Hinduism Gayatri Mantra

[Harry Haller]

Sat Sri Akal Jasnoor,
This is in response to what was mentioned earlier. You said: " It sounds like Sikhs are very strict when it comes to rejecting other religious practices." The fact of the matter is not about being strict in the rejection of other religious practices per se as much as it is about following the simple way of life as prescribed by the Sri Guu Granth Sahib Ji. It is the Sri Guru Granth Sahib that provides us with Gurbani which contains a bounty of soul-soothing shabads that addresses the human condition precisely and it is the gurbani that we regard as the true saviour. Consider what Guru Amar Das Ji, the third Sikh Guru said and which I believe also appears in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji something that has been quoted several times over: Baani Guru, Guru Hai Baani. For Sikhs the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and the Gurbani it contains is an embodiment of the ten Gurus and is the last everlasting Guru.

To extend this, it is never wrong to explore other religious texts as such things can be done for research and education purposes, or any related pursuits. However, the only part that I can think some can misinterpret as "strict" would be the fact that Sikhs cannot consider any other religious texts as the Living Guru. But this is an understanding one reaches after exploring Gurbani and understanding its message and purpose. This is not something that someone is forced to do. Sikhs, I am referring to the individual that follows Sikh rehatmaryada, is amritdhari, and tries the best to include the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and implement them in their life, and of course always searches for the truth and works to defend it. Sikhs who are Amritdhari and follow the aforementioned criteria, can read other religious texts but cannot refer to these texts as The Living Divine or practice anything in conflict with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji's teachings. A Sikh would not require to chant the Gayatri Mantra because they would've already accepted Guru as Bani, and as such are elated in the spiritual fulfillment that Baani provides which eliminates any need to chant things in praise of dieties and such. Sikhs do not refute the integrity of other religious practices in this sense, Sikhs are strong believers of religious freedom. Sikhs only reject false types of worship as outlined in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
So I hope that helps, please offer corrections if you feel I have misspoken.

All the best in your research endeavors.
Phul Chuk Maaf.
Sukrit Kaur

Excellent post, shows insight and enlightenment way beyond your age

 

[sanj007]

Though reciting or listening to the 'Gayatri Mantra' won't make anyone a lesser Sikh, but it is philosophically condemnable. People around the world are turning towards Monotheism and Agnosticism, in the view of and educated and forward-looking person like me, reciting mantras glorifying non-existent Gods/Goddesses would be a thing I can certainly do without.
.

Sanatan Dharma (hinduism real name) is pluralistic faith,, ie accepts different paths to God, also there is one God in the faith:
http://agniveer.com/2708/vedic-god/

The Supreme One who represents selflessness, controls the entire universe, is present everywhere and is the Devata of all Devatas, alone is source of bliss. Those who do not understand Him remain drenched in sorrow and those who realize Him achieve unconditional happiness. (Rigveda 1.164.39)

 

[sanj007]

Also there is no lower nor higher caste, just one caste human, each human being has their own trade or function gained by their efforsts and each function has dignity of labour, so anyone who discriminates cannot acheieve Moksha(merging with God so to speak) and endgame for Hindu faith.:
http://agniveer.com/821/vedas-and-shudra/

Yajurved 26.2:
The way I gave this knowledge of Vedas for benefit of all humans, similarly you all also propagate the same for benefit of Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Shudras, Vaishyas, Women and even most downtrodden. The scholars and the wealthy people should ensure that they not deviate from this message of mine.

 

[sanj007]

Also there is no lower nor higher caste, just one caste human, each human being has their own trade or function gained by their efforts and each function has dignity of labour, so anyone who discriminates cannot acheieve Moksha(merging with God so to speak) and endgame for Hindu faith.:
http://agniveer.com/821/vedas-and-shudra/

Yajurved 26.2:
The way I gave this knowledge of Vedas for benefit of all humans, similarly you all also propagate the same for benefit of Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Shudras, Vaishyas, Women and even most downtrodden. The scholars and the wealthy people should ensure that they not deviate from this message of mine.

