• Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Hinduism Hindu Legends

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
NanJap ji

Your imagery is not my imagery in this particular example. However, your imagery is very provcative and you may have hidden poetic talent. I am serious and not kidding around. Why don't you write a poem about Kali taking your insights and building on them.
 

pk70

Writer
SPNer
Feb 25, 2008
1,582
627
USA
namjap ji

I shall call your effort sculpturing new symbolism out of the old one. A long smile is glowing on my face, thanks.. Why do I not take interest in these things I wonder.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
Feb 14, 2006
512
31
Namjap veerji,

I've been meaning to get back to the original discussion. :happy:

You asked was the Sikh religion created to defend the Hindu religion. And that is a moot point because it responds to a particular segment of Hindutva which tries to incorporate Sikh religion into a Hindu framework for political reasons and thus devolving the independant identity and autonomy of Sikhs. But it stands on a particular platform and still expresses something crucial.

Here is the fine point: The Mughals were killing and torturing to compel conversions. And this stemmed out of the ideology that Islam had the One True God, therefore people who were Hindus were serving fake gods and going to hell. So anything was justified in order to compel people to convert. In this historical scenario, Guruji rose up and quite literally did, defend the Hindu religion. Does this mean the entire Sikh identity is developed to defend Hindu dharam? No, that would be simplistic. But it is still saying something powerful as a teaching to us. If Guruji thought that Hindu religion was fake in itself, why would He bother to defend people's right to practice a fake and deluded religion? Think about it. If you were a soldier called to defend something, would you be willing to fight and die for the right of people to practice a deluded and fake religion?

You see, it was precisely this rationale that justified the excesses of the Mughal occupation, and that was, in their eyes, Hindu religion was fake, deluded, superstitious, offensive to the One God. But Guruji never says this anywhere in His bani. So the point I am making is Guruji defended Hindu religion because 1. Hindu people (and all people) are precious to Him and He corrects injustices. 2. Hindu religion is a valid path to God for Hindu people, therefore it too is something to be respected and upheld with dignity, even at the cost of your own life. So I cannot interject a devaluation or even invalidation of Hindu religion in this example. It would seem to be a "validation" of the highest order, that a Sikh Guru would go to such lengths, and leave a legacy for the world, that Hindu religion when it is oppressed, is something worth dying for.

With this kind of example, we can certainly analyze the implications and meaning of Vedantic teaching in the light of Gurbani, but the wholesale Abrahamic disqualification of Vedantic teaching or even Hindu devas as fake or immoral sounds like ideology of the Mughals. You certainly aren't willing to protect or value a teaching with your life when you have that degree of negative attitude about it. So I would think with Guruji's example is teaching us to keep perspective. While Guruji's bani makes corrections and clarifications of errors and corruptions in what amounts to all religious paths and scriptures of the world, Hindu, Muslim and Kateb (Jewish, Christian); He is not DEVALUING like the Mughals did. Otherwise we should have that attitude as Sikhs, that I have the ONE TRUE GOD and everybody else has an inferior misunderstanding. And this was not the message of Gurbani at all. So if Hindu religion isn't fake, why do we say it is? And do we dare proclaim that our holy Gurbani is fake too because it speaks about mythological concepts which we can feel free to take with a grain of salt?

Just consider the implications of this line of reasoning. First are the Abrahamic and arrogant assumptions against Hindu dharam, unnecessarily invalidating even the framework of concepts which Gurbani uses to establish the Sikh dharam, which does have an ancient Vedic source. It is second denying the validity of concepts which cannot be verified or understood by conventional Western logic (naturally, because these are Indic teachings and pertain to worlds and realities which Western science denies are credible.)

So where would Sikhs get such a notion about Gurbani that elements of it are mythical and thus, dismissable?


