Gurbani Contemplation - Selok Bhagat Kabir Ji

[Tejwant Singh]

Great interpretation by Gyani ji and Pk70 ji.

Allow me to add my 2 cent worth.

The main idea of these saloks are about how one ruins oneself whiledwelling in Me-ism. Kabir ji telling people of that time who led their lives only thinking about themselves and spent their lives without even trying to find connection with Ik Ong Kaar. It was not in their value system.

As mentioned before, most of the english transliterations are incorrect and distort the true meaning of this beautiful Gurbani. Sant Singh Khalsa's is the worst of all.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰ

ਕਬੀਰ ਲੂਟਨਾ ਹੈ ਤ ਲੂਟਿ ਲੈ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਹੈ ਲੂਟਿ ॥
कबीर लूटना है त लूटि लै राम नाम है लूटि ॥
Kabīr lūtnā hai ṯa lūt lai rām nām hai lūt.
Kabeer, if you must rob and plunder, then plunder the plunder of the Lord's Name.

Here Kabir is talking in a tongue and cheek way to the merchants which were Hindus and Muslims who used to charge too much for their merchandise to the needy.

He is saying that if you merchants want to plunder, loot and take advantage of others for this transistory profit that you make and put in your pockets, then "loot" and "plunder" the ONE -IK ONG KAAR-who has everything. This is the only way to get the "true profit".

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਫਿਰਿ

ਫਿਰਿ ਪਾਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਹੁਗੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਾਹਿੰਗੇ ਛੂਟਿ ॥੪੧॥
फिरि पाछै पछुताहुगे प्रान जाहिंगे छूटि ॥४१॥
Fir pācẖẖai pacẖẖuṯāhuge parān jāhinge cẖẖūt. ||41||
Otherwise, in the world hereafter, you will regret and repent, when the breath of life leaves the body. ||41||

The above is the best example of the creditcard and housing crisis the world is going through. Once you have sold your merchandise and then if the debtors can not pay you back then you can not even recuperate your costs. So it will be no good to regret or repent later on because your intention and your business operandi was to loot them. Hence "loot" the INFINITE which will never make your regret of your actions.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰ

ਕਬੀਰ ਐਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਜਨਮਿਓ ਅਪਨੈ ਘਰਿ ਲਾਵੈ ਆਗਿ ॥
कबीर ऐसा कोई न जनमिओ अपनै घरि लावै आगि ॥
Kabīr aisā ko▫ī na janmi▫o apnai gẖar lāvai āg.
Kabeer, there is no one born, who burns his own home,

Using the same metaphor as greedy merchants, Kabir ji is showing them that how their modus operandi for plundering the innocent, the poor and the needy is going to backfire. So whatever thought process you have used to loot the poor, the end result is that you will end up being the only loser when they are not able to pay their debts. When you started this business you never thought that it will come back and haunt you because of your greed. In other words," People do not plan to fail but fail to plan". You never thought that you had to close this business because of the non payments by the debtors. It is like burning your own home that you built by looting the innocent. He elaborates it further in the following salok.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪਾਂਚਉ

ਪਾਂਚਉ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਜਾਰਿ ਕੈ ਰਹੈ ਰਾਮ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗਿ ॥੪੨॥
पांचउ लरिका जारि कै रहै राम लिव लागि ॥४२॥
Pāʼncẖa▫o larikā jār kai rahai rām liv lāg. ||42||
and burning his five sons, remains lovingly attuned to the Lord. ||42||

This is a wonderful poetry and what a great simile! The above salok shows how we cling to Maya and cultivate it as if it were our own family,created,raised, nurtured and educated by us.

You have created,cultivated and nurtured your "5 children" 'Kaam,krodh, lobh,moh, Hankaar'.You can only get rid of them by finding your connection with IK ONG KAAR. Then only through this connection, your "5 children" will eventually die and then you can cremate them as their "last rites" so you are able to get rid of them forever and by doing this they will never come back. Here again the subliminal message can also be derived that in Sikhi once dead, it is sayonara. No reincarnation.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੋ

ਕੋ ਹੈ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਬੇਚਈ ਲਰਿਕੀ ਬੇਚੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
को है लरिका बेचई लरिकी बेचै कोइ ॥
Ko hai larikā becẖ▫ī larikī becẖai ko▫e.
Kabeer, how rare are those who sell their son and sell their daughter

ਸਾਝਾ ਕਰੈ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਬਨਜੁ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੪੩॥
साझा करै कबीर सिउ हरि संगि बनजु करेइ ॥४३॥
Sājẖā karai Kabīr si▫o har sang banaj kare▫i. ||43||
and, entering into partnership with Kabeer, deal with the Lord. ||43||

I am using the above Salok together because it re-emphasises the same thought process which is in the previous ones.

Here Kabir ji is talking about having children and treating them as part of business.

Some "sell" their sons to rake in money from those who have daughters by bringing in dowries and some "sell" their daughters as prostitutes to make money.

These partnerships are all business transcations of Maya to all of them which are transistory and end up being disasterous business transactions because they are nothing but scams.

Bernie Maddoff who looted $50billion comes to mind here.

So, hey merchant of Maya, seek the true partnership, the one Kabir has found and this true partner does not mind being "looted". To the contrary. And this true partner is IK ONG KAAR.

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Great interpretation by Gyani ji and Pk70 ji.

Allow me to add my 2 cent worth.

The main idea of these saloks are about how one ruins oneself whiledwelling in Me-ism. Kabir ji telling people of that time who led their lives only thinking about themselves and spent their lives without even trying to find connection with Ik Ong Kaar. It was not in their value system.

