Grammer / Vyakarn Gurbani Vyakaran (Viyakaran, Vayakaran, Viakaran) - Punjabi Grammar

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Panjabi in Gurtbani was Used mostly by First, Second, and the third Guru ji. The Extent of Hindi Begins to increase onward and the Bani of ninth Guruji Almost entirely is in Hindi. the Language of Dasam Granth except for Zafarnama and Chandi di var is in Braj Bhasha.

By declaring over the rooftops that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is in Panjabi we have alienated Hindus from Panjabi.

Really ?? Do Hindus fall in love/get alienated simply by looking at the langauge ? The SINDHIS didnt get "alienated"..at all..not the least bit..they went ahead and PRINTED SGGS/GUTKAS etc in SINDHI LANGUAGE....many Sindhis i know memorised the entire SGGS and do sehaj paath akhand paaths all the time..the SINDHIS used to give Dowry in the form of a GUTKA of Nitnem written in SINDHI. The Famous Lawyer Raam jethmelani who has declared the Ram Chander as Bad Husband is one such SINDHI who has immense faith in the real Raam in SGGS...ADVANI the BJP President has been sued by his daughter in Law as one who THREW OUT HINDU IDOLS form his house....

There are actually SGGS copies availabe in HINDI DEVNAGREE SCRIPT !! are Hindus still alienated by that too...because the SCRIPT/Language doesn't CHANGE the MESSAGE - no idols, no devis, no devtas, no karva chauths, no rakhrrees, no holies, no diwlais, no fasts, no pilgrimages, no teeraths, almost EVERYTHING a HINDU has to perform Ritually is CONDEMNED by SGGS...and it wont change by changing it to English Malay or Arabic ?? The Goras in WEST read the Same MESSAGE in the English scripted SGGS !!

So we are barking up the wrong tree IF we say Hindus get alienated because of Punjabi....and Hindus will flock in the MILLIONS to become SIKHS of SGGS if we change the SCRIPT to DEVNAGREE ?? a pipe dream because the MESSAGE cant change..and Hindus cant change their habits..
Guru nanak ji throwing water to the WEST at KUMBH MELA Hardwaar...spoke verbally to the Millions of Hindus throwing water to the EAST- SUN ancestors...they didnt STOP ..not then..not today...can we assume that IF Guru Nanak ji had spoken in SHUDH SANSKRIT...things would be different ?? There are a couple of Pages of SHUDH SANSKRIT in the SGGS....just how many Hindus love those Pages and memorise them ???

 

[Serjinder Singh]

Amabarsaria ji
Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Given below are some shabads in non-Panjabi languages, such as Sadh Bhasha (a dialect of Hindi), Sahaskriti (an evolved version of Sanskrit), and Farsi (language of Iran).

Guru Granth Sahib Page 219
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The Shabads by Guru Teg Bahadurji are almost entirely in a dialect of Hindi known as Sadh Bhasha the was the main medium of dialogue among religious people in North India. The following is just one shabad among a large number of Guruji’s compositions.
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ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥
गउड़ी महला ९ ॥
Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 9.
Gauree, Ninth Mehl:
ਸਾਧੋ ਰਚਨਾ ਰਾਮ ਬਨਾਈ ॥
साधो रचना राम बनाई ॥
Sāḏẖo racẖnā rām banā▫ī.
Holy Saadhus: the Lord fashioned the creation.
ਇਕਿ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਇਕ ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਮਾਨੈ ਅਚਰਜੁ ਲਖਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
इकि बिनसै इक असथिरु मानै अचरजु लखिओ न जाई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ik binsai ik asthir mānai acẖraj lakẖi▫o na jā▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
One person passes away, and another thinks that he will live forever - this is a wonder beyond understanding! ||1||Pause||
<o> </o>
ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਮੋਹ ਬਸਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਹਰਿ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਬਿਸਰਾਈ ॥
काम क्रोध मोह बसि प्रानी हरि मूरति बिसराई ॥
Kām kroḏẖ moh bas parānī har mūraṯ bisrā▫ī.
The mortal beings are held in the power of sexual desire, anger and emotional attachment; they have forgotten the Lord, the Immortal Form.
ਝੂਠਾ ਤਨੁ ਸਾਚਾ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਿਓ ਜਿਉ ਸੁਪਨਾ ਰੈਨਾਈ ॥੧॥
झूठा तनु साचा करि मानिओ जिउ सुपना रैनाई ॥१॥
Jẖūṯẖā ṯan sācẖā kar māni▫o ji▫o supnā rainā▫ī. ||1||
The body is false, but they believe it to be true; it is like a dream in the night. ||1||
ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਸੋ ਸਗਲ ਬਿਨਾਸੈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਦਰ ਕੀ ਛਾਈ ॥
जो दीसै सो सगल बिनासै जिउ बादर की छाई ॥
Jo ḏīsai so sagal bināsai ji▫o bāḏar kī cẖẖā▫ī.
Whatever is seen, shall all pass away, like the shadow of a cloud.
<o> </o>
ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਗੁ ਜਾਨਿਓ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਰਹਿਓ ਰਾਮ ਸਰਨਾਈ ॥੨॥੨॥
जन नानक जगु जानिओ मिथिआ रहिओ राम सरनाई ॥२॥२॥
Jan Nānak jag jāni▫o mithi▫ā rahi▫o rām sarnā▫ī. ||2||2||
O servant Nanak, one who knows the world to be unreal, dwells in the Sanctuary of the Lord. ||2||2||
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Guru Granth Sahib ji Page 1353 (67 stanzas in all, only one stanza given below. The language is called ‘Sahaskriti.’ Word Sahaskriti is an evolved version of classical Sanskrit. Prakrit, Pali, Sahaskriti and some other evolutes of Sanskrit were the languages spoken by common people unlike Sanskrit that was the language of Hidnu scriptures. I have given only the first stanza of this Shabad out of 67. There are more such Shabads in Sahaskriti.
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ਸਲੋਕ ਸਹਸਕ੍ਰਿਤੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫
सलोक सहसक्रिती महला ५
Salok sėhaskariṯī mėhlā 5
Shalok Sehskritee, Fifth Mehl:
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ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सति नामु करता पुरखु निरभउ निरवैरु अकाल मूरति अजूनी सैभं गुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯ nām karṯā purakẖ nirbẖa▫o nirvair akāl mūraṯ ajūnī saibẖaʼn gur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. Truth Is The Name. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying. Beyond Birth. Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace:
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ਕਤੰਚ ਮਾਤਾ ਕਤੰਚ ਪਿਤਾ ਕਤੰਚ ਬਨਿਤਾ ਬਿਨੋਦ ਸੁਤਹ ॥
कतंच माता कतंच पिता कतंच बनिता बिनोद सुतह ॥
Kaṯancẖ māṯā kaṯancẖ piṯā kaṯancẖ baniṯā binoḏ suṯah.
Who is the mother, and who is the father? Who is the son, and what is the pleasure of marriage?
ਕਤੰਚ ਭ੍ਰਾਤ ਮੀਤ ਹਿਤ ਬੰਧਵ ਕਤੰਚ ਮੋਹ ਕੁਟੰਬ੍ਯ੍ਯਤੇ ॥
कतंच भ्रात मीत हित बंधव कतंच मोह कुट्मब्यते ॥
Kaṯancẖ bẖarāṯ mīṯ hiṯ banḏẖav kaṯancẖ moh kutamb▫yaṯe.
Who is the brother, friend, companion and relative? Who is emotionally attached to the family?
ਕਤੰਚ ਚਪਲ ਮੋਹਨੀ ਰੂਪੰ ਪੇਖੰਤੇ ਤਿਆਗੰ ਕਰੋਤਿ ॥
कतंच चपल मोहनी रूपं पेखंते तिआगं करोति ॥
Kaṯancẖ cẖapal mohnī rūpaʼn pekẖanṯe ṯi▫āgaʼn karoṯ.
Who is restlessly attached to beauty? It leaves, as soon as we see it.
ਰਹੰਤ ਸੰਗ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਸਿਮਰਣ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਬਧ੍ਯ੍ਯੰ ਅਚੁਤ ਤਨਹ ॥੧॥
रहंत संग भगवान सिमरण नानक लबध्यं अचुत तनह ॥१॥
Rahanṯ sang bẖagvān simraṇ Nānak labḏẖa▫yaʼn acẖuṯ ṯanah. ||1||
Only the meditative remembrance of God remains with us. O Nanak, it brings the blessings of the Saints, the sons of the Imperishable Lord. ||1||
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Guru Granth Sahib Page 721
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This Shabad is entirely in Farsi, the language of Iran.

