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Hinduism Hindu Legends

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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I want to know about why "Goddess" Kali is satisfied only by sacrificial rites - human sacrifice and animal sacrifice. How did all such rites start. Even the aboroginies of pacific islands have such animal sacrifices to appease the Gods. And what about the Muslim Korban day when they put down an animal to take the sins away.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Jun 17, 2004
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I want to know about why "Goddess" Kali is satisfied only by sacrificial rites - human sacrifice and animal sacrifice. How did all such rites start. Even the aboroginies of pacific islands have such animal sacrifices to appease the Gods. And what about the Muslim Korban day when they put down an animal to take the sins away.

The answer is never simple...She may be the ferocious aspect of Durga, and other things as well.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Mother of the universe, Motherland
[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Tapan Raychaudhuri[/FONT]

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I remember a small terracotta image of the mother goddess Durga in her role as Mahishamardini, the slayer of the buffalo demon. I had seen this exquisite piece from Midnapur in Bengal at an exhibition on loan from somewhere else, probably the Victoria and Albert. I choose it as the starting point for this article on the role and changing perceptions of the deity in the cultural concerns of Bengali Hindus, the most persistent and ardent worshippers of the mother goddess in her several forms. She is worshipped especially as Durga Mahishamardini, who is perceived, for reasons which are not entirely clear, as the benign manifestation. Her more terrifying counterpart, Kali, the dark and naked goddess, rejoices only in wreaths of human heads. The topic, I think, might be of some interest to an international audience, not merely because there are some eighty million Bengali Hindus in this world, but because this ethnic group was probably the first non-European people in modern times to respond, often in very complex and unexpected ways, to contact with the West. The changing role of Durga and Kali in their political concerns in the course of the last two centuries is quite central to that unlikely story.

Worship of the Mother Goddess in Bengal, as elsewhere in the subcontinent, combines at least two very different traditions — the myths regarding gods and goddesses as contained in the body of sacred literature known as the Puranas and the highly abstract theological notions which merge into and explain those myths and constitute the basis for mystical regimes. I say at least, because beliefs and practices unrelated to the pantheon of Indo-Aryan deities are also believed to have contributed to these cults. The goddess Durga is known among other things as sarvasavaranam bhagavati, the goddess Bhagavati of the Savaras, a tribe of hunters. I shall ignore these ‘tribal’ influences, because this article is not meant to cover the complex history of Durga worship. I shall refer briefly to some aspects of that history only to clarify the context of my statements.


Of the two traditions I have mentioned, the one which is most evident in popular practice, especially in modern times, is traceable to the Puranas. The legend of Durga goes further back in time, in fact to the Vedic literature of pre-Christian millennia. The Aranyaka section of the Taittiriya Upanishad describes one goddess Durga who is resplendent like the raging fire. But the text which celebrates the glory of Durga as she is now worshipped is known as Devimahatmya, i.e., the glory of the goddess. It consists of thirteen chapters of the Markandeya Purana which probably dates back to the fifth century of the Christian era. In Bengal, this Puranic text, popularly known as the Chandi, describing inter alia the battle between the buffalo demon and the goddess which ends in the latter’s victory and the former’s destruction, is read out during the worship of the deity spread over three days in autumn. The goddess whose victory is thus celebrated is Mahamaya, the grand illusion which makes desire for possessions and procreation the innate quality of human beings and is thus responsible for the unsatisfactory and transient nature of this life. Her manifestation assumes many forms including that of the fierce deity, Kali. Her other name, according to the Purana, is Katyayani, Durga being an epithet: for she who delivers from misfortune. The worshipper also knows her as Bhagavati, the feminine of Bhagavan, the supreme deity.


The story of her triumph projects one particular strand in the mythology of ancient India, that of virodha bhakti, devotion manifest as its opposite, enmity. The Kalikapurana tells of an act of indiscretion by the mighty buffalo demon, Mahishasura. Dressed as a female, he seduced the disciple of a great sage who uttered an appropriate curse — that the demon would die at the hands of a female. He dreamt that the goddess Bhagavati with sixteen arms had cleft his head in two and was drinking the blood which poured forth. He considered this a great privilege and prayed to the goddess for a favour — that he should get a share of what humans offered her at the time of worship. The Devi granted her future victim’s prayer. The deity killed the buffalo demon not once but three times. On the third and last of these sacred occasions the deity appeared as Ugrachanda, the fiercely angry one with ten arms. This is the form in which she is worshiped. But the story does not end there because the demon saw her destroyer as a deity with a thousand arms. ‘Ten’, the commentators explain, is a notional figure connoting many. And a creature suffering death for the third time should of course be excused for exaggerating the number of arms possessed by his slayer. But his threefold death was well worth it. For as promised by the goddess, she secured for the poor devil a due share of her devotees’ offerings. The image of the avenging goddess as worshiped by her devotees includes that of the buffalo demon albeit at the receiving end of her ten weapons as also the claws of her mount, the lion. The demon too is an object of worship — a tribute to the principle of virodha bhakti, devotion manifest as enmity, and a characteristically Indian paradigm seeking to reconcile irreconcilables.


