Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh

[dalbirk]

Dear Randip Singh Ji ,
WJKK WJKF
This is an excellent article by you . A tremendous effort considering the pro - Veg Sikh lobby is trying to show as if being non- Veg is the utmost Anti - Sikh practice one can indulge in , a matter of life & death . Das came accross this book ' SIKH SIDHANT ' by Iqbal Singh Ji ( Baba ) of Gurudwara Baru Sahib , Kalgidhar Trust , H P . This book at first look seems to chart out clearly the principles of Sikhism in simple language & brief words . But actually , it is a out & out attempt to promote Vegetarianism in Sikhs , almost 50 % of this book is devoted to the cause of vegetarianism . It demonises Non - Veg food as if eating it would be the biggest BAJAR KURAHIT according to Sikh principles . The very same examples r used to prove their point , but the extreme attitude & language used to shun Non - Veg food points to much more than meets the eye , some deeper motive at work . These self made scholars have started taking Gurbani & Sikhism principles for a ride of lately with almost everybody jumping on to the bandwagon turning it into a free for all wrestling bout . I feel this effort of urs is an excellent one & should be propagated
at almost all forums . Only then Sangat will stop entertaining & start exposing these self made scholars , maybe forcing them to mend their ways .
Regards ,
Dalbir Singh

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Dear Randip Singh Ji ,
WJKK WJKF
This is an excellent article by you . A tremendous effort considering the pro - Veg Sikh lobby is trying to show as if being non- Veg is the utmost Anti - Sikh practice one can indulge in , a matter of life & death . Das came accross this book ' SIKH SIDHANT ' by Iqbal Singh Ji ( Baba ) of Gurudwara Baru Sahib , Kalgidhar Trust , H P . This book at first look seems to chart out clearly the principles of Sikhism in simple language & brief words . But actually , it is a out & out attempt to promote Vegetarianism in Sikhs , almost 50 % of this book is devoted to the cause of vegetarianism . It demonises Non - Veg food as if eating it would be the biggest BAJAR KURAHIT according to Sikh principles . The very same examples r used to prove their point , but the extreme attitude & language used to shun Non - Veg food points to much more than meets the eye , some deeper motive at work . These self made scholars have started taking Gurbani & Sikhism principles for a ride of lately with almost everybody jumping on to the bandwagon turning it into a free for all wrestling bout . I feel this effort of urs is an excellent one & should be propagated
at almost all forums . Only then Sangat will stop entertaining & start exposing these self made scholars , maybe forcing them to mend their ways .
Regards ,
Dalbir Singh

Das saw one grave error in there when term masa was misused in that book.

Page 1073, Line 9
ਜਿਤਨੇ ਨਰਕ ਸੇ ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਭੋਗੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਲੇਪੁ ਨ ਮਾਸਾ ਹੇ ॥੧੨॥
जितने नरक से मनमुखि भोगै गुरमुखि लेपु न मासा हे ॥१२॥
Jiṯnė narak sė manmukẖ bẖogai gurmukẖ lėp na māsā hė. ||12||
The manmukh endures as many hells as there are; the Gurmukh is not even touched by them. ||12||
Guru Arjan Dev -

here masa(read Masha) is meant by samll measuring unit while Baba Ji was trying to make meat.(Drkhalsa and Gurpreet Singh Ji did discussed this thing with das on thier way to Rajaji National Prak last year).

RSS people wanted to scan the book and put its Hindi version anline so that Hindus could understand the basic principles of Gurmat.Das did tell them exclude the meat part.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Three other instance of the same term in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Page 127, Line 2
ਘੜੀ ਮੁਹਤ ਕਾ ਲੇਖਾ ਲੇਵੈ ਰਤੀਅਹੁ ਮਾਸਾ ਤੋਲ ਕਢਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੫॥
घड़ी मुहत का लेखा लेवै रतीअहु मासा तोल कढावणिआ ॥५॥
Gẖaṛī muhaṯ kā lėkẖā lėvai raṯī­ahu māsā ṯol kadẖāvaṇi­ā. ||5||
They are called to account for each instant and each moment. Every grain, every particle, is weighed and counted. ||5||
Guru Amar Das -