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ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੧
रागु तिलंग महला १ घरु १
Rāg ṯilang mėhlā 1 gẖar 1
Raag Tilang, First Mehl, First House:
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ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सति नामु करता पुरखु निरभउ निरवैरु अकाल मूरति अजूनी सैभं गुर प्रसादि
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ਯਕ ਅਰਜ ਗੁਫਤਮ ਪੇਸਿ ਤੋ ਦਰ ਗੋਸ ਕੁਨ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥
यक अरज गुफतम पेसि तो दर गोस कुन करतार ॥
Yak araj gufṯam pes ṯo ḏar gos kun karṯār.
I offer this one prayer to You; please listen to it, O Creator Lord.
ਹਕਾ ਕਬੀਰ ਕਰੀਮ ਤੂ ਬੇਐਬ ਪਰਵਦਗਾਰ ॥੧॥
हका कबीर करीम तू बेऐब परवदगार ॥१॥
Hakā Kabīr karīm ṯū be▫aib parvarḏagār. ||1||
You are true, great, merciful and spotless, O Cherisher Lord. ||1||
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ਦੁਨੀਆ ਮੁਕਾਮੇ ਫਾਨੀ ਤਹਕੀਕ ਦਿਲ ਦਾਨੀ ॥
दुनीआ मुकामे फानी तहकीक दिल दानी ॥
Ḏunī▫ā mukāme fānī ṯėhkīk ḏil ḏānī.
The world is a transitory place of mortality - know this for certain in your mind.
<o> </o>
ਮਮ ਸਰ ਮੂਇ ਅਜਰਾਈਲ ਗਿਰਫਤਹ ਦਿਲ ਹੇਚਿ ਨ ਦਾਨੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
मम सर मूइ अजराईल गिरफतह दिल हेचि न दानी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Mam sar mū▫e ajrā▫īl girafṯėh ḏil hecẖ na ḏānī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death, has caught me by the hair on my head, and yet, I do not know it at all in my mind. ||1||Pause||
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ਜਨ ਪਿਸਰ ਪਦਰ ਬਿਰਾਦਰਾਂ ਕਸ ਨੇਸ ਦਸਤੰਗੀਰ ॥
जन पिसर पदर बिरादरां कस नेस दसतंगीर ॥
Jan pisar paḏar birāḏarāʼn kas nes ḏasṯaʼngīr.
Spouse, children, parents and siblings - none of them will be there to hold your hand.
ਆਖਿਰ ਬਿਅਫਤਮ ਕਸ ਨ ਦਾਰਦ ਚੂੰ ਸਵਦ ਤਕਬੀਰ ॥੨॥
आखिर बिअफतम कस न दारद चूं सवद तकबीर ॥२॥
Ākẖir bi▫afṯam kas na ḏāraḏ cẖūʼn savaḏ ṯakbīr. ||2||
And when at last I fall, and the time of my last prayer has come, there shall be no one to rescue me. ||2||
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ਸਬ ਰੋਜ ਗਸਤਮ ਦਰ ਹਵਾ ਕਰਦੇਮ ਬਦੀ ਖਿਆਲ ॥
सब रोज गसतम दर हवा करदेम बदी खिआल ॥
Sab roj gasṯam ḏar havā karḏem baḏī kẖi▫āl.
Night and day, I wandered around in greed, contemplating evil schemes.
ਗਾਹੇ ਨ ਨੇਕੀ ਕਾਰ ਕਰਦਮ ਮਮ ਈ. ਚਿਨੀ ਅਹਵਾਲ ॥੩॥
गाहे न नेकी कार करदम मम ईं चिनी अहवाल ॥३॥
Gāhe na nekī kār karḏam mam īʼn cẖinī ahvāl. ||3||
I never did good deeds; this is my condition. ||3||
ਬਦਬਖਤ ਹਮ ਚੁ ਬਖੀਲ ਗਾਫਿਲ ਬੇਨਜਰ ਬੇਬਾਕ ॥
बदबखत हम चु बखील गाफिल बेनजर बेबाक ॥
Baḏbakẖaṯ ham cẖo bakẖīl gāfil benajar bebāk.
I am unfortunate, miserly, negligent, shameless and without the Fear of God.
ਨਾਨਕ ਬੁਗੋਯਦ ਜਨੁ ਤੁਰਾ ਤੇਰੇ ਚਾਕਰਾਂ ਪਾ ਖਾਕ ॥੪॥੧॥
नानक बुगोयद जनु तुरा तेरे चाकरां पा खाक ॥४॥१॥
Nānak bugoyaḏ jan ṯurā ṯere cẖākrāʼn pā kẖāk. ||4||1||
Says Nanak, I am Your humble servant, the dust of the feet of Your slaves. ||4||1||

Humbly
Serjinder Singh

 

[Luckysingh]

Serjinder ji, thanks for the reply to your declaration.
Of course !!! I can see what you mean.
Although I wondered what you were talking about at first!!!

Gurmukhi is just the script or written language. It is not a spoken language, but punjabi is the associated language as we know.
However, we also know that punjabi can still be written in shamukhi as it used to be in most of punjab and it still is in pakistan.

I see exactly what you are saying about the different languages as it is not just the use of a few words. We see whole shabads in hindi, sanskrit, sehskrit, braj, persian and farsi. Just that they are written in gurmukhi but the spoken word is not.

 

[Serjinder Singh]

Luckysingh ji

My point is that we as Sikhs are unnecessarily being possessive about Panjabi. Of course, as Panjabi Sikhs we certainly love our language and I feel so should non-sikh Panjabis. Many Panjabi speaking Pakistanis have begun propagating their love for their language on the net and politically also by getting Panjabi to be part of postgraduate studies in Panjab University Lahore and also to recognise Panjabi heroes like Bhagat Singh by getting government there to name a Chowk in Lahore as Bhagat Singh Chowk that is at exactly the spot where the hero was hanged. However, when we begin to associate a language with a religion we alienate persons speaking that language from owning it. There are definitely other reasons for Hindus to disown Panjabi such as the role of Arya Samaj movement etc. However, I do not see any wisdom to keep saying Panjabi is Panjabi only because it is the language of Guru Granth Sahib. Gurus were very open to accept any language be it the Marathi of Bhagat Namdev, Farsi or Iranis or Sanskrit of Bhagat Jaidev or beautiful Panjabi of Baba Freed ji. Lots of Pakistanis are writing Panjabi in Shahmukhi script (in fact, it is just a convenient name for Urdu script) and publishing books in Shahmukhi as well as learning Gurmukhi.

