Gurus Guru Nanak In Uganda, Africa

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Guru Piayario Jios,

Moderating/adminsitrating/mentoring etc is like walking on a razor thin line...its definitely not a walk in the park ( as some may think judging from their remarks). Having been on the Internet for the past 20 so years and founding member/moderator to just ordinary member of various Forums and web sites i know the ground reality very well and personally.I left many Forums which i was one of the first few members..and joined others..as and when i please..that is my right and so is this right of all of you...BUT we must also remeber at all times that OUR "right" ends just at the point where the Other's NOSE begins..or our fist will collide with his nose and ther will be bloo_dy noses all round !!
Its so easy to get LOST..this Post was started on such agood note...research into the Travels of Guru nanak Ji...on one Forum a prolific poster dismissed it derisively just becasue it carried the name of a poster that this person didnt like (what a unscholalry approach..tsk tsk..)..on SPN it degenarted into a "verbal fisticuffs"...and so far absolutley nothing has emerged that even remotely suggest any research into Guru Nanak ji in UGANDA !!
Its my fervent hope as is expressed by Aman Singh Ji in hsi post above that we at SPN are mature Sikhs, members of a Brotherhood who can forgive and forget. We do get carried away at times..and if an apology has been tendered we shoudl be magnanimous and proceed sans any enmity/hard feelings...PLEASE. Lets get the Thread back on Track...
Apologies if i have stepped on any toes...no offense intended and no malice held.
Gurfateh and Chardeekalla to all

 

[arshi]

<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: #001f4b; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Aman Singh ji<?"urn:

Gurfateh

First of all let me apologise for putting you through so much trouble and as Gyani ji pointed out moderating is like walking on a two-edged sword. I also applaud your remarks that no one (including a moderator is above the guidelines). I applaud you for that.

Please refer to my post to Tejwant ji where I clearly said that although I had prepared longer responses I decided to not to post these in the interests of not hurting feelings. Hurting feelings and causing discomfort was never my objective. So I have tried. I reproduce a part of the note:

“ As we have digressed so much from the original thread I was aiming to conclude the deviation; although I had prepared a much longer reply but felt it is futile to debate when strong preconceived ideas and prejudices are held - one only has to follow the thread to see what I mean. No amount of counter arguments on my side will resolve anything and only hurt feelings, which I very much wish to avoid.”

<o> </o>

Further, Aman Singh ji I did not put words in your mouth. Please do read again what I wrote and I quote: “Such unkind remarks were quite rightly picked up by Aman Singh ji asking for an explanation from the author.” I used the ‘condemn’ word for other readers and do admit the word was rather strong and the expression I meant to use was ‘question’ and the sentence should have read“Such unkind remarks were quite rightly picked up by Aman Singh ji asking for an explanation from the author. It is disappointing to note that many, including yourself, did not question such outburst until after Aman Singh ji’s post.” But because of time constraints and the technical problems I was having in posting, an inappropriate word slipped, for which I apologise.

There you have it! What else do we require to calm our anger and frustration? or is it something else?

I had no hidden motive or intention to cause trouble and your comments are fair and totally above reproach. Thanks.

However, please note that there were references to East Africans and Ramgarhias which were not, in my opinion, quite complimentary. Randip Singh calls GNNSJ “this pseudo-ramgharia/namdhari Sikh cult.” I overlooked these again in the interests of not prolonging the arguments and withheld my rarher long response. Please do give some credit for the restraint I have shown.

I hope you will allow me to clear a few things up and also introduce some history. This is not a criticism of anyone but only an effort to clear up a few facts – i.e. it is only informative and meant to educate and not to argue or offend.

When Baba Puran Singh ji first came to <?xml::

</st1:country-region><st1lace w:st="on">UK he felt that most Gurdwaras did not follow proper maryada and that those in authority were not always practicing Sikhs. Gradually a nucleus grew around him and the sangat purchased a small building in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Birmingham. Anyone involved was required to serve without any financial rewards including Ragis and parcharaks – absolute Nishkam Sewa was the motto. With time the organization gathered momentum.