Two other Puranic myths are part of the belief system which sustains the worship of Durga Bhagavati, especially in Bengal. One refers to the legend of Sati, Siva’s consort and the daughter of King Daksha. Siva, anguished by her death, takes the body on his shoulders and performs his cosmic dance of destruction until Vishnu, god the preserver, cuts the body up with his chakra or wheel into fifty-two pieces. These pieces are scattered all over India and fifty-two holy sites or pithasthanas are created thereby. This legend was mobilised for purposes of political indoctrination in the nineteenth century. The other myth concerns Uma, daughter of the Himalayas who successfully performed great penance to win Siva as her husband. Bhagavati as worshipped in Bengal is also Uma. The fact, as we shall see later, had interesting implications for the emotional affects associated with Durga Puja.


The myths concerning Kali worship derive from at least three different sources. According to the Devimahatmya, she is a minor emanation from the angry third eye of the goddess during her battle with the demon hosts of Sumbha and Nisumbha. With her lolling tongue, her role was to lick up every drop of blood of the demon general Raktavija, for otherwise each drop would produce countless clones. The Kalika Purana, on the other hand, describes her as Siva’s consort and so do several other Tantric texts.

The Little Magazine - The Rite Stuff - Tapan Raychaudhuri

And some other links:

Kali is usually depicted as naked, blood-thirsty, and wild-haired. Records of Kali's worship date back less than 2,000 years and it is widely assumed by scholars that she represents a survival of a Dravidian (pre-Aryan) goddess and is thought of as the great creatrix of the ancient Indian pantheon as she is well over 2000 years old. Kali is thought to be a pre-Aryan goddess, belonging to the civilization of the Indus Valley, because there is no evidence that Aryan people ever raised a female deity to the rank that she held in the Indus and currently maintains in Hinduism. Her dark skin evidences the fact that she predated the lighter-skinned Aryan invasion of the darker-skinned inhabitants of the Indian sub-continent. This conflict became the subject of many myths handed down about Kali's fierce passion in defending her people against the invaders. Kali's passion and fierceness are due both to her ties to the pre-Aryan Great Mother Goddess, as well as her place at Shiva's side as his consort, which gives her the power of the Shakti, or female energy. However the Aryan Invasion Theory of India's origins is currently in dispute amongst historians.
The Aryan invaders introduced into India's culture the patriarchal gods that they had brought with them, but various matriarchal tribes, such as the Shabara of Orissa , continues worshipping Kali. She was probably an aboriginal deity of vegetation and agriculture; but evidence that animal and human sacrifices were offered to her suggests that Kali became a fertility deity. Animal sacrifices are still made to her, notably in temples such as the one at Kalighat in Calcutta, where a goat is immolated in her honor every day. On her feast in the fall, goats and buffalos are the usual victims, along with certain types of vegetation. Although human sacrifices have been banned, there are occasional reports of alleged sacrifices to authorities from remote areas.

http://www.dollsofindia.com/kali.htm

[FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1] O Mother, even a dullard becomes a poet who meditates upon thee raimented with space, three-eyed, creatrix of the three worlds, whose waist is beautiful with a girdle made of numbers of dead men's arms, and who on the breast of a corpse, as thy couch in the cremation ground, enjoyest Mahakala - Karpuradistotra, VII (Woodroffe tr)

[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Kali's paramount place of worship is in the cremation ground, preferably at the dead of night, on a suitable day of the waning Moon. Here, her nature becomes clear and apparent. For an adept in the worship, the whole world is a cremation ground, and She, the true form of time, who by herself creates and destroys all, is personified as the pyre. There, after life, all mortals and their wishes, dreams and reflections come to their fruition, a pile of worthless ashes.[/SIZE]

