Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet?

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Muslim,

Whats does Prophet called in Arabic?

What IS a prophet according to Islam?

How does one become a prophet in Islam?

What are the duties and responsibilities of the prophet in Islam?

Is Prophet allowed to marry a 7 yr old girl as Mohammed allegedly did?



Once we understand the true meaning of prophet according to Islam, then we can discuss about Guru Nanak and why he refused to call himself anything but a mere mortal.

Tejwant.

 

[BabbarSher]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

The point is that you just cant come around and start babbling whatever you want to..

If you criticise othre religions on false pretexts, be ready to listen to criticism based on facts abuut your lovely religion.

Anyway, quite some time back, I used to do a lot of reserach on Islam by reading books and trying to find out what it truly stands for. I wrote quite a bit, but then thought whats the point in criticising......but u know what, you have just set a chain in motion and now you will find a lot of posts supported by quotes from Quran and Hadith. Dont run away from this forum and answer them.

And please, just like you muslims make D'aawah to proove trueness of islam and falsenes of other religions, have the guts to say that if we proove that Islam is full of falacies, you would be ready to convert to any other religion.......or are u afraid your beloved Mullah ji will pass a fatwa againts you and you may find fanatics running after you.

On a different note, guys, if you wanna laugh, there is a new comedy program on QTV -by Zakir Naik .,,,and Indian Muslims where he takes the questions from muslims and non-muslims and answers them. Some samples from yesterdays program:

Q1: Muslims look down upon non-muslims and call them Kaafir in a derogatory manner....where is the muslim brotherhood and tolerance in this.

The honourable crook, Mr. Naik elaborated upon the root of the word Kufr and said that the root of this word in arabic means 'nonbeliever' Fair enough, but what the venerable person did not say what this nonbelief was - was it no belief in God or non belief in the Prophet.. ? He took an easier turn here and said it meant non-belief in islam, and if one doesnt like being called Kaafir he should convert to Islam .. and started smirking and laughing

wow, what a solution and thought process. Rather than addressing the question as to why muslims look at all non mulsims in a derogatory manner and call them Kaafir, he acts like one

Q2: Why do muslims object when a muslim girl marries a non-muslim boy and where is the concept of muslim brother hood in this

Dear Naik changed the language of question by restating it as follows: a muslim person marriage to a non-muslim person (boy and girl replaced by person) ..

He totally evaded the question..

and then elaborated upon a car tyre and a truck tyre analogy.. what he forgot was thet religions could easily be changed and just as a non-muslim can become a muslim, it should be possible under the concept of Universal brotherhood that he was so much elaborating upon, a muslim to become a non-muslim...

The hypocrisy and sadist tendencies of muslim world particularly arab are further highlighted by thr amount of aid they are promising or giving to Tsunami victims... they can spend millions and billions for supplying arms to terror groups ..but not for supplying food to poor and starving people.

shame shame shame ..

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

>>>>
..


I look forward to the day Islam is the worlds biggest religion and Sikhism dies out, cos face it man like you said your women are embracing islam and leaving sikhi, people are loosing their 5k's and no one really attends your guduwaras.

EXACT WORDS of AURENGZEB to Guru Teg Bahadur when he wanted to "forvibly convert everyone to islam through the SWORD...GURU JI replied" Aurenga..you want to make ONE religion..MY SIKHS will Make THREE..and Where is AURENGZEB "the GREAT" now ?? Ever visited His GRAVE ?? Apart from a few Muslim BEGGARS sitting on it begging passers by for alms...no body....ever Visited HAZOOR SAHIB....in memeory of GURU GOBIND SINGH...MILLIONS of people visit and Millions of Charrawa/Golak is MATHA TEK by those SIKHS that AURENGZEB wanted dead and gone...

You people are all Fake and Hypocrites...just see how you all MUSLIMS help the Muslim nation of INDONESIA whose hundreds of thousands were washed away in a tsunami.... the MISERABLE help by MUSLIM NATIONS...claim to be "richest" NATIONS OIL RICH ETC...GAVE nothing IN COMAPRISON TO usa/europe.... ETC AND EVEN THE sikhs HAVE SUCH A BIG PRESENCE IN THE aid movement IN ACHEH......A FEW THOUSAND SIKHS CAN SEND TEAMS OF VOLUNTEERS..but the MUSLIM Millions, "biggest religion in the world" cant spare a few pounds/dollars ??? not a single OIC leader came to Acheh ?? Singapore a chinese country collected MORE than many many muslim nations... so typical of the Beggars on the Grave of Aurengzeb .. Stop DREAMING.

This is a MATURE FORUM...if you behave mature...we are all mature....if anyone tries to be childish...we know how to respond in kind.:u):

jarnail singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Hi dear muslim, ok then what happens next ?

This is what happens even when Islam is NOT the biggest religion..

TWO reports from a "muslim country" that is Liberal (islamic style) and leader of the OIC....even here we have trouble with the "muslim radicals like mulsim/jinni etc..

see attached files which are newspaper reports from malaysia's Largest Newspaper.

Even Muslims are questioning what "muslim" and Jinn are preaching.


jarnail singh

 

[Neutral Singh]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Gyani Ji, this is really a depressing development, at the one hand they are hell bent on converting all kafirs to islam but this is how they treat their fellow muslims... not even a word of compassion ??

i feel that introspection has initiated in minds of true muslims also otherwise i am really surprised to read this from the keyboard of a muslim scholar...

Thanks for sharing the important piece of information.

Regards

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Yesterday 29th january, we had on malaysian National TV NTV7 Network a special One Hour Programme which highlighted the tremendous HUMANITARIAN MISSION led by the GLOBAL SIKHS- WAVES OF MERCY to Acheh. There were Doctors, tons of Medicines and over 30 tons of Food with this Mission of SIKHS..many of them YOUNGSTERS from MALAYSIA led by the Sikh naujawan Sabha SNSM who spent two weeks in the most devastated area of Acheh where every single house and building was wiped out..and many children were made orphans. IT was HEARTWARMING....and the REPORTER/PRESENTER himself was TEARY EYED when showing how the Locals (ALL MUSLIMS) greeted these SIKHS coming to them with FOOD ( after weeks without any food), mineral water, medicines, tents clothes..a GENUINE HUMANITARIAN effort proving Sikhism's message of Brotherhood of man is alive and well.