As mentioned before, most of the english transliterations are incorcect and distort the trut meaning of this beautiful Gurbani. Sant Singh Khalsa's is the worst of all.



Here Kabir is talking in a tongue and cheek way to the merchants which were Hindus and Muslims who used to charge too much for their merchandise to the needy.

He is saying that if you merchants want to plunder, loot and take advantage of others for this transistory profit that you make and put in your pockets, then "loot" and "plunder" the ONE -IK ONG KAAR-who has everything. This is the only way to get the "true profit".



The above is the best example of the creditcard and housing crisis the world is going through. Once you have sold your merchandise and then if the debtors can not pay you back then you can not even recuperate your costs. So it will be no good to regret or repent later on because your intention and your business operandi was to loot them. Hence "loot" the INFINITE which will never make your regret of your actions.



Using the same metaphor as greedy merchants, Kabir ji is showing them that how their modus operandi for plundering the innocent, the poor and the needy is going to backfire. So whatever thought process you have used to loot the poor, the end result is that you will end up being the only loser when they are not able to pay their debts. When you started this business you never thought that it will come back and haunt you because of your greed. In other words," People do not plan to fail but fail to plan". You never thought that you had to close this business because of the non payments by the debtors. It is like burning your own home that you built by looting the innocent. He elaborates it further in the following salok.



This is a wonderful poetry and what a great simile! The above salok shows how we cling to Maya and cultivate it as if it were our own family,created,raised, nurtured and educated by us.

You have created,cultivated and nurtured your "5 children" 'Kaam,krodh, lobh,moh, Hankaar'.You can only get rid of them by finding your connection with IK ONG KAAR. Then only through this connection, your "5 children" will eventually die and then you can cremate them as their "last rites" so you are able to get rid of them forever and by doing this they will never come back. Here again the subliminal message can also be derived that in Sikhi once dead, it is sayonara. No reincarnation.



I am using the above Salok together because it re-emphasises the same thought process which is in the previous ones.

Here Kabir ji is talking about having children and treating them as part of business.

Some "sell" their sons to rake in money from those who have daughters by bringing in dowries and some "sell" their daughters as prostitutes to make money.

These partnerships are all business transcations of Maya to all of them which are transistory and end up being disasterous business transactions because they are nothing but scams.

Bernie Maddoff who looted $50billion comes to mind here.

So, hey merchant of Maya, seek the true partnership, the one Kabir has found and this true partner does not mind being "looted". To ther contrary. And this true partner is IK ONG KAAR.

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant ji

In my humble and untutored opinion, you have mentioned important issues. For example, the image of selling sons and daughters is important to the understanding of Kabir's poetry. Because we are reading Bani -- of course there is a spiritual plane of understanding that must be understood for fuller vichaar of the selokas. The abuse of sons and daughters--- these are metaphors for the crass nature that stands in the way of God consciousness and sustains our veil of illusion.

However, in reading Kabir one must also be aware of how his poetry has been magnetic for centuries. Even when he was alive his contemporaries were drawn to him from many different levels of society. Why? One reason is that Kabir used images from the every-day, familiar situations that his listeners knew intimately. Any and all, rich and poor, educated and uneducated, upon hearing his poetry knew what he was talking about. They had close encounters with the scenes that he depicted. Then and now. You have captured this element -- Kabir's intimacy with his listerners across many generations and cultures. He was able to connect with the human condition and this made his imagery so evocative and powerful. Kabir consistently maps the reality of every day life onto greater consciousness. Even today Kabir speaks with that same intimacy.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Tejwant ji

In my humble and untutored opinion, you have mentioned important issues. For example, the image of selling sons and daughters is important to the understanding of Kabir's poetry. Because we are reading Bani -- of course there is a spiritual plane of understanding that must be understood for fuller vichaar of the selokas. The abuse of sons and daughters--- these are metaphors for the crass nature that stands in the way of God consciousness and sustains our veil of illusion.

However, in reading Kabir one must also be aware of how his poetry has been magnetic for centuries. Even when he was alive his contemporaries were drawn to him from many different levels of society. Why? One reason is that Kabir used images from the every-day, familiar situations that his listeners knew intimately. Any and all, rich and poor, educated and uneducated, upon hearing his poetry knew what he was talking about. They had close encounters with the scenes that he depicted. Then and now. You have captured this element -- Kabir's intimacy with his listerners across many generations and cultures. He was able to connect with the human condition and this made his imagery so evocative and powerful. Kabir consistently maps the reality of every day life onto greater consciousness. Even today Kabir speaks with that same intimacy.

Antonia ji,

Guru Fateh.

Well said. The awe factor for me of SGGS is that its reminders act like sharpeners and erasers for the pencils and papers which are US. That's why our Gurus tell us and urge us to study Nitnem daily not just cram through it.

Thanks for you great input. You know when my tea needs a bit of more sugar and you always have the sugarpot handy.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Astroboy]

ਕਬੀਰ ਐਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਜਨਮਿਓ ਅਪਨੈ ਘਰਿ ਲਾਵੈ ਆਗਿ ॥
ਪਾਂਚਉ ਲਰਿਕਾ ਜਾਰਿ ਕੈ ਰਹੈ ਰਾਮ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗਿ ॥੪੨॥

Here's another translation :-
Sri Kabir Ji says rarely (no) such person is born into this world who has touched the fire-like light in his heart (house).
In the fire of Almighty, the 5 sons of passion are burnt, one stays attuned to the Almighty.

 

[Astroboy]

Antonia ji,

Guru Fateh.