 

[aristotle]

Hinduism is not Monotheistic

(The article may seem vulgar to many, but it is only for the sake of illustration that I have included this article from a third party Hindu website)
In one important aspect of Hinduism, there is the Trinity of Brahma (Creator), Vishnu (Preserver) and Shiva (Destroyer). In this regard, no one of these Deities is Supreme over the other. The three is a recognition of the positive duality ("triality") of life. Basically, Spirituality-Reality/Life is simultaneously creating, preserving and destroying. In the major sects of Hinduism, the Deity assumes all three aspects. To the Saivite, Siva is all three; to the Vaishnava, Vishnu is all three; to the Saktite, the Divine Mother is all three and in Liberal Hinduism (Smarta Sampradaya) the Trimurti is accented.​

The importance of understanding the natural and inevitable positive and negative life, or creative and destructive aspects of life cannot be overstated. Destruction is the natural and beneficial "other half" of creation. New life depends on the shedding of the old. A healthy forest must occasionally experience the fires of destruction. A healthy organism sheds old cells and bacterial and creates new cells in a perpetual life dance of creation/preservation/destruction. Sure we all like the creative aspects of life and often try (to no avail) to avoid the destructive. In the natural and inevitable "down-times" of life, we may say "It sucks!" True, but every inhale is followed by an exhale and life goes on. Sadly, monotheistic religions only want to see "God" as the creative and positive aspect of life and must then create an equally illusionary "Devil" to play the role of the destruction and negativity. In reality, they are one/many.​

To emphasize the fact that Hinduism is not a monotheistic religion, it is not a coincidence that "The Creator" Brahma was basically kicked out (but still retained) of the Hindu pantheon of Spiritual Beings. In a tale celebrated during the yearly festival of Sivalaya Deepam, Siva (playing the part of the Divine Father) manifests to Brahma and Vishnu as a boundless pillar of Light (deep). Thinking He is The Creator, Brahma fly's off in search of the top. Vishnu assumes the form of a boar and seeks the bottom. Both are unsuccessful and return to the center. Vishnu admits to finding no bottom. Brahma, however, lies (and enlists the aid of an innocent flower to corroborate his fabrication) and says he found the top. At this moment, Siva appears from the middle of the pillar of light stating the pillar has no beginning or end. To this day, there are basically no Hindu temples to Brahma.
Source: http://www.classicalyoga.org/Hinduism-is-not-Monotheistic.php

​

“…for a Hindu it is extremely difficult to realize the possibility of existence of the only God whom he/she could worship or prayed to. It is beyond his/her understanding because the Hindu perceives other gods, which are not ‘his’/‘her’, as various aspects of the god he/she worships.

As a result, and it is necessary to underline this fact, polytheists, such as adepts of Hinduism, are more tolerant in relation to other religions or gods and they won’t proclaim Jihad (a sacred war) as Muslims sometimes do.

Consequently, prosecution or proselytization of adepts of other religions can never exist in such a polytheistic environment as Hindu.”
Source: http://www.ivarta.com/columns/OL_070313.htm
...

Simply because the Hindu society permits the worship of many 'Gods' under a single umbrella body of 'Hinduism' does not mean that Hindu philosophy is 'Monotheistic'.
In reality, it is a porridge of numerous philosophies squeezed into one. How would you, for example, defend Hindu monotheism when the Yogi sect and Sage Patanjali out-rightly reject the very existence of a supreme being, retaining only the concept of a personal 'Atman'. In actual practice, there are different Hindu Gods, every God is called a self-sufficient Supreme being just fr the sake of religious glorification, and this amounts to a certainly 'Polytheistic' philosophy.
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[aristotle]

The Hindu Caste System

The twice born may account for as much as 48% of Hindus, though I have now seen the number put at more like 18% -- quite a difference but more believable. The Shudras (58% of Hindus) may represent the institutional provision that the Arya made for the people they already found in India.