A SECOND TEAM of Global Sikhs waves of Mercy has left for Acheh while the first has retrned to rest and recuperate.

This is all in the Hukm of Waheguru....as long as His Will Prevails.. SIKHI will Survive adn there will be HOPE for the World to live in Peace. ONE RELIGION for ALL is a pipe dream and will remain just that.


Jarnail Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

In this attached message the President of the Malaysian Consultative Council of Non Muslim Religions Malaysia speaks to the Local Press on Problems that face the Non-Muslims. The Malaysian Federal Constitution GUARANTEES the Freedom of Religion....But slowly and surely these "freeeodms" are being hijacked....and eroded..

NOTE: The MESSAGE immediately BELOW this one is actually the TITLE PAGE. Please READ that message First and then continue (where it says Contd. on PAGE 10..) .from the beginning of THIS ONE. Sorry for the Mix up.

Open the Attachment for the Beginning of this article published in the SUN daily today 29th january 2005..in the Message taht follows this one.
The remainder text is below:

V. HARCHARAN SINGH President of the Malaysian Consultative Coun cil on Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism and SIkhism...speaks to the Malaysian Press on Religious "tolerance" in MALAYSIAN CONTEXT..
read on:...

Page 10. Continued from previous message..

We are not happy about the word `tolerance', because tolerance is only temporary and negative. You tolerate for some time... but you are not desiring it and do not want it. What we really need is religious under- standing and





Attitudes and condemning others. We have seen actual cases where this kind of raids have produced very negative attitudes among the very people whom they are trying to correct and those people who think themselves self-righteous and appoint themselves the guardians of people's morals have also been involved in these kinds of things.

This is a human problem. The Council is against this. Whatever education is to be given on this, should be given in the schools, the madrasah, the temples and the mosques. If there is any infringement of any laws, the police are there.

This is our view. No religious organisation should take it upon itself to go and spy on people's behaviour. This is actually condemned in every religion. You do not go looking for the faults of others. If they are being immoral, they will suffer. If they are doing something illegal, the police and the proper authorities are there.

Like what was reported in the Malay Mail the other day, how the youths were rounded up. If only you ask their feelings and their parents' feelings... the whole country feels bad about it. And it creates not only problems for the people involved, but also for society and for the government. But do the authorities listen to organisations like the MCCBCHS? When our Council speaks, it speaks with the authority and backing of many religions and people. They definitely do listen, but whether they actually implement what we suggest, that we are unable to monitor.

When we have issues, we speak fearlessly on them, and we highlight whatever problems -- religious or social or even political sometimes. Definitely, the government listens to us. We are represented on the National Unity Panel. We definitely do carry weight, but to what extent their implementation... that is something we are not so sure of. There has been much debate about this question, but it has to be asked. Is Malaysia an Islamic state? If it is, does it not violate the social contract enshrined in the Federal Constitution? The MCCBCHS's view is that Malaysia is NOT an Islamic state. Article 3 of the Federal Constitution states that `Islam is the religion of the Federation but other religions may be practised in peace and harmony in any part of the Federation.' That's all. So from that simple assertion, the wrong interpretation has been placed, that Malaysia is an Islamic country. It is neither in law nor in form an Islamic country.

At the time the social contract was agreed upon, the population was almost 50:50, Muslim and non-Muslim. Since then, the ratio has been shifting. Just because the ratio is now 60% Muslim and 40% non-Muslim, this cannot automatically go against the provision agreed to by all parties in the Constitution.

Everybody has been deriving power from the Constitution, whether [it is] the federal or state governments or even NGOs. Article 11 of the Federal Constitution guarantees the right of every individual to profess and practise the religion of their choice. Religious freedom is in the Constitution. So, any violation of the actual agreement, that will not be for the longterm good of the country.

Malaysia has been promoting itself as a moderate Islamic nation throughout the world... The current Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi has said that he is the PM of ALL Malaysians, Muslims and nonMuslims. And the authority of the government is derived from the Constitution, from the social contract, which says freedom of religion. And their [treatment of] others' religions must be also fair and just. The Council has taken note of this, and we have been trying to make our people understand that... we are working on it. That's why nobody has got up on stage... made a hue and cry, al though many people feel very unhappy, both at our attitude of peaceful persuasion and the government for declaring that Malaysia is an Islamic country, for joining the OIC [Organisation of Islamic Countries, now known as Organisation of the Islamic Conference], which was done earlier and nobody objected then. Why do you think Malaysia sees the need to define itself, especially over these last several years, as an Islamic nation? This is also our difficulty. We are unable to understand it, the actual factor that is driving Malaysia to stress so much on Islam in both the local and international arena.

We definitely feel very uncomfortable that a government chosen by people of all religions should pursue just one religion. We are unable to say for sure... we can conjecture... we have our opinions, based on what's happening in the world and in the country but... I don't want to say any more. How do you think MCCBCHS and the government can work together at this point in time to promote greater religious tolerance and freedom in Malaysia? The Council has taken the chance to see the top leadership. Within the last year, we have seen the former Governor of Malacca, the Yang DiPertua of Negri Sembilan, also the Sultans of Kedah and Pahang, the Regent of Perlis, and we have met the Mentris Besar [or Chief Ministers] of Sabah, Sarawak, Terengganu and Negri Sembilan. And when we meet them, we actually report to them on what is happening on the ground, and how we can help the state governments.

Up to now, the Sultans are mostly taken as being the Sultans of Malays when they are actually the Sultans of all the citizens in the state. So, that is the kind of awareness we are trying to create, both among the royalty and among our people, that we must respect the royalty the same way the Malays do, as they are the fountainhead of the state. That is the approach the Council has been taking. And then, they also give instructions to their officers... to help. The Mentris Besar are also understanding and helpful.