Well said. The awe factor for me of SGGS is that its reminders act like sharpeners and erasers for the pencils and papers which are US. That's why our Gurus tell us and urge us to study Nitnem daily not just cram through it.

Thanks for you great input. You know when my tea needs a bit of more sugar and you always have the sugarpot handy.

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Singh Ji,

How timely that you mentioned about sugar, as you will see how it applies in the following seloks.
The translations are NOT reliable enough so please dig into other meanings and discuss:-

ਕਬੀਰ ਇਹ ਚੇਤਾਵਨੀ ਮਤ ਸਹਸਾ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
कबीर इह चेतावनी मत सहसा रहि जाइ ॥
Kabīr ih cẖeṯāvnī maṯ sahsā rėh jā▫e.
Kabeer, let me remind you of this. Do not be skeptical or cynical.

ਪਾਛੈ ਭੋਗ ਜੁ ਭੋਗਵੇ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਗੁੜੁ ਲੈ ਖਾਹਿ ॥੪੪॥
पाछै भोग जु भोगवे तिन को गुड़ु लै खाहि ॥४४॥
Pācẖẖai bẖog jo bẖogve ṯin ko guṛ lai kẖāhi. ||44||
Those pleasures which you enjoyed so much in the past - now you must eat their fruits. ||44||

ਕਬੀਰ ਮੈ ਜਾਨਿਓ ਪੜਿਬੋ ਭਲੋ ਪੜਿਬੇ ਸਿਉ ਭਲ ਜੋਗੁ ॥
कबीर मै जानिओ पड़िबो भलो पड़िबे सिउ भल जोगु ॥
Kabīr mai jāni▫o paṛibo bẖalo paṛibe si▫o bẖal jog.
Kabeer, at first, I thought learning was good; then I thought Yoga was better.

ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਛਾਡਉ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਭਾਵੈ ਨਿੰਦਉ ਲੋਗੁ ॥੪੫॥
भगति न छाडउ राम की भावै निंदउ लोगु ॥४५॥
Bẖagaṯ na cẖẖāda▫o rām kī bẖāvai ninḏa▫o log. ||45||
I shall never abandon devotional worship of the Lord, even though people may slander me. ||45||

ਕਬੀਰ ਲੋਗੁ ਕਿ ਨਿੰਦੈ ਬਪੁੜਾ ਜਿਹ ਮਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥
कबीर लोगु कि निंदै बपुड़ा जिह मनि नाही गिआनु ॥
Kabīr log kė ninḏai bapuṛā jih man nāhī gi▫ān.
Kabeer, how can the wretched people slander me? They have no wisdom or intelligence.

ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਅਵਰ ਤਜੇ ਸਭ ਕਾਮ ॥੪੬॥
राम कबीरा रवि रहे अवर तजे सभ काम ॥४६॥
Rām kabīrā rav rahe avar ṯaje sabẖ kām. ||46||
Kabeer continues to dwell upon the Lord's Name; I have abandoned all other affairs. ||46||

ਕਬੀਰ ਪਰਦੇਸੀ ਕੈ ਘਾਘਰੈ ਚਹੁ ਦਿਸਿ ਲਾਗੀ ਆਗਿ ॥
कबीर परदेसी कै घाघरै चहु दिसि लागी आगि ॥
Kabīr parḏesī kai gẖāgẖrai cẖahu ḏis lāgī āg.
Kabeer, the robe of the stranger-soul has caught fire on all four sides.

ਖਿੰਥਾ ਜਲਿ ਕੋਇਲਾ ਭਈ ਤਾਗੇ ਆਂਚ ਨ ਲਾਗ ॥੪੭॥
खिंथा जलि कोइला भई तागे आंच न लाग ॥४७॥
Kẖinthā jal ko▫ilā bẖa▫ī ṯāge āʼncẖ na lāg. ||47||
The cloth of the body has been burnt and reduced to charcoal, but the fire did not touch the thread of the soul. ||47||

ਕਬੀਰ ਖਿੰਥਾ ਜਲਿ ਕੋਇਲਾ ਭਈ ਖਾਪਰੁ ਫੂਟ ਮਫੂਟ ॥
कबीर खिंथा जलि कोइला भई खापरु फूट मफूट ॥
Kabīr kẖinthā jal ko▫ilā bẖa▫ī kẖāpar fūt mafūt.
Kabeer, the cloth has been burnt and reduced to charcoal, and the begging bowl is shattered into pieces.

ਜੋਗੀ ਬਪੁੜਾ ਖੇਲਿਓ ਆਸਨਿ ਰਹੀ ਬਿਭੂਤਿ ॥੪੮॥
जोगी बपुड़ा खेलिओ आसनि रही बिभूति ॥४८॥
Jogī bapuṛā kẖeli▫o āsan rahī bibẖūṯ. ||48||
The poor Yogi has played out his game; only ashes remain on his seat. ||48||

 

[Astroboy]

ਕਬੀਰ ਇਹ ਚੇਤਾਵਨੀ ਮਤ ਸਹਸਾ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
Kabīr ih cẖeṯāvnī maṯ sahsā rėh jā▫e.
Kabeer, let me remind you of this. Do not be skeptical or cynical.

ਪਾਛੈ ਭੋਗ ਜੁ ਭੋਗਵੇ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਗੁੜੁ ਲੈ ਖਾਹਿ ॥੪੪॥
Pācẖẖai bẖog jo bẖogve ṯin ko guṛ lai kẖāhi. ||44||
Previous deed done, you have already exchanged it for the sugar commodity.
Meaning without the Naam, your past good deeds are of no use as they didn't lead you to your goal.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

ਕਬੀਰ ਇਹ ਚੇਤਾਵਨੀ ਮਤ ਸਹਸਾ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
Kabīr ih cẖeṯāvnī maṯ sahsā rėh jā▫e.
Kabeer, let me remind you of this. Do not be skeptical or cynical.

