Existence Of Abrahamic God

[prakash.s.bagga]

Bhagat Singh ji,
In the present era of Computor Age No one can have knowledge more than anyone else..So my knowledge is the same as yours.We may differ in our levels of acceptance of the knowledge.
I have accepted what I get from within SGGS.If any one accepts what is not in SGGS then it is his choice only.
You feed the words IK ONKAAR in computor you will not get this in SGGS .But if you feed IK EKANKAAR you must get this in SGGS .

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[BhagatSingh]

ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
गउड़ी महला ५ ॥
Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 5.
Gauree, Fifth Mehl:
ਸੰਤ ਕੀ ਧੂਰਿ ਮਿਟੇ ਅਘ ਕੋਟ ॥
संत की धूरि मिटे अघ कोट ॥
Sanṯ kī ḏẖūr mite agẖ kot.
Millions of sins are wiped away by the dust of the feet of the Saints.
ਸੰਤ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਤੇ ਛੋਟ ॥੧॥
संत प्रसादि जनम मरण ते छोट ॥१॥
Sanṯ parsāḏ janam maraṇ ṯe cẖẖot. ||1||
By the Grace of the Saints, one is released from birth and death. ||1||
ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦਰਸੁ ਪੂਰਨ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ॥
संत का दरसु पूरन इसनानु ॥
Sanṯ kā ḏaras pūran isnān.
The Blessed Vision of the Saints is the perfect cleansing bath.
ਸੰਤ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੇ ਜਪੀਐ ਨਾਮੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
संत क्रिपा ते जपीऐ नामु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Sanṯ kirpā ṯe japī▫ai nām. ||1|| rahā▫o.
By the Grace of the Saints, one comes to chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||Pause||
ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਮਿਟਿਆ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ॥
संत कै संगि मिटिआ अहंकारु ॥
Sanṯ kai sang miti▫ā ahaʼnkār.
In the Society of the Saints, egotism is shed,
ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਆਵੈ ਸਭੁ ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ ॥੨॥
द्रिसटि आवै सभु एकंकारु ॥२॥
Ḏarisat āvai sabẖ ekankār. ||2||
and the One Lord is seen everywhere. ||2||
ਸੰਤ ਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਆਏ ਵਸਿ ਪੰਚਾ ॥
संत सुप्रसंन आए वसि पंचा ॥
Sanṯ suparsan ā▫e vas pancẖā.
By the pleasure of the Saints, the five passions are overpowered,
ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਲੈ ਸੰਚਾ ॥੩॥
अम्रितु नामु रिदै लै संचा ॥३॥
Amriṯ nām riḏai lai sancẖā. ||3||
and the heart is irrigated with the Ambrosial Naam. ||3||
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਪੂਰਾ ਕਰਮ ॥
कहु नानक जा का पूरा करम ॥
Kaho Nānak jā kā pūrā karam.
Says Nanak, one whose karma is perfect,
ਤਿਸੁ ਭੇਟੇ ਸਾਧੂ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ॥੪॥੪੬॥੧੧੫॥
तिसु भेटे साधू के चरन ॥४॥४६॥११५॥
Ŧis bẖete sāḏẖū ke cẖaran. ||4||46||115||
touches the feet of the Holy. ||4||46||115||

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Bhagat Singh ji,

Many Many ...............Thanks

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[BhagatSingh]

icecreammunda

Thank you Prakash ji for making me read through many shabads with Ekankar. It was awesome.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Bhagat Singh ji,
The real meaning of this word EKANKAARu is still more awesome.This wod does mean ONE LORD/GOD as we think.
Prakash.s.Bagga

 

[BhagatSingh]

Indeed!

Shinzen Young (an enlightened Zen Buddhist) - (paraphrasing him) If he had a choice between:
one day with knowing what he knows (after which he was perhaps killed)

and

a whole lifetime with no chance of knowing what he knows

He would choose that one day. This is how awesome it is.

Cheers

 

[Harry Haller]

Prakashji

you mentioned earlier that there is no concept of god in gurbani, could you expand on that

thank you

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Harry Hallar Ji,

We refer GOD as CREATOR. We also refer GOD as being FORMLESS.That means we refer CREATOR as FORMLESS.
Whereas in Gurbani the CREATOR is being refered as having FORM.
In view of above considerations where we can find the concept of GOD in Gurbani.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

HARRY HALLAR Ji,

There are several reasons to indicate as to why the word GOD is not an appropriate for Use in Gurbani reference.These are

1......The word GOD itself is not a content of Gurbani vocabulary.Since Bani is complete by itself it does not require the use of any extra word for its interpretation.
2......The grammer of the word GOD does not meet grammatical requirement of Gurbani words.The word GOD is gramamtically SINGULAR..NOUN...MASCULINEGENDER.
The word GOD is used as reference for the CREATOR.
Since the CREATOR in Gurbani is already being refered as GuR which is PLURAL.
3......In Gurbani the CREATOR is a pair of two opposite characters whereas the word GOD being Singular can not be used to represent a pair.

There are 1008 Noun words in our literature that refer to CREATOR.In Gurbani only nearly 300 find the use .All others can also be used but it is important to use any extra word as per pattern of Gurbani grammer otherwise its use would result in incorrect interpretation of Gurbani.
I hope I have expanded the reason you may be looking for.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ishna]

Prakash ji

I thought the plural form was used in Punjabi language to show respect to someone, in this case the Creator?

Also, can you please expand on your comment that the Creator in Gurbani (I'm assuming you are referring to what we might call Waheguru) is a pair of opposite characters?

My understanding of Sikhi so far has been strict monotheism and a quest to eliminate duality and separation from the mind.

Are you saying the two opposite characters are FORM and FORMLESS?

