Guru And God No Difference

[Archived_Member1]

Thanks Jasleen. That makes sense. But when you say "Guru" and God are one, are you talking about Guru Nanak, the man, or what the SGGS calls just plain Guru? One of the first questions I asked in this forum was if Sikhs worship the Gurus, as in the Nanaks. The answer was a resounding, "no" Sikhs do not worship Gurus as God because there is only one God and the Gurus were sent by him as messenger.

One thing about this board -- it certainly shows the philosophical differences within Sikhi.

Guess that's true of all faiths.

Again, I mean no disrespect. And thanks for the explanation.

some people say that Guru and God are one. Guru is God, Gurbani is God, but we only worship God as Akaal (without form). No man can be called God, but God is in every man.

others emphasize the "separateness" of man from God... i don't think this is accurate in Sikhi. ideally, when we realize God, we will understand that god is everything and without god there is nothing... "sabh gobind hai, sabh gobind hai, gobind bin nahi koe"

i'm having a really difficult time putting it into words.

i suggest reading over the first few pages of the discussion again, as there are a lot of great shabads there which explain things better than i can.

 

[AmbarDhara]

When we say: Guru is God.

Guru and God are not two different things.

Guru is not a human lost in I me mera mine whatever.

Guru is ONE WITH GOD, where there is no difference left. A point where there is no going back to the Iness again.

We have 11 Gurus.
10 of them, people saw in human bodies, 1 of them people see in Scripture form. Lovingly all are called Nanak. (I say 'people saw' as their true devotees dont see them as a body form, devotees see them as infinite).

Are all those Gurus seperate entities? FOR HISTORIENS AND SCHOLARS yes or, may be yes or, may be not. But for a Bhagat, Guru's word is everything, Bhagat doesn't go after what historians are writting. He she goes after what Guru is telling him her.

Was Nanak not present 600 years before? He Was present my dear, Jot Sarup was here, is here, will be here- Deathless, Ajooni.

Guru Arjan Dev Ji: Ang#250
The Divine Guru is the True Guru, the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord; Nanak bows in humble reverence to the Lord, the Divine Guru. ||1||

In Guru Granth Sahib no stories or birth or death dates and stories are recorded. Because a God Oriented person has nothing to do with them. Guru ji never recorded that a brahmgyani is born. BUT Guru Ji DO TELL US- BRAHMGYANI SARIST KA KARTA, BRAHMGYANI KA NAHI BINAAS(God Oriented is the Creator, God Oriented never dies). Multiple times we are told, there is no distinction between God and the God Oriented.



All 11 are Guru- THE SAME ONE GURU- NOT A SEPERATE ENTITY FROM NIRANKAAR.

 

[Astroboy]

But in the poetic form he is "giving voice" to the helplessness of the rest of us. Showing us in verse what our own predicaments are. Maybe "speaking out for us."

Wow, the feeling to express this has always been there but to put it in words takes alot more. Wow aad Ji.

 

[spnadmin]

The bhagat Kal sings praises to Guru Naanak in the Sava-yay on Ang 1389 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. The bhagats were Hindu devotees but of devotion to One God. Their way was the way of bakhti or ecstatic devotion. So we see metaphors from Vendantic tradition in these verses. But the message is consistent throughout Guruji. Meditate single-mindedly on the Primal Lord. All beings of devotion and heroes of the Lord's way sing his praises because he is filled with the sublime essence of the Lord. The shabad tells us that He Naanak is the Avatar the Incarnation of the Infinite Lord.

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ik oankaar sathigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

10 ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਧਿਆਇ ਬਰਦਾਤਾ ॥
eik man purakh dhhiaae baradhaathaa ||
Meditate single-mindedly on the Primal Lord God, the Bestower of blessings.


ਸੰਤ ਸਹਾਰੁ ਸਦਾ ਬਿਖਿਆਤਾ ॥
santh sehaar sadhaa bikhiaathaa ||
He is the Helper and Support of the Saints, manifest forever.

l ਤਾਸੁ ਚਰਨ ਲੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸਾਵਉ ॥
thaas charan lae ridhai basaavo ||
Grasp His Feet and enshrine them in your heart.