ਪਾਛੈ ਭੋਗ ਜੁ ਭੋਗਵੇ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਗੁੜੁ ਲੈ ਖਾਹਿ ॥੪੪॥
Pācẖẖai bẖog jo bẖogve ṯin ko guṛ lai kẖāhi. ||44||
Previous deed done, you have already exchanged it for the sugar commodity.
Meaning without the Naam, your past good deeds are of no use as they didn't lead you to your goal.

..

Naam Japp Ji,
Gurfateh.

The "previous deeds" are worth about as much as....... the "gurr" that is given away free by the shopkeeper.
When we buy vegetables from the vendor.....at the end of the transaction...he will usually ...throw in for free a few hareh gabdeh, dhania, or chillies etc.
Similarly i saw "gurr" being given away FREE at the counters of Restaurants etc where the customer pays the bill..... and some sugar stuff/sweets/gurr was also thrown in FREE by the shopkeepers when packing the sundries...

Now to Kabir Ji.... Bhagat Ji is comparing the TWO.... the "original goodies we actually BOUGHT/Paid for.....with the "FREE goodie given away by the clever shopkeeper !!
Kabir Ji says ALL the Bhogs, the actions we did all our LIFE are worth just the "FREE GURR"...the ACTUAL MERCHANDISE we should be interested in is NAAM JAPP !!!

 

[pk70]

..

Naam Japp Ji,
Gurfateh.

The "previous deeds" are worth about as much as....... the "gurr" that is given away free by the shopkeeper.
When we buy vegetables from the vendor.....at the end of the transaction...he will usually ...throw in for free a few hareh gabdeh, dhania, or chillies etc.
Similarly i saw "gurr" being given away FREE at the counters of Restaurants etc where the customer pays the bill..... and some sugar stuff/sweets/gurr was also thrown in FREE by the shopkeepers when packing the sundries...

Now to Kabir Ji.... Bhagat Ji is comparing the TWO.... the "original goodies we actually BOUGHT/Paid for.....with the "FREE goodie given away by the clever shopkeeper !!
Kabir Ji says ALL the Bhogs, the actions we did all our LIFE are worth just the "FREE GURR"...the ACTUAL MERCHANDISE we should be interested in is NAAM JAPP !!!

Absolutely true, all other stuff than Naam Simran is made insignificant, use of Gur is hint towards" loonga" a free thing which is not much in quantity and quality. Thanks Gyani jio

 

[Astroboy]

ਕਬੀਰ ਮੈ ਜਾਨਿਓ ਪੜਿਬੋ ਭਲੋ ਪੜਿਬੇ ਸਿਉ ਭਲ ਜੋਗੁ ॥
कबीर मै जानिओ पड़िबो भलो पड़िबे सिउ भल जोगु ॥
Kabīr mai jāni▫o paṛibo bẖalo paṛibe si▫o bẖal jog.
Kabeer, at first, I thought learning was good; then I thought Yoga was better.

ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਛਾਡਉ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਭਾਵੈ ਨਿੰਦਉ ਲੋਗੁ ॥੪੫॥
भगति न छाडउ राम की भावै निंदउ लोगु ॥४५॥
Bẖagaṯ na cẖẖāda▫o rām kī bẖāvai ninḏa▫o log. ||45||
I shall never abandon devotional worship of the Lord, even though people may slander me. ||45||

ਕਬੀਰ ਲੋਗੁ ਕਿ ਨਿੰਦੈ ਬਪੁੜਾ ਜਿਹ ਮਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥
कबीर लोगु कि निंदै बपुड़ा जिह मनि नाही गिआनु ॥
Kabīr log kė ninḏai bapuṛā jih man nāhī gi▫ān.
Kabeer, how can the wretched people slander me? They have no wisdom or intelligence.

ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਅਵਰ ਤਜੇ ਸਭ ਕਾਮ ॥੪੬॥
राम कबीरा रवि रहे अवर तजे सभ काम ॥४६॥
Rām kabīrā rav rahe avar ṯaje sabẖ kām. ||46||
Kabeer continues to dwell upon the Lord's Name; I have abandoned all other affairs. ||46||

These two seloks talk about slander.
What exactly is the point being made in here ?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

ਕਬੀਰ ਇਹ ਚੇਤਾਵਨੀ ਮਤ ਸਹਸਾ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
Kabīr ih cẖeṯāvnī maṯ sahsā rėh jā▫e.
Kabeer, let me remind you of this. Do not be skeptical or cynical.

ਪਾਛੈ ਭੋਗ ਜੁ ਭੋਗਵੇ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਗੁੜੁ ਲੈ ਖਾਹਿ ॥੪੪॥
Pācẖẖai bẖog jo bẖogve ṯin ko guṛ lai kẖāhi. ||44||
Previous deed done, you have already exchanged it for the sugar commodity.
Meaning without the Naam, your past good deeds are of no use as they didn't lead you to your goal.

Namjap ji,

Guru Fateh.


Here Kabir ji warns people who make their duties and responsibities as accomplishments and start patting their backs.

Your past deeds are not "The saving bonds" for the furture that you can cash in. They were the "payments to the credit cards" that you had already used before for your goodies.