The Shudras thus remain once born, and traditionally were not allowed to learn Sanskrit or study the Vedas -- on pain of death. Their dharma is to work for the twice born. But even below the Shudras are the Untouchables (24% of Hindus), who are literally "outcastes,"

(jâtibhras.t.a), without a varn.a, and were regarded as "untouchable" because they are ritually polluting for caste Hindus. Some Untouchable subcastes are regarded as so polluted that members are supposed to keep out of sight and do their work at night: They are called "Unseeables."
In India, the term "Untouchable" is now regarded as insulting or politically incorrect (like Eta in Japan for the traditional tanners and pariahs). Gandhi's Harijans ("children of God") or Dalits,

("downtrodden"), are prefered, though to Americans "Untouchables" would sound more like the gangster-busting federal agent Elliot Ness from the 1920's. Why there are so many Untouchables is unclear, although caste Hindus can be ejected from their jâtis and become outcastes and various tribal or formerly tribal people in India may never have been properly integrated into the social system. When Mahâtmâ Gandhi's subcaste refused him permission to go to England, as noted above, he went anyway and was ejected from the caste. After he returned, his family got him back in, but while in England he was technically an outcaste. Existing tribal people as well as Untouchables are also called the "scheduled castes" or "scheduled tribes," since the British drew up a "schedule" listing the castes that they regarded as backwards, underprivileged, or oppressed.
The Untouchables, nevertheless, have their own traditional professions and their own subcastes. Those professions (unless they can be evaded in the greater social mobility of modern, urban, anonymous life) involve too much pollution to be performed by caste Hindus: (1) dealing with the bodies of dead animals (like the sacred cattle that wander Indian villages) or unclaimed dead humans -- and the caste charged with conducting cremations on the ghats (ghât.,

) at Benares (Hindi Banâras,

, or Sanskrit Vârân.asî,

, which oddly has become the standard politically correct name for the place, despite a perfectly good name in Hindi), the most sacred place for a funeral in India, nevertheless is itself of Untouchables -- castes dealing with corpses may specifically be called cân.d.âla (cãd.âla),

, castes; (2) tanning leather, from such dead animals, and manufacturing leather goods; and (3) cleaning up the human and animal waste for which in traditional villages there is no sewer system. Mahâtmâ Gandhi referred to the latter euphemistically as "scavenging" but saw in it the most horrible thing imposed on the Untouchables by the caste system. Latrines might be cleaned out by hand, or with no instrument more modern than a piece of cardboard. Gandhi's requirement on his farms in South Africa that everyone share in such tasks comes up in an early scene in the movie Gandhi. Since Gandhi equated suffering with holiness, he saw the Untouchables as hallowed by their miserable treatment and so called them "Harijans" (Hari=Vis.n.u). Later Gandhi went on fasts in the hope of improving the condition of the Untouchables, or at least to avoid their being politically classified as non-Hindus. That Untouchables have over time had recourse by conversion to other religions, most recently Buddhism or the Baha'i Faith, but historically mostly to Islâm, has added an element of caste prejudice to Hindu-Muslim relations.

 

[sanj007]

Again let us see verses in scriptures on One God, who can have many names with different representations:
http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/Homework/religion/hinduism.htm

Why are there so many Hindu Gods?

Hindus actually only believe in one God, Brahman, the eternal origin who is the cause and foundation of all existence. The gods of the Hindu faith represent different forms of Brahman. These gods are sent to help people find the universal God (Brahman).

Simple enough i hope

 

[sanj007]

Now again let us primal points in Sanatan Dharma:

1)

In The Bhagawad Gita, sloka 20, Chapter 10, Lord Krishna says,

"I am the Self seated in the heart of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle and the very end of all beings". All beings have, therefore to be treated alike

<TABLE class=last-child border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY class=last-child><TR class=last-child><TD class="alt2 quote_block last-child">In The Bhagawad Gita, sloka 20, Chapter 10, Lord Krishna says,

"I am the Self seated in the heart of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle and the very end of all beings". All beings have, therefore to be treated alike.

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note ALL beings, no one excluded, simple enough

2) Karma Yoga-selfless service or sewa:

Therefore, always perform your duty efficiently
and without attachment to the results,
because by doing work without attachment one attains the Supreme.



King Janaka and others attained perfection
by Karma-yoga alone.
You should perform your duty with a view to guide people
and for the universal welfare (of the society).