ਤਉ ਪਰਮ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਵਉ ॥੧॥
tho param guroo naanak gun gaavo ||1||
Then, let us sing the Glorious Praises of the most exalted Guru Nanak. ||1||



ਗਾਵਉ ਗੁਨ ਪਰਮ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ ਦੁਰਤ ਨਿਵਾਰਣ ਸਬਦ ਸਰੇ ॥
gaavo gun param guroo sukh saagar dhurath nivaaran sabadh sarae ||
I sing the Glorious Praises of the most exalted Guru Nanak, the Ocean of peace, the Eradicator of sins, the sacred pool of the Shabad, the Word of God.

ਗਾਵਹਿ ਗੰਭੀਰ ਧੀਰ ਮਤਿ ਸਾਗਰ ਜੋਗੀ ਜੰਗਮ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਧਰੇ ॥
gaavehi ganbheer dhheer math saagar jogee jangam dhhiaan dhharae ||
The beings of deep and profound understanding, oceans of wisdom, sing of Him; the Yogis and wandering hermits meditate on Him.

ਾਵਹਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰਾਦਿ ਭਗਤ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦਿਕ ਆਤਮ ਰਸੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਾਣਿਓ ॥
gaavehi eindhraadh bhagath prehilaadhik aatham ras jin jaaniou ||
Indra and devotees like Prahlaad, who know the joy of the soul, sing of Him.

ਕਬਿ ਕਲ ਸੁਜਸੁ ਗਾਵਉ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਜੁ ਜੋਗੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਮਾਣਿਓ ॥੨॥
kab kal sujas gaavo gur naanak raaj jog jin maaniou ||2||
KAL the poet sings the Sublime Praises of Guru Nanak, who enjoys mastery of Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. ||2||

ਗਾਵਹਿ ਜਨਕਾਦਿ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਜੋਗੇਸੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਰਸ ਪੂਰਨ ਸਰਬ ਕਲਾ ॥
gaavehi janakaadh jugath jogaesur har ras pooran sarab kalaa ||
King Janak and the great Yogic heroes of the Lord's Way, sing the Praises of the All-powerful Primal Being, filled with the sublime essence of the Lord.


ਗਾਵਹਿ ਸਨਕਾਦਿ ਸਾਧ ਸਿਧਾਦਿਕ ਮੁਨਿ ਜਨ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਅਛਲ ਛਲਾ ॥
gaavehi sanakaadh saadhh sidhhaadhik mun jan gaavehi ashhal shhalaa ||
Sanak and Brahma's sons, the Saadhus and Siddhas, the silent sages and humble servants of the Lord sing the Praises of Guru Nanak, who cannot be deceived by the great deceiver.


ਗਾਵੈ ਗੁਣ ਧੋਮੁ ਅਟਲ ਮੰਡਲਵੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਭਾਇ ਰਸੁ ਜਾਣਿਓ ॥
gaavai gun dhhom attal manddalavai bhagath bhaae ras jaaniou ||
Dhoma the seer and Dhroo, whose realm is unmoving, sing the Glorious Praises of Guru Nanak, who knows the ecstasy of loving devotional worship.



ਕਬਿ ਕਲ ਸੁਜਸੁ ਗਾਵਉ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਜੁ ਜੋਗੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਮਾਣਿਓ ॥੩॥
kab kal sujas gaavo gur naanak raaj jog jin maaniou ||3||
KAL the poet sings the Sublime Praises of Guru Nanak, who enjoys mastery of Raja Yoga. ||3||


ਗਾਵਹਿ ਕਪਿਲਾਦਿ ਆਦਿ ਜੋਗੇਸੁਰ ਅਪਰੰਪਰ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਵਰੋ ॥
gaavehi kapilaadh aadh jogaesur aparanpar avathaar varo ||
Kapila and the other Yogis sing of Guru Nanak. He is the Avataar, the Incarnation of the Infinite Lord.