Page 170, Line 12
ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਪੂਰੇ ਕੀਏ ਖਿਨੁ ਮਾਸਾ ਤੋਲੁ ਨ ਘਟੀਐ ॥੫॥੫॥੧੯॥੫੭॥
जन नानक हरि प्रभि पूरे कीए खिनु मासा तोलु न घटीऐ ॥५॥५॥१९॥५७॥
Jan Nānak har parabẖ pūrė kī­ė kẖin māsā ṯol na gẖatī­ai. ||5||5||19||57||
The Lord God has made servant Nanak perfect; he is not diminished by even the tiniest particle. ||5||5||19||57||
Guru Ram Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok



Page 1239, Line 16
ਤੋਲਾ ਮਾਸਾ ਰਤਕ ਪਾਇ ॥
तोला मासा रतक पाइ ॥
Ŧolā māsā raṯak pā­ė.
What weights can balance the scale?
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

 

[Archived_Member4]

Based on facts of history some say the Guru(s) ate meat and some say they did not. Whatever the case, no one can be the judge on what the Gurus did as right or wrong.

The Sikhs are forbidden to eat ritual slaughtered meat (kutha, kosher, etc, etc). Meat that can be eaten is Jhatka meat (meat in which the animal has been killed with one strike without suffering or religious rituals being performed). In this case Jhatka meat is allowed. Some Nihang Singhs eat Jhatka meat which is allowed. Now to take Jhatka meat and compare it against how animals are being killed at slaughter houses are two different situations. At slaughter houses some animals suffer at death and some do not suffer, they are killed without feeling any pain. The certainty to know that no animal suffered at a slaughter house is highly unlikely. Also to say that all animals suffer at slaughter houses cannot be true. Therefore a Sikh cannot eat meat from a slaughter house. To know if it is Jatka meat one has to say all animals killed at a slaughter house do not suffer when killed.

To determine if the meat is Jhatka meat one as two options: Either raise the animal yourself and kill it with one strike or trust another that will follow the Jhatka way.

Eating at restaurants or buying meat from a market (grocery store, etc, etc) one cannot determine whether it is Jhatka meat. Therefore the Sikh should not, must not, eat that meat.

This is the conclusion that I have come to after reading the article that started this thread. I have taken into consideration that the sources given by this article are not biased one way or the other.

If one wants to challenge this article he/she must look at whether the sources given are credible and reliable to prove that meat is not completely forbidden in Sikhism.


I for one do not eat flesh of an animal at all. I have made this conscience choice for myself and will not force any one else to take the same position as I on this issue and if I have made the mistake to or my words have mislead anyone that eating Jhatka meat is wrong please forgive me.

 

[lalihayer]

I have not read whole thread, but I always remember shabad from Guru Nanak on Panna 1289, line 15
ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥

I think this shabad supersede all the tuks presented by debaters. It does not matter if you eat meat or eggs or vegetables or if you are pescatarian, flexitarian, lacto-ovo-vegetarians or vegan. Our respected Sri Guru Granth Sahib is not some sharia book, but is path to spiritual salvation. So gurmukho, let's stop debating on this subject and move on.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

ussualy bloo dis clotted in Halal and a stench comes from it while same it not ture with Jhataka.

 

[Randip Singh]

Dear Randip Singh Ji ,

WJKK WJKF
This is an excellent article by you . A tremendous effort considering the pro - Veg Sikh lobby is trying to show as if being non- Veg is the utmost Anti - Sikh practice one can indulge in , a matter of life & death . Das came accross this book ' SIKH SIDHANT ' by Iqbal Singh Ji ( Baba ) of Gurudwara Baru Sahib , Kalgidhar Trust , H P . This book at first look seems to chart out clearly the principles of Sikhism in simple language & brief words . But actually , it is a out & out attempt to promote Vegetarianism in Sikhs , almost 50 % of this book is devoted to the cause of vegetarianism . It demonises Non - Veg food as if eating it would be the biggest BAJAR KURAHIT according to Sikh principles . The very same examples r used to prove their point , but the extreme attitude & language used to shun Non - Veg food points to much more than meets the eye , some deeper motive at work . These self made scholars have started taking Gurbani & Sikhism principles for a ride of lately with almost everybody jumping on to the bandwagon turning it into a free for all wrestling bout . I feel this effort of urs is an excellent one & should be propagated
at almost all forums . Only then Sangat will stop entertaining & start exposing these self made scholars , maybe forcing them to mend their ways .
Regards ,
Dalbir Singh

Hi Dal ji,

This essay was not actually about meat eating ironically nor written by me. I just edited and put it together in a legible manner writings of two people (who wish not to be named , but one a very strict vegetarian and another a meat eater).

