Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana - A Debate

[Archived_Member1]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

• Washing our Feet: KA criticizes the practice of washing our feet before entering Darbar Sahib or our Gurduara Sahibs.

Originally Posted by Randip Singh
Are we doing this for ritual reasons or practical? If for a ritual then agree with KA.

i think the vast majority of people wash their feet for the same reason they wash their hands, for the same reason we shower before our morning nitmen, for the same reason we do panj ishnaan before Rehras sahib. out of respect for Guru. what kind of respect does it show if we track dirty footprints all over the clean floor/sheets of the Gurdwara? and WHY make such an issue of it?

• Amrit Vela: KA states how can you call a particular time of the day Amrit-Vela when so many evil things happen around the world at that time.

Originally Posted by Randip Singh

Hmmm. Interesting point, but relative to where that person is it is Amrit-vela, but I can see his point.

so amrit vela is only relevant for some people in the world but not others? that seems discriminatory, which is certainly anti-gurmat. amrit vela is mentioned hundreds of times in SGGS... i thought you guys believed everything in SGGS?

• Baba Deep Singh Ji's memorial: KA argues against the need for a memorial for Baba Deep Singh Ji where Baba Ji's severed was laid to rest. He refers to this as idol worship. He questions even whether Baba Ji's severed head had fell at that particular place.

Originally Posted by Randip Singh

He's absolutely right on this. People do worship the place and bow to his photo. It has become idol worship. I have been there and I was disgusted with people behaviour.

is bowing or showing respect the same as idol worship? when we matha tek to SGGS are we worshiping Guru? i know i'm not...

in Sohila, Guru Ramdas tells us to bow before great saints. was Baba Deep Singh ji not a saint?


ਕਰਿ ਸਾਧੂ ਅੰਜੁਲੀ ਪੁਨੁ ਵਡਾ ਹੇ ॥ kar saaDhoo anjulee pun vadaa hay.
Greet the Holy Saint with your palms pressed together; this is an act of great merit.



ਕਰਿ ਡੰਡਉਤ ਪੁਨੁ ਵਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ kar dand-ut pun vadaa hay. ((1)) rahaa-o.
Bow down before Him; this is a virtuous action indeed. ((1)(Pause))

• Khanday-Batay-da-Amrit: KA questions the historical reference that (1)Amrit could revive the dead (the Panj Piarays).(2)Amrit could rid one of previous sins.(3)He states that this kind of belief will convince an Amritdharee to committ further sins.(4)He states that Guru Gobind Singh Ji never accepted the Panj as his Guru (Appay Guru Chella)(5)KA states that the reference to Guru Gobind Singh of reviving the Panj Piyarays after cutting their "sees" are pure lies.

Originally Posted by Randip Singh

I do not believe The Tenth Master killed the 5 beloved ones and revived them. So called eye witness accounts are unreliable (and there is only one I have heard of). This is miracle making. People have missed the whole point of what occurred at Basakhi all those years ago. All this businesses about reviving the dead is Vashnavite spin.

so instead you believe Guru ji did parlour tricks to fool the audience?

• Khanday-Batay da Amrit & Sweet Pittasay: KA states that to consider that sweet Pittasay were to be used in preparation of Amrit is a maha-Paap (enormous sin) since it implies that : (1) Dasam Patshah must have understood Naam-Amrit to be bitter. (2) Dasam Patshah had forgotten the Pittasay and his mistake was corrected by Mata Jito Jee. States that this Pittasay eposide is a myth and was made up by the enemies of this faith.

Originally Posted by Randip Singh

Whether Pittasay were used or not is immaterial. This is making a mountain out of a molehill, by KA and his detractors. It is what Amrit means that is important.

exactly. so why does he say it? why would it have anything to do with "enemies" of the faith?

• Khanday-Batay-da-Amrit & reviving of the Panj Piyaray & Shakti: KA ridicules the concept of Khanday-Batay-da-Amrit & reviving of the Panj Piaray & the divine powers (Shakti) of Amrit. He also referrs to Amrit-dharees as "Papian di Santaan" (offspring of sinners)

Originally Posted by Randip Singh

I don't believe they were revived from the dead since I do not belive our Guru's used any miracles whatsoever.

the janam sakhis, local legends, and the vaaran of Bhai Gurdas ji all describe miracles of the Gurus.

i've even experienced a miracle myself. : - ) or at least something completely unexplainable by me or by doctors.