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

ਕਬੀਰ ਮੈ ਜਾਨਿਓ ਪੜਿਬੋ ਭਲੋ ਪੜਿਬੇ ਸਿਉ ਭਲ ਜੋਗੁ ॥
कबीर मै जानिओ पड़िबो भलो पड़िबे सिउ भल जोगु ॥
Kabīr mai jāni▫o paṛibo bẖalo paṛibe si▫o bẖal jog.
Kabeer, at first, I thought learning was good; then I thought Yoga was better.

ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਛਾਡਉ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਭਾਵੈ ਨਿੰਦਉ ਲੋਗੁ ॥੪੫॥
भगति न छाडउ राम की भावै निंदउ लोगु ॥४५॥
Bẖagaṯ na cẖẖāda▫o rām kī bẖāvai ninḏa▫o log. ||45||
I shall never abandon devotional worship of the Lord, even though people may slander me. ||45||

ਕਬੀਰ ਲੋਗੁ ਕਿ ਨਿੰਦੈ ਬਪੁੜਾ ਜਿਹ ਮਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥
कबीर लोगु कि निंदै बपुड़ा जिह मनि नाही गिआनु ॥
Kabīr log kė ninḏai bapuṛā jih man nāhī gi▫ān.
Kabeer, how can the wretched people slander me? They have no wisdom or intelligence.

ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਅਵਰ ਤਜੇ ਸਭ ਕਾਮ ॥੪੬॥
राम कबीरा रवि रहे अवर तजे सभ काम ॥४६॥
Rām kabīrā rav rahe avar ṯaje sabẖ kām. ||46||
Kabeer continues to dwell upon the Lord's Name; I have abandoned all other affairs. ||46||

These two seloks talk about slander.
What exactly is the point being made in here ?

Kabir ji was speaking about his own experience. Like Guru Nanak he found no truth in the dogmatism of the Hindu Brahmin nor in the rigid practice of Islam. Instead he tried, again like Guru Nanak, to find a common truth. Ultimately, close to age 60 he was brought before officials and denounced as a heretic. We should remember however that there is very little by way of historical documentation regarding Kabir's life and much legend. Here is the account that is often given of the slander against him.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Although Kabir labored to bring the often clashing religious cultures of Islam and Hinduism together, he was equally disdainful of professional piety in any form. This earned him the hatred and persecution of the religious authorities in Varanasi. Nearing age 60, he was denounced before the king but, because of his Muslim birth, he was spared execution and, instead, banished from the region.[/FONT] Kabir : Poems and Biography

In my opinion, Kabir is telling us that those who are morally and intellectually corrupt are incapable of slandering one whose depth of devotion is only to the Naam.

 

[Astroboy]

In my opinion, Kabir is telling us that those who are morally and intellectually corrupt are incapable of slandering one whose depth of devotion is only to the Naam.

Slandering itself belongs to those who do not know true devotion.

Slandering others is putting the filth of others into your own mouth.
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

 

[Astroboy]

ਕਬੀਰ ਪਰਦੇਸੀ ਕੈ ਘਾਘਰੈ ਚਹੁ ਦਿਸਿ ਲਾਗੀ ਆਗਿ ॥
कबीर परदेसी कै घाघरै चहु दिसि लागी आगि ॥
Kabīr parḏesī kai gẖāgẖrai cẖahu ḏis lāgī āg.
Kabeer, the robe of the stranger-soul has caught fire on all four sides.

ਖਿੰਥਾ ਜਲਿ ਕੋਇਲਾ ਭਈ ਤਾਗੇ ਆਂਚ ਨ ਲਾਗ ॥੪੭॥
खिंथा जलि कोइला भई तागे आंच न लाग ॥४७॥
Kẖinthā jal ko▫ilā bẖa▫ī ṯāge āʼncẖ na lāg. ||47||
The cloth of the body has been burnt and reduced to charcoal, but the fire did not touch the thread of the soul. ||47||

ਕਬੀਰ ਖਿੰਥਾ ਜਲਿ ਕੋਇਲਾ ਭਈ ਖਾਪਰੁ ਫੂਟ ਮਫੂਟ ॥
कबीर खिंथा जलि कोइला भई खापरु फूट मफूट ॥
Kabīr kẖinthā jal ko▫ilā bẖa▫ī kẖāpar fūt mafūt.
Kabeer, the cloth has been burnt and reduced to charcoal, and the begging bowl is shattered into pieces.

ਜੋਗੀ ਬਪੁੜਾ ਖੇਲਿਓ ਆਸਨਿ ਰਹੀ ਬਿਭੂਤਿ ॥੪੮॥
जोगी बपुड़ा खेलिओ आसनि रही बिभूति ॥४८॥
Jogī bapuṛā kẖeli▫o āsan rahī bibẖūṯ. ||48||
The poor Yogi has played out his game; only ashes remain on his seat. ||48||

 

[spnadmin]

ਕਬੀਰ ਪਰਦੇਸੀ ਕੈ ਘਾਘਰੈ ਚਹੁ ਦਿਸਿ ਲਾਗੀ ਆਗਿ ॥
कबीर परदेसी कै घाघरै चहु दिसि लागी आगि ॥
Kabīr parḏesī kai gẖāgẖrai cẖahu ḏis lāgī āg.
Kabeer, the robe of the stranger-soul has caught fire on all four sides.