 

[Pyramid]

Cyber Sangat Ji,

Following are a few lines from a post from another thread. Ambar Dhara explained a few things which I thought will be relevant to what is being disscussed here as well.


Bhagti: Unshakable faith in Guru.
"The term 'Guru' is described very many ways in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the reason being is - Guru is infinite, One cant point to just one line and say that- why Guru didn't say this here, why He said this here. Believe in one, and disbelieve in the other. This attitude is not bhagti. A bhagat believs in each and every WORD of his her GURU, Bhagat bows in front of Guru. And let the Guru take care of the rest. Bhagat sings every word of His Her Guru.

A common saying is: Je Guru Kahe din ta din, Je Guru Kahe Raat ta Raat.
(If guru says it is day, it is day. If Guru says it is night, it is night). Bhagat doesnt look for : is it day or night, he she look for What Guru says. One has to leave his her own understanding out of the way. Bhagti is complete surrender. If I sing opposite to what Guru is singing: I will be acting as a Manmukh.

And Guru is saying Gur Parmesar Eko Jaan, Gur Parmesar Naahi Bhed, Brahmgyani sarisht Ka Karta.(Understand that Guru and God are ONE, There is no distinction between Guru and God, God Oriented is the Creator of the Universe).

Guru Granth Sahib Ji's EVERY LINE IS GURU. "


Practice of Humility:
"This Question: Why Guru didnt add a literal line-"I am God"; but said that "Guru is God".

To me moor, it teaches me to be utmost humble, don't boast of any achievements. If one is reading Gurbani carefully, can find this: If some one calls himself or herself a 'GURU' - cant be a Guru, beware of such a person.

Humilty and considering one self the lowest: is the recognition of a Saintly soul. apas ko jo jaaney neecha soi ganeeay sabh te oocha(the one who consider himself herself the lowest, is the highest of all).

Thanks a lot for bringing me moor close to Guru Ji."

Thanks Ambar.

Tuhada Das
Yograj

 

[Daanveer]

Amabar's posts remind me of dear Surinder. I miss her.

 

[Daanveer]

DaanVeer Ji,

Gurbani tells us that whenever anybody will say the Word of God loudly, it is going to hurt the non believers(manmukhs), and they will oppose. The inner koor cant let them hear(believe) Gurbani, Naam, GurShabad.
Live Example here.

As you say, this happens to strenghthen our belief. I take it as a medicine/tonic/therapy. I read through it every once in a while. Boot Camp Experience.

I think this thread is a very good read.

May God Bless all.
Let us pray for Sarbat Da Bhalaa

boot camp

 

[Daanveer]

i agree... another example would be when Guru ji describes himself as the "lowest of the low". now obviously we don't think of Guru as the lowest of the low... but he's showing us that no matter how low we are (or we feel we are), we can still experience God.

Jasleen Kaur Ji,

I love the picture of khanda and Dastaar.

Guru Ji has given us an example here:
He is calling Himself low, so what we should do?
Call ourselves even lower than that.

Everytime I read Paatth, I read Guru addressing Himself as lowly, my tears start flowing, I dont know why? Can somebody help?

Thanks

 

[Archived_Member1]

Jasleen Kaur Ji,

I love the picture of khanda and Dastaar.

Guru Ji has given us an example here:
He is calling Himself low, so what we should do?
Call ourselves even lower than that.

Everytime I read Paatth, I read Guru addressing Himself as lowly, my tears start flowing, I dont know why? Can somebody help?

Thanks

thank you.

there are certain shabads that make me cry too... i don't think it needs to be helped though. tears are just another expression of love for Guru/God.

 

[spnadmin]

Jasleen Kaur Ji,

I love the picture of khanda and Dastaar.

Guru Ji has given us an example here:
He is calling Himself low, so what we should do?
Call ourselves even lower than that.

Everytime I read Paatth, I read Guru addressing Himself as lowly, my tears start flowing, I dont know why? Can somebody help?