It is in effect about the use of Bani to push certain agenda's. Sikhism is being pushed an pulled by Sant Matt walay, Dera walay, Hinduvata, Extremists, various sects etc etc and the message of Sikhism is getting distorted (the Vashnavite views seem to be clouding the clear message of Sikhi). The most controversial issue in Sikhism, (Meat Eating), is a good place to see where this message is being clouded so starkly. To my mind this subject was chosen because it is so polar and views can be shown one way or another.

I think it is healthy to have debate, but when personal comments are made then debate and reason get lost. There is no point "arguing like fools". Look at History and see what actually happened. Read the writings of scholars on this issue. Understand metaphors. Understand the Universality of Sikhi.

I remember reading on one site (where there was quite an egotistical fellow from the GNNSJ, who claimed Varan Bhai Gurdas was the key to Bani and Bhai Gurdas had claimed meat eating was prohibited. Then someone posted this:

Vaar 23 Pauri 13 Lesson from Goat​

hasati akhaaju gumaan kari seehu sataanaa koi n khaaee|
The proud elephant is inedible and none eats the mighty lion.​

hoi nimaanee bakaree deen dunee vadiaaee paaee|
Goat is humble and hence it is respected everywhere.​

maranai paranai manneeai jagi bhogi paravaanu karaaee|
On occasions of death, joy, marriage, yajna, etc only its meat is accepted.​

maasu pavitr grihasat no aandahu taar veechaari vajaaee|
Among the householders its meat is acknowledged as sacred and with its gut stringed instruments are made.​

chamarhay deeaan kari juteeaa saadhoo charan sarani|iv|aaee|
From its leather the shoes are made to be used by the saints merged in their meditation upon the Lord.​

toor pakhaavaj marheeday keeratanu saadhasangati sukhadaaee|
Drums are mounted by its skin and then in the holy congregation the delight-giving kirtan, eulogy of the Lord, is sung.​

saadhasangati satigur saranaaee ॥13॥
In fact, going to the holy congregation is the same as going to the shelter of the true Guru.​

What followed was one of the most amusing yet hate filled series of personal attacks between an egotistical meat eater and an egotistical vegetarian. Neither realised Bhai Gurdases Varan are the key to Bani because they are metaphors. Understand the metaphor, and then understand Bani. The reality being there is no view on diet in Sikhi. Sikhi says consume what's good for your mind and body. If YOUR conscience says don't eat meat, then don't, if your conscience says eat it, then carry on, but do not judge others!

Thanks

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Das has seen three orders in Sikhs with hystriya and if they are not tamed timly then before their self destrcution due to illogical and inpractical ideolgy,they may casue some harm to Panthic welfare as they may make us waste time to answer thier childish things.Which sometimes exceeds the limit of lunatic jinigoism.
1.Anti meat.(with all type of useless ritualism and dreaming and act of some Sikhs superceding Gurbani)
2.Anti to any bani other then of Guru Granth Sahib Ji(with translation and explantion totaly latest resmebling that of leftist ideology).
3.Castists(to defend the income for thier family they run some places of worship and do not want people from weak section get thier due).

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Promoting JHATKA

Gurfateh

Das wants to add a thing over here.By telling us to not to eat pork or eat halal or say come to mosque for Salat.Muslims brthern do a sort of Dava(invitation to join Islam).