Thanks for your comments

Humbly
Serjinder Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

PUNJABI fell victim to "religious zealots/alienated" simply because of its SCRIPT - called GURMUKHI by Sikhs. Muslims dont like this...as they write PUNJABI in URDU/now renamed SHAHMUKHI as compared to GUR-MUKHI !! From the MUKH of the Guru for Sikhs and form the Mukh of SHAH for Muslims !! Hindus never accepted Gurmukhi becasue of the HINDU-HINDI-HINDUSTAAN and promotion of DEVNAGREE SCRIPT. Hindus also have a dream of completley ABSORBING the Sikh rleigion back into its fold and hope by doing THAT..Punjabi/Gurmukhi etc will die a natural death. Hindu-Hindi-Hindoostaan still exists today in a strong Lobby at the Center which is continually looking into how to make PUNJAB/PUNJABI/SIKHS/...suffer - no Suba for Punjabi as is natural due to the Indian Constitution, Punjab waters, electricity, capital city not given to Punjab even after 60 years of independence...etc etc is POLICY driven discrimination.

Its SGGS being written in GURMUKHI SCRIPT that has actually SAVED the PUNJABI LANGUAGE....virtually the ENTIRE INTERNET development of GURMUKHI fonts etc has come about due to GURBANI/SGGS. 99% of Internet sites ref PUNJABI run in GURMUKHI SCRIPT !! MICROSOFT...GOOGLE etc have helped develop GURMUKHI FONTS search engines etc..Gurmukhi fonts can be used in Face Book etc.. Most APPS being developed for Android Ipad etc also use GURMUKHI and are for GURBANI mostly !! SO its very TRUE that SGGS Saved the Gurmukhi script/Punjabi from oblivion for the past 500 years and is the reason for its entry on the world stage of Internet too....The VERY FIRST FONTS developed by DR THIND and others in the early 1990's were for GURBANI/SGGS !!..and now ordinary people are WRITING in GURMUKHI/PUNJABI on social networking sites etc...setting up websites etc...so PUNJABI is BACK !!
URDU has failed to penetrate the Ordinary HOUSEHOLD in pakistan even after 65 years..at HOME MOST Pakstani Punjabis speak PUNJABI...URDU remains the Official language simialr to HINDI in India (Hindi has no space in the SOUTH states of India...and even states like GUJRAT, MAHARASHTRA etc etc...its being FORCEFED form DELHI via POLICY DECISION based on LOBBY for Hindu-Hindi-Hindoostan..Its TRUE that Indian sikhs in Punjab delhi etc have discarded their mother tongue in favour of Hindi....unlike their Pakistani brothers who have stayed LOYAL to their Mother tongue)

 

[Ambarsaria]

Serjinder Singh ji thanks for your post. I have noted some comments and am reposting your Gurbani excerpts from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in non-concatenated/”not-larivaar” fashion so we can see the words and vocabulary usage.

I have highlighted in red the words I would call non-core Punjabi but it is not a scientific survey but more my experience and knowledge based. I visualize that what words in a Punjabi village and people of Punjabi heritage would have difficulty quickly associating with.

The Shabads by Guru Teg Bahadurji are almost entirely in a dialect of Hindi known as Sadh Bhasha the was the main medium of dialogue among religious people in North India.

FALSE
Look at the little need to use the red highlighting in the shabad.
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="mso-cellspacing:3.7pt" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="5"> <tbody><tr style="mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:1"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥
गउड़ी महला ९ ॥
Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 9.
Gauree, Ninth Mehl:
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:2"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਸਾਧੋ ਰਚਨਾ ਰਾਮ ਬਨਾਈ ॥
साधो रचना राम बनाई ॥
Sāḏẖo racẖnā rām banā▫ī.
Holy Saadhus: the Lord fashioned the creation.
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:3"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਇਕਿ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਇਕ ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਮਾਨੈ ਅਚਰਜੁ ਲਖਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
इकि बिनसै इक असथिरु मानै अचरजु लखिओ न जाई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ik binsai ik asthir mānai acẖraj lakẖi▫o na jā▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
One person passes away, and another thinks that he will live forever - this is a wonder beyond understanding! ||1||Pause||
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:4"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਮੋਹ ਬਸਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਹਰਿ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਬਿਸਰਾਈ ॥
काम क्रोध मोह बसि प्रानी हरि मूरति बिसराई ॥
Kām kroḏẖ moh bas parānī har mūraṯ bisrā▫ī.
The mortal beings are held in the power of sexual desire, anger and emotional attachment; they have forgotten the Lord, the Immortal Form.
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:5"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਝੂਠਾ ਤਨੁ ਸਾਚਾ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਿਓ ਜਿਉ ਸੁਪਨਾ ਰੈਨਾਈ॥੧॥
झूठा तनु साचा करि मानिओ जिउ सुपना रैनाई ॥१॥
Jẖūṯẖā ṯan sācẖā kar māni▫o ji▫o supnā rainā▫ī. ||1||
The body is false, but they believe it to be true; it is like a dream in the night. ||1||
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:6"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਸੋ ਸਗਲ ਬਿਨਾਸੈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਦਰ ਕੀ ਛਾਈ ॥
जो दीसै सो सगल बिनासै जिउ बादर की छाई ॥
Jo ḏīsai so sagal bināsai ji▫o bāḏar kī cẖẖā▫ī.
Whatever is seen, shall all pass away, like the shadow of a cloud.
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:7;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਗੁ ਜਾਨਿਓ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਰਹਿਓ ਰਾਮ ਸਰਨਾਈ ॥੨॥੨॥
जन नानक जगु जानिओ मिथिआ रहिओ राम सरनाई ॥२॥२॥
Jan Nānak jag jāni▫o mithi▫ā rahi▫o rām sarnā▫ī. ||2||2||
O servant Nanak, one who knows the world to be unreal, dwells in the Sanctuary of the Lord. ||2||2||
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Guru Granth Sahib ji Page 1353 (67 stanzas in all, only one stanza given below. The language is called ‘Sahaskriti.’

AGREED that there is greater use of non-core or familiar Punjabi vocabulary even stated so by Guru ji. It is not HINDI which was your initial premise that by making Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji based on Punjabi language and Gurmukhi script that we have alienated Hindus.

Your core premise is totally false. None of the Shabads provide support that Gurbani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is in Hindi language with Gurmukhi script.

Sahaskriti is not Hindi.