Consider the Vedic origin of Shabad. Guruji didn't invent the concept of Shabad, it was already present in the Vedas as a way that sound current could attune the atma-body-mind to the Divine Presence. The Vedas teach that the Gurmantaras which are rooted in the Shabad can affect your realization and lead to the fourth state, turiya. Gurbani also talks about this. If you relegate Shiva and Shakti as mythological concepts only, then Shabad which has a Vedantic source must also be relegated to mythology too.. and then you lose the basis of Sikhism, which is the yoga of sound current, uniting with the God through Naam Jap. Guruji didn't "invent a new religion." Guruji was a Master of spirituality because He is merged in the Parabrahm. Guruji understood fully the old and the new, the origination and the reform, the different cultures, the errors and contradictions and fully realized Truth which is the Divine. Sikhism isn't just another "ism." It's Living, vibrant Self-realized Truth. And Truth doesn't contradict Truth, it only contradicts error. Gurbani contradicts all the errors of all the religions, and it has it's basis on all the Truth of all the religions. All that religion is, a vehicle by which mankind seeks to know God. Guruji knows God. And He knows the Truth in the universality of all religion. Thats why Sikh"ism" respects and has tolerance for, even appreciation for the spirituality of other people and other paths. Sikhism doesn't redefine the meaning of the color "red" for example. Why should Sikhs interpret Gurbani to redefine the most basic and fundamental concepts in Gurbani with the sole objective to alienate them from their Vedantic mooring?

That seems to me the political editors at work to recreate a teaching more in line with their own political understanding, and in no way brings about deeper spiritual understanding of the concepts themselves. When yoga no longer means yoga, when chakr no longer means chakr, when dasm duar no longer means dasm duar, when Shabad Naam and vibration with the sound current of the Naad no longer have any relevant meaning... how can anyone say he speaks with understanding about Gurbani?

In the tantra system the purva mimamsaka's theory of the eternality of shabda (sound) and artha (meaning) is accepted. They go a little further to assert that shabda and artha are the embodiment of Shiva and Shakti as the universe itself. They name their original source as shabdartha-brahman instead of a mere shabda-brahman. For, that is the source of both the objects and their descriptions. Words and their meanings - what they denote in the objective world - are the variety of manifestations of shakti.

As sound is of the nature of the varnas (syllables) composing it, the tantra affirms that the creative force of the universe resides in all the letters of the alphabet. The different letters symbolize the different functions of that creative force, and their totality is designated as matrika or the "mother in essence". Thus Tantra sees the mantras as not just a mere combination of whimsical sounds but as the subtle form of the presiding deity; and the real purpose of one’s meditation through the mantra is to communicate with the deity of that particular mantra.

Just as a sankalpa - a pure thought - has to pass through several stages before it actually manifests as concrete creative force, the sound of a particular mantra also has to pass through several stages before it is fully experienced by the listener in perfection. These stages are termed as para, pashyanti, madhyama and vaikhari. Each level of sound corresponds to a level of existence, and one's experience of sound depends upon the refinement of one's consciousness.

It takes a realized consciousness to experience the full range of sound, the full range of existence. The seers who can comprehend the four stages of sound are known as Manishis. The higher three forms of shabda are described in the Rig Veda as hidden in "guha", or within the self, whereas the forth is the external manifested speech, known as laukika bhasha.

These four levels of sound correspond to four states of consciousness. Para represents the transcendental consciousness. Pashyanti represents the intellectual consciousness. Madhyama represents the mental consciousness. And Vaikhari represents the physical consciousness. These states of consciousness correspond with the four states known technically as jagrat, svapna, susupti, and turiya - or the wakeful state, the dreaming state, the dreamless state, and the transcendental state.

Shabda-brahman in its absolute nature is called para. In manifestation the subtle is always the source of the gross, and thus from para-vak manifests the other three forms of sound.
Vedic Conception of Sound

~Bhul chak maaf karni ji
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
31
Namjapji writes: "According to Gurbani Shiva, Vishnu, or Brahma were kings of their respective times. However they are not given any importance or significance at all. Gurmat does not accept them as God nor as incarnations of God. Like any other human beings, they had virtues and they had weaknesses....