Das find nothing wrong in them.We can also invite them to eat Jhataka,not to smoke and come to Gurudwara Sahib doing our Dava for 73rd Shara of Islam ie Gurmat.As we are the true hindu,True Muslim,Treu Christian as we are the treu Sikhs.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Promoting JHATKA

Gurfateh

SINGH SOORMEIN Chadde Shikaar, Makhi Gheri Wich Bazaar
Mari Nahi par Langdi Keeni, SINGH SOORMEIN bahduri Kinni

Killing defenceless animals is COWARDICE and not Bravery. Killing another human in a battle is a different psychology and mindset, to killing defenceless animals as they do not strike back. How can killing animals for practice as suggested by some scholars be taken as an alternative to whom you will be facing in a battleground. In the battlefield ones opponent is equally intelligent and equipped as the other. This thought is absurd as used by some ignorant scholars.

Such acts/thoughts constitute degradation of ones Consciousness. Mercilessness is a sure sign of demotion of life to the Vicious Animal Kingdom and a spiritually punishable act. It is well known that meat eating animals are merciless. They are under their Hukam to kill eat and sleep. According to gurbani …………. Feel free to join them. In the last moments of ones life when one dies with such a conscience/desire, he will take birth in the animal kingdom and be subjected to the same treatment. The choice is yours. Gurbani emphasizes this point time and again.
Killing is contrary to the teachings of Our Gurus. Raise your consciousness and awareness if you can.

Ritual Slaughter is forbidden as God needs not appeasing as the killer and being killed are one and the same. Ritual slaughter is forbidden by our Gurus, because such acts are undertaken in the pretence to appease God. Jhatka on the other hand and on the same lines is to appease oneself. How can one method of killing be acceptable and other not.

Islam flourished among the Nomads in the Middle East. Each tribe followed the rituals of their own tribe to kill animals. Islam, in order to unify the system under one umbrella devised this tactic and enforced their view that all killings will be done only in the name of Allah.

Hindus on the other hand were more conscious. The sacred text they recite implies to the fact that “O Lord we are fully aware of what we are doing and we take full responsibility for our actions. We stand fully accountable for our acts. In the future should this animal need our sacrifice we will willingly oblige”. This is an indication of a higher state of consciousness. Incidentally, Hindu way of sacrifice is Jhatka.

It appears that those illiterate nomads were either too smart or too dumb to follow their Prophet. In either case they were unified on one stance. Comparatively Sikhs of today are too dumb to understand their Gurus message. Guru tells them “Do not eat Halaal” as it is done to appease god. Instead of understanding Gurus reasoning they dig an alternative path. You kill to satisfy your own urges, it is your own Karmas. As you sow, so shall you reap is the message of our Gurus. Do not be misled. Do not let anyone fool you. Bear in mind that the promoters of such acts are themselves vegetarians and are digging a deep pit for others. They preach different to what they themselves practice. They are Demons is Disguise. They are your worst enemies.

Plants too have a life but carries a lesser punishment and is compensated by Naam Simran. The example of the sugarcane is to show the simple minded that even if you are as humble and sweet as a sugarcane in your actions and karmas, because you have not done Naam Simran. Like the sugarcane you will still be subjected to the fate similar to that of the sugarcane. Some simple minded scholars take the literal sense. Guru is emphasizing here the importance of Naam Simran and using the context of humbleness and sweetness of the sugarcane. Some ignorant due to their agyaanta use it to demonstrate the plight of the plant in comparison to killing of animals.

We are all humans and yet we are different. This is due to the level of our Consciousness. Those with elevated consciousness become Bhagats, Sadhus and Saints and leave this realm. Others will bounce up and down like a yoyo hopping up and down in lower lives and consciousness.

Bhagat Sadhna, who ran a family business of a butchery gave up his business in the pursuit of Naam. The effect of Naam Simran is such that Sadhna from being a Butcher, after being made to realise that his actions were incorrect he became a Bhagat and is honoured in SGGS. I wonder why Naam Simran has no effect on those so called Sikhs that seem to promote / mislead others into a ditch.

Well Maneka Gandhi is distant relative of Das(she is maternal aunt).das find yourself fit to join her and kill das who eats meat.All meat eaters should be burnt alive.Let animals live.In Hindus sometime Animals are treated like Gods.Dalits in Jhajjer are killed just as they were taking hides of dead cow.

Sikhs are no where far behind.Taksali Kharkos killed butchers as they were killing cows in 1992.Very well done.

