Ek Omkar?

[paapi_banda]

Gurfateh ji..

Jst wanna say that Nothing to do with OM here. Its ONKAR.

Onkar is the first voice of universe. All the universe is created from the shabad ONKAR.

Onkaar Brahma utpat,
Onkaar kiya jin chit
Onkaar sail jug bhaye,
Onkaar baid nirmaye (SGGS)[929-18]

Brahma was created through the sound of Onkar, Brahma cherished the one Lord in his mind. It is through the sound of Onkar that mountains and ages emanated. It is this sound which created the Vedas.

Onkar Aaad kathni Anaad -- [Jaap Sahib-167]

Jain dharam de avatar Mahavir ji kende ne Onkar hi brahmand ki pehle awazz hai.. Upnishada de ade to jada Rishi Muni wi kende ne Onkar is the first voice of Universe by which this whole universe is created..

Onkar aad mein jana
Likhiar mete tahe namana -- Bhagat Kabir Ji

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

spot on papee ji.
in the SGGS..Guru Ji makes it absolutely clear how te words which may me confused are to be correctly pronounced.
1. to stop people from saying Mehla EK, Do, Tin chaar etc..it is written in WORDS..Pehla, DOOJa TEEJa Chautha Panjavan etc ( in strategic places)
2. To stop people thinking that a certain shabd is "double" entry and thus need not be read again..Guru Ji has written: EH Slok AAD aant parrhhnna.

Here in th e examples from Oankar bani of Guur nanak Ji Sahib..Guur Ji makes absolutley clear how the Open OOrra in Manglacharan at opening of SGGS is to be pronounced..and to make sure that we understand Oankaar is ONE..Guru Ji put EK in NUMERAL form in front of Oankaar.

In spite of such clear and unrefutable evidence as to what Guru ji means..some FOOLS still go on insisting that this is "OM"...derived from OM..vedas etc ( sorry to use the word but there is no other word to describe them) GURMATT of Guru Sahibs is NOT a vedic derivative...it is a compete NEW religious Philosophy..new ideas, new language, new script, new concepts..New Scriptures, New Spirit of Sacrifice New AMRIT....NEW EVERYTHING..

Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[deep_deep]

earlier i just know that EK OANKAAR means one god ....... thanx for such good explanation.....

 

[Astroboy]

earlier i just know that EK OANKAAR means one god ....... thanx for such good explanation.....

This is a pleasant comment. Good going deep_deep.

 

[International Akaali]

eykMkwru iekWg iliK AUVw EaMkwru ilKwieaw [
siqnwmu krqw purKu inrBAu hoie inrvYru sdwieaw [

: Bhai gurdas Vaaran... Vaar 39

Here bhai sahib is pronouncing Ik Ooaankar

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and International Akaali Jee!

Quote "Here bhai sahib is pronouncing Ik Ooaankar."
Please explain. Which word from Bhai Gurdas Jee written in Gurmukhi as referred from your lines have you pronounced Ik Ooaankar?
Please do not ignore my request.

Balbir Singh

 

[International Akaali]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and International Akaali Jee!

Quote "Here bhai sahib is pronouncing Ik Ooaankar."
Please explain. Which word from Bhai Gurdas Jee written in Gurmukhi as referred from your lines have you pronounced Ik Ooaankar?
Please do not ignore my request.

Balbir Singh

Please refer to vaar 39 of bhai gurdaas ji and you will get your answer.

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and International Akaali Jee!

Quote "Please refer to vaar 39 of bhai gurdaas ji and you will get your answer."
It was a misleading proposal. Bhai Gurdas Jee has not written 'Ik Ooaankar' in Vaar 39 nor he has suggested to pronounce any word so.


Balbir Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Balbir ji

Varr 39, Pauree 1, Line 1

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ (Bhai Gurdas)
ikonkaar satigur prasaadi ॥ (English phonetic transliteration)

This is how he wrote it. We don't know how he pronounced it because there are no tape recordings or audio files. Though I think International Akaali ji was making a different point some comments earlier.

 

[spnadmin]

Here however is another thought in the same Vaar that might make sense of things.

ਅੰਬਾਂ ਸਧਰ ਨ ਉਤਰੈ ਆਣਿ ਅੰਬਾਕੜੀਆਂ ਜੇ ਖਾਏ ।
anbaan sadhar n utarai aani anbaakarheeaan jay khaaay|

By eating mango blossoms the desire for eating mangoes is not fulfilled.