[/FONT]http://www.shivashakti.com/kali.htm

he blood-smeared image of Kali is after she killed the demon Raktavera. According to Hindu Mythology, Lord Brahma granted the boon to Raktavera that for every drop of his blood that fell on ground hundreds of demons like him would be produced. Thus the only way of slaying Raktavera was by not allowing even a drop of his blood to fall on the ground. Thereby Kali pierced him with a spear and drank all his blood as it gushed out. Kali once gave free rein to her blind lust for destruction. To stop the world from being destroyed Lord Shiva brought himself to the feet of Kali. On sensing her husband beneath her feet she stopped and thus the world was saved. She acquired her name Kali meaning ‘conqueror of time’ as she subdued her husband Lord Shiva by trampling over him. This way Devi the symbol of fertility conquered Shiva, the inexorable destroyer, who was equated with time.http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/maa-kali-puja-bidrohi-barasat2

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Feb 14, 2006
512
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jeetijohal writes: "A response to Harjas... Women genetically tend toward long winded ranting when they do not understand the topic or are consciously evading the issue. Scientists have proven the greater male genes a female acquires the higher the intelligence and aesthetics. Women are generally inferior in comparative studies with males of similar socio economic backgrounds...

You are indeed a classic ardent hypocritical newly literated feminist, and apparently american."

Why do the moderators tolerate personal attacks on this forum?

For the record I am not a feminist, nor have I ever been. I am a registered nurse and have worked Emergency Room before and dealt with more trauma to women and children than you would ever care to know. I also have studied world religions for decades. I think that entitles me to share an opinion on the subject. How unfortunate discussion is drowned out in favor of insults and personal attacks.


Maybe after you've worked the burn unit and seen a wife and children after they've been set on fire by a psychotic husband, maybe after you've seen enough of that degree of hatred and abuse, it would give you a different perspective.


I don't believe I'm inferior in any way to any man, with the exception of physical strength and stature. I am not a man and don't want to be. Women compliment and are a blessing to men. I was born with innate intelligence as a gift from God. Why should I pretend to be inferior to someone for fear of physical retaliation, threat or public shame from a culture which is hostile or degrading to me on account of being female? For the record, American isn't a culture. I was born with predominant Native American Indian ancestry. Our women are very strong and independant, while also being very loyal to the family. We have a matriarchal culture that stretches back for thousands of years. And we are a warrior people. Our women have always had to fight alongside the men for survival. And we are still fighting. Would you care to add racist insult to your current innuendo?

People who want women to be forced to pretend ignorance and powerlessness are absurd. These are the teachings and attitudes of slavers of the past generations, the destructive powers which stripped our cultures of language and identity and imposed barbarity, inferiority, subjugation and genocide. In the words of my ancestor Emiliano Zapata, "It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees." Our tribe was never defeated, even while being chased by 2 armies, the Mexican Army and the American Army. No one will put a slave mentality into my mind. I would destroy such a notion with my dying breath: for the sake of the dignity of children, for the poor, for the suffering, for hope in a brighter future, who can tolerate the attitude of a slave? I follow Guru Gobind Singh Ji and pray for the coming of Khalsa Raj and Guruji's Divine War against tyranny and demonic oppression. May I have such grace to fight and die in a war killing tyrants and slavers and torturers.

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Fighting slaughter, poverty and oppression as indigenous people for 500 years and going strong! I know exactly who I am and where I come from. And I know that America as a nation has done it's fair share to destroy us. But we remain standing. So don't insult me with the perjorative label "American." The human soul is something beyond labels of cultures and nations and physicality. I am a child of God and Guru.

Los Angeles Immigration Reform Rally 2007

May Day Immigration Reform Protest

010206arrest.jpg


Immigration agency plans new family detention centers

More Detention Nightmares: Maggots in the Food at MTC’s Raymondville Prison

Serial killer of over 377 Mexican women never caught

MALCOLM X: Who Taught You To Hate Yourself?

The Situation of Immigrant Women Detained in the United States
The standards do not address the prevention of sexual assault or rape, or the treatment of detainees who have suffered such abuses prior to being taken into custody. In December 2006 the Department of Homeland Security’s Office of Inspector General released an audit of five immigrant detention facilities, finding that all five facilities violated some aspect of the detention standards.
Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General, Treatment of Immigration Detainees housed at Immigration and Customs Enforcement Facilities, December 2006. The Inspector General reported that detainees at all five facilities alleged physical, sexual, and verbal abuse by corrections officers, and criticized ICE for not addressing detainee reporting of abuse in its detention standards.