 

[bade_ustaad]

Re: Promoting JHATKA

Gurfateh

Well Maneka Gandhi is distant relative of Das(she is maternal aunt).das find yourself fit to join her and kill das who eats meat.All meat eaters should be burnt alive.Let animals live.In Hindus sometime Animals are treated like Gods.Dalits in Jhajjer are killed just as they were taking hides of dead cow.

Sikhs are no where far behind.Taksali Kharkos killed butchers as they were killing cows in 1992.Very well done.

It does not matter who you are. You too are part of the creation. As per your Karmas your Vichaar shall be done.

ਅਸੰਖ ਮੂਰਖ ਅੰਧ ਘੋਰ ॥ Asaʼnkẖ mūrakẖ anḏẖ gẖor.
Countless fools, blinded by ignorance.
ਅਸੰਖ ਚੋਰ ਹਰਾਮਖੋਰ ॥ Asaʼnkẖ cẖor harāmkẖor.
Countless thieves and embezzlers.
ਅਸੰਖ ਅਮਰ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਜੋਰ ॥ Asaʼnkẖ amar kar jāhi jor.
Countless impose their will by force.
ਅਸੰਖ ਗਲਵਢ ਹਤਿਆ ਕਮਾਹਿ ॥ Asaʼnkẖ galvadẖ haṯi*ā kamāhi.
Countless cut-throats and ruthless killers.
ਅਸੰਖ ਪਾਪੀ ਪਾਪੁ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਹਿ ॥ Asaʼnkẖ pāpī pāp kar jāhi.
Countless sinners who keep on sinning.
ਅਸੰਖ ਕੂੜਿਆਰ ਕੂੜੇ ਫਿਰਾਹਿ ॥ Asaʼnkẖ kūṛi*ār kūṛė firāhi.
Countless liars, wandering lost in their lies.
ਅਸੰਖ ਮਲੇਛ ਮਲੁ ਭਖਿ ਖਾਹਿ ॥ Asaʼnkẖ malėcẖẖ mal bẖakẖ kẖāhi.
Countless wretches, eating filth as their ration.
ਅਸੰਖ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਸਿਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਭਾਰੁ ॥ Asaʼnkẖ ninḏak sir karahi bẖār.
Countless slanderers, carrying the weight of their stupid mistakes on their heads. ਨਾਨਕੁ ਨੀਚੁ ਕਹੈ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ Nānak nīcẖ kahai vīcẖār.
Nanak describes the state of the lowly.
ਵਾਰਿਆ ਨ ਜਾਵਾ ਏਕ ਵਾਰ ॥ vāri*ā na jāvā ėk vār.
I cannot even once be a sacrifice to You.
ਜੋ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸਾਈ ਭਲੀ ਕਾਰ ॥ Jo ṯuḏẖ bẖāvai sā*ī bẖalī kār.
Whatever pleases You is the only good done,

ਤੂ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ॥੧੮॥ Ŧū saḏā salāmaṯ nirankār. ||18||
You, Eternal and Formless One. ||18||
This is not my problem but of the individual that needs growing up. Your lack of understanding of Gurmat is not my problem and Gurmat is categorically not any part of Shara of Islaam. This is your misconception.

Try to understand Gurbani and put you mind at rest.

I need not read "here is a 43 page discussion on Meat issue with inputs from many people.If you have any arguement then put it in that discussion after reading the discussion"

Common sense and Gurus Blessings are my guide and not comments of
ਅਸੰਖ ਮੂਰਖ ਅੰਧ ਘੋਰ ॥ Asaʼnkẖ mūrakẖ anḏẖ gẖor.
Countless fools, blinded by ignorance.
There are many who are like minded and may share your views. These are your worldly views and i have not intension to cart rubbish along with me. If it fits your palette you live by it.

 

[Archived_member7]

Re: Promoting JHATKA

Again this discussion seems to part ways from the issue..what my point Bhai amar is ..our choice ...nobody can enforce their opinion ..which islam has been doing ..if sikhs and hindus do not want halal ..they should be strong enough to make their opinion strong..atleast in Hindustan ...