<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="mso-cellspacing:3.7pt" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="5"> <tbody><tr style="mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:1"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਸਲੋਕ ਸਹਸਕ੍ਰਿਤੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫
सलोक सहसक्रिती महला ५
Salok sėhaskariṯī mėhlā 5
Shalok Sehskritee, Fifth Mehl:
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:2"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सति नामु करता पुरखु निरभउ निरवैरु अकाल मूरति अजूनी सैभं गुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯ nām karṯā purakẖ nirbẖa▫o nirvair akāl mūraṯ ajūnī saibẖaʼn gur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. Truth Is The Name. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying. Beyond Birth. Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace:
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:3"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਕਤੰਚ ਮਾਤਾ ਕਤੰਚ ਪਿਤਾ ਕਤੰਚ ਬਨਿਤਾ ਬਿਨੋਦਸੁਤਹ॥
कतंच माता कतंच पिता कतंच बनिता बिनोद सुतह ॥
Kaṯancẖ māṯā kaṯancẖ piṯā kaṯancẖ baniṯā binoḏ suṯah.
Who is the mother, and who is the father? Who is the son, and what is the pleasure of marriage?
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:4"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਕਤੰਚ ਭ੍ਰਾਤ ਮੀਤ ਹਿਤ ਬੰਧਵਕਤੰਚਮੋਹ ਕੁਟੰਬ੍ਯ੍ਯਤੇ ॥
कतंच भ्रात मीत हित बंधव कतंच मोह कुट्मब्यते ॥
Kaṯancẖ bẖarāṯ mīṯ hiṯ banḏẖav kaṯancẖ moh kutamb▫yaṯe.
Who is the brother, friend, companion and relative? Who is emotionally attached to the family?
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:5"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਕਤੰਚਚਪਲਮੋਹਨੀ ਰੂਪੰ ਪੇਖੰਤੇਤਿਆਗੰਕਰੋਤਿ॥
कतंच चपल मोहनी रूपं पेखंते तिआगं करोति ॥
Kaṯancẖ cẖapal mohnī rūpaʼn pekẖanṯe ṯi▫āgaʼn karoṯ.
Who is restlessly attached to beauty? It leaves, as soon as we see it.
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:6;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਰਹੰਤ ਸੰਗ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਸਿਮਰਣ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਬਧ੍ਯ੍ਯੰਅਚੁਤਤਨਹ ॥੧॥
रहंत संग भगवान सिमरण नानक लबध्यं अचुत तनह ॥१॥
Rahanṯ sang bẖagvān simraṇ Nānak labḏẖa▫yaʼn acẖuṯ ṯanah. ||1||
Only the meditative remembrance of God remains with us. O Nanak, it brings the blessings of the Saints, the sons of the Imperishable Lord. ||1||
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Guru Granth Sahib Page 721

This Shabad is entirely in Farsi, the language of Iran.

FALSE.

The style is Persian/farsi but there is enough sprinkling of common Punjabi words. Look at the map of Punjab posted later and see what would have been considered collective Punjabi with dialects over a vast area. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji originated from this area and teachings first spread in this area through Guru ji’s. They needed to relate to various dialects. Words, vocabulary, etc., for the people they were addressing. Hence a sprinkle of dialects with embedded Punjabi as core
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="mso-cellspacing:3.7pt" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="5"> <tbody><tr style="mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:1"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੧
रागु तिलंग महला १ घरु १
Rāg ṯilang mėhlā 1 gẖar 1
Raag Tilang, First Mehl, First House:
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:2"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सति नामु करता पुरखु निरभउ निरवैरु अकाल मूरति अजूनी सैभं गुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯ nām karṯā purakẖ nirbẖa▫o nirvair akāl mūraṯ ajūnī saibẖaʼn gur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. Truth Is The Name. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying. Beyond Birth. Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace:
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:3"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਯਕ ਅਰਜ ਗੁਫਤਮਪੇਸਿਤੋ ਦਰ ਗੋਸਕੁਨਕਰਤਾਰ ॥
यक अरज गुफतम पेसि तो दर गोस कुन करतार ॥
Yak araj gufṯam pes ṯo ḏar gos kun karṯār.
I offer this one prayer to You; please listen to it, O Creator Lord.
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:4"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਹਕਾ ਕਬੀਰ ਕਰੀਮ ਤੂ ਬੇਐਬ ਪਰਵਦਗਾਰ ॥੧॥
हका कबीर करीम तू बेऐब परवदगार ॥१॥
Hakā Kabīr karīm ṯū be▫aib parvarḏagār. ||1||
You are true, great, merciful and spotless, O Cherisher Lord. ||1||
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:5"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਦੁਨੀਆ ਮੁਕਾਮੇਫਾਨੀਤਹਕੀਕਦਿਲ ਦਾਨੀ ॥
दुनीआ मुकामे फानी तहकीक दिल दानी ॥
Ḏunī▫ā mukāme fānī ṯėhkīk ḏil ḏānī.
The world is a transitory place of mortality - know this for certain in your mind.
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:6"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਮਮਸਰਮੂਇ ਅਜਰਾਈਲ ਗਿਰਫਤਹ ਦਿਲ ਹੇਚਿਨਦਾਨੀ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
मम सर मूइ अजराईल गिरफतह दिल हेचि न दानी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Mam sar mū▫e ajrā▫īl girafṯėh ḏil hecẖ na ḏānī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death, has caught me by the hair on my head, and yet, I do not know it at all in my mind. ||1||Pause||
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:7"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਜਨਪਿਸਰਪਦਰਬਿਰਾਦਰਾਂ ਕਸਨੇਸਦਸਤੰਗੀਰ॥
जन पिसर पदर बिरादरां कस नेस दसतंगीर ॥
Jan pisar paḏar birāḏarāʼn kas nes ḏasṯaʼngīr.
Spouse, children, parents and siblings - none of them will be there to hold your hand.
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:8"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਆਖਿਰ ਬਿਅਫਤਮਕਸਨਦਾਰਦਚੂੰਸਵਦਤਕਬੀਰ ॥੨॥
आखिर बिअफतम कस न दारद चूं सवद तकबीर ॥२॥
Ākẖir bi▫afṯam kas na ḏāraḏ cẖūʼn savaḏ ṯakbīr. ||2||
And when at last I fall, and the time of my last prayer has come, there shall be no one to rescue me. ||2||
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:9"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਸਬ ਰੋਜ ਗਸਤਮ ਦਰ ਹਵਾ ਕਰਦੇਮ ਬਦੀ ਖਿਆਲ ॥
सब रोज गसतम दर हवा करदेम बदी खिआल ॥
Sab roj gasṯam ḏar havā karḏem baḏī kẖi▫āl.
Night and day, I wandered around in greed, contemplating evil schemes.
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:10"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਗਾਹੇ ਨ ਨੇਕੀ ਕਾਰ ਕਰਦਮਮਮ.ਈਚਿਨੀਅਹਵਾਲ॥੩॥
गाहे न नेकी कार करदम मम ईं चिनी अहवाल ॥३॥
Gāhe na nekī kār karḏam mam īʼn cẖinī ahvāl. ||3||
I never did good deeds; this is my condition. ||3||
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:11"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਬਦਬਖਤ ਹਮਚੁਬਖੀਲਗਾਫਿਲਬੇਨਜਰ ਬੇਬਾਕ ॥
बदबखत हम चु बखील गाफिल बेनजर बेबाक ॥
Baḏbakẖaṯ ham cẖo bakẖīl gāfil benajar bebāk.
I am unfortunate, miserly, negligent, shameless and without the Fear of God.
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:12;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes"> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> ਨਾਨਕ ਬੁਗੋਯਦ ਜਨੁ ਤੁਰਾ ਤੇਰੇ ਚਾਕਰਾਂ ਪਾ ਖਾਕ ॥੪॥੧॥
नानक बुगोयद जनु तुरा तेरे चाकरां पा खाक ॥४॥१॥
Nānak bugoyaḏ jan ṯurā ṯere cẖākrāʼn pā kẖāk. ||4||1||
Says Nanak, I am Your humble servant, the dust of the feet of Your slaves. ||4||1||
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> [/QUOTE]

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji reflects in large part the Punjabi language in style, dialects and vocabulary of the region. It was written in Gurmukhi script.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not written in Sanskrit, Hindi or Persian but is in Punjabi of the region at the times written in Gurmukhi scripti.
​

Sat Sri Akal.
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[BhagatSingh]

Ambarsaria ji,
There are no rigid distinction between those languages. Punjabi, Farsi, Hindi, Sanskrit etc borrow words from each other. Languages tend to blend in close proximity. The further they are from one another, the less mixture occurs. We also have Arabic words in Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu like duniya, which come from Mughal and Persian invasions.