• Charan-Amrit: KA ridicules that Sikh tradition of Charan-Amrit that existed until Khanday-Batay-da-Amrit replaced it in 1699. He refers to it as a Brahmanic ritual.

Originally Posted by Randip Singh

Charan Amrit is a Brahmanical ritual, but was replaced.

i wonder why our Gurus would do brahmanical rituals?

• Panj Piaray & Amritdharis: KA ridicules Panj Piaray & Amritdharis, tells story of a man who was so fed up with Amritdharis that he cut his Kes and never kept them again.

Originally Posted by Randip Singh

I feel like that about many Amritdhari’s.

about ALL amritdharis? there are bad apples in every bunch. it's not fair to criticize an entire group of people for the actions of a very few.

• Bhai Randhir Singh: Labels Bhai Randhir Singh as a "Bipree Agent" (an agent of the Brahmans)

Originally Posted by Randip Singh

Don’t know about Brahmin Agent but Bhai Randhir certainly had some Vashnavite leanings that sit very uncomfortably with Sikhism.

for example?

• Bhai Randhir Singh, Bhindranwale & others: Ridicules Bhai Randhir Singh, Bhindranwale, and other Mahapurakhs for having belief in Chitar-Gupt, Dharam-Raaj, Jums, Narak/Surag, and the afterworld.

Originally Posted by Randip Singh

I don’t belive in these things either. All Hindu concepts, nothing to do with Sikhism. They have some unwittingly Vashnavite leanings.

so why are they mentioned repeatedly in SGGS? were our Gurus Vashnavite?

• Khanday-Batay, Amrit & Mantar: States that the water put in a sarovar or bowl (Khanday-Batay) can never be called Amrit. Nor can anyone blow any Mantar (WaheGuru) in water and turn it into anything powerful (Amrit). He credits the Brahmans for creating such a belief.

Originally Posted by Randip Singh

I would want to see his reasoning behind this. I belive the original concept of Amrit as handed down by the 10th Master has been lost and it has some Brahmanical tinges nowadays.

what are the brahmanical tinges?

Whatever his deficiencies as a human being, Mr. Afghana has a talent for stirring the pot. That could be one reason why so many are antagonized by his behavior. I myself cannot tell if he is just looking for a fight, or actually wants to have a reciprocal exchange of views. And he doesn't have much patience with Hindus. So are his test questions sincere or not? Can a reasonably objective person be blamed for being suspicious if he/she can't tell if Mr. Afghana is testing established beliefs to get closer to the "truth" (with a small t) as he sees it, or is simply out to enjoy the thrill of target practice?

Originally Posted by Randip Singh

Don’t you find it ironic that KA criticises Brahmins so heavily yet he is a Brahmin RSS Agent?

not RSS, Congress. : - ) his point is to divide the panth, how better than to call respected Sikhs as hindus?

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

urge to read history and look at the evolvement of the Sikh faith and and see how many phases its has been through.

Trying to find historical support and support from Gurmat (or lack of support in Gurmat) when it finally hit me -- I might agree with him about something in fact or theory, but his arguments are only theoretically interesting. He is toying with people.

History is being presented left and right. There is NO historical or Gurmat support for Kala Afghana. There are scholars who along with him support the secularist view that basically Sikhism is a religion which contradicts science. Now what religious authority is ever going to allow those kinds of undermining debates in the form of a preacher writing books? Nobody. So why are all the Kala Afghana supporters upset? We have Sikh religion. We believe in Sikh religion. And the Panth has decided he is tankiya. He is free to write all the books he wants to... just not as a Sikh.

Many things have been alleged in support of KA. And in order to do this, people negate the authority of Akal Takht Sahib. People malign the credibility of newspapers which put KA in a bad light... just look at the title of this thread re: allegation of sexual abuse... Yet, it's a public lawsuit. KA was found guilty in court of abusing his role as a granthi in a Sikh Gurdwara and sexually battering a female who was there. Next case. No one is putting him down. He's putting himself down. If I was KA, I'd go crawl under a rock in shame.

If you really want to know WHY he did it.... Probably the fact that he doesn't believe in life after death, doesn't believe that Guru Nanak is a Guru, and thinks he can hide and get away with his actions while mascarading as a Sikh priest and missionary preacher. He is scandalous. that's why he's excommunicated.