I respect vegeterianism.however bade ustaad ji ..we r not discussing pros and cons of vegeterianism..

i make my point clear again..OUR CHOICE ..THE AVAILABILITY TO OUR CHOICE ...

Raaj Karega Khalsa

 

[bade_ustaad]

Re: Promoting JHATKA

Again this discussion seems to part ways from the issue..what my point Bhai amar is ..our choice ...nobody can enforce their opinion ..which islam has been doing ..if sikhs and hindus do not want halal ..they should be strong enough to make their opinion strong..atleast in Hindustan ...

I respect vegeterianism.however bade ustaad ji ..we r not discussing pros and cons of vegeterianism..

i make my point clear again..OUR CHOICE ..THE AVAILABILITY TO OUR CHOICE ...

Raaj Karega Khalsa

Your choice is there as a Non-Sikh but not as a Sikh. Do not bend rules of sikhism to suit you.

॥ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਧਰਤੀ ਧਰਮ ਹੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਜੇਹਾ ਕੋ ਬੀਜੇ ਤੇਹਾ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਏ ॥ਗੁਰਸਿਖੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਬੀਜਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਫਲੁ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਏ ॥ਓਨਾ ਹਲਤਿ ਪਲਤਿ ਮੁਖ ਉਜਲੇ ਓਇ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਸਚੀ ਪੈਨਾਏ ॥ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਖੋਟੁ ਨਿਤ ਖੋਟੁ ਕਮਾਵਹਿ ਓਹੁ ਜੇਹਾ ਬੀਜੇ ਤੇਹਾ ਫਲੁ ਖਾਏ ॥ਜਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਰਾਫੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖੈ ਸੁਆਵਗੀਰ ਸਭਿ ਉਘੜਿ ਆਏ ॥ਓਇ ਜੇਹਾ ਚਿਤਵਹਿ ਨਿਤ ਤੇਹਾ ਪਾਇਨਿ ਓਇ ਤੇਹੋ ਜੇਹੇ ਦਯਿ ਵਜਾਏ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਦੁਹੀ ਸਿਰੀ ਖਸਮੁ ਆਪੇ ਵਰਤੈ ਨਿਤ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖੈ ਚਲਤ ਸਬਾਏ ॥੧॥ Shalok, Fourth Mehl:The True Guru is the field of Dharma; as one plants the seeds there, so are the fruits obtained.The GurSikhs plant ambrosial nectar, and obtain the Lord as their ambrosial fruit.Their faces are radiant in this world and the next; in the Court of the Lord, they are robed with honor.Some have cruelty in their hearts - they constantly act in cruelty; as they plant, so are the fruits which they eat.When the True Guru, the Tester, observes with His Glance, the selfish ones are all exposed.As one thinks, so does he receive, and so does the Lord make him known.O Nanak, the Lord and Master is pervading at both ends; He continually acts, and beholds His own play. ||1||

The choice is this: either you follow Sikhism and abide by the Gurbani or You feel free and follow your mind. Here as you sow so shall you reap. Guru will expose those that have cruelty in their hearts. With a certain lower conscious one can neither participate in ritual killing nor jhatka. When Jhatka is prformed why do they say "Boley So nihaal, Sat sri akaal" Does that not make this Jhatka killing Halaal.

As a Sikh you DO NOT have a choice. One that has these thought when they reside deep down in ones conscious, they will become action. Pure thoughts leads to Higher Conscious and cruel thoughts lead to Lower Conscious. This is the choice you have. This is your choice.

Khalsa means Pure. One of a Higher conscious. Unfortunately your thoughts are not in line with your Name. A good name brings good qualities in a person. Here a Khalsa thinks Nakhalas. Great contradiction!!! Enough is said here. The choice is indeed yours.

Whether Jhatka or Halal the end result is the same. The animal dies. You sown the seeds. You reep the results. These are the pros and cons of being a sikh.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Re: Promoting JHATKA

Then on what basis fanatic vegetarian sikhs blame that meat eating sikhs are bending rule of Sikhism?

As i was one of those fanatics vegetarians Sikhs and its simply because when some Sikhs took amrit they were and still can be adviced by the panj pyare not to eat meat and the vegetarian Sikhs stick to this and will due whatever it takes to defend it. It shows they stick to what the Panj Pyare told them so in a sense they really are just sticking to their Sikhi.