The myths concerning Kali worship derive from at least three different sources. According to the Devimahatmya, she is a minor emanation from the angry third eye of the goddess during her battle with the demon hosts of Sumbha and Nisumbha. With her lolling tongue, her role was to lick up every drop of blood of the demon general Raktavija, for otherwise each drop would produce countless clones. The Kalika Purana, on the other hand, describes her as Siva’s consort and so do several other Tantric texts.


This almost tells me that there were fiction-writers during that time and that Kali was never a factual history. The mind-set was different therefore perception followed a similar trend. But nature and universal laws never change. The forces of nature have always done what they are still doing today.

Gurbani does NOT say the Hindu Trimurti were mere human Kings. It very expressly says they are gods.


ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਹੈ ਮਾਇਆ ॥
dhaevee dhaevaa mool hai maaeiaa ||
The source, the root, of the gods and goddesses is Maya.

ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਜਿੰਨਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
sinmrith saasath jinn oupaaeiaa ||
For them, the Simritees and the Shaastras were composed.

ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਪਸਰਿਆ ਸੰਸਾਰੇ ਆਇ ਜਾਇ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੨॥
kaam krodhh pasariaa sansaarae aae jaae dhukh paavaniaa ||2||
Sexual desire and anger are diffused throughout the universe. Coming and going, people suffer in pain. ||2||

ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਗਿਆਨ ਰਤਨੁ ਇਕੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
this vich giaan rathan eik paaeiaa ||
The jewel of spiritual wisdom was placed within the universe.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਇਆ ॥
gur parasaadhee mann vasaaeiaa ||
By Guru's Grace, it is enshrined within the mind.
~SGGS Ji p. 129


Allow me to address certain erroneous interpretations:

~Many people seem to think that God or gods should be "godly" and thus conform to a set of cultural preconditions.

Okay, of course Vaheguru is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient (All-powerful, All-pervading, All-knowing). So why do these demi-gods run around acting like people? And so from the description, people think these gods are mythological.


Let me try to make this a bit clearer. First, Hinduism is a conglomeration of many philosophies some of which don't even agree. So to say, Hinduism is this, Hinduism is that is a generalization and may not be entirely accurate. Even Gurbani mentions the different Vedas and the disputes among scholars. But just to the simple definition of God or gods, lets look closer, because I think a majority of misunderstandings derive from people having a differnt conception of what it means.


Gurbani doesn't say there are no gods. It says that all creation, including the gods derives from the Supreme uncreated Parabrahm. If you read the Vedic texts or the Mahabharata, you will see the explanation given for the Supreme as exactly like that given in Gurbani. The difference is in major schools some will say the Supreme is Brahma, and other Vishnu. Gurbani says that the Supreme is beyond even Brahma and Vishnu. It doesn't say Brahma and Vishnu are mythological figures of human minds. It goes to the crux of the argument in the different Hindu schools and says the Ik Oangkar Satinaam is the Supreme, not the manifestations which are born into Time in order to manifest, and thus caught in the materiality of Time, the three gunas and Maya.

That is a fundamentally different description.


ਖਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਥਾਪਿ ਉਥਾਪਨਹਾਰਾ ॥
khin mehi thhaap outhhaapanehaaraa ||
In an instant, He establishes and disestablishes.

ਆਪਿ ਇਕੰਤੀ ਆਪਿ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥
aap eikanthee aap pasaaraa ||
He Himself is the One, and He Himself is the Many.

ਲੇਪੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਗਜੀਵਨ ਦਾਤੇ ਦਰਸਨ ਡਿਠੇ ਲਹਨਿ ਵਿਜੋਗਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥
laep nehee jagajeevan dhaathae dharasan ddithae lehan vijogaa jeeo ||3||
Filth does not stick to the Giver, the Life of the World. Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of His Darshan, the pain of separation departs. ||3||
~SGGS Ji p. 108