Because, whatever noble persons do, others follow.
Whatever standard they set up, the world follows.

3) prime goal-MOKSHA-merging with god so to speak, going to heaven so to speak,
Now this can only be attained by leading a good life, a righteous life, free from vices.

So we see basis then an intersting article which reconciles back to basis and gives the truth unlike articles which cannot reconcile back to primal points and individuals who do not understand:
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion...vedas-hindu-scriptures-prohibit-casteism.html

Thus, the central command of the 14 harmony richas and 10 profession not hereditary richas of Vedas is that all Hindus are totally equal by birth, of one bunch, share same water and food, worship together united in same temple, common are prayers, common purpose, common thoughts, united like spokes of a wheel, common oblation and friendly towards each others.

One becomes a warrior (Rajnya), Brahman (educated ones) or rishi, not by birth but by his efforts/training (karma) vide RV (X.125.5). No one is superior and no one is inferior by birth.

Again simple enough, those that come without prejudice will understand!
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[aristotle]

@Dogra Ji,
I) How would you explain:
* Rishi Shambhook, a Shudra, being mercilessly killed by 'Lord' Rama for no fault of his.
* Eklavya, belonging to a low caste family, denied education.
* Numerous other such mythological stories from authentic Hindu scriptures.

Moreover, the link you provided itself states the quote from Gita,
“Chaturvarnyma mayaa sristam gunkarma vibhagsah”
(Four orders of society created by 'Me' according to their Guna and Karma.
*Both the words Guna and Karma (=the fruit of deeds in previous lives, amounting to the present birth......directly suggests without any rocket science that caste system is based on 'birth' and not 'talent') have more than one meaning. And this quote suggests that EVEN AFTER dragging of meanings and euphemisms, Hinduism DOES RECOGNIZE casteism.
* I am still not mentioning the quotes from Manu Smriti which imposes heavy tortures and death penalties upon Shudras for not obeying their masters, the BRAHMINS.

II) Hinduism is invariably a polytheistic religion. Millions of deities, Gods, Goddesses, etc. explain the same.

==Please do not limit the immensity of this subject by debating on these petty topics, the topic demands far deeper metaphysical insights, rather than just defending Hinduism in vain ==

 

[sanj007]

Rishi Shambhook, a Shudra, being mercilessly killed by 'Lord' Rama for no fault of

As usual basic questioning will lead one to the truth, now lets first see how Lord Rama stayed with tribals whilst in exile:

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion...vedas-hindu-scriptures-prohibit-casteism.html

Lord Rama visited Shabri, called her a mother (mata); ate food from her hands and washed feet of Nisadraj. Lord Rama lived for years among vanvasi (tribals). So the second lesson of Ramayana is that a true Rambhakta should never discriminate against SC/ST/Dalit Hindus, should never hesitate to visit and dine with them. Mahatma Gandhi always followed both these two lessons of Ramayana.

Now as to the corrupted rubbish u talk of Shambhuka was not written in Valmikis Ramayana but added to by corrupt individuals who wanted to maintain the ir offspring in power:

Other texts like the Puranas and Mahabharatha do carry a summary of the major incidents of the events in the Ramayana and in none of them we find a mention of the Shambuka Vadha episode.There are about fourteen versions of Ramayana, and in all of them except the Adyathma Ramayana, this Shambuka episode is not mentioned. In my copy of the Adhyatma Ramayana it is omitted, because the translator found it to be spurious.

Face the facts now for the others, again note the reconciliation to the basis points of Lord residing in hearts of all beings.