Sexual battery, dening Gurbani, questioning, and bringing doubt about everything Sikhism believes ALL WHILE WEARING KHALSA BANA!
What an imposter! Indian Government agent for real. He worked for police. He was infiltrating Sant ji before Operation Bluestar and then went to Canadian communities and created all these mess.

To divide and conquer. That's why he did it.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

History is being presented left and right. There is NO historical or Gurmat support for Kala Afghana. There are scholars who along with him support the secularist view that basically Sikhism is a religion which contradicts science. Now what religious authority is ever going to allow those kinds of undermining debates in the form of a preacher writing books? Nobody. So why are all the Kala Afghana supporters upset? We have Sikh religion. We believe in Sikh religion. And the Panth has decided he is tankiya. He is free to write all the books he wants to... just not as a Sikh.

Many things have been alleged in support of KA. And in order to do this, people negate the authority of Akal Takht Sahib. People malign the credibility of newspapers which put KA in a bad light... just look at the title of this thread re: allegation of sexual abuse... Yet, it's a public lawsuit. KA was found guilty in court of abusing his role as a granthi in a Sikh Gurdwara and sexually battering a female who was there. Next case. No one is putting him down. He's putting himself down. If I was KA, I'd go crawl under a rock in shame.

If you really want to know WHY he did it.... Probably the fact that he doesn't believe in life after death, doesn't believe that Guru Nanak is a Guru, and thinks he can hide and get away with his actions while mascarading as a Sikh priest and missionary preacher. He is scandalous. that's why he's excommunicated.

Sexual battery, dening Gurbani, questioning, and bringing doubt about everything Sikhism believes ALL WHILE WEARING KHALSA BANA!
What an imposter! Indian Government agent for real. He worked for police. He was infiltrating Sant ji before Operation Bluestar and then went to Canadian communities and created all these mess.

To divide and conquer. That's why he did it.

Actually I don't care why he did it. He has created a mess -- His questions/ challenges are full of sound and fury signifying nothing - He is an impostor -- He is manipulating the conversation -- Yes, to divide and conquer -- Your conclusion sounds about right to me.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

It depends upon the extent of one's knowledge of scriptures and sikh hsitory to make one's opinion.gullible sikhs will be taken in easily by such people.

One has to see if kala afghana is right or not e.g. when he condemns sikh ardas.there you require knowledge and history of background of sikhism to rebut him.Traditions do not crop up suddenly.they have a background history.

Do you agree with him that beginning of ardas is a Hindu cencept(Refrence to Bhagauti) and sikhs should change their ardas?

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

• Jasleen Kaur Ji writes:

  • Bhai Randhir Singh, Bhindranwale & others: Ridicules Bhai Randhir Singh, Bhindranwale, and other Mahapurakhs for having belief in Chitar-Gupt, Dharam-Raaj, Jums, Narak/Surag, and the afterworld.

  [*]Aad0002 Ji writes:
  I don’t belive in these things either. All Hindu concepts, nothing to do with Sikhism. They have some unwittingly Vashnavite leanings.

I was drinking tea and you made me choke when I read that a moderator of a Sikh forum said that. Aad0002 panji... Do you believe in Gurbani? See, this is why people like Kala Afghana are so dangerous. They create confusion about Sikh teaching in a very reasonable way.

ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਗੁਪਤ ਕਾ ਕਾਗਦੁ ਫਾਰਿਆ ਜਮਦੂਤਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਚਲੀ ॥
chithr gupath kaa kaagadh faariaa jamadhoothaa kashhoo n chalee ||
The accounts of Chitr and Gupt, the recording scribes of the conscious and the subconscious are torn up, and the Messenger of Death cannot do anything.
~SGGS Ji p. 79​

ਰਵਿ ਕੇ ਸੁਤ ਕੋ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਤ੍ਰਾਸੁ ਕਹਾ ਜੁ ਚਰੰਨ ਗੁਰੂ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਵਤ ਹੈ ॥੩॥
rav kae suth ko thinh thraas kehaa j charann guroo chith laavath hai ||3||
Those who focus their consciousness on the Guru's Feet, they do not fear the judgement of Dharamraj. ||3||
~SGGS Ji p. 1404​