We've got more important issues to confront than debate the pretended inferiority of women.

81598689_b13a1c1fa3.jpg

Until there is a world of social justice for ALL, who can stay silent?
 

spnadmin

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Harjas ji

Believe me when I say that I came back to this comment about 6 times last night. It is troublesome to this mod. My problem was this -- and please correct my thinking if you deem it fit to do so. The content is not directed at anyone particular person. At first I thought it was a derogatory statement about you. And it may be that but just veiled enough to escape moderation based on Forum Rule 2 or 10. Therefore I did not delete it.

At this point, you and I have offered counterarguments to the perspective of jeetijohal ji. Your most recent comment goes right to the core of my concerns, that is for sure. I have witnessed first hand the unspeakable injury that can be done to women by psychotic men. It is not something I will ever be able to put aside or forget. It is not easy to read many of the statements in the thread. And one's horror has nothing to do with whether one is a feminist, but rather with one's capacity to empathize with the pain inflicted through spiritual ignorance and emotional depravity on another human being.

I don't see a forum rule broken. But I can be convinced by a good argument. Meanwhile, my guess is that there are scores of forum members who have drawn their own conclusions about this, and that their conclusions are morally centered and grounded in their own humanity.

Please do not take offense. Let's see how this can be addressed.

I have to make apologies to Forum Member Harjas ji for missing completely the point of the verbal attack -- yes it was on you directly. Post (formerly 103) has been deleted. And Jeetijohal you are advised to "Debate the issues and not the person."
 

mkm

SPNer
Mar 1, 2008
52
3
aad0002 ji
H R U ?
You have been very fair and open, I like that, now please reread this

"You are indeed a classic ardent hypocritical newly literated feminist, and apparently american. I refer to the above. " a quote from jeeti Kaur Johal

Isnt it a personal judgment on Harjas Bhain ji based on Miss/Mrs Johal's assumptive mind?
Isnt it an insulting approach towards a person who disagrees with her own small observation? Any one who writes against abuse on women and children is feminist? That is the base she is making in this case by stepping on decency?
 

Randip Singh

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[/FONT]

AAd ji Sikhism is not a playground to please the ego of the individual. Guru ji says "Ja tao prem khelan ka chao, Sir dhar tali gali mori aao". If ones purpose of joining Sikhism is for praise then it is a wrong choice.Sikhism is a spiritual journey that is designed to join one with its origin. [/FONT]

[/FONT]

I cannot belive you are making uch nasty horrid statements?

I cannot belive your arrogance?

What gives you the right to insulst aad in such a way? Are you so perfect that you are without Ego? I could say from some of the views you have expressed maybe you are better suited to Hindu Vaishnavism rather than Sikhism.

Please watch what you are saying and your veiled character assasination.:}--}:
 

Randip Singh

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Immense courage...! This fear of tackling rampant and hypocritical feminist not entirely dissimilar to the eunuch bullies prevalent in some parts of the Punjab is precisely why I responded so vehement ally to the so called oppression of women. Inequal according of disproportionate rights to certain privileged groups is unfair. Men suffer, they bear the burdens of maintain their households financially and generally die earlier than their wives. My strong views are largely distorted by the witnessing of cunning and manipulative women oppressing, dispiriting and ridiculing men into submission. I have placed my cards on the table although I firmly stand my ground. It is not an issue of my ego, but a real problem.

Women are the pillars of their households or the root of all discord and mayhem. I do not consider this a contentious issue in any way. A meritocracy is a society wherein all are governed by a moral code and doctrine and virtue is its own reward. I despise openly persons demanding special rights. There is no place in a fair society, unfortunately it is ill governed populations that become breeding grounds for extremism.

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman.

We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman.

We grow up stronger and wiser having drunk milk from the breast of woman.

Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings?

The woman is born from woman; there is none without her.

Only the One True Lord is without woman"


(Guru Nanak Dev, Var Asa, pg. 473)

:rolleyes:
 
Jan 6, 2007
285
11
UK
I cannot belive you are making uch nasty horrid statements?

I cannot belive your arrogance?

What gives you the right to insulst aad in such a way? Are you so perfect that you are without Ego? I could say from some of the views you have expressed maybe you are better suited to Hindu Vaishnavism rather than Sikhism.

Please watch what you are saying and your veiled character assasination.:}--}:

I do not have time for your childlike tantrums. Add ji appears to have been making progress, I suggest you come out of your shell, learn and grow up too.