So, that is the way the Council has, all through the years, been trying to create understanding among the leadership and on the ground. The Council will discuss the issues and then the heads of the denominations will pass the word to their people.

That is our stand always, until today. To create understanding and awareness.

We are not happy about the word `tolerance', because tolerance is only temporary and nega tive. You tolerate for some time... but you are not desiring it and do not want it. What we re ally need is religious understanding and accept ance. And our emphasis is that all religions give the same kind of guidance for proper living as an individual, as a member of society, as a member of your religion and as a citizen. All religions do this. And this is what we should promote.

The human factor should be highlighted. Especially, for instance, the recent events -- the tsunami. Everybody and anybody can be af fected. [It] does not mean you would escape if you follow a certain religion. So, as human beings, we should take the human approach. Then, there will be great understanding.

We should not emphasise that only one religion has all the tools. That only the people of that religion are faithful. The negative attitude to others of other religions... that those who are not of their religion are not faithful, not so good... that is the kind of understanding or attitude with which people are wrongly fed. Although people try to emphasise this for good, it creates negativity.

What we are saying is, please, at the government level, even on the religious levels, during the sermons, emphasise the values that religion teaches and how a person who holds the values can be good for society. If everyone follows the values, automatically, society will.

But when emphasis in the media, any me dia, is only on one religion, the other citizens do feel either neglected or not equal. There are a lot of people unhappy with us for not openly expressing their fears. But if you openly ex press it...

But we do have a leadership which is very understanding. They do take note of what the Council says. Slowly, there is some way of chang ing, be it through Islam Hadhari or something else... So what the Council is trying to do is work within the system...

Within the system, yes. That is the first thing... is how the Council has always worked and is still working this way. Everything must be done within the system.

But even working within the system, when we meet people, we don't mince words. We tell them actual situations, how a conversion of a person from one faith to another creates social and family problems. And we give actual examples.

And, in this country now, we have many examples, where a person changes their religion to become a Muslim for marriage. Some cases, when the marriage has not taken place, there is no way the person can come back to either their original religion or some other religion. There is no ruling provided for this problem. That is what the Council has been pushing for -- a way must be found to overcome this growing problem.

Until today, there is no law. But we have been told by Islamic scholars that there is no such prohibition in Islam, where a Muslim cannot change his religion. What can the government do to resolve the current situation of, as you mentioned, uneasiness, within the non-Muslim community in terms of religious freedom? We have written to the Prime Minister to see him. There is also a proposal to form an inter-religious council and that council should have members from all religions, including Is

lam, and government representation. Then, they should listen to people's problems and make appropriate recommendations to the government. And the government should regulate and resolve the problems. That is our approach. But there was a proposal to form an inter-religious council some time last year. The meeting was apparently boycotted by some Islamic NGOs. What happened? Yes, there was a boycott. But we are nevertheless pursuing it. And we have formulated a Bill... which will be discussed. Our steering committee has agreed with it. We are going to have a two-day seminar next month where we will talk about the need for the Bill, and the need for the government to take note and take action on the things we have discussed. After that, we will forward the proposal to the government.

Religion in this country is also highly political as well, as for instance, in the case of PAS. Can such situations promote religious tolerance, understanding and awareness? What can the Council do to promote understanding in such situations? See, our approach has been this. We have seen the PAS leadership on this issue. We met with the for mer Mentri Besar of Terengganu, Datuk Hadi Awang, and met with the PAS Committee, and we have highlighted this situation to them.

So, frankly stating, the situation is this: religion is being used as a political form. PAS is using religion, saying that as Muslims, they are `special', exclusive people, and must have exclusive rights for everything. But they are all citizens of the country, all come under the Constitution.

And, of course, the government is also looking for votes. And one of the easiest ways is to emphasise religion and religious factors.

Somehow, religion in this country has been made into an emotional issue. It is very un- fortunate. The Council has taken note of this and we have been trying to detach this... how to detach? Very difficult. But, do not, please, do not use religion as a political tool.

If you use that, if you have to emphasise one religion, anything negative about the re- ligion creates lots of negative feelings among people.

Use the religious practices and the rules and the values for proper administration, for proper personal conduct, for proper social conduct. Don't just use religion... there are so many things... it is so emotional...

So, our Council tries to balance things. There was a booklet out a few years ago on Malaysia Sebuah Negara Islam, [and] the Council took a very strong stand on it. The book was withdrawn. But... we view these things with great dismay. In your opinion, does Malaysia have a religious divide of Muslims and non-Mus- lims? If you go by perceptions... the government has always been emphasising one religion only. If some other religions are mentioned, it is only a justification... `We are really tol- erant, we allow others their religion... ' The question of `allowing' others, that does not arise. If you hold power, the power given to you is given under the Constitution, given by all the people to you. So the question of whether Malaysia is a model Islamic country and `allows' others... is very negative and should not be used.

All that should be said is that `We are a constitutional country, a constitutional mon- archy, and everything -- rights, duties, respon- sibilities, obligations -- are all enshrined in the Constitution. And we are following the Con- stitution.' That is what should be told.

Once you emphasise one religion, automatically, there is a perception that... all the people are following the religion.

And the thing is, in any true actual Islamic state, non-Muslims can never be equal to Muslims in their rights and privileges. And as Malaysia has equal rights enshrined in its Constitution, it is not an Islamic state. Nor should it be. With all these negative perceptions -- of religion being used as a political tool, religious issues being brought up in secular courts -- where do you see Malaysia going in terms of religious freedom? Are we on the right path or do we have problems? We are having problems. And the Council views this with dismay, that the future does not look as bright as we had hoped. And, with the judiciary, we have not been able to get justice based on law.

Our Council is very fearful that if perceptions are not corrected, then the future... [sighs, looks down] I do not know what it will be like.