ਖਿੰਥਾ ਜਲਿ ਕੋਇਲਾ ਭਈ ਤਾਗੇ ਆਂਚ ਨ ਲਾਗ ॥੪੭॥
खिंथा जलि कोइला भई तागे आंच न लाग ॥४७॥
Kẖinthā jal ko▫ilā bẖa▫ī ṯāge āʼncẖ na lāg. ||47||
The cloth of the body has been burnt and reduced to charcoal, but the fire did not touch the thread of the soul. ||47||

ਕਬੀਰ ਖਿੰਥਾ ਜਲਿ ਕੋਇਲਾ ਭਈ ਖਾਪਰੁ ਫੂਟ ਮਫੂਟ ॥
कबीर खिंथा जलि कोइला भई खापरु फूट मफूट ॥
Kabīr kẖinthā jal ko▫ilā bẖa▫ī kẖāpar fūt mafūt.
Kabeer, the cloth has been burnt and reduced to charcoal, and the begging bowl is shattered into pieces.

ਜੋਗੀ ਬਪੁੜਾ ਖੇਲਿਓ ਆਸਨਿ ਰਹੀ ਬਿਭੂਤਿ ॥੪੮॥
जोगी बपुड़ा खेलिओ आसनि रही बिभूति ॥४८॥
Jogī bapuṛā kẖeli▫o āsan rahī bibẖūṯ. ||48||
The poor Yogi has played out his game; only ashes remain on his seat. ||48||

"The robe of the stranger-soul:" The robe is the flesh, muscle and bone -- this can also mean the false ego or false self which entangles us in avidya, or ignorance of the true self. As long as we persist in attachment to products of our own thinking, our soul remains a stranger. We are estranged from our true identity. But when the robe is burnt the soul is untouched, unharmed. The soul is immortal, durable and pure. The soul can join with What is Great (Al Kabir).

There is a repeated metaphor of a thread that weaves through the soul, joins the soul to What is Great (making a jug with something better than the pretentiousness of our false self) because "the fire did not touch the thread of the soul."

The begging bowl is the sign of the humility of the Yogi. But Kabir is telling us that this begging bowl describes the pretense and self-delusion of the Yogi. The Yogi's identity or false self is all tied up in the image of poverty, humility and renunciation. But to what end? The Yogi will also die, leaving a pile of ashes where he sits. And what seat is that? The seat from which the sadhus would preach to others, even while they were entangled in their own avidya and delusions. The yogi dies and all of his samskara (mental formations, habits, and experiences) attach to him regardless. There is a better way.

Some notes: George Wescott, a fellow of Allahabad University, relates in 1907 that Kabir himself believed that meditation of the Naam was the only path to release from the cycle of life and death. At the time of his arrest at the age of 60 the Qazi (Sheik Taqqi) accused him of claiming to have Divine powers. Brahmins accused him of defying sacred traditions. When the emperor Jodhan banished Kabir rather than having him executed for heresy, the same Brahmins may have tried to burn him alive in a hut (the robe of the stranger-soul has caught fire on all four sides). The yogi he speaks of may have been Gorath Nath who was the founder of the Nath yogi sect (The poor Yogi has played out his game).

 

[Tejwant Singh]

ਕਬੀਰ ਮੈ ਜਾਨਿਓ ਪੜਿਬੋ ਭਲੋ ਪੜਿਬੇ ਸਿਉ ਭਲ ਜੋਗੁ ॥
कबीर मै जानिओ पड़िबो भलो पड़िबे सिउ भल जोगु ॥
Kabīr mai jāni▫o paṛibo bẖalo paṛibe si▫o bẖal jog.
Kabeer, at first, I thought learning was good; then I thought Yoga was better.

Namjap ji


Guru Fateh.

Once again the transliteration is an insult to this poetry as we have discussed before. The reason I like to repeat this as often as possible is so that the respective readers can delve deeper into Gurbani through other ways. Those who know Punjabi can check Prof. Sahib Singh's tikka on the internet.

In these saloks, in my opinion Kabir ji is talking about the difference between knowledge and wisdom.

In our Indian culture we have tons of people who tell us what we should do. They do not do practice the same but it makes them feel superior just to preach Manmat, perhaps. It is the ego stroking thing which is deeply rooted in the Indian culture. In other words there are more preachers than practitioners. Or putting it into the Native American term- More Chiefs than the Indians.

Kabir ji says that in the beginning I thought cramming the books will be a good thing to be attuned with IK Ong Kaar. Guru Nanak tells us the same in Japji "Sehan syanapah lakh hoi, Ik nah chalei naal" And we as humans claim that knowledge makes us clever which is a great thing to impress others but little do we know that Gurbani is the catalyst that converts knowledge into wisdom so we can really find the connection. It is no good having a halogen lamp in the hand without any connection to the power outlet.

We all know that learning ( as the transliteration would indicate) is not bad at all, to the contrary hence we are called Sikhs- Students- Learners.

Then someone preached to do yoga by turning your body into a pretzel which will make you attuned with Ik Ong Kaar.

ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਛਾਡਉ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਭਾਵੈ ਨਿੰਦਉ ਲੋਗੁ ॥੪੫॥
भगति न छाडउ राम की भावै निंदउ लोगु ॥४५॥
Bẖagaṯ na cẖẖāda▫o rām kī bẖāvai ninḏa▫o log. ||45||
I shall never abandon devotional worship of the Lord, even
though people may slander me. ||45||

In the above Kabir ji shows us that he has found the true answer to be attuned with Ik Ong Kaar through Sadh sangat which can only lead to wisdom and the connection with THE ONE.

Allow me to elaborate this a bit further. People who tell us what to do- the preachers of Maya- get easily offended if things are not done in their way. When we ignore them, at times they become abusive and start slandering . This is a deep rooted flaw in the Indian culture which still mars us even today.

Connection with Ik Ong kaar is all about love which motivates us, inspires us and becomes the spring board for us to soar to the horizons of goodness with the help of Gurmat winds.

Here Kabir ji is saying and putting it bluntly," I give a damn about those who want me to follow them for their own gain no matter how much they talk ill about me because I have found the real connection".

