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Guru Sahib, Kalika And Bhagauti - PART 1

Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਭਯੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਸਿਵ ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਭਯੋ ਜੁਗੀਆ ਹੈ ॥
काल ही पाइ भयो ब्रहमा सिव काल ही पाइ भयो जुगीआ है ॥
At the instance of KAL, Brahma appeared and also at the instance of KAL the Yogi Shiva appeared.

ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਸੁਰਾਸੁਰ ਗੰਧ੍ਰਬ ਜੱਛ ਭੁਜੰਗ ਦਿਸਾ ਬਿਦਿਸਾ ਹੈ ॥
काल ही पाइ सुरासुर गंध्रब ज्छ भुजंग दिसा बिदिसा है ॥
At the instance of KAL, the gods, demons, Gandharvas, Yakshas, Bhujang, directions and indications have appeared.

ਔਰ ਸੁਕਾਲ ਸਭੈ ਬਸ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ ॥੮੪॥
और सुकाल सभै बस काल के एक ही काल अकाल सदा है ॥८४॥
All the other prevalent object are within KAL, only One supreme KAL is ever Timeless and eternal.84.
 
Dec 1, 2006
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Gurfateh

ਕਰੰ ਬਾਮ ਚਾਪਿਯੰ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਣੰ ਕਰਾਲੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਤੇਜ ਤੇਜੰ ਬਿਰਾਜੈ ਬਿਸਾਲੰ ॥
करं बाम चापियं क्रिपाणं करालं ॥ महा तेज तेजं बिराजै बिसालं ॥
He holds the bow in His left hand and the terrible sword (in the right). He is the Supreme Effulgence of all lights and sits in His Great Glory.

ਮਹਾਂ ਦਾੜ੍ਹ ਦਾੜ੍ਹੰ ਸੁ ਸੋਹੰ ਅਪਾਰੰ ॥ ਜਿਨੈ ਚਰਬੀਯੰ ਜੀਵ ਜਗਯੰ ਹਜਾਰੰ ॥੧੮॥
महां दाड़्ह दाड़्हं सु सोहं अपारं ॥ जिनै चरबीयं जीव जगयं हजारं ॥१८॥
He, of Infinite Splendour, is the masher of of the boar-incarnation with great grinder tooth. He crushed and devoured thousands of the creatures of the world.18.

ਡਮਾਡੰਮ ਡਉਰੂ ਸਿਤਾਸੇਤ ਛਤ੍ਰੰ ॥ ਹਾਹਾ ਹੂਹੂ ਹਾਸੰ ਝਮਾਝੱਮ ਅਤ੍ਰੰ ॥
डमाडम डउरू सितासेत छत्रं ॥ हाहा हूहू हासं झमाझ्म अत्रं ॥
The tabor (in the hand of Great Death (KAL) resounds and the black and white canopy swings. Loud laughter emanates from his mouth and the weapons (in his hands) glisten.

ਮਹਾ ਘੋਰ ਸਬਦੰ ਬਜੇ ਸੰਖ ਐਸੰ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਲੈ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਕਾਲ ਕੀ ਜ੍ਵਾਲ ਜੈਸੇ ॥੧੯॥
महा घोर सबदं बजे संख ऐसं ॥ प्रलै काल के काल की ज्वाल जैसे ॥१९॥
His conch produces such a terrible sound that appears like the blazing fire of the Death on doomsday.19.
(vachitar Natak).

Bhai rember in India left hand means ease.So easy thing for Akal is sword and

This is not Shiva as

ਮਹਾ ਤੇਜ ਤੇਜੰ ਮਹਾ ਜ੍ਵਾਲ ਜ੍ਵਾਲੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੰ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲ ਕਾਲੰ ॥੧੭॥
महा तेज तेजं महा ज्वाल ज्वालं ॥ महा मंत्र मंत्रं महा काल कालं ॥१७॥
He is the Most Effulgent of all lights and Supreme Conflagration of all fires. He is the Supreme Spell of all incantations and Supreme embodiment of Death over all such powers.17.

And at start Mahdev Dev is also there could be borught if needed.


ਸਿਰੰ ਮਾਲ ਰਾਜੰ ॥ ਲਖੇ ਰੁਦ੍ਰ ਲਾਜੰ ॥
सिरं माल राजं ॥ लखे रुद्र लाजं ॥
The rosary of heads glorified his neck, seeing which the god Shiva feels abashed.

It may also means on the head of garlands of kings.Try to use some vocbulary of Braj Bhasha over here.

Some Kings in Bihar use to get Garlands in the name of Shiva.

But heads of us is Garland of Akal as we are part of body of Akal till we are in mammon of visibilty.So nothing to do with Rudra or Shiva.

Above is not description of God as per Gurmat. That is description of liqor taking, bhung grinding, angry, evil, mahakaal which dasam granth says is God.
 

Randip Singh

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May 25, 2005
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Guys please read Dasam Granth and make up your minds. I have read and I have noted the following:

1) Dasam Granth is a collection of the poems by Guruji and the poets in Guruji court.

2) They were designed to inspire a meek and servile Hindu populace who had newly become Sikh. For the new Sikh the refrence point would be Hindu lore.

3) Guruji in no way acknowledges the Hindu Gods as Gods per say. He infact says they became victims of Kaal i.e. time, that means they died. God cannot die because he is Akaal Moorat. Therefore they were some holy people in the past.

4) Much of Dasam Granth is metephorical.

5) Understand the historical context in which it was written.

6) It was acnowledged as not equal to SGGSji hence no verses from it are there.

7) When terms live Shiv and Raam are used they are to describe God in a way the Hindu populace at that time understood. Guruji used it illustratively, not as actually meaning God. See point 3.

8) No point arguing untill you read it fully.
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh
Above is not description of God as per Gurmat. That is description of liqor taking, bhung grinding, angry, evil, mahakaal which dasam granth says is God.

who else grinds Bhang,who else take liquer,who else is evil and who else is angrey all is but God.Who else does kill death by giving self manifestation an eternity?
ਪੰਨਾ 1350, ਸਤਰ 1
ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਖਲਕ ਖਲਕ ਮਹਿ ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਠਾਂਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
खालिकु खलक खलक महि खालिकु पूरि रहिओ स्रब ठांई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Kẖālik kẖalak kẖalak meh kẖālik pūr rahi­o sarab ṯẖāʼn­ī. ||1|| rahā­o.
The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation, totally pervading and permeating all places. ||1||Pause||
ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
ਮਹਲਾ
महला ५ ॥
Mehlā 5.
Fifth Mehl:

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਖਾਲਕੁ ਖਲਕ ਮਹਿ ਖਲਕ ਵਸੈ ਰਬ ਮਾਹਿ
फरीदा खालकु खलक महि खलक वसै रब माहि ॥
Farīḏā kẖālak kẖalak meh kẖalak vasai rab māhi.
Fareed, the Creator is in the Creation, and the Creation abides in God.

ਮੰਦਾ ਕਿਸ ਨੋ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਾਂ ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਕੋਈ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੭੫॥
मंदा किस नो आखीऐ जां तिसु बिनु कोई नाहि ॥७५॥
Manḏā kis no ākẖī­ai jāʼn ṯis bin ko­ī nāhi. ||75||
Whom can we call bad? There is none without Him. ||75||

Ang 1381

And Dear Bhai Randip Singh Ji das also use to think that Ram and Siam Kavi were of Guru's court as das got from book by prof Sahib Singh Ji.But he got this from Dasham Granth Sahib Ji.while there are separate writings of Senapati Ji,Kavi Kanakn etc.

But anyway das respects the views of all brothers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
May 25, 2005
2,935
2,950
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And Dear Bhai Randip Singh Ji das also use to think that Ram and Siam Kavi were of Guru's court as das got from book by prof Sahib Singh Ji.But he got this from Dasham Granth Sahib Ji.while there are separate writings of Senapati Ji,Kavi Kanakn etc.

But anyway das respects the views of all brothers.

I implore you to read the translations by Dr Dharam Singh and Dr Jodh Singh before commenting.

Read the foreward, both you and Khalsa Fauj, and then come here and discuss.

Below is Page 98 of Sri Dasam Granth and it makes very very clear there is only one God! Rest all become victims of Kal = Time >>>>ultimately death.

BHUJANG PRAYAAT STANZA

ਸ੍ਰਿਜੇ ਸੇਤਜੰ ਜੇਰਜੰ ਉਤਭੁਜੇਵੰ ॥ ਰਚੇ ਅੰਭਜੰ ਖੰਡ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ ਏਵੰ ॥
स्रिजे सेतजं जेरजं उतभुजेवं ॥ रचे अमभजं खंड ब्रहमंड एवं ॥
Thou hast created the Svetaja, Jeraju and Uddahhujja division of creation. Like this Thou hast created the Andaja division and also the regions and universes.

ਦਿਸਾ ਬਿਦਿਸਾਯੰ ਜਿਮੀ ਆਸਮਾਣੰ ॥ ਚਤੁਰ ਬੇਦ ਕਥਿਅੰ ਕੁਰਾਣੰ ਪੁਰਾਣੰ ॥੨੪॥
दिसा बिदिसायं जिमी आसमाणं ॥ चतुर बेद कथिअं कुराणं पुराणं ॥२४॥
Thou hast also created the directions, the indivcations, the earth and the sky. Thou hast also related the four Vedas, the Quran and the Puranas.24.

ਰਚੇ ਰੈਣ ਦਿਵਸੰ ਥਪੇ ਸੂਰ ਚੰਦੰ ॥ ਠਟੇ ਦਈਵ ਦਾਨੋ ਰਚੇ ਬੀਰ ਬ੍ਰਿੰਦੰ ॥
रचे रैण दिवसं थपे सूर चंदं ॥ ठटे दईव दानो रचे बीर ब्रिंदं ॥
Thou hast created night and day and established the sun and moon. Thou hast created gods and demons of the mighty Death hath subdued all.

ਕਰੀ ਲੋਹ ਕਲਮੰ ਲਿਖਿਓ ਲੇਖ ਮਾਥੰ ॥ ਸਬੈ ਜੇਰ ਕੀਨੇ ਬਲੀ ਕਾਲ ਹਾਥੰ ॥੨੫॥
करी लोह कलमं लिखिओ लेख माथं ॥ सबै जेर कीने बली काल हाथं ॥२५॥
Thou hast created the pen to write on the tablet and hast recorded the writ on the forehead. The hand of the mighty Death hath subdued all. 25.

ਕਈ ਮੇਟ ਡਾਰੇ ਉਸਾਰੇ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਉਪਾਰੇ ਗੜੇ ਫੇਰ ਮੇਟੇ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
कई मेट डारे उसारे बनाए ॥ उपारे गड़े फेर मेटे उपाए ॥
He hath effaced many and then made (created) others. He destroys the created ones and then creates after effacing.

ਕ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਕਾਲ ਜੂ ਕੀ ਕਿਨੂ ਨ ਪਛਾਨੀ ॥ ਘਨਿਯੋ ਪੈ ਬਿਹੈ ਹੈ ਘਨਿਯੋ ਪੈ ਬਿਹਾਨੀ ॥੨੬॥
क्रिया काल जू की किनू न पछानी ॥ घनियो पै बिहै है घनियो पै बिहानी ॥२६॥
None could comprehend the working of Death (KAL). Many have experienced it and many will experience it.26.

ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਮੇਟਿ ਡਾਰੇ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
किते क्रिसन से कीट कोटै बनाए ॥ किते राम से मेटि डारे उपाए ॥
Somewhere He hath created millions of the servants like Krishna. Somewhere He hath effaced and then created (many) like Rama.


ਮਹਾਦੀਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਿਥੀ ਮਾਂਝ ਹੂਏ ॥ ਸਮੈ ਆਪਨੀ ਆਪਨੀ ਅੰਤ ਮੂਏ ॥੨੭॥
महादीन केते प्रिथी मांझ हूए ॥ समै आपनी आपनी अंत मूए ॥२७॥
Many Muhammads had been on the earth. They were born and then died in their own times. 27.