But the present government, and the present Prime Minister... the administration is taking a positive attitude towards all Malaysians. And we are hoping that, with his authority as a Muslim scholar and as Prime Minister, and with justice, Malaysia will find some way of overcoming this. How bad do you see the problems to be? At the moment, it's very bad because we are facing a wall! Because we don't know where to go. Because when it is a conversion, nobody seems to take responsibility. All we are told is, once you have converted, that's the end of it. When you converted, you were told this.

Our issue is, this is an inter-religious kind of problem. They said, no, no, no. Once the person becomes a Muslim, it is an intra-religious issue. So you should not interfere. So, that was also the attitude of the people who boycotted the inter-religious conference. Any issue relating to any Muslim, whether born or converted, it is between the Muslims.

We say, it is not so. Because they have previous lives... and families.

I give you an example. See, like Shamala's case. Husband converts. Wife doesn't convert. Children are automatically converted. So, that creates an inter-religious problem.

We have a person, girl or boy. Converts for the purpose of marriage. The marriage doesn't take place. And he or she then wants to marry someone else, cannot! So, where do we go to resolve this?

What they are doing, most other people are going to other countries and converting now. If they can convert in other countries, why can't they convert here? It's not a religious requirement.

What we are saying is, this is a growing problem.

If you want people to inter-mingle, if you want better integration of the people, then you must allow a two-way street. If someone wants to become Muslim, welcome. But if someone wants to leave Islamvoluntarily, there shouldn't be any impediment. There should not be one-way traffic. Sardar Singh, the views you have expressed are very strong. But do you think people, Malaysians, really want to hear what you've spoken about? There are many Malaysians who want to hear that. There are more Malaysians who are asking `Why are you not openly expressing this situation'. Politicians? Their perception is based on how their votes will be affected.

Definitely, people want to hear. This is not something that is hidden. It is not anything secret. Everybody knows. Everybody talks about it. The only thing is, we don't shout it from the rooftops.


Jarnail Singh

The view is, that any conversion is against Islam. The Council's view is we are neither against Islam, nor for or against any other religion. It is simply religious freedom, and we are saying one should be free to practice one's religion, whichever religion that is, and follow those values for personal living

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

the attachment mentioned in the previous message... did not go through. too large.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Guru Nanak may look like a "false Prophet" to radicals like "muslim" and "Jinni" etc BUT see what the following report from malaysia says:

gurmukh pyare jio

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!

while at the GLOBAL SIKHS - WAVES OF MERCY command center at Sabha House yesterday, i could not help noticing the hugh stack of boxes of stuff that is going to be shipped to the villages 'adopted' by Global Sikhs in Aceh, Indonesia, today.

among them were some boxes sent by PERKIM, which is a Muslim Missionary Society. wondering what this malaysian government backed muslim group was sending to the indonesian tsunami victims through the GLOBAL SIKHS, i was told that the boxes contained copies of the Quran and other stuff used for prayers by muslims.

i cannot help thinking that:

1. while Global Sikhs has been trying, with their limited resources and without government backing, to feed, shelter and rehabilitate the mainly muslim victims; PERKIM [with vast resources and government backing] seems to be only concerned with the religious aspects of relief.

2. even they now have faith in the Global Sikhs being the only ones able to deliver their religious items to the victims, even though Global Sikhs are sikhs and not muslims. this is because other relief material is lying at the banda aceh airport, stuck in bureucratic red tape. only global sikhs, with their boats, can reach victims directly.

3. i think this gesture by PERKIM has truly established GLOBAL SIKHS as a multi-national, multi-ethnic, and multi-religious releief operation. well done to all the 'ladliaan faujaan' of guru ji.

4. both our groups working in aceh, indonesia and in south asia [sri lanka, india and andamans] are doing a wonderful job. truly in the khalsa traditions. they bring joy and pride to the hearts of all sikhs around the world. may waheguru bless them all.

My question to Muslim/Jinni is : Do you still say we Sikhs are followers of a "false" prophet ? YOUR people WANT us to carry YOUR QUARAN for YOUR MUSLIMS ?? Where are the BILLIONS of MUSLIMS ?? The 45 Countries ruled by Muslim Governments..the Oil Rich ARABS, Kuwaitis, dubaiis, Omans, turks, ??? in this time of NEED by MUSLIMS ?? SIKHS are distributing KORANS to MUSLIMS for MUSLIMS ... Funny how "followers of false prophets are NEEDEd by the followers of correct prophet ?? The TRUTH is SIKHI isa TRUE UNIVERSAL RELIGION of the One GOD of the Universe that treats ALL as BROTHERS...Na ko Beri Nahin Begana..none is my Enemy..none a Stranger..Solidly PROVEN in Acheh Indonesia.

Jarnail Singh

 

[BabbarSher]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

wah bai wah .. swad aa gaya

 

[Arvind]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Gyani ji and BabbarSher ji,

Your efforts are so very welcome. This is truly sad to see what JIMM member had to say about fellow people. May He bless all those with required tolerance and intelligence to people who are hell bent to malice others.

Best Regards.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Das is just sitting beside his Muslim freind to be more clear giirl freind.And she is not happy what Muslim man has written.As per true Islam,If a person looses the cool and becomes offensive to oppoenet he looses.Das is sorry that Muslim has proven that majority of Muslim are not knowing Islam.

Rasool Said,that from him or from his Ummat(creed),people can get welfare only and nothing else.This is a good way that you gave welfare Bhai Muslim.

>>>>looooooooool... whats the meaning of this gibberish.... I asked you for proof not for statements. The Prophet came to all the people in the world, wonder where you got that from ....ummm let me take a guess ... Quran ..

lol so where do you get your information? or do you just make it up as you go along? lol so whats the guru granth sahib to you? just a book? dont you ever read it and seek guidance from it, maybe thats a bit far fetched as its only your eternal guru for guidance.