The Oneness of the God in Gurbani has never been described in isolation. The One is many, and the many are one. Contrast that with the Creator God of the Abrahamic tradition. But the older traditions among Abrahamic religion which have been suppressed tell something similar to traditional Vedanta, that there is a Primary nirgun Creator God which is unmanifest, and that creation is the result of lower emanations (sargun manifestations) but that ultimately all is a part of that Primary nirgun. In the Gnostic tradition which has greatly influenced Buddhism, and was itself greatly influenced by Zoroastrianism and Vedanta the cross-cultural parallels are unmistakeable. The nirgun, unfathomable God created. And in that sargun manifest appearance of material creation were gods of varying levels of spiritual development, some of who could themselves "create." The creator god of this world, in the Gnostic tradition is called "sakla" meaning fool, because he thought that he alone was God, and thus sinned against the hierarchy. He was called the blind god, because he could not see that he too, was material manifestation of a deeper and more profound reality.

The Apocryphon of John:
"And when she (Pistis Sophia - Wisdom emanation) saw the consequence of her desire, it had changed into a form of a lion-faced serpent. And its eyes were like lightning fires...She cast it away from her, outside that place [the Pleroma], that no one of the immortal ones [the other Aeons] might see it, for she had created it in ignorance....And she called his name Yaltabaoth (The Abrahamic God Yahweh)..."
[The Nag Hammadi Library, James M. Robinson, Ed, pp.104 (Harper & Row, 1981, San Franscisco)]

This is the negative or inferior world-creator. In Gnosticism then, the Cosmos is thus seen as the result of a primordial error or accident; the only true existence being the Pleroma or transcendent order of Divinities. Metaphysically what this means is that, for the Gnostics, the Cosmos is not the result of a supreme God, as is taught by monotheism, but rather the creation of the very lowest and most minor of the emanated divinities, and even then an accidental creation at that.


ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਵੇਦ ਅਭਿਆਸਾ ॥
brehamaa mool vaedh abhiaasaa ||
Brahma is the founder of the study of the Vedas.

ਤਿਸ ਤੇ ਉਪਜੇ ਦੇਵ ਮੋਹ ਪਿਆਸਾ ॥
this thae oupajae dhaev moh piaasaa ||
From him emanated the gods, enticed by desire.

ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਭਰਮੇ ਨਾਹੀ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ॥੧॥
thrai gun bharamae naahee nij ghar vaasaa ||1||
They wander in the three qualities, and they do not dwell within their own home. ||1||
~SGGS Ji p. 230



ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਦੀਸੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਸਾਰੁ ॥
guramukh dheesai breham pasaar ||
The Gurmukh sees God pervading everywhere.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣੀਆਂ ਬਿਸਥਾਰੁ ॥
guramukh thrai guneeaaan bisathhaar ||
The Gurmukh knows that the universe is the extension of the three gunas, the three dispositions.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਦ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
guramukh naadh baedh beechaar ||
The Gurmukh reflects on the Sound-current of the Naad, and the wisdom of the Vedas.

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਘੋਰ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ॥੧॥
bin gur poorae ghor andhhaar ||1||
Without the Perfect Guru, there is only pitch-black darkness. ||1||
~SGGS Ji p. 1270



ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਸਪਤ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
sunnahu sapath paathaal oupaaeae ||
From the Primal Void, He created the seven nether regions.

ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਭਵਣ ਰਖੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਏ ॥
sunnahu bhavan rakhae liv laaeae ||
From the Primal Void, He established this world to lovingly dwell upon Him.

ਆਪੇ ਕਾਰਣੁ ਕੀਆ ਅਪਰੰਪਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਕੀਆ ਕਮਾਇਦਾ ॥੧੦॥
aapae kaaran keeaa aparanpar sabh thaero keeaa kamaaeidhaa ||10||
The Infinite Lord Himself created the creation. Everyone acts as You make them act, Lord. ||10||

ਰਜ ਤਮ ਸਤ ਕਲ ਤੇਰੀ ਛਾਇਆ ॥
raj tham sath kal thaeree shhaaeiaa ||
Your Power is diffused through the three gunas: raajas, taamas and satva.
~SGGS Ji p. 1038



ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਰੋਗੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਈ ॥
brehamaa bisan mehaadhaeo thrai gun rogee vich houmai kaar kamaaee ||
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva suffer from the disease of the three gunas - the three qualities; they do their deeds in egotism.

ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਏ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਨ ਚੇਤਹਿ ਬਪੁੜੇ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਈ ॥੨॥
jin keeeae thisehi n chaethehi bapurrae har guramukh sojhee paaee ||2||
The poor fools do not remember the One who created them; this understanding of the Lord is only obtained by those who become Gurmukh. ||2||
~SGGS Ji p. 735



If we have the misconception that devtas are "godly" in the respect that they are parallel to the Parabrahm, and their failure to not be caught in Maya and the three gunas makes them "no longer gods" we won't understand what Gurbani is saying.

Gurbani says the creation itself is made from the three gunas and Maya. Gurbani says the gods were made from the material manifestation of the three gunas and Maya. How can we be "shocked" because the gods clearly manifest lower qualities mixed with higher? Are they not a mirror of ourselves?


The other issue, is that from the modern Western scientific educational system, many people have a world-view which does not see any "gods." We look with microscopes and telescopes and... they're not there. So we tend to think they're fake, or unreal and so we call them "mythologies."


So here, I will diverge to share some things which someone of Native American ancestry would know, which is a decidedly distinct world-view from the Western. So please don't patronize me with comments about how English translations of Gurbani are errorneous and lead to a misunderstanding about the Hindu concepts in Sikh religion. I acknowledge that English translations are lacking and Gurbani can only be truly understood in the original Gurmukhi, and I am no Gurmukhi scholar. However, the interpretation I have is not based on the English translation, but on my years of studying Vedanta and Buddhist concepts, and something else... my awareness as a descendant of the peyote people of other worlds, and the entities which inhabit dimensions of our realm which are almost imperceivable. So I absolutely understand the truth of what Gurbani is saying about many devas and many realms, heaven and hell realms and Mahadevas. I don't look up at the sky and think "where are the gods?" I know that if someone opens his consciousness, he will lose the moorings of this materiality and perceive what is not perceived by scientific instrumentation alone. There are ancient gods. And they've always been a part of this creation. It has not to do with enlightenment to know this. But equally, it does not pertain to enlightenment not to know this. Gurbani says they are real. Ancient history of religions of the majority of human cultures have always known this. Only in modern societies with the dominance of the Abrahamic tradition is there a world-view which offends indigenous spiritual sentiments and tramples thousands of years of intuitive knowledge as "worthless," "hallucinatory," and "mythological."



ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਡੋਲਹਿ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨਾ ॥
dhaevee dhaevaa poojehi ddolehi paarabreham nehee jaanaa ||
You worship gods and goddesses, but you do not know the Supreme Lord God.
~SGGS Ji p. 332



Around 35,000 to 40,000 years ago humans underwent a sudden change, and the emergence of cave and rock paintings are evidence of this, said Han{censored}, who noted that some of their depictions were of part human/part animal beings. He believes these represent the supernatural entities, and through altered states (probably due to ingesting psilocybin mushrooms) humans learned advanced skills from their encounters with these beings.

Nowadays, shamans commonly have such altered state communications. They feel humanity is at a crossroads-- the West has lost contact with the spirit world, and many of the world's woes are due to this, Han{censored} reported. As part of his experiential research, he traveled to South America and took the psychedelic plant mixture ayahuasca. During one such episode, he described a confrontation with an alien being, but rather than being an extraterrestrial, he suggested it inhabits another dimension that can only be accessed during an altered state.