2)Eklavya, belonging to a low caste family, denied education.
Now understand there is a difference between corrupt culture by individuals in higher power positions and scriptures, but let us see other cases of switching between jobs:

http://agniveer.com/888/caste-system/

Many examples exist of change of Varnas in Vedic history.
a. Aitareya Rishi was son of a Daasa or criminal but became a Brahmin of highest order and wrote Aitareya Brahman and Aitareyopanishad. Aitareya Brahman is considered critical to understand Rigveda.
b. Ailush Rishi was son of a Daasi, gambler and of low character. However he researched on Rigveda and made several discoveries. Not only was he invited by Rishis but also made an Acharya. (Aitareya Brahman 2.19)
c. Satyakaam Jaabaal was son of a prostitute but became a Brahmin.
d. Prishadh was son of King Daksha but became a Shudra. Further he did Tapasya to achieve salvation after repenting.
(Vishnu Puran 4.1.14)
Had Tapasya been banned for Shudra as per the fake story from Uttar Ramayan, how could Prishadh do so?
e. Nabhag, soon of King Nedishtha became Vaishya. Many of his sons again became Kshatriya. (Vishnu Puran 4.1.13)
f. Dhrist was son of Nabhag (Vaishya) but became Brahmin and his son became Kshatriya (VP 4.2.2)
g. Further in his generation, some became Brahmin again (VP 9.2.23)
h. As per Bhagvat, Agniveshya became Brahmin though born to a king.
i. Rathotar born in Kshatriya family became a Brahmin as per Vishnu Puran and Bhagvat.
j. Haarit became Brahmin though born to Kshatriya (VP 4.3.5)

simples!

 

[sanj007]

Moreover, the link you provided itself states the quote from Gita,
“Chaturvarnyma mayaa sristam gunkarma vibhagsah”
(Four orders of society created by 'Me' according to their Guna and Karma.
*Both the words Guna and Karma (=the fruit of deeds in previous lives, amounting to the present birth......directly suggests without any rocket science that caste system is based on 'birth' and not 'talent') have more than one meaning. And this quote suggests that EVEN AFTER dragging of meanings and euphemisms, Hinduism DOES RECOGNIZE casteism.

Oh dear, note full paragraph in link:

Supporters of casteism oftenly quote slokas (IV.13) and (XVIII.41) of Gita to support four castes by birth. In sloka (IV.13) Lord Krishna says: “Chaturvarnyma mayaa sristam gunkarma vibhagsah” i.e. four orders of society created by Me according to their Guna (qualities/behaviour) and Karma (profession/work/efforts).

Lord Krishna does not say guna and karma of previous life. In (XVIII.41) Lord Krishna says “Brahmana Kshatriya visham sudranam cha paramtapa, karmani pravibhaktani svabhavaprabhavaigunaih.” It means people have been grouped into four classes according to their present life karma (profession/work) and svabhava (behaviour).

Had this division been based on birth, Lord Krishna would have naturally used “Janmani pravibhaktani” in (XVIII.41).

simples!

So Hinduism DOES NOT recognise birth based casteism, but only one casate HUMAN, and dignity of labour of all functions, and freedom for any human being to be whatever he/she may choose and their efforts

Suggest you read following article fromAgniveer scholared in scriptures:

http://agniveer.com/888/caste-system/

The actual word used for Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra is ‘Varna’ and not Jaati.
The word ‘Varna’ is used not only for these four, but also for Dasyu and Arya.
‘Varna’ means one that is adopted by choice. Thus, while Jaati is provided by God, ‘Varna’ is our own choice

In summary, we see that the Vedic society considers all humans to be one single Jaati or race, upholds the dignity of labor and provides equal opportunity for all humans to adopt the Varna of their choice.
There is no element of birth-based discrimination of any manner in the Vedas.
May we all unite together as one integrated family, reject the last element of birth-based discrimination of any manner and embrace each other as brothers and sisters.
May we also thwart the designs of those who want to mislead us by making baseless claims of casteism in Vedas and destroy the criminals aka Dasyu/Daas/Rakshas.

Also at a lecture by Oxford uni for Hindu studies the Dr said their is no untouchability in Hinduism:
http://www.ochs.org.uk/

Again note reconciliation to basis points: God resides in hearts of all beings-Simples!