So very good.Insted of providing the proof ,you have asked him the counter question.In Exam if you do,Say some one asks why sun sets in west and you write a counter question why does not it rise from west.You will get a BIG Zero.This proves that you are spritualy Zero.As you lack sprituality so you made adverce comments to Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

If you were nelightened you would have known that Guru is God only and that via Gurbani.By following Gurbani sikhs do good to all human beings.By misinterpreting holy Kuran your brothers do 9/11 and are paid back in Afghanistan and Iraq and very soon in Iran and Pakistan.It is not your fault.
Maybe Prphesy of First Master is coming true.God will give lesson to bigots by destrction of there existance.At last it will be in Saudi Arebia.

>>>> well your own standard the Quran says that Prophets are onyl Warners and only God is the guide... hmmmm seems to be contradicting what you are saying. Anyway whats this whole warning stuff.. ok let me guess.. God makes people, but then gets angry and jealous because they worship someone else.. is that what the warning is about..(what a concept of God..who is omniprsentand omnipowerful......please take a break......he is not jealous and angry at anyone) ...... or maybe we can add worship of the prophet who gave the warning, above God..... mebbe that even if u accept God id one, u aint going to heaven, but wowo..just accept that Prophet Mohammed is his prophet.. and off you go to non-stop trip to heaven .. lol

Yea they warn you from the incorrect and show the correct. Yes all guidance is from allah and he gives this guidance to the people through the prophets. lol your a real joke you know that, no god does not get jealous but he does not like those who do not obey him. hmm once again your hate towards islam is comming out yaaawn. And what do sikhs believe? we die and are reencarnated into a low or higher state of being. So what when i die i become a fly? ok fair enough but how do i become a good fly to move up. So if in each and every life im bad what do i keep getting reencarnated? does this mean that this life will never end of there is always people being bad? We know thats not tru as the world will end when the suns time is up in millions of years.

well spritually bankrupt muslims have no self confidence rather to say confidance in Allah who is in all self.So they have insecurity complex as you have shown above.

Anyway can any one dis obey Allah is the mute question.If some one is dislikeing someone for not obeying him then there is a facotr of hatred or jealousy.So prophet do nothing and only Allah does all.

Waves are useless in front of sea.And sea controls everything.One leafe can not flutter without the will of Allah so anyone who is doing kufar(infedality) is is doing just by will of Allha.Kuran satates Oh Faithfull had Allah wanted whole Kafirs(infidals) would have become momins(Faithfull) but only fortunate do become.Allah is least bothered about if any one obeys Allah or not as all is under the control of Allah as all forms are of Allah.Weather you become pig or a fly or a cow or a crow it is not in your deed or hands but in the hand of Allah.Just tell das,When your body is dead,You are buried in a grave,A badger eats your dead body(your carbon and oxygen contents go into badger),Badger dies,it is eaten by a pig.Again some part of yoour body become part of pigs body.Pig is eaten by Das.So your part become part of Das's body.

So during your last day of judgement(Qayamat) how will be the desicion made that whose body should be revied yours or das.or of Badger or of pig.The matterial recylces so can the souls.It is in the hand of Allah.Say at a three differnt time three people had same water in there body.Whose body will be revived or will it be reived without water.

If you have even a little faith in Allah you can answer.

>>>>>>Well .. I am not able to make head or tail of what you are saying in this statement. Are you implying that you FOLLOW or you DO NOT follow .. please be clear .. and also whats the point ..

Are you brain dead? duh muslims follow them.

Das can see how god you are following.If all are like you then it is matter of few days that no one will there to defend them but Sikhs.

so this means if some muslims are eating pork,taking intewrst or drinking wine they must be followed like sheeps follw other sheep.

>>>>>>So.. they already had a prophet .. what was the need of asecond prophet.. isnt it that one people are only sent prophet as per you .. or can there be multiple of prophets ... ??

Umm Jesus didnt come to the people of Arabia duuuuh.

As far as Guru Granth Sahib is concerned.. one has to read it to know thats its Baani is divine.. thats enough for me.. I dont want to convert other people... just want to defend my religion and my beliefs... when one eyed muslims come running to convert sikhs ... loooool..

Yea thats why the language of gurumuki has vanished, and so you can never fully appreciates its beauty."i want facts not statements". So if your religion is the true religion why are you so selfish in not wanting to share its beauty and wisdom, doesnt everyone desreve the right to follows god path. Lol you dont convert people because no one wants to. WHY DO PEOPLE CONVERT TO ISLAM IF ITS SO WRONG?

So this means that jesus had no rlation with Arebia that you are talking like racial Pagan arabs as whole manking is one race.Jesus had blood relation with Rasool as they were decendent of brothers Hazrat Ismail Ahle Salam and Hazrat Ishhaq Ahle Salam.So you agree that philistine is not an arebia where Jesus lived.

some Muslims are one eyed like you who are more after considering Muslims only as humans and other .

Niether you can convert any.Only Allah can make thing happens nor you can protect yourself as Allah is the only protector.

Just by reading Kuran,without the will of Allah Divne knowledge con not be obtained.So how can you think of Adi Guru Darbar hleping you,All is doen by God.God helps you Had God wanted you have understood the essence that God is beyond religeon.Allah is not muslim nor Akal a Sikh.

So what is in Gurmukhi script if the same knowledge can be explained by will of Allah to nayhuman being in any Language. Gurmukhi script is still alive and Gurbani has Arebic ,hindi among many other languages accomodated in it.But Holy Kuran has only arebic so thats why arabs mis quoted it.Such problem is not there in Gurbani as it has many languages as all languages are of God.Sikhs or Muslims do not convert others but God does.As a Sikh we feel anyone can get salvation with faith in God and with will of God but alas Tableeghi or preachers of islam have no faith in Allah.They are afraid,Just to overcome the fear that they are not wrong they misguide others who are fools.

After befooling fools by converting them they get a sense of security at least temporaryly that they are right as other are following them.they do not know that this done by Allah to put theses Tabeegheess off to Allah as Allah does not like bogots like you nor does Rasol and they may slap you when they meet you.