 

[kds1980]

Re: Promoting JHATKA

Since you are in a position of authority, Tell the forum how you have mastered the five vices to be able to command authority. Tell the forum how you would go about conquering each of them.

Who is dictating Here me or you.You are here trying to be guru of sikhs not me.Did I said that all sikhs shoukld eat meat?

Do you not understand "As you sow so shall you reap" as per SGGS. If you cannot reply to the above then i suggest you shut up and keep your ideas to yourself.

Yes I do try to understand this tuk with the intellect waheguru has blessed me.There are places in world like coastal areas where human survive by eating seafood .also millions of insects small animals are killed in harvestation what about them

Also I want to tell you that milk is also obtained cruelly from animals but still it is served in langar.Get
out of your imaginery world that cows and buffaloes happily give humans their milk.So many calves die because of lack of milk

I am sure after reading this you will never touch any milk or milk product.If you still do then stop preaching others about days

 

[Randip Singh]

Re: Promoting JHATKA

As i was one of those fanatics vegetarians Sikhs and its simply because when some Sikhs took amrit they were and still can be adviced by the panj pyare not to eat meat and the vegetarian Sikhs stick to this and will due whatever it takes to defend it. It shows they stick to what the Panj Pyare told them so in a sense they really are just sticking to their Sikhi.

Keep meat deabtes here:

http://www.sikhism.us/essays-on-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html

As you know and I know it very well depends on who gives you Amrit. I took Amrit in India, in Punjab and meat eating was never mentioned or an issue (from the Panj Pyarey). Nihang groups do especially make an issue of it, and they are the oldest warrior group amongst Sikhs.

Why has Vege vs Meat become and issue in Sikhi when it has been ruled on?

So let us reflect on this in a cool calm manner. Sikhism has the ability to absorb many and varied people.

I repeat again meat and vege discussion areto be confined on the above link.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Promoting JHATKA

I am glad to note that you understand the tuk. Therefore you should have no regrets for your state of health. You preceding statement however casts doubt on your understanding. Those people living in the costal areas eating seafood are no different to those eating meat products on land. They are have fallen in a life cycle where they are trapped and devoid of the understanding of their actions. They too are subjected to “Karmi avey kapda, Nadri mokh duwar” As they sow, so do they reap. One is usually born in the vicinity of ones previous life so that you can pay your dues to those souls around you that you owe due to your deeds . You can decide to go to the costal areas if you find that life appealing or you could go and live among the Holy where your karmas will be transformed to something better and a state of higher consciousness.

The inability of a poor student cannot be compensated.
I always thought coastal regions would have holy people but NOW I know they don't! I thought holy people were found all over the place but NOW I know they are only found among the vegetarians!
Thanks for enlightening us!
:ice:

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Promoting JHATKA

Animals and humans have a bond. Humans look after animals and in turn they share their milk. It is give and take with a balanced understanding. Those that become greedy and torture animals are again answerable for their acts. You are a human being with a superior understanding to the animals. You should know better.

http://k53.pbase.com/o4/49/607449/1/56083744.IMG_2136e_web.jpgvery special bond indeed! :yes:

DAMN! what should I eat? I have bonded with those darn plants!!! :hmm:

 

[kds1980]

Re: Promoting JHATKA

Animals and humans have a bond. Humans look after animals and in turn they share their milk. It is give and take with a balanced understanding. Those that become greedy and torture animals are again answerable for their acts. You are a human being with a superior understanding to the animals. You should know better.

In which imaginery world you are living.Animals sharing their milk

Humans simply steal it they tie cows in tied shed.Inject them with hormones.Do not allow their calves
to fill their stomachs and you are calling it bond.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Promoting JHATKA

Mindless Post Deleted

In which imaginery world you are living.Animals sharing their milk

Humans simply steal it they tie cows in tied shed.Inject them with hormones.Do not allow their calves
to fill their stomachs and you are calling it bond.

I've said it once and i won't say it again!!

http://k53.pbase.com/o4/49/607449/1/56083744.IMG_2136e_web.jpg It's a very special bond kds ji! :yes: