Guru And God No Difference

[BhagatSingh]

have you been reading this thread? there are several posts that show quotes from SGGS saying Guru is God.

why do we insist on putting limits on God? who are we to say what God can and cannot do? and how do you know Guru Nanak Dev ji died? moving from the physical body to another form is not necessarily death, is it?

In fact, it is death. But moving to another form... are you suggesting Guru Nanak moved to Guru Angad's body etc?

 

[Archived_Member1]

In fact, it is death. But moving to another form... are you suggesting Guru Nanak moved to Guru Angad's body etc?

isn't that the whole theory of Guru Gaddi? God's jot was passed from one Guru to the next. this is why we can call any of the gurus Nanak, right?

 

[AmbarDhara]

What is Jot?

 

[BhagatSingh]

Isn't that the whole theory of Guru Gaddi? God's jot was passed from one Guru to the next. this is why we can call any of the gurus Nanak, right?

1. So Guru Nanak was going through reincarnation, which stopped after Guru Gobind? Which means he wasn't liberated? Because when we are liberated we go beyond this cycle. This leads to the idea that this took Guru Nanak 10 births to finally be liberated...??
Then comes Guru Gobind Singh's so-called autobiography in Dasam Granth (now I dont think he wrote it but for those of you that think he did), he said he was sent by Akal Purakh to take birth again as Gobind Rai(formerly known as Dusht Duman) to get rid of the evil(or sumtin like that). This shows he wasn't Akal Purakh.

2. I personally thought sitting on Guru Gaddi meant you were a Guru not a God.
And that whole, Guru Nanak is God who came down to save people is hinduism/christianity not sikhism. It promotes idol worship as I can take a thali and start worshipping pictures of Guru Nanak(since he is God) rather than meditating on the TRUE NAAM. [Again that Dusht Duman to Gobind Rai rebirth ties in to the Hindu philosophy where Brahma(or anyone) goes to Vishnu(the sustainer) to save the earth and Vishnu incarnates as various creatures to do stuff. ]

3. Let's for a second assume that Gurus were God, they why would they tell us not to worship them, but to meditate on the One True Almighty? Why would they just not tell us they were God so we would just think about them? Because God has no form so thinking about him is quite a challenge. Trying to picture something abstract is next to impossible. Its like getting someone to picture a 4th dimensional world.

4. Personally, when I try to picture God my mind goes blank. When I meditate, I try to keep my mind in this state and try to think of nothing. It is quite hard for me( as I tend to think alot), but the results are quite refreshing.

 

[AmbarDhara]

Let's for a second assume that Gurus were God, they why would they tell us not to worship them, but to meditate on the One True Almighty?

Because they are Almighty. Body is not Guru. Guru is Almighty and Almighty is Guru.

 

[Archived_Member1]

1. So Guru Nanak was going through reincarnation, which stopped after Guru Gobind? Which means he wasn't liberated? Because when we are liberated we go beyond this cycle. This leads to the idea that this took Guru Nanak 10 births to finally be liberated...??

i never said this. passing jot (light of god) from one body to the next is not the same as reincarnation.

Then comes Guru Gobind Singh's so-called autobiography in Dasam Granth (now I dont think he wrote it but for those of you that think he did), he said he was sent by Akal Purakh to take birth again as Gobind Rai(formerly known as Dusht Duman) to get rid of the evil(or sumtin like that). This shows he wasn't Akal Purakh.

how can you use something you don't believe as an argument?

2. I personally thought sitting on Guru Gaddi meant you were a Guru not a God.
And that whole, Guru Nanak is God who came down to save people is hinduism/christianity not sikhism. It promotes idol worship as I can take a thali and start worshipping pictures of Guru Nanak(since he is God) rather than meditating on the TRUE NAAM. [Again that Dusht Duman to Gobind Rai rebirth ties in to the Hindu philosophy where Brahma(or anyone) goes to Vishnu(the sustainer) to save the earth and Vishnu incarnates as various creatures to do stuff. ]

i don't think anyone is suggesting that we worship guru... we're only supposed to worship god as "nirankar" or formless. does that mean god can't take whatever form god wants? i don't think so. i don't like to put limits on god.

4. Personally, when I try to picture God my mind goes blank. When I meditate, I try to keep my mind in this state and try to think of nothing. It is quite hard for me( as I tend to think alot), but the results are quite refreshing.

this is buddhist style meditation. i learned it in thailand and used to practice it for years, but it's kind of empty feeling to me. but hey, if it works for you, that's great.

i have been taught to use naam simran (repetition of god's name - any of them) or mool mantar for meditation, it works pretty well for me.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Because they are Almighty. Body is not Guru. Guru is Almighty and Almighty is Guru.

SO their soul is God? Yes SGGS says we all have God in us. Therefore I am God as well. Not my body but my soul.

 

[AmbarDhara]

I like this thread. This thread will make our belief strong in the One and Only One.

God and Guru no difference.

 

[Archived_Member1]

What is Jot?

is this a rhetorical question?

jot is light. in the context of Guru, it's the "light of God". it represents divinity.

 

[Archived_Member1]

SO their soul is God? Yes SGGS says we all have God in us. Therefore I am God as well. Not my body but my soul.

ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਹੈ ਸੋਇ ॥ sabh meh jot jot hai so-ay.
Amongst all is the Light-You are that Light.



ਤਿਸ ਦੈ ਚਾਨਣਿ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ tis dai chaanan sabh meh chaanan ho-ay.
By this Illumination, that Light shines within all.



ਗੁਰ ਸਾਖੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ gur saakhee jot pargat ho-ay.
Through the Guru's Teachings, the Light shines forth.

 

[AmbarDhara]

Thankyou Jasleen Kaur, can i make a request, please. Canyou please give me link to a reliable website that has SGGS Ji's Translations. I will be grateful.

I want to post a lot of Gurbani(with Translations) for everybody's convenience. ThankYou

 

[BhagatSingh]

i never said this. passing jot (light of god) from one body to the next is not the same as reincarnation.

Then what is the difference? Isnt reincarnation the moving of a soul from one body to another?

how can you use something you don't believe as an argument?

Because I am open minded and I might start to believe it if it is convincing enough.

i don't think anyone is suggesting that we worship guru... we're only supposed to worship god as "nirankar" or formless. does that mean god can't take whatever form god wants? i don't think so. i don't like to put limits on god.

God can take a billion forms but saying that the Gurus have God in them and we don't is unfair! We all do! Like gurbani says our minds are temples and place for God. This does not mean that we ARE God. SAme goes for the Gurus.
hehe you cannot put limits on God even if you want to. Infinity has no limits!

this is buddhist style meditation. i learned it in thailand and used to practice it for years, but it's kind of empty feeling to me. but hey, if it works for you, that's great.

I didn't know that acutally. I just try to picture God and nothing else. If nothing appears there(in mind) as God then nothing is what I meditate on and I guess it makes sense, since God is nirankar meanning without attributes, in other words nothing. He/She is nothing(no attributes) and He/She is everything(all attributes)! That is the most fascinating thing about God!

i have been taught to use naam simran (repetition of god's name - any of them) or mool mantar for meditation, it works pretty well for me.

Yes I used to do that but it gets very distracting for me, I start to think more of other things.

BTW could anyone show me where SGGS says that repitition of God's name is worthwhile? And is it how many times to repeat or what????

 

[AmbarDhara]

guru prmysru eyko jwxu ] (864-9, goNf, mÚ 5)
gur parmaysar ayko jaan.
Know that the Guru and the Transcendent Lord are One.
jo iqsu BwvY so prvwxu ]1] rhwau ] (864-9, goNf, mÚ 5)
jo tis bhaavai so parvaan. ||1|| rahaa-o.
Whatever pleases Him is acceptable and approved. ||1||Pause||

SGGS Ji is great.

 

[BhagatSingh]

ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਹੈ ਸੋਇ ॥ sabh meh jot jot hai so-ay.
Amongst all is the Light-You are that Light.



ਤਿਸ ਦੈ ਚਾਨਣਿ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ tis dai chaanan sabh meh chaanan ho-ay.
By this Illumination, that Light shines within all.



ਗੁਰ ਸਾਖੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ gur saakhee jot pargat ho-ay.
Through the Guru's Teachings, the Light shines forth.

So ur saying everyone's got God and not the Gurus in a special case?
So we got this cleared up.Good. This is what I kept saying to Surinder Ji and she kept taking it as an insult and started insulting me back!

 

[BhagatSingh]

I like this thread. This thread will make our belief strong in the One and Only One.

Agreed!

 

[AmbarDhara]

Sabh kich Ghar men Bahar Naahi............. Bahar Tole Jo Bharam Bhulaaeen

I dont see Surinder kaur insulting you Bhagat, I think you are just prejudice, because she speaks what SGGS Ji is saying.

 

[BhagatSingh]

I dont see Surinder kaur insulting you Bhagat, I think you are just prejudice, because she speaks what SGGS Ji is saying.

Not in that post she wasnt. YOu dont know the half of it! She called me Fake Baba Follower, pakhandee, and I forgot what else. Read everything she has said! She even insulted me in other posts! All for saying if Guru has God then so do we! Going with the concept ALL is God.

 

[AmbarDhara]

This is a Gurbani Vichar Section. Gurbani should be contemplated here. If someone thinks opposite to Gurbani, there I see more Sections like Hard Talk or Interfaith Talk kind.

 

[AmbarDhara]

I read her saying that All is God- so everybody included, infact her statements show that everything is God, not just humans.

I am afraid you have read her wrong.

 

[BhagatSingh]

I dont see Surinder kaur insulting you Bhagat, I think you are just prejudice, because she speaks what SGGS Ji is saying.

I think you all think I am prejudiced, therefore you dont give me contructive answers and start insulting me. Not good for Sikhs!
I thank JAsleen Kaur for having a mature discussion with me!