Gyani Amolak Singh (now deceased) a scholar, orator and noted Kirtanya joined Baba ji and commenced Nishkam Sewa for the first time in his life – previously he performed kirtan for a living. Such was the influence Baba ji had on this scholar who had few equals at the time.

It is interesting to note that in the early sixties when the Namdhari Guru visited <st1:country-region w:st="on">Kenya</st1:country-region> and the mainstream Sikhs felt intimidated and pressurized by his presence, they invited Gyani Amolak Singh ji from <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Tanzania</st1:country-region> to uplift their spirits by impressive lectures on Sikhi and Sikh history. Many saw this as a kind of contest, albeit at separate venues between the Namdharis and the mainstream Sikhs. Gyani Amolak Singh ji did a tremendous job in countering the influence of the Namdhari Guru and helped in raising the morale of the Sikhs. Therefore, for anyone to suggest that Baba ji was influenced by the Namdharis is ludicrous. In fact it is quite the opposite. Gyani Amolak Singh ji, in the sangat of Baba ji, wore a black dastar and a normal garb as worn by any Gyani. As this Sikh Institute developed they named it on the premise it began –Selfless Sewa and hence Nishkam Sewak Jatha or more precisely Guru Nanak Nishkam Sewak Jatha. The Soho Road Gurdwara attracted sangat not only from <st1:City w:st="on">Birmingham and the Midlands but also from <st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">London and other Cities. They never had to appeal for funds or take loans as the sangat poured money in.

It must be noted that out of the five prominent figures that emerged in the group only Baba Puran Singh ji came from the Ramgarhia community,the other four Gyani Amolak Singh, Bhai Narang Singh ji (previously from Malaysia), Sewa Singh Mandla (a lawyer – seen in the pictures in the ‘Sikhs in Israel’ article), Bhai Mohinder Singh ji (an Ahluwalia) come form different backgrounds. To suggest that GNNSJ is a Ramgahria/Namdhari Sikh cult is gross injustice and a notion based on false premises.

Gyani Amolak Singh was the high profile parcharak and kirtanya during Baba ji’s time in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">UK</st1:country-region> and also whilst Bhai Narang Singh ji took over the reins and briefly during Bhai Mohinder Singh ji’s tenure. He was a strong opponent of living Gurus and as mentioned above delivered many lectures to uplift the morale of Sikhs who felt intimidated by the presence in Nairobi of the Namdhari Guru. So to suggest that GNNSJ is a pseudo-ramgharia/namdhari Sikh cult is, forgive me, not fair in my opinion.

The quotation from Gurbani was not used as a weapon as suggested by Tejwant ji neither was it to label anyone as nindak. The quotation was just a POLITE way of reminding that prejudices can be harmful for the soul – please believe me, it was meant in good faith. I often remind myself of the same when I am carried away in over-zealous criticism of others. I would still repeat that nindya is a negative trait, even worse than the five vices – kaam, krodh, lobh, moh hunkaar. I, too, am wary of Babas who exploit religion for their personal benefit and when ever I carried away and become too critical of them my wife often reins me in by saying “nyndia acchi nahin” (slander – rancour - is not a good thing). I hope Tejwant ji will read this as I will not respond separately to his post – it is not a snub, only a desire to conclude this unfortunate chapter. No ill will of accusations were meant – the trouble is when we engage in discussions thorough writing is, that words and statements can be misconstrued and if I caused Tejwant ji any offence then it was unintentional. I do not mind being personally accused or derided but am only sensitive to what is said about our Gurus and saintly persons.

I do acknowledge that some respondents to this thread are longstanding members and I am relatively new on the scene but I am sure you will respect my right to express my views where I disagree or feel the remarks are prejudicial or damaging to a person, group or a community – I agree, in turn, it will be wrong of me to respond in the same away and if, in any way, that impression was given above, it was not intentional. I post very selectively and after this I would be even more selective as I can see the sort of scrutiny my posts undergo – every word appears to be scanned. Anyone who doubts my intentions should read the thread from the beginning and decide for themselves. I intend to close this chapter here as per Gyani ji’s wise words and it is only appropriate to end with his words “that we at SPN are mature Sikhs, members of a Brotherhood who can forgive and forget.”