Thanks
Ishna :interestedkudi:

 

[spnadmin]

Ishna ji

A very incisive question. welcomekaur The first time I read I was befuddled and did not know what to say.

Also, can you please expand on your comment that the Creator in Gurbani (I'm assuming you are referring to what we might call Waheguru) is a pair of opposite characters?

Can there be more than one ikonkaar? Did not know how to put my thoughts into words.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

ISHANA Ji,

The answer you are looking for lies in the understanding of the intrisic meanings of the words GuRU -GuRu and GuR.Try to know the grammer of these words and establish the interrelationship of these three words.
Once you can do this you are going to get the answer to all your questions.
I can give you a Hint that the Word GuRu is Single word but this is also written as GuRu.GuRu .These two words together represent a Single word GuRU.
This understanding of the word GuRU as GuRu.GuRu would give you the required answer.

Hint....The word GuRU the Capital U is for Dulakad Matra under the letter R of the
word GuR

The word GuRu the small u is for Aukad Matra under the letter R of the word
GuR
Always refer to Gurmukhi script to verify the above pattern of words.

The concept of Gurbani about Creator is certainly of Monothiest as the CREATOR is being represented by a SINGLE Word GuR which is Plural means this word represents infinite as ONE.

By opposite character I mean one chacter represents POSITIVE and Masculine aspect of the FORM and second character represents NEGATIVE and Feminine aspect of the same FORM.

I hope this may help you to get answer to your questions.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[spnadmin]

Prakash.S. Baggu ji

I do not speak for Ishna ji, however, your answer befuddles me, especially this part.

By opposite character I mean one chacter represents POSITIVE and Masculine aspect of the FORM and second character represents NEGATIVE and Feminine aspect of the same FORM.

I hope this may help you to get answer to your questions.

It does not help. I am aware that in Islam it is believed that Allah has a hidden feminine nature. Where in SGGS does this notion emerge for Akaal? Unless you have a secret, hidden key to understanding, the face value of your comment almost contradicts SGGS.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Let us give a thought to some of the quotes from Gurbani as

1.......Tum Mat Pita Hum Barak Tere

2......HARi Ji Mata,HARi Ji Pita HAR Ji Pratipalak

3.....MeRa Mat Pita HARi Raaiyaa

We can see that the use of words Mata and PITA in Gurbani and these words are the references for some Masculine and Fiminie Character of the CREATOR.
Is it not So.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Harry Haller]

The creator is infinite

infinite-a number that has an infinite, uncountable numerical value

by that, surely we can take what Prakashji has stated as being correct, the creator is mother, father, lover, wife, husband, maybe the dual nature spoken of could be better defined as infinite nature?

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Thank you HARRY HALLER ji

Prakash.s.Bagga

 

[BhagatSingh]

The fingers which wrote this, they dance on the keyboard... to the beat of the mind-made words or to the clicks of the pressed keys? Meditate on this.

One is the trunk of the elephant and the other it's tail. How can the elephant be seen if you stick to one (most likely your own) perspective?

 

[Ishna]

Harry ji, I can understand your comment more than I can understand Prakash ji's comment regarding mother and father.

Prakash ji: thanks for expanding on the GuRu GURU GuR stuff and I'm still learning about Punjabi grammar particularly as it applies in SGGS.

By opposite character I mean one chacter represents POSITIVE and Masculine aspect of the FORM and second character represents NEGATIVE and Feminine aspect of the same FORM.

I can't say I'm comprehending the 'Creator as FORM' posts -- I just don't understand them at this point in time. However, the positive masuline / negative feminine is something I'm very familiar with from my Neopagan days.

Part of what drew me to Sikhi in the first place is the concept of One Universal Creative Force. Period. I don't see the need to analyse and divide it into pieces, especially not male/female as that is such a human-specific mode of interpretation. An androgenous snail probably doesn't think the creative force is made up of the male/female duality.

My interpretation has been that the Creator in Sikhi is yet still above the positive/negative creative process. The Creator created the creative process -- if that involves positive/negative polarity, that's great, but what consequence is it to me?

I don't think Sikhi is designed to be complicated. Like Bhagat ji said recently, it's pointing out the obvious. If we could just let go of the human need to disect and over-analyse we could instead sit back and enjoy the Truth just as it is. This could be just be my lack of understanding, but it's what I feel and understand at this particular point on my path.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

ISHNA Ji,
I appreciate the intrisic sense of your views and your being candid on the subject.
You seem to have the potential of acquiring Holistic knowledge of Gurbani.Having information only does not constitute Knowledge.One is required to peep deep into
the authenticity of informative knowledge and this can be provided by GuRU only.
I wish May HARi ji be your guide.
With best wishes
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Harry Haller]

Ishna Bhenji,

You are an inspiration to us all!

I cannot speak for Prakashji, but since arriving on this forum, it seems clear that every sikh has his/her own way of relating to the creator. I see him in my wife, stepson, mother, father, dogs, and the creator keeps popping up in more and more places, I suppose ultimately I will see the creator in everything. The last time we walked the dogs, my wife commented on how beautiful dog dirt was. I expected some sort of explanation, so i remained quiet, to us, its just dog dirt, but inside that dog dirt, is a whole world full of organisms and micro organisms, all playing their role in life, if you could examine that order in a microscope, it would look beautiful, she said,

So, if one can see god in dog dirt, and if god is in everything, both good and evil, then god is also in the negative and the positive.

You are correct, the creator is a single universal force, it just happens to be everywhere at the same time!

I think we as human beings find it hardest to define our own interpretation of the creator in words, which is where these observations can cause confusion. I personally think as long as your interpretation of the creator has its definitions in the SGGS, you cannot go far wrong, but I also think each of us takes a different way to feel the creator and what it means to us, although, all within the boundaries of sikh thinking.