Shamanism & Ayahuasca: Graham Han{censored}


"Mainstream science just can't go there... we have the instrumentation inside our brains." ~Graham Han{censored}

"As the shamans say the supernatural world is all around us all the time, it interpenetrates our lives in every way, whether we like it or not. And where they are different from us is that shamans have made a virtue of this. They say, "okay, the supernatural realm is there, it does affect everything we do, we must deal with it directly, we must investigate it, we must negotiate with it." This is what's so different about us, in our society today, we've denied the existence of this realm, we want nothing to do with it, we diminish it, we deride it, we ignore, we say "we can't measure it, we can't weigh it, we can't count it so therefore it doesn't exist." The shamans of traditional societies have preserved and kept alive a tremendous mystery." ~Graham Han{censored}

Shamanism Aliens & Ayahuasca : Graham Han{censored} Pt.1
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
1,609
Here is the fine point: The Mughals were killing and torturing to compel conversions. And this stemmed out of the ideology that Islam had the One True God, therefore people who were Hindus were serving fake gods and going to hell. So anything was justified in order to compel people to convert. In this historical scenario, Guruji rose up and quite literally did, defend the Hindu religion. Does this mean the entire Sikh identity is developed to defend Hindu dharam? No, that would be simplistic. But it is still saying something powerful as a teaching to us. If Guruji thought that Hindu religion was fake in itself, why would He bother to defend people's right to practice a fake and deluded religion? Think about it. If you were a soldier called to defend something, would you be willing to fight and die for the right of people to practice a deluded and fake religion?
Harjas Ji,

When we attempt to refine our discussion, a refinement of vocabulary has to follow suite. By this I mean we have to differentiate the separate meanings of "fake", "deluded" from misleading and fictional.

ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਹੈ ਮਾਇਆ ॥
dhaevee dhaevaa mool hai maaeiaa ||
The source, the root, of the gods and goddesses is Maya.

ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਜਿੰਨਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
sinmrith saasath jinn oupaaeiaa ||
For them, the Simritees and the Shaastras were composed.

ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਪਸਰਿਆ ਸੰਸਾਰੇ ਆਇ ਜਾਇ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੨॥
kaam krodhh pasariaa sansaarae aae jaae dhukh paavaniaa ||2||
Sexual desire and anger are diffused throughout the universe. Coming and going, people suffer in pain. ||2||

ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਗਿਆਨ ਰਤਨੁ ਇਕੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
this vich giaan rathan eik paaeiaa ||
The jewel of spiritual wisdom was placed within the universe.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਇਆ ॥
gur parasaadhee mann vasaaeiaa ||
By Guru's Grace, it is enshrined within the mind.
~SGGS Ji p. 129
Allow me to address certain erroneous interpretations:
Harjas Ji,

We have to understand the poetic composition in its Gurmukhi form before deriving the meanings - otherwise the real purpose may be lost by delivering only the packing instead of the content.
 
Jan 6, 2007
285
11
UK
Harjas ji,

dhaevee dhaevaa do not translate as Gods and Goddesses.

One who has mastered spiritual powers becomes a Dhaevee(Devi) of Dhaevaa(Devta)

Guru Maharaj say "Is dehi ko t{censored}y dev" meaning that the Devi's and Devta's yearn for this body/a body. The reason is that in order to achieve salvation one has to route through this body that we have. Although Devi's and Devtas possess (God like) Spiritual Powers, they do not become Gods.

I hope this takes the blindfold off the translators.

ekmusafir_ajnabi
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
31
Guru Maharaj say "Is dehi ko t{censored}y dev" meaning that the Devi's and Devta's yearn for this body/a body. The reason is that in order to achieve salvation one has to route through this body that we have. Although Devi's and Devtas possess (God like) Spiritual Powers, they do not become Gods.

Devas are gods in the traditional sense of having powers beyond the physical and existing in dimensions which are beyond human. They yearn for the human body because it is through the human vehicle that enlightenment can be achieved according to God's own design. Even the devas take birth. Gurbani even says the demons take birth. And the other thing not mentioned is that human beings are at core not even physical beings, but atmas and have come from a spiritual dimension. The only linguistic awkwardness has to do with the English definitions of gods and goddesses which are largely Judeo-Christian, and thus Abrahamic. So English as a language does struggle to express concepts which are foreign to the traditional Judeo-Christian world-view. But deva is still meaning higher order of extra-dimensional being and compared to human experiential limitation, for lack of any better defintion, are gods, or demi-gods. And Gurbani acknowledges there are hierarchies among them with greater and lesser. Just as physics postulates there are higher and lower dimensions. Deva is basically talking about a higher order of intelligences, and therefore of a nature of spiritual entities. While foreign to the traditional Judeo-Christian English world-view, they are also well understood by traditional indigenous Shamans with thousands of years of history behind this understanding. In other words, while the English language is awkward grammatically to express these conceptualizations, the concepts are actually well-defined in cultures which now speak English, and we can work around that awkwardness. And since the word deva is actually Sanskrit and not English, it's not hard to get beyond the awkwardness of the translated definition "demi-god." All you are doing by saying "deva does not mean deva," is denying the truths of Gurbani, and not saying anything about English translation.