ਜਿਤੇ ਅਉਲੀਆ ਅੰਬੀਆ ਹੋਇ ਬੀਤੇ ॥ ਤਿਤਿਓ ਕਾਲ ਜੀਤਾ ਨ ਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਜੀਤੇ ॥
जिते अउलीआ अमबीआ होइ बीते ॥ तितिओ काल जीता न ते काल जीते ॥
All the Prophets and saints of the past were conquered by Death (KAL), but none could conquer it (him).


ਜਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹੁਇ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਏ ॥ ਤਿਤਿਓ ਕਾਲ ਖਾਪਿਓ ਨ ਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਘਾਏ ॥੨੮॥
जिते राम से क्रिसन हुइ बिसन आए ॥ तितिओ काल खापिओ न ते काल घाए ॥२८॥
All the incarnations of Vishnu like Rama and Krishan were destroyed by KAL, but they could not destroy him. 28.


ਜਿਤੇ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਸੇ ਚੰਦ੍ਰ ਸੇ ਹੋਤ ਆਏ ॥ ਤਿਤਿਓ ਕਾਲ ਖਾਪਾ ਨ ਤੇ ਕਾਲਿ ਘਾਏ ॥
जिते इंद्र से चंद्र से होत आए ॥ तितिओ काल खापा न ते कालि घाए ॥
All the indras and Chandras (moons) who came into being were destroyed by KAL, but they could not destroy him.


ਜਿਤੇ ਔਲੀਆ ਅੰਬੀਆ ਗੌਸ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਸਭੈ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਅੰਤ ਦਾੜਾ ਤਲੈ ਹੈਂ ॥੨੯॥
जिते औलीआ अमबीआ गौस ह्वै हैं ॥ सभै काल के अंत दाड़ा तलै हैं ॥२९॥
All those Prophets, saints and hermits, who came into being, were all ultimately crushed under the grinder tooth of KAL.29.


ਜਿਤੇ ਮਾਨਧਾਤਾਦਿ ਰਾਜਾ ਸੁਹਾਏ ॥ ਸਭੈ ਬਾਂਧ ਕੈ ਕਾਲ ਜੇਲੈ ਚਲਾਏ ॥
जिते मानधातादि राजा सुहाए ॥ सभै बांध कै काल जेलै चलाए ॥
All the glorious kings like Mandhata were all bound down and thrown in the noose of KAL.

ਜਿਨੈ ਨਾਮ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਉਚਾਰੋ ਉਬਾਰੇ ॥ ਬਿਨਾ ਸਾਮ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਲਖੇ ਕੋਟਿ ਮਾਰੇ ॥੩੦॥
जिनै नाम ता को उचारो उबारे ॥ बिना साम ता की लखे कोटि मारे ॥३०॥
Those who have remembered the Name of the Lord, have been saved, without coming under His refuge, millions are considered as having been killed by KAL.30.
 
Sep 29, 2006
11
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gurufateh

can anyone put light on the followings
1.. what is the meaning of halal according to Islam.why it is necessary for muslims eat halal meat?????

2.According to Islam God is above all and he is almighty.then why shatan misled Adam And eve??/

I got many queries like this but step by step i would like to put it and i will apperciate if any of my scienctific muslim brother put soem lights on it
 
Apr 4, 2007
934
29
gurufateh

can anyone put light on the followings
1.. what is the meaning of halal according to Islam.why it is necessary for muslims eat halal meat?????

2.According to Islam God is above all and he is almighty.then why shatan misled Adam And eve??/

I got many queries like this but step by step i would like to put it and i will apperciate if any of my scienctific muslim brother put soem lights on it


i would recommend that you start a new thread for these questions... be sure to put a title that is relevant to your questions. otherwise people might not see it to answer.

gurfateh!
 
Sep 29, 2006
11
0
Islam and science

gurufateh.
I am engineer frm india

Many times i have seen muslims discussing that Quran is the only scientific religion in the world, and with this tendency they invite people from others religions to accept Islam. I have some queries can any scientific muslim brother or sister put some light on my following questions

1.. what is the meaning of halal according to Islam.why it is necessary for muslims eat halal meat????? what is the science behind eating Halal meat????


I got many queries like this but step by step i would like to put it and i will apperciate if any of my scienctific muslim brother put soem lights on it
 
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