Bhai Gurdas, Vaar 39, Pauree 20, line 3

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!

International Akaali Jee referred two lines from Bhai Gurdas Jee written in the Gurmukhi script. These are
eykMkwru iekWg iliK AUVw EaMkwru ilKwieaw [
siqnwmu krqw purKu inrBAu hoie inrvYru sdwieaw [ Vaar 39

Then he wrote "Here bhai sahib is pronouncing Ik Ooaankar."

He may be a teacher and guide for many youngsters on the forum at discoversikhi dot net. Readers do not accept from him reading something different that written.

The true Gurus have never given any instruction to read <> Ikonkaar. Nobody knows when and why Sikhs have started doing so. I feel the true Gurus have written so much. They could guide giving an instruction to write <> but reading it Ikonkaar.

I want to ask. Is there a problem in reading <> as they have written it? Sikh missionaries are otherwise very strict in pronouncing Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee correctly though.


Balbir Singh

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

<> As written By Gurdev in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the ocean of treasures. Writing it in one way or other to pronounce may limit its infinite Wisdom.

Many dumb dummy persons try to read scriptures and writings from authors to present their mixture. Their show but leads no one to the true Naam satisfying the spiritual thirst.

The beginning part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is not explaining God, in my experience. Please ponder. Is it possible to express God through written words of a language whose true Nature is inexpressible Truth?


Balbir Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Balbir ji

My hunch is that International Akaali ji was not referring to the two particular lines you have quoted. He may have been referring to the vaar as a whole -- with the invocation at the beginning giving the Gurmukhi spelling.

I have my own opinions about arguments about pronunciation based on the English phonetic transliteration. It is kind of futile -- because these transliterations are not based on Gurmukhi phonetic rules but English phonetic rules that are being used to create the transliteration. But for now I don't plan to get into that issue.

 

[spnadmin]

Also,

The true Gurus have never given any instruction to read <> Ikonkaar. Nobody knows when and why Sikhs have started doing so. They probably started when the shabads were first written as manuscripts. And they probably recited the shabads more than they read them initially. Manuscripts were not numerous. The Adi Granth was not compiled until the 4th Guru. I feel the true Gurus have written so much. They could guide giving an instruction to write <>but reading it Ikonkaar.

I am not sure why this is a concern for you. Once the shabads were grouped together in the Adi Granth, reading all the shabads would be a natural thing to do. If your shabads are all together in one book, then reading it would be a normal human reaction. If you mean reading <> as Ikonkaar, instead of some other pronunciation -- why would they give instructions? This may sound somewhat naive -- but don't you think they all knew how to pronounce it? So there would not be any reason to go back over old ground.

Sikh missionaries are otherwise very strict in pronouncing Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee correctly though. Not only Sikh missionaries. Mispronunciation can make one word sound like another word-- leading to incorrect understanding. The Dandami were created to teach the Shabad -- including correct pronunication.

Balbir Singh[/quote]

 

[drkhalsa]

Dear Balbir Singh ji

Satsriakal!

The beginning part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is not explaining God, in my experience. Please ponder. Is it possible to express God through written words of a language whose true Nature is inexpressible Truth?

first part which is also popularly known as Mool Mantar - are you refering this

May be it says about the attributes of God if not god itself .
In my understanding we can talk about god using the attributes

please share what is your experience regarding this

Jatinder SIngh

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!

Thanks for your sensible posts.

Quote "They probably started when the shabads were first written as manuscripts. And they probably recited the shabads more than they read them initially. Manuscripts were not numerous. The Adi Granth was not compiled until the 4th Guru."
Is this the reason to recite reverend Guru's written word differently? Perhaps it is the high time to realize wrong traditions following with closed eyes.
Did Gurdev write whole Granth to read and understand as it is but one word to read, recite and understand it in according to one's individual choice?

Quote " If you mean reading <> as Ikonkaar, instead of some other pronunciation -- why would they give instructions?"
This is exactly what I am saying. They have not given any instructions. Still, preachers are laying so much stress to read their writings exactly but at one instance.
Why should someone add his words to pronounce <>?