The way a foolish thrist crow says that look i have swimmed the sea off nector bur still I am thirsty so is your statement about Guru Granth Sahib Ji,Das pity you.

Gurmukhi is becoming popular in your muslims nations hey! where do you live,Have you been to Turkey ,Azar baizan,Central Asian Nations ,Iran or Afghnistans.

Many of your where own circumcensed and under going Baptisem(Baba Virsa Singh at work) ,It is rather your type of Islam,which is loosing the folks but empty vessals make more sound.It is more that you tend prevent rest of your folk from leaving your faith so do you say Muslims are converting other faith people to Islam.It is more a false propganda yet you stick to it.So you spred False hood.what about your Al Mahjrouns 's Baris plan to convert 25 millions to Islam on 21 July 2004. Due to only 500 odd Sikhs only 17 of your brave people turn out in a house of Chaudhri like a Rats.

When in Kashmeer your Jeehadis do holy war in Burqa,it shows how true you are,When pistols are hidden in book with kuran written on it or when your type of men hide in mosque full of devotees fearing allies following them.That is a good seen.

Well weather we preach or not our best religeon can be seen in the streets of eastern europe or in America or in Brazeel.We do not fear like you who make false claim about conversions.Just so that folks reamin togather.We have truth with us.Das has just given you a tip of iceberg.We do not have to supply the tesomonies of Converts because as per Sikhism even an non Sikh can get salvation as it is dicieded by Allah,Iblis has taken over your mind and you treat as if Allah is under the control of rasool(Prophet) or Ummat (Creed of Muslims),Allah is showing you Allahs might and there is still time for you to do Tauba or penence or else you will loose.After Vazier Khan did injustice to young Princes 300 years ago,Islamic powers is moving to nadir and will still be moving.

We do not preach any one Sikhism but Allah does it for does who Allah want to be salvaged.

Have said it earlier to idiots like Jinni .. leave us alone. leave our women alone .. we dont need you are your religion, but they dont understand ..

and when all else fails.. sikhs do know how to respond ..and response you will get from us..

AWWW all your women are reverting back to islam? what a shame. Lol umm i thought all religions are equal and can attain a path to god? so why does it matter if anyone is a sikh or muslim?

The problem is that if you are left alone then soon your type of people will wage a Jeehad on non beliver,The freedom you people enjoy in democracy rather misuse it so that civil libaerty of all human is at stake.Your mentality is more responsible for human right violations in India or in Iraq or in US govt. may not be blamed as you force them.Whereever your type is there,There is a war,If not with others(as they are elimnated) then with your self.

So if you rape or exploit your women,should we leave them.In old time during the Abdali invations,Muslims women were raped or taken as a slave Sikhs use to save them.Das hope that you are from Pakistan.Had Sikh not thwere and your women folk would have left on the mercy of coreligeous Afghans then may be you would have been riding a Camal as slave in the area of any Sheik.

Even today,Be it sons of Sddam or terrorists of Kashmeer,they abuse Muslim Ladies.So are these true mulsim afraid of power the way they were duing slave dynasty of Delhi.History says,Sikh King Ranjeet Singh bowed to Akal Takhat for commiting sin and took Punishment(This is in political Sc currucullam of 2nd year of BA) but Balban made Cleric(Ulema) to do Sazzda(touching head to ground to respect) for King.Never did any of brave come out to oppose this anti Islamic thing.This is called hypocracy.

>>>> grow up... its not written in old testament or the new one about Prophet Mohammed.. the Christians and Jews both deny it. You are only feeding upon what radical islamic scholars feed you.. thats the whole issue with you guys,, me, my religiois best..others are stupid.. they cant be good.. they are mislead..

Ok so if if isnt written then why do they revert? Lol thats all you guys can pull out, radical muslim scholars lol. No islam is the same religion of moses and jesus.

you have been talking of pork since long so Das will tell you how did Mosses or Jesus followed Islam.Pig on earth does not eat its shit but it does it in heavan.Das never saw Pig doing this.It is foolish to expect from you that you did a stutdy of Pig.But after it was thrown out of heavon.

Pig made a sacrifise by takeing evil spirit removed from man by Jesus and with it sinking itself in sea(New Testment or Angeel).From that day pig was pardonned and its meat beacame ediable,so Great was Jesus.Adn even in holy kuran aslo Eating pork is forbbiddan in genral terms while eating as defying Allah other wise ok.So many of you Muslims do eat it.

600 years ago, Guru Nanak recognised the will of God, his Hukam and presented his religion. People before Guru Nanak --- also reognised will of God and attained him... many of the Bhagats lived before his age...

Guru Nanak brought out the truth as ordained by God, from the starting of time, while the rest of the world, just indulged in pettey rituals...

Can not you sea the term bhagats before him.Sikhism is Sanatan Dhrama ,the eternal faith,Started by Akal(God).It is here since universe is in being.It is of God,By the God and For the God.It was even before Hazrat Adam ahale Salla as Akali are nothing but Akal.Your Rasool was nothing more then a Sikh of Akal,That is exact position.Neither we worship Rasool nor any oen else but God.

Lol so Guru Nanak is the only one who shared his religion with his peopl and the others who also recognised this will of god thought hmmm should i tell the people or not...nahh. Huh? guru nanak brought the truth from the beginning of time?

It was Akal ,who made Gurudev to do what he made Rasool to do.

I look forward to the day Islam is the worlds biggest religion and Sikhism dies out, cos face it man like you said your women are embracing islam and leaving sikhi, people are loosing their 5k's and no one really attends your guduwaras.

so your own Wahabi,Sunni,Deobandi prefesses say other wise,

With the time false muslims will offend true Muslims(As you are offendining Babber Sher Singh Ji),Allah will punish them with complete extermination.Only one with Black turban will remain.

Wait,what do Shia says,With Imam Mahdi,Five persons with Turbans and blue color will decend and librate the world.Five are called Khalasis.They are in fact Khalsa(The half moon on the turban of Nihung shows that).