ਨਰਕੁ ਸੁਰਗੁ ਦੁਇ ਭੁੰਚਨਾ ਹੋਇ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਅਵਤਾਰ ॥੨॥
narak surag dhue bhunchanaa hoe bahur bahur avathaar ||2||
You are subject to both heaven and hell, and you are reincarnated over and over again. ||2||
~SGGS Ji p. 214​

ਐਥੈ ਧੰਧੁ ਪਿਟਾਈਐ ਸਚੁ ਲਿਖਤੁ ਪਰਵਾਨੁ ॥
aithhai dhhandhh pittaaeeai sach likhath paravaan ||
In this world, people are engrossed in false pursuits, but in the world hereafter, only the account of your true actions is accepted.
~SGGS Ji p. 21​

What kind of religion are people believing in when they don't accept Sikh teaching but still call themselves a Sikh? Clearly in Gurbani we see Guruji is teaching us about Chitr and Gupt, conscious and subconscious mind, Dharam-Raj, Jums or Jams and here Gurbani talks about the Jamdhoot, Narak-Surag or heaven, hell and reincarnation, and an afterworld. See only someone who thinks he has nothing to fear after death because nothing is there would challenge Gurbani this way as if this Kala Afghana was more authority than Guruji Himself!​

ਜਿਤੁ ਦਿਨਿ ਦੇਹ ਬਿਨਸਸੀ ਤਿਤੁ ਵੇਲੈ ਕਹਸਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੇਤੁ ॥
jith dhin dhaeh binasasee thith vaelai kehasan praeth ||
On that day when the body perishes-at that time, she becomes a ghost.​

ਪਕੜਿ ਚਲਾਇਨਿ ਦੂਤ ਜਮ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਦੇਨੀ ਭੇਤੁ ॥
pakarr chalaaein dhooth jam kisai n dhaenee bhaeth ||
The Messenger of Death seizes and holds her, and does not tell anyone his secret.
~SGGS Ji p. 134​

What kind of Sikhism doesn't believe in their own Guru? Nothing in Sikhism says nothing happens after death. Gurbani is very clear. And to all those sceptics and scientific types, these things are real. Let me show you something from a photo. I found these faces when I was examining a photo. I did not put those faces there. I also have many other photos. You may disbelieve, but there are realities beyond what the physical senses can perceive. I had a haunted house, and Gurbani kirtan caused the bhoots to leave. There are many people who have had these experiences which show Gurbani is not just words, but truth. Also I worked for a number of years as a nurse with dying people. And sometimes they would even talk about the other world before they died. So even not knowing Gurbani, I knew these experiences are real. The thing is, they can't be scientifically proven, so it remains a matter of faith and personal experience. I would hope, if we call ourselves Sikhs, disciples of Guruji, that at least we believe in what Guruji says. My great-grandmother was a spiritualist medium. Believe me, our family knows a lot about this kind of thing and has many experiences. The scientists who believe in nothing are going to be in for a big shock. And what this has to do with Brahmanism is beyond me. As for Vaishnava, We all know Sikhism was involving Vaishnav Bhakti and Muslim Sufi saints to create whole new religion.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

It depends upon the extent of one's knowledge of scriptures and sikh hsitory to make one's opinion.gullible sikhs will be taken in easily by such people.

One has to see if kala afghana is right or not e.g. when he condemns sikh ardas.there you require knowledge and history of background of sikhism to rebut him.Traditions do not crop up suddenly.they have a background history.

Do you agree with him that beginning of ardas is a Hindu cencept(Refrence to Bhagauti) and sikhs should change their ardas?

No I do not agree with KA. Sikhs should not change their Ardaas. Ardaas is a most important prayer. There is more to say than can be said in a few lines about the connections between references to Hindu gods and concepts in Gurbani and what these mean in the words of the Gurus.

This is an entire area of study, discussion and belongs in Gurmat Vichaar. It is as you say a topic that requires in-depth study and background knowledge.

It is KA's own ignorance of Sikhism that leads in part to his baseless claims. The other part is just wickedness-- he thinks he is clever using clever words -- in exactly the same way that Guruji warns us.

I thought I was clear. I don't agree with anything KA is saying. And in terms of the chronology, he was wrong before he was declared an apostate, and his wrong after he was declared an apostate. He is wrong having been convicted of sexual misconduct and his would still be wrong if he were a celibate. What I was trying to argue is that he fails to make his case logically and in terms of belief. And he is using his ex-communication and his conviction to make himself look persecuted. That is how he is misleading people.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

Harjas ji

I don't want to be quick to take offense, especially because I am not exactly clear in what you say. Leave it at this: it is impossible to draw me into an argument in which I feel obligated to defend my faith.

This is a forum not the SPN Inquisition of Heretics. If I am over-reacting. If you or Jasleen are not saying what I think you are saying, then you must point this out so that I can apologize publicly to you.

 

[Archived_Member1]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

Harjas ji

I don't want to be quick to take offense, especially because I am not exactly clear in what you say. Leave it at this: it is impossible to draw me into an argument in which I feel obligated to defend my faith.

This is a forum not the SPN Inquisition of Heretics. If I am over-reacting. If you or Jasleen are not saying what I think you are saying, then you must point this out so that I can apologize publicly to you.

um, what do you think i'm saying? sorry, i understand things better if they're stated clearly.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

So do I jasleen, when things are stated directly.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

<<<I don’t belive in these things either. All Hindu concepts, nothing to do with Sikhism. They have some unwittingly Vashnavite leanings>>>.

Aadoo2 ji

What is meant by above,Are you saying that soul ,reincarnation,theory of karma are Hindu concepts?Please clarify.

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

Randip Singh says:

"Taboban is a Sant Mat site. I am not a fan of Afghana, but I would not belive the nonsense at Tapoban for one second."

Randip Singh, why do you go around deliberately trying to make Gurmat sources seem untrustworthy, while arguing vehemently for the credibility of Kala Afghana? I've been posting to Tapoban forums for years and have friends who are associated with the Tapoban Singhs. They most certainly are NOT Sant Mat Radhasoami. They are Gurmat. By what desperate stretch of logic would dare make so unbelievable a slander against the Tapoban Singhs? To bolster your arguments in favor of Kala Afghana the apostate?

For anyone who has any doubt whatsoever, Tapoban is 100% Gurmat Gursikhi and is affiliated with the Panthic Jatha Akhand Kirtani Jatha (AKJ). Here is a link to their website as evidence they have zero affiliation with Sant Mat. It is preposterous even to allege. Why do you persist in making ugly rumors about Panthically affiliated groups such as Panthic Weekly, Tapoban, Damdami Taksal and AKJ? You have zero supportive evidence, and for a self-claimed historian, that looks pretty sad. You harm your own credibility this way veer ji. Why don't you stop.

Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib is dedicated to preserving and practicing Tat-Gurmat Maryada, the most pristine and original form of Sikhism. Gurdwara Tapoban Saahib strives to maintain a strict Khalsa rehit and conducts Akhand Keertan, the collective singing of hymns in front of Sree Guru Granth Saahib jee with active participation by the Sangat. True Khalsa rehits which are disappearing in the Panth are maintained at Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib including parkaash of Lareedaar Saroop of Sree Guru Granth Saahib jee and Sarbloh bibekee langar.

Tapoban.org

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

KA stands no chance against the Panj Pyare's Hukam at Sri Akaal Takht. He presented too many changes too soon. Not that I disagree with him completely, but people don't change their awareness so easily by reading a book. By demanding changes to strongly, not understanding the psychology of acceptance level, his own book back-fired on him.

Now that he's ex-communicated, his ego/revenge is the destructive force. More like a Plan B thing.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

The point is he knows nothing about Dasam granth.He was brought Fresno Gurudwara in 2002 to discuss the subject.he could not speak on it and ran away.

he was engaged in a discussion Baba Nihal singh ji.He was beating about the bush.Today i have posted two videos in this thread about this discussion.

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

The point is he knows nothing about Dasam granth.He was brought Fresno Gurudwara in 2002 to discuss the subject.he could not speak on it and ran away.

he was engaged in a discussion Baba Nihal singh ji.He was beating about the bush.Today i have posted two videos in this thread about this discussion.

Thank you Inder Singh Ji,

KA is not a preacher or lecturer, just opined on certain issues and complied them in a book/books. I'm not surprised he could not speak about it. Btw, KA is being given too much importance. Instead what we should be doing more in our lives is understanding what is Shabad Guru.