Quote "but don't you think they all knew how to pronounce it?"
Reverend Gurdev knew why they wrote <>. They also knew how to pronounce it.
Preachers and their Sikhs have changed it. This clearly shows that they have lost its wisdom.

Quote "So there would not be any reason to go back over old ground."
Those who wanted something new have changed Sikhi completely. Please watch it. All what a Sikh is doing today has nothing to do with the true Guru's suggestion.

Quote "Mispronunciation can make one word sound like another word-- leading to incorrect understanding."
One receives God's wisdom through True Naam Simran, not by reciting the written instructions from Gurdev. Reading and understanding the correct instructions also do not help alone.

Quote "The Dandami were created to teach the Shabad -- including correct pronunication."
The true Guru's exclusive suggestion is receiving true Naam and living in God's Will. They never instructed to teach or learn their writings and its correct pronunciation. Please provide one Vaak from Gurdev for reference if someone has found so. I will be grateful.

**************

Quote from dear Jatinder Jee "May be it says about the attributes of God if not god itself .
In my understanding we can talk about god using the attributes."

Occasionally the reverend Gurus sing that one cannot say a word about HIM and HIS Attributes.
khxu n jweI qyrI iqlu vifAweI ]
"kahan na jaaee teree tilu vadiaaee." SGGS 9-12

Gurdev did not mention one word that the beginning of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is about the Supreme Lord.
My curiosity is to know how and why preachers and translators have come to this conclusion.


Balbir Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Balbir ji

Glad we agree on some things. Don't know how much value to attribute to anything posted by me. Just impressions. And have to admit that I more than a little confused right now.

Here are 2 vaaks from Vaar 39.

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ikonkaar satigur prasaadi ॥
One Oankar, the primal energy, realized through the grace of divine preceptor
Line 1

ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ ਇਕਾਂਗ ਲਿਖਿ ਊੜਾ ਓਅੰਕਾਰੁ ਲਿਖਾਇਆ ।
aykankaaru ikaang|ikhi oorhaa aoankaaru|ikhaaiaa|
That homogenous supreme reality (God) ) first was written as numeral one mulmantr – the credal formula) and then He was inscribed as Ura syllable of Gurmukhi, further pronounced as Oankar.
Line 2

Happy New Year Balbir ji.

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!

Strange, Guru Arjan Dev Jee ignored the wishes of writing Oankaar after Ura. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee also overlooked the writings of Bhai Gurdas Jee and did not write Oankaar after the numeral one and Ura.

Interesting, the tradition of Bhai Gurdas Jee is animated today in mind and rituals of Sikhs through dedicated preachers.
Who is taking care of the true Guru's values?

ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ ਇਕਾਂਗ ਲਿਖਿ ਊੜਾ ਓਅੰਕਾਰੁ ਲਿਖਾਇਆ ।
aykankaaru ikaang|ikhi oorhaa aoankaaru|ikhaaiaa|

Quote "That homogenous supreme reality (God) ) first was written as numeral one mulmantr – the credal formula) and then He was inscribed as Ura syllable of Gurmukhi, further pronounced as Oankar."
May I ask why Preachers are not reciting 'Ik Ura Oankaar' as written by Bhai Gurdas Jee?

According to your words mulmantra begins with numeral one and then the Ura syllable further written and pronounced Oankaar because Bhai Gurdas Jee has written it.
Bhai Gurdas Jee writes in his Vaar 6-19-2 that mulmantra is 'sati naamu kartaa purakhu' Vaar 6-19-2.
Guru Naanak dev Jee, the revered Guru of Sikhs, says that 'mulmantra is Hari Naam Rasaayan' SGGS Ang 1040-19.
Please explain. Whom should Sikhs listen truly?

Quote "Happy New Year Balbir ji."
Happy New Christian Year to Aad0002 Jee too.


Balbir Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Respected Balbir ji

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!

Strange, Guru Arjan Dev Jee ignored the wishes of writing Oankaar after Ura. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee also overlooked the writings of Bhai Gurdas Jee and did not write Oankaar after the numeral one and Ura.

What is good enough for Guru Arjan Dev and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Rai is good enough for me. Bhai Gurdas remains in my opinion (only my opinion) the pre-eminent reference for better understanding of Bani per Gurmat. I always check the vaars of Bhai Gurdas when I need more. :star:

Your independent spirit remains intact. My guess -- God's hukam.