Thing doed not end here.Have you seen what is behinf the black Wall of mecca.It is a cyninder like a place where animal are killed(you call it alter of Hazrat Ibraheem Ahle Salla) But it is like shiva linga as both look the same.

So should alter be worshipped.There are many things attached to other prophets of jews whcih were rather broken at Al Aqsa during Intefida movement of Philitineans(1999 2000),were they not worthy of Worship.

Khalsa is there to destroy any thing ,Worshipped ,other then Akal.so that alter is not an exception.Rember that instead of Mecca your fore father use to bow head to Jerusalem.The Khalsa created by Allah himself will make you worship in the direction of Allah,who is everywhere.From your very Muslims it is rising but your eyes blinded by Darkness can not see.You are not one eyed insptie of being bigot like turk and anti Islam(As it is turkism which is fantic and anti to all and not Islam) you are more blind like a foolish hindu.(Not all hindus are bad either).

you intelligent guy,The Das himself was not a Sikh but became Sikh by mercy of God.Even das had an option to embrace Islam but that faith there are people like you.Who have no sabar(Patiance) so Iblis takes over you but Wall Allah Sabreen(Allah is with one who have patnce).What great is my faith you fool Das can not explain.At one place fellow Muslim go for life of fellow muslim due to regional,sectornal or racial differnces.

But here Das and Babber Sher Brother have two differnent idealogies of Sikhism yet we can die for each other and kill for each other.Panth(Faith) loves the high quality of converts and Quantity does not matter.If there are more more conveerts in Islam like you than at the most it will die out with in next 50 years.What people do you convert,Drug addicts,Drunkards,Criminals or the one who are antagonsied from there socity.

Das is from hindu Family and they are happy that Das is Sikh as being a Sikh Das can do more for hindus then being a Hindu.A Sikh convert in west does not make hero of bin Laden (Muslim converts does and work against the national interest of that nation)but rather they work hard uplift the socity in which they live rahter then trying to overthrow it and enslave it latter.

Regarding Female folk.Das had many chances to do un Sikh act with Muslim female but das is not a Muslim like you,By the way on commiting adultary as per Islam one must be stoned to death but nothing actually happens as that Islam is dead in muslims like you.Das was always protected by Akal.And das did not commit adultary but had he been like you and you get a non muslim lady Das knows that you would have shown the true colors.

Circumsenstion is done to mark the amount of restrain but it has been made a mark lust by people like you.So did Saint Kabeer ,himself born in Muslim family did question,If it was do be done by God why was not it done before birth or why were we not born with circumsention.And what about female?If wife does not agree Muslim man has a right to rape his wife is not true,Is not this anti Kuran?

So in Bihar to Mahrashtra there is a rise in Singhs with 5ks and many of them were khans or muhamuds.Sikhs also marry many of Muslims female but we do not advertise as we have much more bigger thing to Propogate and that is name of God.We do not have to recruit Sheeps by telling other the x or y has become Muslims so you to come to the way of Islam.The people who do not have stuff worthy to be progated do such idiotics,We have name of God to preach.And we recruit Lions Singhs who are ever ready to die and not the rats like bin laden(who still lives in rat hole).It is better to not convert bad person in Faith then to have the less numbers.And In Sha Allah soon,Dear Muslim you will see that our Faith in Allah has paid us Back.

It is your type of creed which is going dowen,in Afghanistan,In Iraq,in Iran,in Pakistan and Singhs are increasing in High spirits Chradi Kala.After reading you das will never prevent neo convertees to Sikhism in eastern UP or Bihar from doing justice to muslims over there.You have lost a friend and infact due to you many Muslims in many part of India and other part of the world will suffer as they were in facr protected by Sikhs.

May Akal bless you.

 

[devinesanative]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Dear Muslim


Mohammad was not a prophet since his childhood , but was a shepherd , used to take along with him the cattle to the fields where the cattle grazed .........

It was only after one day when he has an encounter with the Christian Philosopher or Priest , that he was enlightened ............

And then he founded ISLAM

ISLAM is an acronym for IS+LA+M

IS means ISA meaning JESUS , LA means ALLAH , M means Mohammed


It means Mohammed enlightened by Jesus about ALLAH .............

 

[Admin]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Admin Note: Last five posts in this thread have been deleted as they added nothing to the discussion. Dear muslim and devinesanative are advised to keep away from nonesense talk. A few more instances of such a chidish behaviour would invite a nice little harsh warning to both of you. Grow Up dudes!!

 

[devinesanative]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Dear Veer Aman Singh Ji

Anyways I am leaving this discussion forum ................

As Childs have no place here .............

Please don't mind what I am writing here .............. you can ofcourse delete it .....

I don't want to be the one of the cats among the cats here ,

Where this forum is the Weighing Scale ............

Bread is the Religion ...............

I think we all are fighting like a cat ..............

And the Monkey who is getting benefit is the Owner of This Site ..........

So , its more or less like a Story which we have read

Monkey and the Two Cats.......... : )

Sorry , Veer for saying so ..............

I humbly request you to delete my profile ........ and unsubscribe me from this forum ...............

 

[Admin]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Take it easy. Do you mind telling us what kind of benefit, you are talking about?

 

[hpluthera]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Dear Murkha
Firstly, it is not required to prove to anyone that Guru nanak Was a Prophet or Not. "
Maney ki Gat Kahi Na Jaye Je Ko kahe ----"
It is the firm belief within that is important not the reason or argument to satisfy yours or mine ego.

Guru nanak Did write "that what ever he was writing is dictated by God while explaining to Bhai lalo in the verse in Adi Granth. The Adi Granth is the final compilation of all the Gurus writings plus the saints Bhatts.

Debating a belief systems to undermine one's faith or glorifying other is like a Business and has no spiritual consequence hence a conversation in futality for ego feeding. Guru Has asked his Sikhs to restrain from feeding this ego. That is the reason there is no conversion in Sikhism as It accepts all humans as Sikhs and their ultimate goal is to become Khalsa the pure and His Soldier.