 

[sanj007]

I am still not mentioning the quotes from Manu Smriti which imposes heavy tortures and death penalties upon Shudras for not obeying their masters, the BRAHMINS.

have to laugh whenver discuss this topic u get manu smritri, now what is manu a man, so anything he says which contradicts Vedas is null and void, and also there could well have been corruption of this text:

http://agniveer.com/4272/manu-smriti-and-punishment/

this is not difficult it is up to you,, trust me i can go on and on, basic reconciliation to primal points reveals the truth from corruption. Hinduism is oldest religion, so no doubt later corruption has occured as in case of Manu and Shambuka episode, but basic questioning an dtruth reveals itself, otherwise those that make these claims cannot reconcile back to basis points.

Hinduism only one god with many manifestations of supreme being:

http://agniveer.com/2708/vedic-god/

The Supreme One who represents selflessness, controls the entire universe, is present everywhere and is the Devata of all Devatas, alone is source of bliss. Those who do not understand Him remain drenched in sorrow and those who realize Him achieve unconditional happiness. (Rigveda 1.164.39)

simple enough

It is odd non hindu faith individuals like telling hindu faith people their faith, even when scriptural evidence provides the truth!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Dogra Ji..
It should be clear by now that the "hindus" DONT FOLLOW what their religious texts say..neither do Muslims...and simialrly SIKHS also DONT FOLLOW what the Guru SGGS says..and so we get Non-hindus telling Hindus non-Sikhs telling Sikhs and non-Muslims telling Mulsims how to muslim...BUT Guru Sahibs told the HINDU..to be a GOOD HINDU..the Muslim to be a GOOD MUSLIM..and the SIKH to be a TRUE GYANI.....no attempts whatsoever to criticise the Hindus/mulsims in order to convert them to Sikhism...Mussalmman MOM DIL HOVEH..DYA..is commendable in any human hwether Hindu muslim or sikh..DYA is the First Pyara and its not just be coincidence...Now a days too many armchair holies who cant see the Elephants in front of their noses but pretend to be able to see tiny bacterial hundred miles away via a sort of Hubbles telescope they wear on their eyes !!. WE all have to Look under our collars and see what we really are deep inside...are we real Hindus, real Muslims or real Sikhs ?..or just superficial surface types fit only to look at others so called faults...:swordfight-kudiyan:

 

[Harry Haller]

better to be an honest thief than a dishonest sikh?

 

[aristotle]

@DograJi,
Manu Smriti as according to you is contradictory of the Vedas. Agreed.....
But you have also called the 'Shambhooka' episode as a corruption. For your kind consideration this story forms part of the 'Valmiki Ramayana'. Are you suggesting then that the Valmiki Ramayana, thought to be the most authentic and earliest (The more popular Ramacharitmanas of course came much later and is clearly a doctored narrative) narration of the life of king Ramachandra, is a corrupted text?

 

[aristotle]

@Harry Haller Ji,
Well, a thief can't be called 'honest' as well, but yes, since Sikhism is a way of life which connects spirituality with one's practical life. A 'Sikh' is literally the one who learns, and we should definitely learn to practice virtues in our daily lives as enshrined in the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

 

[Harry Haller]

Aristotleji,

I disagree a thief may be a thief, but they can be an honest thief, whatever your vices are, you should be on the outside how you are on the inside, if you are a Gursikh on the inside all the better!

 

[aristotle]

@Harry Haller Ji,
Yeah, that's the first step of spiritual cleansing. Accepting your vices, accepting who you are and what you shouldn't be.
Then, spirituality progresses by removing your vices, internal cleansing and recognition of the 'Jyot Saroop'.
But, as they say, you have to learn counting before rocket science. Until, you accept your vices, you can't remove them...
So, thumbs up to your 'honest' thief.

 

[Harry Haller]

errr apologies for being pedantic, but I actually do not think they should be removed, just lassoed and made to run in front of you pulling you along!

 

[aristotle]

@Harry Haller Ji,
It is not about killing your soul. But the point lies in the fact that one should not surrender to his/her weak points, that's what the animals do, and that's why they are called animals.
I love to quote the story of 'Sajjan the Thug'. Sajjan means a nice person, but this person was nice only by name. It was then the work of the Guru started. Guru Nanak, the first master, converted him into Sajjan of deeds from the Sajjan of name. Let us permit the Guru to run through our lives, let us be an instrument of the Guru.