prakash s. bagga ji, Just recently you posted as follows:
An inportant aspect is that all such words from different languages have been
used in a PATTERN OF GRAMMAR which is of Sanskrit Language.
This pattern is vital for true understanding of the messages from Gurbanee
irrespective of the language of the words.
Prakash.S.Bagga
At an early point in this thread you also said,
It is important to understand How this concept of Sanskrit Grammar Pattern is applicable in Gurbanee.
In actual Sanskrit Language the the word NOUN has different form for SINGULAR(EK VACHAN),SINGULAR(DWIVACHAN) and PLURAL
Whereas in Gurbanee the form of the NOUN word is SAME but its classification as SINGULAR(EK VACHAN),SINGULAR(DWIVACHAN) and PLURAL has been indicated thru
Long Matras of the Vowels A ,E,I,O,and U.
Out of these long matras if we consider the application of matra of Vowel U we find that
SINGULAR word with SIngle Number is with a matra of Aukad that is a Single line under its last letter
SINGULAR word with Dual Number is with a matra of Dulaikad that is two lines under its last letter and
PLURAL with many numbers is the word without any matra.
So we can see that in Gurbanee Noun words are as per pattern of Sanskrit grammar...
How this pattern of grammar in Gurbanee affects the meanings and understanding of Gurbanee is equally important to know.
You are right when you say that Punjabi makes no grammatical distinction between Dual and Plural. However, you have yet to show us how the use of matras changes “meanings and understandings,” specifically for the word "guru." You said
SINGULAR word with Dual Number is with a matra of Dulaikad that is two lines under its last letter.
This does not hold up when I looked a number of tuks.
I spent time examining “guru” in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. More than 1400 examples do not support the claims you have been making in this thread and other threads in the forum about the use of matras for “guru.”
It is hard to see any unique meanings we can get from grammatical changes in the form of “guru” in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. All that changes for the word "guru" is a change in the case. Case tells you whether "guru" is the subject or object of the verb, whether one is calling out to the Guru, or whether "guru" is used with a preposition. In any language with noun declensions we see this. As far as I can tell, changes in matra for "guru" in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, say nothing about the dual or plural.
Sanskrit and another handful of existing languages do make room for the Dual and the Plural. When they do, the rules for using the dual are specific. Most of the time the dual is used when 2 elements, a pair of persons or things, are referred to. What “two-ness” of gurus has been described or referenced in Gurbani? I honestly do not get your point. When does Gurbani refer to a pair of Gurus?
Next: Here is the Sanskirt declension of “guru.” The word is of neuter gender. Below we see the Singular, Dual and Plural for all grammatical cases.
Neuter Singular Dual Plural
Nominative Guruṇī gurūṇi
Vocative Guruṇī gurūṇi
Accusative Guruṇī gurūṇi
Instrumental guruṇā gurubhyām gurubhiḥ
Dative guruṇe gurubhyām gurubhyaḥ
Ablative guruṇaḥ gurubhyām gurubhyaḥ
Genitive guruṇaḥ guruṇoḥ gurūṇām
Locative guruṇi guruṇoḥ guruṣu
This is the “Sanskrit grammar pattern" for "guru" How should we connect it to the use of "guru" in Sri Guru Granth Sahib “ per pattern of Sanskrit grammar?” What "messages" are changed?
Also, it would be very kind if someone (other than me) were to post the declension of “guru” in all grammatical cases for both singular and plural for Punjabi so we could see for ourselves whether the Sanskrit grammar pattern argument is relevant. For example from Ang 1400 through 1402, ਗੁਰ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੁ are used many times: in the grammatical cases of nominative/subject of verb, genitive/possessive, accusative/object of verb, vocative/calling out and ablative/with a preposition, but ਗੁਰ was never plural. Never an aukad was used to show a dual or plural of gurus.
ffice