Guru Tegh Bahadur ji's bani is in Hindi. this is clear if you go through all of them. Some dialects of Hindi replace V with B, etc. That does not make it Punjabi.

You are always 100% of the time, going to find a mix of languages in any particular couplet, so you can take many shabads and say look "this is a word from a different language". You can always do that but that would be nit-picking and would discourage discussion.

The map of Punjab you show is a modern 1800s map of Maharaj Ranjit Singh's times, after many conquests by great generals like Dewan Mohkam Chand and Hari Singh Nalwa. Do you have any proof of how Punjab looked at the time of Guru Nanak Dev ji? Let me tell you, Guru Nanak Dev ji was born in Afghan districts. Daulat Khan Lodhi, an afghan, owned that region of which was part of, what is today known as, modern Pakistan, where Guru ji was born. The takht of Delhi was also ruled by Afghans at the time. Do you ever wonder why Afghans invaded India, during Baba Deep Singh's times? They wanted it back!

 

[BhagatSingh]

Gyani ji,
First we distance Hindus by calling them brainless ritualistic folk, we degenerate and degrade their religions into a bunch of rituals and say "Gurus condemn all of this evil". Then we say "oh they don't accept us because they are Hindu Hindi Hindustan". What kind of logic is this?

You know as well as I that those who do shout the 3 H are extremists. And you know very well that we have our own lot of "Sikh Punjabi Khalistan" types.

So we separate ourselves devaluing beliefs systems of other communities then blame it on them for not accepting us, which further separates us. This a vicious cycle. It cannot be stopped by participating in it. Get out while you can.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Bhagat Singh ji I appreciate if you focus on content.

Guru Tegh Bahadur ji's bani is in Hindi. this is clear

Your statements like the above are simply noxious and not relevant. Brother you hardly understand or can read Punjabi the way Guru ji's wrote it. I will comment in the appropriate post on your Bhajan fetish.

Not that Sikhs believe in blasphemy, I do believe that your approach is borderline utterly dis-respectful in such statements about Guru ji's and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Let me not stop you from your love of Hindi, Hindu and Hindustan.

Fastest way to kill people, cultures and heritage is to kill the language first. In Sikhism it is Punjabi based on Gurmukhi script which needs to survive. Your efforts passive or otherwise to contribute towards the destruction of the same in measures small or large may be appreciated by some but not by me.

The map of Punjab you show is a modern 1800s map of Maharaj Ranjit Singh's times, after many conquests by great generals like Dewan Mohkam Chand and Hari Singh Nalwa. Do you have any proof of how Punjab looked at the time of Guru Nanak Dev ji?

You sincerely believe that between 1708 and the early 1800s the dialects of that region changed and the language Punjabi was nowhere to be found. Pretty bizarre! Sorry I don't take direction from you to find maps and stuff, given your young age you should be able to find stuff in less than 10% of my time.

Let me tell you, Guru Nanak Dev ji was born in Afghan districts. Daulat Khan Lodhi, an afghan, owned that region of which was part of, what is today known as, modern Pakistan, where Guru ji was born. The takht of Delhi was also ruled by Afghans at the time. Do you ever wonder why Afghans invaded India, during Baba Deep Singh's times? They wanted it back!

What has this got to do with Punjabi and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji constructs.

Urdu Punjabi writings and teaching was way more popular and the way compared to Gurmukhi script. Language and the pronunciations were the same.

Learn Punjabi brother if you have not or if you care about Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sikhism.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Your reply makes it clear that you are here to fight, promote verbal abuse and not partake in any constructive discussion. Thanks for the heads up.

I don't appreciate the way you address me. No more replies to your posts.

Have a nice time on the forum.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Your reply makes it clear that you are here to fight, promote verbal abuse and not partake in any constructive discussion. Thanks for the heads up.

I don't appreciate the way you address me. No more replies to your posts.

Have a nice time on the forum.

No problem. But it ain't that easy. I will reply to your posts if I need to.

Sat Sri Akal/"Truth be eternal"

 

[Luckysingh]

I'm not sure that I totally get this.
We are aware that some 20 languages are used in gurbani.
There is no doubt that of these hindi and persian are quite popular.
Many of Guru Gobind Singh ji's writings were persian and as well as bhai Nand Lal ji's.

Are we saying that whole tuks or shabads are using mixtures of these languages.. ie. a few words here and there whilst keeping the core punjabi ?

With the farsi shabad above, I know that some punjabi words have been highlighted, but are we certain that these are solely punjabi and only belong to punjab ?
Because, I was always under the impression that most of punjabi is derived from mixtures of sanskrit, hindi, persian..etc...
AND most punajbi words are derived from older medieval type languages when you look into them.

Therefore, I'm not sure that the guru's would mix and match different words from different lanuages to cause confusion.
If they did, then there must be some good reasons.

I know that Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Bhai Nand Lal ji preferred persian for their poetry because they felt it was expressed more deeply in this manner, hence all of zafarnama is in persian although it was addressed to Aurungzeb.
But other areas where it was used were not addressed to him or moghuls.

There are many many words in our English and french that are themselves derived from persian and sanskrit words. Because these were the more influential medieval languages.
A simple example I can give is the word pineapple which in persian,arabic, indian and French is anana.
Infact french has more sanskrit and persian derived words than european english !!!

Je ne comprend pas le discuter!!!!
I don't understand this debate properly

 

[BhagatSingh]

Lucky Singh ji,
You said it so much better than I.

 

[Ambarsaria]

I'm not sure that I totally get this.
We are aware that some 20 languages are used in gurbani.

Brother words from languages does not make the core language that language.

Example: Guru used commonly in English does not make any writing to be classified as Hindi, Punjabi or Urdu

Many of Guru Gobind Singh ji's writings were persian and as well as bhai Nand Lal ji's.

Veer Luckysingh ji we need to stay focussed in our dialog. This thread is about SGGS.

Are we saying that whole tuks or shabads are using mixtures of these languages.. ie. a few words here and there whilst keeping the core punjabi ?

That is what I have stated.

With the farsi shabad above, I know that some punjabi words have been highlighted, but are we certain that these are solely punjabi and only belong to punjab ?

In the heat of defending or projecting a proposition or to defend a hypothesis please don't take your eye of the ball. The colored words are what I will from my knowledge state that a common Punjabi speaker or person may not be aware of as part of Punjabi. You have reversed the connotation of how I highlighted it.

Because, I was always under the impression that most of punjabi is derived from mixtures of sanskrit, hindi, persian..etc...