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾ

ਕਬੀਰ ਲੋਗੁ ਕਿ ਨਿੰਦੈ ਬਪੁੜਾ ਜਿਹ ਮਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾ
कबीर लोगु कि निंदै बपुड़ा जिह मनि नाही गिआनु ॥
Kabīr log kė ninḏai bapuṛā jih man nāhī gi▫ān.
Kabeer, how can the wretched people slander me? They have no wisdom or intelligence.
ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਅਵਰ ਤਜੇ ਸਭ ਕਾਮ ॥੪੬॥http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾ
राम कबीरा रवि रहे अवर तजे सभ काम ॥४६॥
Rām kabīrā rav rahe avar ṯaje sabẖ kām. ||46||
Kabeer continues to dwell upon the Lord's Name; I have abandoned all other affairs. ||46||
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾ

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰਾhttp://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਬੀਰ

In the above Kabir ji shows the result of having found the connection with Ik Ong Kaar and how he shows his inspiration, motivation and self confidence, the weapons he garnered through the connection to combat against the arrows lanced by those with knowledge sans wisdom.

One should not forget to realise that these kind of slanderers also dwell within- kaam,krodh,lobh,moh hankaar.

The beauty about the poetic Gurbani is that it is written in such a way where we can introspect- talk to ourselves, ask questions and then find the answers.

Gurbani breeds introspection which breeds awarness- realisation- understanding and last but not the least acceptance. Modern psychology calls this the leap towards freedom and we all know how new the modern psychology is.

So in the above Salok Kabir ji has shown the result of the connection. He has shown us that only by finding the connection with Ik Ong kaar, one can shield oneself from the negative forces which may be within or around us.

So Namjap ji, this is the way I see these 2 Saloks, it is not about the slanderers but about us and how we can rise above the negative forces.

Others may see them differently which I would love them to share with us.

Input from all would be highly appreciated.

Thanks & Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

ਕਬੀਰ ਮੈ ਜਾਨਿਓ ਪੜਿਬੋ ਭਲੋ ਪੜਿਬੇ ਸਿਉ ਭਲ ਜੋਗੁ ॥
कबीर मै जानिओ पड़िबो भलो पड़िबे सिउ भल जोगु ॥
Kabīr mai jāni▫o paṛibo bẖalo paṛibe si▫o bẖal jog.
Kabeer, at first, I thought learning was good; then I thought Yoga was better.

ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਛਾਡਉ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਭਾਵੈ ਨਿੰਦਉ ਲੋਗੁ ॥੪੫॥
भगति न छाडउ राम की भावै निंदउ लोगु ॥४५॥
Bẖagaṯ na cẖẖāda▫o rām kī bẖāvai ninḏa▫o log. ||45||
I shall never abandon devotional worship of the Lord, even though people may slander me. ||45||

ਕਬੀਰ ਲੋਗੁ ਕਿ ਨਿੰਦੈ ਬਪੁੜਾ ਜਿਹ ਮਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥
कबीर लोगु कि निंदै बपुड़ा जिह मनि नाही गिआनु ॥
Kabīr log kė ninḏai bapuṛā jih man nāhī gi▫ān.
Kabeer, how can the wretched people slander me? They have no wisdom or intelligence.

ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਅਵਰ ਤਜੇ ਸਭ ਕਾਮ ॥੪੬॥
राम कबीरा रवि रहे अवर तजे सभ काम ॥४६॥
Rām kabīrā rav rahe avar ṯaje sabẖ kām. ||46||
Kabeer continues to dwell upon the Lord's Name; I have abandoned all other affairs. ||46||

These two seloks talk about slander.
What exactly is the point being made in here ?

"The robe of the stranger-soul:" The robe is the flesh, muscle and bone -- this can also mean the false ego or false self which entangles us in avidya, or ignorance of the true self. As long as we persist in attachment to products of our own thinking, our soul remains a stranger. We are estranged from our true identity. But when the robe is burnt the soul is untouched, unharmed. The soul is immortal, durable and pure. The soul can join with What is Great (Al Kabir).

There is a repeated metaphor of a thread that weaves through the soul, joins the soul to What is Great (making a jug with something better than the pretentiousness of our false self) because "the fire did not touch the thread of the soul."

The begging bowl is the sign of the humility of the Yogi. But Kabir is telling us that this begging bowl describes the pretense and self-delusion of the Yogi. The Yogi's identity or false self is all tied up in the image of poverty, humility and renunciation. But to what end? The Yogi will also die, leaving a pile of ashes where he sits. And what seat is that? The seat from which the sadhus would preach to others, even while they were entangled in their own avidya and delusions. The yogi dies and all of his samskara (mental formations, habits, and experiences) attach to him regardless. There is a better way.

Some notes: George Wescott, a fellow of Allahabad University, relates in 1907 that Kabir himself believed that meditation of the Naam was the only path to release from the cycle of life and death. At the time of his arrest at the age of 60 the Qazi (Sheik Taqqi) accused him of claiming to have Divine powers. Brahmins accused him of defying sacred traditions. When the emperor Jodhan banished Kabir rather than having him executed for heresy, the same Brahmins may have tried to burn him alive in a hut (the robe of the stranger-soul has caught fire on all four sides). The yogi he speaks of may have been Gorath Nath who was the founder of the Nath yogi sect (The poor Yogi has played out his game).

Antonia ji,

Guru Fateh.

You have put it very beautifully. You have captured the metaphors perfectly and created a Gurmat Phoenix out of the ashes.

Thank you for sharing your insights from the intellect of your heart.