Thanks

There is an expression -- I am so happy I am close to tears.... or I could cry (another version of same). Or, I was laughing so hard that I cried. Sounds like a contradiction. Look at it this way. Gurbani talks about a moment when dust and gold look the same, when the distinctions of positive and negative emerge. It is the same thing here. All the intense emotions merge into one because you are so filled with appreciation of Guruji's message. You don't need help.:}{}{}:

 

[Daanveer]

thank you.

there are certain shabads that make me cry too... i don't think it needs to be helped though. tears are just another expression of love for Guru/God.

Thankyou Jasleen Kaur Ji.

 

[Daanveer]

There is an expression -- I am so happy I am close to tears.... or I could cry (another version of same). Or, I was laughing so hard that I cried. Sounds like a contradiction. Look at it this way. Gurbani talks about a moment when dust and gold look the same, when the distinctions of positive and negative emerge. It is the same thing here. All the intense emotions merge into one because you are so filled with appreciation of Guruji's message. You don't need help.:}{}{}:

Thankyou Aad Ji,

I think I am getting it now. You explained it really good. Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou.

 

[spnadmin]

You are welcome I think.

But I made a mistake -- I meant to say, when distinctions between positive and negative "merge" not "emerge" The distinctions are eliminated. Sorry. The point was opposites come together.

 

[Daanveer]

You are welcome I think.

But I made a mistake -- I meant to say, when distinctions between positive and negative "merge" not "emerge" The distinctions are eliminated. Sorry. The point was opposites come together.

You said before: "****negative emerge. It is the same thing here. All the intense emotions merge into one *****"

Your second merge indicated that there was a spelling error before. I am a language teacher, could easily guess clearly the meaning of what you wrote.

Thanks again.

 

[spnadmin]

Thank you for being a good reader of faulty information.

 

[jb20000]

There is no difference between Guru Nanak & God.

Guru Nanak is God, God Is Guru nanak.

Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Tu Hi Nirankar.

God & Guru is the SAME!!!

We have Guru Granth Sahib ji...God with us.

Wjkk,wjkf

 

[Ambarsaria]

Very simple if one were to make it.

• God/Creator
  • Is "One"
    
  • Embodied in all including the Gurus and each and everyone of us
  • Gurus had the same God in them that is in the Sikhs or non-Sikhs or other creatures, life, creation, etc.

• Guru
  • A teacher
  • A leader that helps you understand
  • Example:
    • Guru Granth Sahib ji helps you understand God/Creator
    • Guru's taught many things including the creation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to help us understand creation/God, practical living, saving us from superstitions, wrong methods or rituals to so called find God, etc.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[insearchofpeace]

I always believed that as God is in everyone, every creature and even in the sand particles, everywhere inside out, I believe that( I might be wrong) God came and gave His message of Love in the form of GURU...So GOD is GURU and GURU is GOD, no difference.
I sometimes give myself the example that as a mother who is a teacher too, so at school her son calls her teacher but at home he calls her mother, but both mother and teacher are the same.
Please correct me where I am wrong.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Guru is a teacher.

What he teaches about is God. Of course God is in the Gurus as much as in you. Just as you won't like to be called God our Gurus insisted and asked people not to call them God either. Instead they wanted to be treated as one of us.

Yes, in Sikhism God is everywhere and in everything as of one creation.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

It is easily understandable that in Western Philosophies the word GOD is used for the Creator of the Universe.
The Sikh philosophy is fundamentally from SGGS .From Gurbaani we come to know that the Creator of the universe is being refered to a SYSTEM and this isto be known as GuR more specifically as GuRU GuR.and this SYSTEM is also being denoted by the very first SYMBOL in SGGS.
Thus there is no evidence in SGGS whereby we can conclude that the Creator is being refered by the word GOD.
The GOD as Creator being refered in western philosophies can not be known . Where as the Creator as being refered in Gurbaani can be known.
This should be important to understandwith respect to Sikh philosophy as given in SGGS.

Prakash.S.Bagga