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

Harjas ji

I don't want to be quick to take offense, especially because I am not exactly clear in what you say. Leave it at this: it is impossible to draw me into an argument in which I feel obligated to defend my faith.

This is a forum not the SPN Inquisition of Heretics. If I am over-reacting. If you or Jasleen are not saying what I think you are saying, then you must point this out so that I can apologize publicly to you.

You don't owe me an apology. And this is a discussion forum not a witch hunt. I was addressing the quote from you which agreed with KA and denied Gurbani. 3 people in total have reposted your quote. For clarity I will repost it again. Because it is a rather important to publically make a comment denying Gurbani and calling it Hindu. Perhaps we were mistaken and you meant something else. Please clarify ji.

Jasleen Kaur Ji writes:

• Bhai Randhir Singh, Bhindranwale & others: Ridicules Bhai Randhir Singh, Bhindranwale, and other Mahapurakhs for having belief in Chitar-Gupt, Dharam-Raaj, Jums, Narak/Surag, and the afterworld.

Aad0002 Ji writes:
I don’t belive in these things either. All Hindu concepts, nothing to do with Sikhism. They have some unwittingly Vashnavite leanings.

"it is impossible to draw me into an argument in which I feel obligated to defend my faith." These comments are against Gurbani. You are entitled to your belief, but you should know people will challenge when you call Gurbani a Hindu concept that you don't believe in. Please explain to us what you meant. Or perhaps you didn't know this was Gurbani?

No offense please. But it's not entirely clear because you go on to say, "I thought I was clear. I don't agree with anything KA is saying." Yet you are agreeing with him against Gurbani and calling "Chitar-Gupt, Dharam-Raaj, Jums, Narak/Surag, and the afterworld,"Hindu concepts, nothing to do with Sikhism, yet they are written in Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. That is why we are a little surprised.

 

[pk70]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

Sangat jio
I am just wondering why so much importance is given to KA, the guy is a joke and completely exposed.
I dont see aad0002 has said any thing in favour of KA
Randip Singh ji was trying to agree or disagree with KA but I dont see he has any sympathy with KA
Peace please. A Joke should be taken as a joke.

 

[Archived_Member1]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

So do I jasleen, when things are stated directly.

you said:

"If you or Jasleen are not saying what I think you are saying, then you must point this out so that I can apologize publicly to you."

so state it directly please, what do you think i'm saying?

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

Read my comments about KA in their entirety once again. The problem has been solved.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

Inder ji

<<<I don’t belive in these things either. All Hindu concepts, nothing to do with Sikhism. They have some unwittingly Vashnavite leanings>>>.

Aadoo2 ji

What is meant by above,Are you saying that soul ,reincarnation,theory of karma are Hindu concepts?Please clarify.

This comment was made sometime back. May we should go back and take a look at that part of the thread to understand what I meant. Harjas ji, you actually had me believing that I said this, and I didn't say it. Joke is on me.

However, "soul" is not a concept that is unique to Sikhism, reincarnation and theory of karma do have Vashavite origins -- this should come as no surprise to you.

As for the statement I don’t belive in these things either. All Hindu concepts, nothing to do with Sikhism. They have some unwittingly Vashnavite leanings. Do you think I was saying that I did not believe in reincarnation and the theory of karma? I never said this Inder ji. This comment came from someone else.

And in an earlier post, in response to your question, I pointed out that their meanings in Sikhism depart radically from the original Hindu understanding of these terms.

Anyway, please accept my thanks for asking me to clarify right away a few posts back. It shows grace on your part, and I appreciate that.

P/S Inder ji -- Can you tell me the number of the post where I said all that above? I have gone 4 pages back and cannot find it. I would like to know for myself. If I get there first I will respond. Thanks again. I found the problem, and please read my response in Post 80.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.

Pk70 ji

You are a pretty level-headed person. So your comments add a measure of objectivity. I wonder also -- but to me it is pretty clear that KA has been able to create a lot of turmoil and dissension using arguments that are in my view without any merit.

Randip ji has been quietly encouraging a more dispassionate analysis of KA's arguments, certainly more dispassionate than I. I find nothing defensible in KA's claims. And that is why in the end the only conclusion that made sense to me was that he enjoys playing the role of a persecuted intellectual. And enjoys the friction he has created. That alone would make people angry -- if they feel they are being manipulated over matters of faith.