Luckysingh ji this is not a debate about the origin of Punjabi. Let us stay focused. Ignoring the pre-dominance of Punjabi in SGGS and starting to postulate as though other languages are dominant in SGGS is the core issue. Such suppositions are clearly wrong.

AND most punajbi words are derived from older medieval type languages when you look into them.

Therefore, I'm not sure that the guru's would mix and match different words from different lanuages to cause confusion. If they did, then there must be some good reasons.

There is no confusion in the usage of commonly used words of a region if well understood. This is how people communicate without becoming subjugate to the lesser or non-core language in any works.

I know that Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Bhai Nand Lal ji preferred persian for their poetry because they felt it was expressed more deeply in this manner, hence all of zafarnama is in persian although it was addressed to Aurungzeb.
But other areas where it was used were not addressed to him or moghuls.

Luckysingh ji this thread is not about Dasam Granth or any other writings. Let us not keep confusing through such non-focussed entry of sundries.

There are many many words in our English and french that are themselves derived from persian and sanskrit words. Because these were the more influential medieval languages.
A simple example I can give is the word pineapple which in persian,arabic, indian and French is anana.
Infact french has more sanskrit and persian derived words than european english !!!
Je ne comprend pas le discuter!!!!
I don't understand this debate properly

This thread is not about study of world languages and their creation. Very simple as to what is needed to understand SGGS. Professor Sahib Singh ji and a basic study of Punjabi to reasonable level of completion is all that is needed. Occasional words of non-Punjabi core or origin can be looked at from the languages these come from.

Bhagat Singh ji states he agrees with you. I do not know what he is agreeing to!

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Luckysingh]

Many thanks Ambarsaria ji,

I actually understand exactly what you are saying and I also understand what Bhagat ji was trying to say.
YES, we must accept that many other languages (22 in total-I think) are included in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. But the core and dominant language is of course punjabi which is for the geographical location.
Now, personally I think it'something to be proud of as a sikh, because this just confirms how universal the gurbani message from our Guru's was. It also proves just how wise they really were.
When you compare this to other religions, not one comes closer with the universal appeal of differing languages and not just addressing to one set or clan of people of that era.

I think your quote summedit up quite well

Let us stay focused. Ignoring the pre-dominance of Punjabi in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and starting to postulate as though other languages are dominant in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the core issue.

 

[BhagatSingh]

I found the references to back up what Serjinder Singh ji was saying, on wikipedia.

Religion and Nationalism in India By Harnik Deol. Published by Routledge, 2000. ISBN 0-415-20108-X, 9780415201087. Page 22. "Remarkably, neither is the Qur'an written in Urdu language, nor are the Hindu scriptures written in Hindi, whereas the compositions in the Sikh holy book, Adi Granth, are a melange of various dialects, often coalesced under the generic title of Sant Bhasha."


The making of Sikh scripture by Gurinder Singh Mann. Published by Oxford University Press US, 2001. ISBN 0-19-513024-3, ISBN 978-0-19-513024-9 Page 5. "The language of the hymns recorded in the Adi Granth has been called "Sant Bhasha," a kind of lingua franca used by the medieval saint-poets of northern India. But the broad range of contributors to the text produced a complex mix of regional dialects."

History of Punjabi Literature by Surindar Singh Kohli. Page 48. Published by National Book, 1993. ISBN 81-7116-141-3, ISBN 978-81-7116-141-6. "When we go through the hymns and compositions of the Guru written in Sant Bhasha (saint- language), it appears that some Indian saint of 16th century".

Introduction: Guru Granth Sahib. "The Guru Granth Sahib is written in Gurmukhi script. The language, which is most often Sant Bhasha, is very close to Punjabi. It is well understood all over northern and northwest India and is popular among the wandering holy men. Persian and some local dialects have also been used. Many hymns contain words of different languages and dialects,depending upon the mother tongue of the writer or the language of the region where they were composed."

Songs of the Saints from the Adi Granth By Nirmal Dass. Published by SUNY Press, 2000. ISBN 0-7914-4683-2, ISBN 978-0-7914-4683-6. Page 13. "Any attempt at translating songs from the Adi Granth certainly involves working not with one language, but several, along with dialectical differences. The languages used by the saints range from Sanskrit; regional Prakrits; western, eastern and southern Apabhramsa; and Sahaskrit. More particularly, we find sant bhasha, Marathi, Old Hindi, central and Lehndi Panjabi, Sgettland Persian. There are also many dialects deployed, such as Purbi Marwari, Bangru, Dakhni, Malwai, and Awadhi."

Sikhism . The Guru Granth Sahib (GGS) By Harjinder Singh. "The Guru Granth Sahib also contains hymns which are written in a language known as Sahiskriti as well as Sant Bhasha, it also contains many Persian and Sanskrit words throughout."

 

[Ambarsaria]

The garbage to support a position is amply written and can be found on the internet. Many a books have been written to mis-direct as well.

Let us review one of the references from above,

Songs of the Saints from the Adi Granth By Nirmal Dass. Published by SUNY Press, 2000. ISBN 0-7914-4683-2, ISBN 978-0-7914-4683-6. Page 13. "Any attempt at translating songs from the Adi Granth certainly involves working not with one language, but several, along with dialectical differences. The languages used by the saints range from Sanskrit; regional Prakrits; western, eastern and southern Apabhramsa; and Sahaskrit. More particularly, we find sant bhasha, Marathi, Old Hindi, central and Lehndi Panjabi, Sgettland Persian. There are also many dialects deployed, such as Purbi Marwari, Bangru, Dakhni, Malwai, and Awadhi."

Without knowing the allegiance or intentions of the author, worth noting that Punjabi proper is not even mentioned. I assume he calls all Gurus as Sants (let us mix it up and equalize them down with all wanderers!) and what they spoke was Sant Bhasha. Indeed very remarkable that he claims there was no Punjabi in Punjab just a mish-mash.

It is remarkable that one can read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and understand it fairly well by just knowing Punjabi and a few words from other languages. The distortion is that instead of concluding that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is in Punjabi with use of some words from other languages it has been turned around to minimize Punjabi's role and even that at a specific version like lehndi Punjabi. It has been generalized to over almost the 500 year period that writings in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji encompass.

I repeat, first they will kill the language. I wonder what basis the Punjab was destroyed in the sixties if it was not Punjabi. "Sant Bhasha" province should have been created and recognized as language of Punjab. It would have been much bigger including most of Northern India. When it comes to destroying Sikhism and anything related to Sikhism, Punjabi is recognized but then people will go about saying there is no Punjabi. By the way I forgot that in Pakistan (dominant historic part of Punjabi Punjab) they call it "Sant Bhasha"lol.

Second they will kill history. Check how the role of Sikhs pre-1947 and post 1947 has been marginalized. The thrust is to keep reminding Sikhs about how bad Islam was and is to them and no one else. We all know Islam had no role in destroying or planning to destroy Sikhism in India post 1947. Who had this role!

Third, the religion is destroyed. Divisions are encouraged, mis-interpretations are encouraged and rewarded, the Dehras are sponsored, the list continues.

Folks in the above Steps 1 and 2 are visible to have taken place and for all to see who want to see. Of course the standard inferiority complex has been created to go with it, Sikhs did it to themselves.

The onslaught on core institutions and soul of Sikhism writings and wisdom is underway. Many have been converted in so called scholarly approach and secular or humanitarian view of the world. That is Sikhs should act seculalrly and allow themselves to be absorbed in the name of the same without protest.

When this phase is over secularism would have no meaning as Sikhism would have been destroyed and humanitarian will be as dictated by the pre-dominant religion that absorbs Sikhism. That of course will not be Islam and and I let you to ponder.

If people can not read and understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with assistance on specific words that they are not familiar with from Professor Sahib Singh ji and overall knowing Punjabi, they really need to work on learning Punjabi. Rest are all irrelevant red herrings nice to talk about but of little constructive value to do justice to the gift of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that our Guru ji gave us.

Take note of other statements to mis-direct through generalizations that certain Guru ji wrote their Bani in Hindi. I am sure this way all will be classified and made disjointed one by one and then there will be effort that not all Guru ji and the other contributors have same message in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This is like dismembering a unified body of very respectful and cohesive work and gift of our Guru ji in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. It makes my blood boil when I see all this as it is portrayed and sneaked in here at spn. However, I am just one person with one mind and one opinion. I wish I am proven wrong in all of the above that I have written.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: Suny Press is as follows,

http://www.sunypress.edu/l-18-about.aspx

A no name Publisher out of basically no name city, Buffalo New York, out of a basically no name University, as in University of Buffalo.

This is what the intro at the site says about the reference book of Nirmal Dass,

<table class="oddRow" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="showImgBorder" align="left" valign="top" width="76px"> </td> <td align="left" valign="top"> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td padma_font_family_property="tohama,verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida grande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="ProductNameText" align="left" valign="top">Songs of the Saints from the Adi Granth (October 2000)
Nirmal Dass - Translation and introduction by
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="maintext" align="left" valign="bottom">
An accessible translation of the songs of the saints from the Adi Granth, the Sikh holy book.
This complete and accessible translation of the songs of the saints from the Sikh holy book, the Adi Granth, provides access to the hymns written by Hindu and Muslim devotional writers of north India, who flourished from the twelfth to the eighteenth centuries.
The songs of the saints hold a unique position in Sikhism in that they provide t......
</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

 

[Serjinder Singh]

Ambarsaria ji, <?"urn:fficeffice" />
Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh
<o> </o>
Thanks for commenting on my earlier post. Below are some more thoughts for your consideration. I would value your intelligent views on this.
Out of 51 words of the Shabad given below(excluding Mool Mantar, Rahaao, Nanak etc) there are nearly half (23) Hindi words in this Shabad. The language nature and character is usually apparent from the use of pronouns, conjuncts, verbs etc that becomes different in Hindi and Panjabi. Thus, the words ਯਹ, ਅਪਨੀ ਸੀ, ਕਉ, ਅਪਨੋ, ਜਾ ਤੇ are patently indicative of overall Hindi narration.
<o> </o>
<o> </o>
Guru Granth Sahib, Page 436 (Hindi words in red)
<o> </o>
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ 9 ॥
ਯਹ ਮਨੁ ਨੈਕ ਨ ਕਹਿਓ ਕਰੈ ॥
ਸੀਖ ਸਿਖਾਇ ਰਹਿਓ ਅਪਨੀ ਸੀ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਤੇ ਨ ਟਰੈ ॥1॥ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਮਦਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੈ ਭਇਓ ਬਾਵਰੋ ਹਰਿ ਜਸੁ ਨਹਿ ਉਚਰੈ ॥
ਕਰਿ ਪਰਪੰਚੁ ਜਗਤ ਕਉ ਡਹਕੈ ਅਪਨੋ ਉਦਰੁ ਭਰੈ ॥1॥
ਸੁਆਨ ਪੂਛ ਜਿਉ ਹੋਇ ਨ ਸੂਧੋ ਕਹਿਓ ਨ ਕਾਨ ਧਰੈ ॥
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਜੁ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਤ ਜਾ ਤੇ ਕਾਜੁ ਸਰੈ ॥2॥1॥
<o> </o>
Hindi words, Panjabi equivalents in parenthesis: ਯਹ (ਇਹ), ਨੈਕ (ਥੋੜਾ), ਕਹਿਓ (ਕਿਹਾ), ਸੀਖ (ਸਿਖਿਆ), ਰਹਿਓ (ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ) ਅਪਨੀ (ਆਪਣੇ), ਸੀ (ਵਰਗੀ), ਦੁਰਮਤਿ (ਮਾੜੀ ਮੱਤ), ਟਰੈ (ਟਲੇ), ਮਦਿ (ਨਸ਼ਾ, ਸ਼ਰਾਬ), ਭਇਓ (ਹੋਇਆ), ਬਾਵਰੋ (ਪਾਗਲ), ਨਹਿ (ਨਾ), ਉਚਰੈ (ਕਹੇ), ਪਰਪੰਚ (ਪਖੰਡ), ਡਹਕੈ (ਛਲ ਕਰੇ), ਅਪਨੋ(ਆਪਣਾ ਹੀ), ਉਦਰੁ (ਪੇਟ), ਸੁਆਨ (ਕੁੱਤਾ), ਸੂਧੋ ( ਸਿੱਧੀ), ਕਹਿਓ (ਕਹੀ ਹੋਈ), ਜਾ ਤੇ (ਜਿਸ ਤੋਂ)

Humbly
Serjinder Singh

 

[Serjinder Singh]

Dear Ambarsaria ji,<?"urn:fficeffice" />
<o> </o>
Many thanks for going through my post and posting your valuable comments.
<o> </o>
I would like to add to your assessment of the Farsi Shabad in Tilang Rag of Guru Nanak Dev ji. You have selected the words in read that you think are in your view in Farsi. I accept your selection in red as Farsi. However, the ones not selected in read you probably assume to be Panjabi. Since, I have a university qualification in Farsi I would like to comment on the remaining words you probably assume are Panjabi. Certainly some of these, not all, are found in Panjabi, but even then their origin is Farsi whenever in history these were borrowed.
<o> </o>
It would be appropriate to humbly mention that I am a linguist and conversant with the following non-Indian languages: Farsi, Arabic, Pashto, Kurdish (three dialects, Kurmanji, Sorani, and Gorani), some expertise with Turkish and German. Of course, English is another one. Among the Indian languages in addition to Panjabi, Urdu, Hindi, Sanskrit, I have knowledge of Gujrati as well.
<o> </o>
Below, I am commenting on the words not in red.
<o> </o>
ਯਕ ਅਰਜ ਗੁਫਤਮ ਪੇਸਿ ਤੋ ਦਰ ਗੋਸ ਕੁਨ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥
ਹਕਾ ਕਬੀਰ ਕਰੀਮ ਤੂ ਬੇਐਬ ਪਰਵਦਗਾਰ ॥1॥
ਦੁਨੀਆ ਮੁਕਾਮੇ ਫਾਨੀ ਤਹਕੀਕ ਦਿਲ ਦਾਨੀ ॥
ਮਮ ਸਰ ਮੂਇ ਅਜਰਾਈਲ ਗਿਰਫਤਹ ਦਿਲ ਹੇਚਿ ਨ ਦਾਨੀ
॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਜਨ ਪਿਸਰ ਪਦਰ ਬਿਰਾਦਰਾਂ ਕਸ ਨੇਸ ਦਸਤੰਗੀਰ ॥
ਆਖਿਰ ਬਿਅਫਤਮ ਕਸ ਨ ਦਾਰਦ ਚੂੰ ਸਵਦ ਤਕਬੀਰ ॥2॥
ਸਬ ਰੋਜ ਗਸਤਮ ਦਰ ਹਵਾ ਕਰਦੇਮ ਬਦੀ ਖਿਆਲ ॥
ਗਾਹੇ ਨ ਨੇਕੀ ਕਾਰ ਕਰਦਮ ਮਮ ੲˆØੀ ਚਿਨੀ ਅਹਵਾਲ ॥3॥
ਬਦਬਖਤ ਹਮ ਚੁ ਬਖੀਲ ਗਾਫਿਲ ਬੇਨਜਰ ਬੇਬਾਕ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਬੁਗੋਯਦ ਜਨੁ ਤੁਰਾ ਤੇਰੇ ਚਾਕਰਾਂ ਪਾ ਖਾਕ ॥4॥1॥
<o> </o>
ਅਰਜ is actually ਅਰਜ਼, the pareen bindi, a dot at the bottom of letters was not used to differentiate the ‘z’ sound from the ‘j’ sound during Guru ji’s time hence it was written as in the Shabad. (The paireen Bindi was introduced by Panjabi scholars in late nineteenth century to cope with Farsi sounds.)This is a Farsi word borrowed by Panjabi and means request.
<o> </o>
ਤੋ is simplly the word for pronoun ‘you’ in English and is equivalent to ‘ਤੂੰ’ in Panjabi. In fact there should be assumed to be comma after this word because the first part of the line ending at this.
<o> </o>
ਦਰ is a Farsi preposition that means ‘in’, for instance the word ‘ਦਰਮਿਆਨ’ means in the middle because ‘mian’ means middle. Similarly word ‘ਦਰਅਸਲ’means ਅਸਲ ਵਿਚ.
<o> </o>
ਕਬੀਰ although we know it as the name of a Bhagat but it is an Arabic word derive d from Arabic root ਕਿਬਰ . ਕਬੀਰ means ‘great’. The word ‘Akbar’ also is derived from this root which also means ‘Great’. This is why in English history books Emperor Akbar is called ‘ Akbar The Great’ because his name was Jalaludin Akbar.
<o> </o>
ਕਰੀਮ is also an Arabic word borrowed by Farsi that means the entity that confers grace or ‘Karam’ or ‘mehar’ on humans, ie God.
<o> </o>
ਬੇਐਬ is also an Arabic word composed of a preposition ਬੇ meaning ‘without’ and ਐਬ a noun meaning bad habit. Other words we find in Panjabi and Hindi with this Arabic preposition are‘ਬੇਸ਼ਰਮ, ਬੇਅਦਬੀ, ਬੇਖੌਫ, ‘and ‘‘ਸ਼ਰਮ’, ‘ਅਦਬ’, ਖੌਫ are again Arabic words borrowed into Farsi and then into Indian languages.
<o> </o>
<o> </o>
ਪਰਵਦਗਾਰ is derived from the Farsi word ਪਰਵਰ that means to ‘bring up’ This word acts as a suffix in words such as ‘GharibParvar’ and ‘BandaPever’. This is the root word for the Farsi noun ‘Parvarish’ meaning the act of bringing up. Paradgar is shortened version of the word ‘Parvardgar’ meaning ‘He who brings up’ meaning God here.
<o> </o>
ਦੁਨੀਆ is a word that means ‘world’ as we know in Urdu, Panjbi and Hindustani originally of Arabic/Farsi roots.
<o> </o>
<o> </o>
ਦਿਲ again is a farsi word meaning ‘mind’ or in physical terms ‘heart’.
<o> </o>
ਦਾਨੀ is a Farsi word and derived from verb ‘Danistan’ meaning to understand. The bihari sign at the end of the word means it is being addressed to a second person. Therefore, it means ‘you understan’. it has nothing to do with the Hindu act of donation. So it does no mean a ‘donor’ as you might have assumed and left it from highlighting in red.
<o> </o>
ਮੂਇ is a Farsi word for hair. The phrase of three words ‘Mam sar mooi ‘ means ‘the hair of my head’ It does not mean ‘dead’ as you might have assumed it to be as a Panjabi word for being dead.
<o> </o>
ਅਜਰਾਈਲ is the name of ‘angel of death’ and is from the Abrahamic religions and a word from Arabic and Hebrew languages.
<o> </o>
ਬਿਰਾਦਰਾਂ is a plural noun and word for ‘brothers’ in English. It is not a Panjabi word. It shows the well-known closeness of Indo-Aryan languages where the names of family relations resembles in these languages. For instance word brother is as follows in different Indo-Aryan languages: Bhratr (Sanskrit), Bhrata (Hindi), Bhra (in Panjabi), Bruder ( in German), Brother (in English), Frater(in Latin, remember Fraternal for close cooperation organizations). Similarly in Farsi the language of Iran it is Brather, and Bradran is a plural.
<o> </o>
ਤਕਬੀਰ is a word derived from Arabic root ਕਿਬਰ from which word Kabir and Akbar are also derived. It means to praise God particularly at the death bed. That is to say ‘Allah hoo Akbar’ at death bed or similar phrases in Hiduism or other religions.
<o> </o>
ਸਬ ਰੋਜ is actually ਸ਼ਬ ਰੋਜ਼ the bottom dot, Pairee Bindee missing as mentioned above. It means day and night. Shab means night in Farsi and Roz means day.
<o> </o>
ਦਰ ਹਵਾ is a Farsi phrase meaning ‘in the air’ where ਦਰ means ‘in’ and ਹਵਾ means air..
<o> </o>
ਬਦੀ ਖਿਆਲ means ‘your bad thoughts. .‘ਬਦ in Farsi means bad and of course ਖਿਆਲ is a Farsi as well as Panjabi word. Badi, the bihari at the end makes it a word addressed to second person and meaning being yours.
<o> </o>
ਨ ਨੇਕੀ ਕਾਰ ਕਰਦਮ means (if) I don’t do pious actions. ਕਰਦਮ is derived from ਕਰਦ means do. The ਮ at the end makes it first person ‘I do’
<o> </o>
ਬਦਬਖਤ means having bad luck. The word ਬਦ as before means bad and ਬਖਤ means luck.
<o> </o>
ਬੇਨਜਰ is actually ਬੇਨਜ਼ਰ as the dot under ਜ to represent ਜ਼ sound in Guru Granth Sabib. ਬੇਨਜਰ here means without sight or blind ie devoid or spiritual insight.
<o> </o>
ਤੁਰਾ is combination of word ਤੁ and preposition ਰਾ. ਤੁ means you and ਰਾ specifically means ‘of’, with, etc. Combined together ਤੁਰਾ means ‘Yours’.
<o> </o>
ਚਾਕਰਾਂ is a plural of Farsi word ਚਾਕਰ/
<o> </o>
ਖਾਕ is a Farsi word that means soil or ‘Mitti’ in Panjabi.
<o> </o>
<o> </o>
In conclusion we see that this Shabad has 78 words in all. Out of these five words:
<o> </o>
ਕਰਤਾਰ, ਤੂ, ਰਹਾਉ, ਨਾਨਕ, ਤੇਰੇ alone are Panjabi words out of 78. The rest 73 in number or 93.6% are Farsi words that one can confirm by looking at and Farsi dictionary.
<o> </o>
Humbly
Serjinder Singh

 

[BhagatSingh]

Good to see someone actually analyzing the language in SGGS. Glad to have you on the forum Serjinder Singh ji.mundahug

Lot's of information condensed in your posts. Still trying to mine it out.