Bhul chuk khima

Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’

 

[Luckysingh]

I don't know too much to go in detail about this lot.
But as a mona Punjabi lad growing up in Uk- I can confirm that YES, this gurdwara is discriminative to mona Sikhs.
-I got ignored many times in the langar hall and felt like a fool when having to ask for something !
-I always used to dread seeing any of the groups of men in the white turbans and clothes because they would look at you like an infidel.

At first , I just thought it was me noticing these things and that I was being paranoid for no reason. But after speaking to other monas and young lads about this, they too confirmed that they had experienced a prejudice atmosphere because they were monai or had trimmed beards.

(Anyway, the 'Kohinoor', which was an indian bar across the road used to get extremely busy when huge sangat diwans were happening- probably because all the rejects went over to drown their prejudiced sorrows!0:singhsippingcoffee

 

[arshi]

Lucky ji

Just a quck reply - short of time.

It is very wrong to discriminate on grounds of being a mona - I have many monas in my family and I can understand the slight you feel at the hands of over-zealous sewadars. I have heard this before and this is one practice which must stop and I will not waste any opportunity to bring this to the attention of a few regulars I know. The 'holier tha thou attitude' driving youngsters away - there is no disputing that fact.

Regards

Rajinder Singh 'Arshi'

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Lucky ji

Just a quck reply - short of time.

It is very wrong to discriminate on grounds of being a mona - I have many monas in my family and I can understand the slight you feel at the hands of over-zealous sewadars. I have heard this before and this is one practice which must stop and I will not waste any opportunity to bring this to the attention of a few regulars I know. The 'holier tha thou attitude' driving youngsters away - there is no disputing that fact.

Regards

Rajinder Singh 'Arshi'

Lucky ji,

Guru Fateh.

I apologise for you going through that. I am sure Arshi ji was not aware of this apartheid way of the GNNSJ. But as you have made Arshi ji aware of this atrocity, he will talk to his faith leader, Bhai Sahib Dr. Mohinder Singh to sort this out. Next time invite Arshi to go with you.

Good luck.

Tejwant Singh

 

[japjisahib04]

Lucky ji

Just a quck reply - short of time.

It is very wrong to discriminate on grounds of being a mona - I have many monas in my family and I can understand the slight you feel at the hands of over-zealous sewadars. I have heard this before and this is one practice which must stop and I will not waste any opportunity to bring this to the attention of a few regulars I know. The 'holier tha thou attitude' driving youngsters away - there is no disputing that fact. Regards Rajinder Singh 'Arshi'

S. Arshi Ji

Over here I would like to offer interpretation of

sant kaa nindak mahaa attaa-ee.
sant kaa nindak khin tikan na paa-ee.
sant kaa nindak mahaa hati-aaraa.
sant kaa nindak parmaysur maaraa.
sant kaa nindak raaj tay heen.
sant kaa nindak dukhee-aa ar deen.
sant kay nindak ka-o sarab rog.
sant kay nindak ka-o sadaa bijog.
sant kee nindaa dokh meh dokh.
naanak sant bhaavai taa us kaa bhee ho-ay mokh. ||3|| (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 280)

Over here Sant stands for truth and nindak for ignoring. Ignoring to listen the divine virtues and then descriminating is 'hatiara'. This pankti is not addressed to self style sants.

best regards
sahni mohinder

 

[Brother Onam]

In the spirit of the original theme, I find it fascinating that there is a holy site in Uganda that is, rightly or wrongly, attributed to Guru Nanak. East Africa is the cradle of mankind, and necessarily has very ancient and mystical history. Now we have one more facet to this jewel of Sat Naam to contemplate and romance, as it were.

 

[Harry Haller]

I do feel that there is a lot of romance in this story, its an interesting story, but on balance, it would appear there are forces with vested interests at work here.