I do not care if you believe in Mohammad as a Prophet or not all I care that you are a human being in search of spiritual bliss be it through name of Allah or Rahim or Raam hence a Sikh and Gurubani can help you achieve in easiest way without diversion or conversion. Once you are on its path you will not need the Roza or Chile or any of those namaazan, to get to Him and you Reach direct to the "Sach Khand" the place of abode of the Lord or Allah.

The Misguided Muslims keep on thinking only one way "how to put down others religion and belief systems and tell them that they are all wrong and only their ways are right."

Such persons are like "KUKAR Syane" the one who make a morning cry to wake others but themselves sleep. So dear wake up and be receptive to practice remembering Allah's name in your heart to achieve spiritual bliss and share the knowledge for achieving that instead of creating controversies and disputes leading to create disharmonious behaviour.

There is no science of love it is an art of love. It can not be learnt by formulas it has to be practiced. May Allah give you wisdom to understand to not question others beliefs.
It does not matter if in your mind Guru nanak is not a Prophet who cares ?when He (Guru Nanak) is in many millions heart mind and faith.

Stop posting such stupid questions.

To the Host of this site may I request that Sikh Philosophy Site be used to constructive thaught and progressive thinking not disputing or questioning Belief systems. Guru Teg Bahadur Laid his life for protection of Tilak and janju when Sri Guru Nanak Rejected those symbles. Lesson our Gurus gave is one they practiced not just worded. Gurus inspite of their different path never undermined others but gave them Sehaj Marg of Sikhi which means we all are seekers of truth and Naam Simran is the easiest and cool way to get to Him. So Dear friend make your breath the Mala of beads and start saying Allah Allah and you will get the answer on 21st day if guru was a prophet, It is my Gaurantee.
Love
HP

Sikhs do call, Guru Nanak as their Prophet. Which is wrong, becos hazrat Muhammad [SAW]was the last prophet, and all others who claim to be one, are hypocrites and false prophet.

Guru Nanak was no Prophet just reformer, it would be clear by reading the fowlling.

Qualities of a Prophet of God

No one can become a prophet of God by his own choosing or effort; Allah has to choose him to be His prophet. And Allah chooses only such persons who have all the qualities necessary for that role, and He does so at the appropriate time in history, and then He protects His prophets from falling into the kind of errors that do not suit a prophet.

The first duty that a prophet of God does is to tell his people that he has been appointed a prophet by God to invite people to His way. Thus, a genuine prophet claims to be a prophet of God, though this claim in itself is not enough. But first and foremost, a prophet has to claim himself to be a prophet of God. The people often question this claim and threaten him to give up his claim. They may even offer him all kinds of temptations that ordinary humans would fall for. But the genuine prophets ignore these and go forward with their God-given mission.

So, the first question you need to ask your Sikh friend is: Did Nanak really claim to be a prophet chosen by God to lead people out of darkness into light?

If the answer is “no,” tell him that this proves that prophethood was conferred on him by his zealous followers and it is meaningless to continue to argue that Nanak was a prophet.

If the answer is “yes,” the second question is: Did Nanak approve of the roles of earlier prophets of God, especially the prophet who came just before him, Muhammad (peace be on him)?

If he says “yes,” ask him then how one can reconcile the fact that Muhammad was the Last Prophet of God and the claim that Nanak was a prophet after the Last Prophet.

The third question is whether all the Sikhs believe that their holy book, called the Adi Granth, was revealed to Nanak by God. If they say “yes,” ask them whether there is any statement to that effect in the book itself and whether Nanak said that the Adi Granth had been fully revealed to him by God. If the answer is in the affirmative, your Sikh friend has to show the proof that the above statements are true, from the Adi Granth itself. This will not be possible for him to do for the following reasons:

1. The Adi Granth is a collection of the writings of many Gurus including Nanak. It was in 1604—Nanak died in 1539—that Arjan Dev, one of the ten Gurus, compiled the hymns of Guru Nanak along with the compositions of both Hindu and Muslim holy men like Jaidev, Surdas, Sheikh Farid and Kabir. The compiled book was enshrined by Arjan in the Golden Temple with the name “Adi Granth.”

2. A prophet of God is a model for all his followers in all aspects of life. But in the case of Sikhism, we find that it was not Guru Nanak, but the tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, who organized the community of Sikhs into a khalsa, “a spiritual brotherhood devoted to purity of thought and action.” He taught his followers to wear long hair (kesh, denoting saintly appearance), underwear (kachha, denoting self-control), an iron bangle (kara, denoting purity in acts), a comb (kangha, denoting cleanliness of mind and body), and a sword (kirpan, denoting fight for a just cause).

3. Towards the end of his life, the aged Nanak returned home to Punjab and settled down at Kartharpur with his family. People came from far and near to hear his hymns and preaching. After his death, his Hindu followers thought him to be a Hindu and his Muslim followers thought him to be a Muslim.

From the foregoing, we understand that Guru Nanak was not a prophet of God, but a religious reformer of his times.

 

[japjisahib04]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

If any religion which keeps you within the bondage of hate, undermining others sentiments, is not true religion.
Regards Sahni Mohinder

 

[sher]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Signs of Prophets and Godly Men!

[1] Prophets don't spread hatered but love.
[2] Prophets create men not cowards who blow up kids and women.
[3] Prophets don't teach to divide war loot including women.
[4] Prophets respect women and don't say they are worth one fifth or fourth of manly votes etc.
[5] Prophets give true rules not temporary ones! Like what happens to a religion if moon blows up and are we really facing east when we say we do?? Think about it! How one will pray from moon? Ever moving experience while praying I guess.
Don't get me going please!

 

[japjisahib04]

Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

You are right. It is only the preistly class who preaches hate in order to run their business.
Thank God. Guru Nanak has strictly advised us to stay away from priestly class and advocated direct link with God.
Regards Sahni Mohinder