Interesting, the tradition of Bhai Gurdas Jee is animated today in mind and rituals of Sikhs through dedicated preachers.
Who is taking care of the true Guru's values?

A loaded question I think. Just about every animated forum member here on SPN believes that he/she is taking care of the Guru's values. You are not alone.

ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ ਇਕਾਂਗ ਲਿਖਿ ਊੜਾ ਓਅੰਕਾਰੁ ਲਿਖਾਇਆ ।
aykankaaru ikaang|ikhi oorhaa aoankaaru|ikhaaiaa|

Quote "That homogenous supreme reality (God) ) first was written as numeral one mulmantr – the credal formula) and then He was inscribed as Ura syllable of Gurmukhi, further pronounced as Oankar."
May I ask why Preachers are not reciting 'Ik Ura Oankaar' as written by Bhai Gurdas Jee?

The entire vaar - Vaar 39 - explains this. Which is what International Akaali was trying to explain.

According to your words - Not My Words. I am not that smart. Words of Bhai Gurdas -- mulmantra begins with numeral one and then the Ura syllable further written and pronounced Oankaar because Bhai Gurdas Jee has written it.
Bhai Gurdas Jee writes in his Vaar 6-19-2 that mulmantra is 'sati naamu kartaa purakhu' Vaar 6-19-2.
Guru Naanak dev Jee, the revered Guru of Sikhs, says that 'mulmantra is Hari Naam Rasaayan' SGGS Ang 1040-19.
Please explain. Whom should Sikhs listen truly?

As a Sikh of the Shabad Guru, I listen to the Shabad of the Guru. I don't know who others listen to. Can't speak for the others.

Quote "Happy New Year Balbir ji."
Happy New Christian Year to Aad0002 Jee too.

Why do you dismiss Christians? :hmm: What else can I say?

Balbir Singh

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!

Quote "Bhai Gurdas remains in my opinion (only my opinion) the pre-eminent reference for better understanding of Bani per Gurmat. I always check the vaars of Bhai Gurdas when I need more."
I am sorry for all who prefer to receive advice from Bhai Gurdas Jee.
This is another example why I find his writings totally different from the true Gurus.
Bhai Gurdas Jee is explaining who is a Sikh in this Vaak from his Vaar 6-8-5.
ਘਰ ਬਾਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਸਿਖੁ ਹੋਇ ਸਿਖਾ ਸੂਤ੍ਰ ਮਲ ਮੂਤ੍ਰ ਵਿਡਾਣੈ ।
ghar baaree gur sikhu hoi sikhaa sootr mal mootr vidaanai|

Quote "A loaded question I think. Just about every animated forum member here on SPN believes that he/she is taking care of the Guru's values. You are not alone."
O Really! Some seem taking more care of other writers than the true Gurus, in my observation.

Quote "The entire vaar - Vaar 39 - explains this. Which is what International Akaali was trying to explain."

ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ ਇਕਾਂਗ ਲਿਖਿ ਊੜਾ ਓਅੰਕਾਰੁ ਲਿਖਾਇਆ ।
ਸਤਿਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਹੋਇ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਸਦਾਇਆ ।
I hope you know Gurmukhee. Please explain. One should pronounce which word 'ik aoonkaar' from Bhai Gurdas Jee's above lines as referred by International Akaali Jee. I will be grateful.

May I ask? Bhai Gurdas Jee did not live during Guru Gobind Singh Jee's time. Why in his Vaar 39-4-1 he has mentioned Guru Gobind Singh Jee, that also as Guru Gobind but not Guru Gobind Singh?
ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਪੀਰ ਗੁਰੁ ਚੇਲਾ ਚੇਲਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਹੋਆ ।
gur govindu khudaai peer guru chaylaa chaylaa guru hoaa|

Quote "As a Sikh of the Shabad Guru, I listen to the Shabad of the Guru. I don't know who others listen to. Can't speak for the others."
Please explain. When did you listen, Gurdev suggesting Sikhs to read <> Ik Oankaar?

Quote "Why do you dismiss Christians? What else can I say?"
I greet all happiness on the eve of the Christian year with love. I will try to improve my English next to greet all on other occasions, promise.


Balbir Singh