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Tejwant ji

The conversation is good, even exciting as we find ways to weave together our reactions to these salokas. You are right when you say -- I think I have this right -- that first the bhagat speaks to something within us and that will trigger our reflection. Within we tie the shabad to our inner experience. With that we see how the Guru works his intelligence into lives and we become a sangat. Thank you.

 

[pk70]

"The robe of the stranger-soul:" The robe is the flesh, muscle and bone -- this can also mean the false ego or false self which entangles us in avidya, or ignorance of the true self. As long as we persist in attachment to products of our own thinking, our soul remains a stranger. We are estranged from our true identity. But when the robe is burnt the soul is untouched, unharmed. The soul is immortal, durable and pure. The soul can join with What is Great (Al Kabir).

There is a repeated metaphor of a thread that weaves through the soul, joins the soul to What is Great (making a jug with something better than the pretentiousness of our false self) because "the fire did not touch the thread of the soul."

The begging bowl is the sign of the humility of the Yogi. But Kabir is telling us that this begging bowl describes the pretense and self-delusion of the Yogi. The Yogi's identity or false self is all tied up in the image of poverty, humility and renunciation. But to what end? The Yogi will also die, leaving a pile of ashes where he sits. And what seat is that? The seat from which the sadhus would preach to others, even while they were entangled in their own avidya and delusions. The yogi dies and all of his samskara (mental formations, habits, and experiences) attach to him regardless. There is a better way.

Some notes: George Wescott, a fellow of Allahabad University, relates in 1907 that Kabir himself believed that meditation of the Naam was the only path to release from the cycle of life and death. At the time of his arrest at the age of 60 the Qazi (Sheik Taqqi) accused him of claiming to have Divine powers. Brahmins accused him of defying sacred traditions. When the emperor Jodhan banished Kabir rather than having him executed for heresy, the same Brahmins may have tried to burn him alive in a hut (the robe of the stranger-soul has caught fire on all four sides). The yogi he speaks of may have been Gorath Nath who was the founder of the Nath yogi sect (The poor Yogi has played out his game).

Respected aad Bhain jio

Doubtlessly you have expressed the idea of Kabir ji that went beyond the words’ limitations.It is very good insight. Going to comprehend words all metaphors and their application is not that easy. Thanks
These slokas are wrapped in metaphors; many fail to figure out actually what he is meant to say. No interpreter could satisfy me to day date. My concern is if he only talks about the body and the soul or he also intends to address a Yogi as well to apply his idea pursued in the first sloka? Both Slokas are very much centered at the body, its acts forced to do by the mind, their reactions and the limited life span that ends eventually.
What is this fire? It must be the fire ignited by five primal forces, these are the ones that force the mind to run to all directions, this act of the mind gets a name by the enlightened one, that is “ pardesi”. Pardesi is quite often used in Sree Guru Granth Sahib for a mind who is out in pursuit of Maya and its lures than staying within to realize the Creator; . Some time it’s also interpreted as a guest on this earth for limited time.

Fire is on the body of those who are gone astray; this fire keeps consuming the body but the soul (thread=soul that keeps body alive) actually departs at the end leaving behind the body that suffered just because of its command. Here Kabir ji sets a plat form for the Yogi who is not aware of it as being lost in his own ego.
In the next Sloka the word” kheleo” is important; it indicates the end of life span given to Yogi and what he did to it. All things dear to the Yogi , couldn’t be of any use, in the end, the place where he preached his mission ended in worthlessness(Ash) because whom he preached couldn’t unite with the Lord. So what is the whole point? Living while under the influence of primal forces, search for the Creator ends up futile and life is wasted. Its not even inspirational for others to unite with Him.
So what will happen to those who have done efforts to over come primal forces to stay within to realize the Lord (and eventually have)? Their bodies will not suffer and the mind that causes to execute the acts that bring fire of miseries will be actually stilled to realize Him, their Teachings will be eternal to inspire millions to tread on right path in the future.
My humble views with a statement that due to use of a lot of metaphors in these Solokas, we prone to mistakes while interpreting them, forgive me for that, and I am not posting my views here in any kind of disagreement with your beautiful expression.

 

[spnadmin]

pk70 ji

Your vichaar is extremely valuable because it adds another layer. The layer where evil and purity collide. It helps fill in the total understanding of the salokas.

Here is why I am confident about the first paragraph in my response. Kabir believed that the body was insignificant, almost nothing, in comparison to the beauty of the soul. He saw the soul as pure and immortal, complete as it is. The great tragedy or catastrophe of human life perhaps was to ignore the longing of the soul for jug or union with Who is Great! The life of a human has one purpose for Kabir, and that is to enshrine the Naam, which is Sat, it is whole and pure.

That is how I get to my sense of the underlying meaning of the first saloka, and one that follows. In the Kabirpanthi both Hindus and Muslims can be found. In the Kabirpanthi one can be cremated or buried after death. The body is so unimportant, that its means of disposal are also unimportant. Guruji says, Enshrine the Naam within your heart. This is also Kabir's message. Everything else is samskara, pretentiousness.

I read the book by Wescott (actually the first chapter only) after I wrote my response. Then I was comfortable with my response. I am estranged from my soul by delusions of mind. Even the Yogi who believes in his 4 paths, or 8 paths, or however many paths, is preaching from his cot in a state of delusion. There is only one path -- there is only one yoga -- that is weaving the Sat Who is Great into each and every heart.

 

[pk70]

aad Bhsin jio
I wish if all Sikhs keep this vital and dominating idea of Gurmat in mind while figuring out application of Gurbani ! I am confident hundred percent that no one can then wrap us in small deras or groups Thanks again