We have two Gurus whose background is Hindu Vaishnavism. So you might as well discount them and their Bani. There are Bhagats and their bani too. [/FONT]I wonder where you intend to stop.

[/FONT]
I do not need not converse with you further on this issue.


[/FONT]
 
Jan 6, 2007
285
11
UK
"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman.

We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman.

We grow up stronger and wiser having drunk milk from the breast of woman.

Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings?

The woman is born from woman; there is none without her.

Only the One True Lord is without woman"


(Guru Nanak Dev, Var Asa, pg. 473)

:rolleyes:

Guru ji's message is right. There is nothing wrong with the woman. She is performing her duty.

One who is living a life in intoxication of Maya cannot be expected to think beyond the Horizon. We cannot think and understand beyond the parameters set by our Karmas.
 

Randip Singh

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I do not have time for your childlike tantrums. Add ji appears to have been making progress, I suggest you come out of your shell, learn and grow up too.

We have two Gurus whose background is Hindu Vaishnavism. So you might as well discount them and their Bani. There are Bhagats and their bani too. [/FONT]I wonder where you intend to stop.[/FONT]

I do not need not converse with you further on this issue.[/FONT]

Pot calling kettle black?

Actually it is in your post you claim to be an authority on Sikhism, and this is no childish tantrum but a warning I will not tolerate ANY more of your veiled attacks on our members. In anycase who are you to make claims on who is making progress and who is not?

Back to topic.

Please tell us who the "Vaisnav" beliving Guru's were and cite actual historical evidence. Also tell us about the "Vaishnav Bhaghats"? While you are at it tell us about the non Vaishnav Bhaghats too!!

One who is living a life in intoxication of Maya cannot be expected to think beyond the Horizon. We cannot think and understand beyond the parameters set by our Karmas.

Yes I often read the writings on web of such misfortunates, but they usually run when challenged. :p
 

spnadmin

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Jun 17, 2004
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I do not have time for your childlike tantrums. Add ji appears to have been making progress, I suggest you come out of your shell, learn and grow up too.


[/FONT]

Brother Ekmusafir ji

With great respect I say this: I am not making progress. Anything that happens happens according to His hukam and in His time with His grace. This you already know.

Fateh!
 
Jan 6, 2007
285
11
UK
One who is living a life in intoxication of Maya cannot be expected to think beyond the Horizon. We cannot think and understand beyond the parameters set by our Karmas.

I do not need not converse with you further on this issue.

Nothing further to say to you. By the Wisdom of My Gurus.

Brother Ekmusafir ji

With great respect I say this: I am not making progress. Anything that happens happens according to His hukam and in His time with His grace.

Fateh!

Modesty! Your statement is true.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
1,609
The myths concerning Kali worship derive from at least three different sources. According to the Devimahatmya, she is a minor emanation from the angry third eye of the goddess during her battle with the demon hosts of Sumbha and Nisumbha. With her lolling tongue, her role was to lick up every drop of blood of the demon general Raktavija, for otherwise each drop would produce countless clones. The Kalika Purana, on the other hand, describes her as Siva’s consort and so do several other Tantric texts.


This almost tells me that there were fiction-writers during that time and that Kali was never a factual history. The mind-set was different therefore perception followed a similar trend. But nature and universal laws never change. The forces of nature have always done what they are still doing today.
 

spnadmin

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Actually NamJap ji

My entire perspective on Hindu mythology, devas and devetas, has altered dramatically as a result of this thread. This is not the first time I have experienced a transformation like this here on SPN and it stokes my interest to know more.

One thing that has happened -- I am beginning to see the human construct and practice of "sacrifice" as something more than appeasement of a god or gods. The fiction writing that you speak -- astute observation by you -- is more than storytelling. My view of that has also changed. It is more like a form of narrative therapy. An entire culture telling of its deepest fears in story, the way an individual tells his/her story to an psychoanalyst. Much of it may be untrue. Some of it may be a concoction. And all of it is meaningful.

But I am glad for Guru Nanak -- he has liberated the world -- the world may not realize it.

Fateh jio, NamJap ji!
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
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1,609
With her lolling tongue, her role was to lick up every drop of blood of the demon general Raktavija, for otherwise each drop would produce countless clones.

One could decipher this phrase in the following manner:-

Volcanic eruptions as the Demon Raktavija
Lava flow as his blood
Ocean waves as Kali's rolling tongue
clones as solidified lava that look like statues.

Just my creative thinking at work here.
 
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