirpa..why would Guru ji labour to write a huge 1429 page SGGS...thats a hefty MANUAL of LIFE..a simple "just wait for my nadar/kirpa"..would do ??? Guru Ji travelled thousands of miles...all over the known world through dangerous paths and seas full of storms..jungles full of maneaters....was it just a case of nadar/kirpa ?? Are the Hundred thousand babas and snats "dishing out nadar/kirpa too ?? Just ask any of thsoe who follow these..they sure are going to say..YES JI..once the Baba Ji bestows his NADAR on ME..it will all be Hinky dory..Bass KIRPA ho javeh...maujan hee maujan...There is no such "HOPE" from SGGS..which cant ssee..cant wave his hand over your head..and cnat make eye contact //so no nadar no kirpa ???..is this the reason for the overflowing huge deras..capacity full beas satsangs....and empty Gurdwaras ?? Imho..those who go to Gurdwaras genuinely know that LOTS of HARD WORK is necessary...and thats why so few go...its better to go to Beas and get the Guru whisper sweet nothings in your ear !!! That "Gurus NADAR" is visible..eye contact ???

Even the basic logic is...."GOD helps those who HELP themselves.."...and in GURMATT its way way MUCH more than that..A Good sikh helps Himself..helps OTHERS..before Guru helps him...is basic premise of Gurbani in 1429 pages...GHAAL KHAYEH..KICCH HATHON DEH....work hard..earn share..then ASK the Guru !!! People jump shortcut to ASK THE GURU...one second his NADAR ho jayeh..bass maujan mujan...

 

[japjisahib04]

Even the basic logic is...."GOD helps those who HELP themselves.."...and in GURMATT its way way MUCH more than that..A Good sikh helps Himself..helps OTHERS..before Guru helps him...is basic premise of Gurbani in 1429 pages...GHAAL KHAYEH..KICCH HATHON DEH....work hard..earn share..then ASK the Guru !!! People jump shortcut to ASK THE GURU...one second his NADAR ho jayeh..bass maujan mujan...

Giani Jee

You are right. But these derawala and our copy cat scholars have reduced gurbani to mantras. Just take this pankti, ' ਨਦਰਿ ਉਪਠੀ ਜੇ ਕਰੇ ਸੁਲਤਾਨਾ ਘਾਹੁ ਕਰਾਇਦਾ ॥
नदरि उपठी जे करे सुलताना घाहु कराइदा ॥
Naḏar upṯẖī je kare sulṯānā gẖāhu karā▫iḏā.
If he should cast an angry glance, He can transform kings into blades of grass.

The interpretation given above indicates that if someone cast an angry glance on God then the God will even transform Kings into blades of grass.

There is another interpretation:
If God cast angry glance Then He can transform Kings into blades of grass.

Both ways interpretation proves, Guru Nanak has declared God as REVENGEFUL. But in Commencing Verse (Mool Mantra) Guru Nanak says God is Nirvair (without any revenge) and Guru Arjan Jee says, 'mith bolda jee oh kadai n bolai kauda'. I cannot imagine that Guru Nanak will issue contradictory statements in his Bani.

Therefore, let us see where have we gone wrong. The pankti is, 'ਨਦਰਿ ਉਪਠੀ ਜੇ ਕਰੇ ਸੁਲਤਾਨਾ ਘਾਹੁ ਕਰਾਇਦਾ ॥
Since God is weparwah, thus question of withdrawing grace and taking revenge does not arise. By closely looking at the pankti, I am observing that pankti is not addressing to God but to my mind as a first person that whosoever (upathi) ignores the divine wisdom then sultana (is my demon mind without godly virtues) drags me into superfluous work (gha kraida -useless karma). And, 'ਦਰਿ ਮੰਗਨਿ ਭਿਖ ਨ ਪਾਇਦਾ ॥੧੬॥ When mind is involved throughout in superfluous action, he has no time to request satguru and seek His mat thus mind does not get his blessing. God does not make discrimination in disbtribution his wisdom.

best regards
sahni

 

[seeker3k]

japjisahib04

What is this mean?

Lakh khushian patshain je oh nadar kare?
Who nadar kare? Waheguru? Why would Waheguru should do that? Only because we do his simran?

 

[japjisahib04]

Seeker3k Jeo

God is weperwah. Whether you sit in a corner and chant His name million or billions of time, He is not going to reward you or save you from any satan if there is any. Gurbani addresses God as, 'tu mera mata tu hai mera pita - and parents don't descriminate with their children. Gurbani does not approve SOS type grace i.e. recommends kirt karni. In this pankti, 'lakh khushian patshain je satguru nadar karai - satguru is not anyone in human form or God but sat+guru=divine+wisdom and divine wisdom is raining without any descrimination and whosoever seeks gets it. Therefore 'jai satguru nadar - if divine wisdom wells up and we live it then one enters into eternal bliss.

If I hope I have clarified.

best regards
sahni

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

BEAUTIFULLY done Sahni ji. Thanks.
Regards
Jarnail singh