Deva -- Angel or celestial being belonging to a kingdom in nature evolving parallel to humanity, and ranging from sub-human elementals to super-human beings on a level with a planetary logos.

Deva, jiva and jara (inorganic matter) are, in their real, as opposed to their phenomenal and illusory, being, the one Brahman

Deva (Sans.) A god, a "resplendent" Deity, Deva-Deus, from the root div, "to shine." A Deva is a celestial being-whether good, bad or indifferent-which inhabits "the three worlds," or the three planes above us.


The One Supreme Parabraham is nirgun, meaning, we cannot perceive the fullness of with the limitation of human materiality. This does not mean demi-gods do not exist, or that alternate dimensions which are beyond the physical and are more refined, even higher vibratory state do not exist. This does not mean that anything which Western scientific reductionism has not validated is fictitious, or mythological, or has no reality. It does speak to what has been described as the "limits" of human perception, and of something beyond what human instrumentality can perceive.


Neither of your objections postulate anything more than creative interpretation. Where does the Gurmukhi say that devas are not devas? Where is the English translation of ਦੇਵ wrong? We are just back to the same debate, "yoga doesn't mean yoga, chakr doesn't mean chakr, and now deva doesn't mean deva." It's obvious from Gurbani that the gods are created out of the Parabrahm, that they are created in Maya, doubt and delusion and the three gunas. They do not become gods? You do realize everything that Gurbani is saying is from the Vedas and the Vedas say this same thing that the gods come from the Parabram. So why does deva mean god in one sense, and then not mean god in another? This is creative translation. I think you fail to realize that first, all creation is a manifestation of the Divine Parabrahm. Second, there are hierarchies of creation. And if you studied physics you would know that there is an implicate and explicate order of infinities and that deeper enfolded dimensionality has the characteristics of our 3 dimensions of space, and 4th dimension of time, but a higher dimensional entity (per theoretical physics!) would have capabilities beyond our own, would be able to walk through walls, become invisible at will, be able to foretell the future because time would not be a limit, etc.

So it comes down to the definition of what is a god.

Deva (देव in Devanagari script, pronounced as /'d̪ev.ə/) is the Sanskrit word for "god, deity". It can be variously interpreted as a spirit, demi-god, celestial being, angel, deity or any supernatural being of high excellence. In Hindu text and tradition, the devas opposed the corrupted demonic Rakshasa...

Nature devas are responsible for 'things' such as fire, air, rain and trees - most of them assumed a minor role in the later religion. Certain other deities rose into prominence. These higher devas control much more intricate tasks governing the functioning of the cosmos and the evolution of creation. Mahadevas, such as Lord Ganesha, have such tremenduous tasks under their diligence that they are sometimes called themselves gods under the Supreme One God. The Trimurti is composed of Brahmā, Vishnu and Shiva. (Note: Mahadeva generally refers to Shiva)

There are also many other lesser celestial beings in Hinduism such as Gandharvas or celestial musicians.

Vayu or the Lord of the wind is an example of an important deva. Also, Death is personified as the deva Yama.

Devas, in Hinduism, are celestial beings that control forces of nature such as fire, air, wind, etc. They are not to be confused with the One and the Supreme God or His personal form, Saguna Brahman which can be visualized as Vishnu or Shiva. God (see Ishvara) or Brahman (the Supreme Spirit) is the ultimate controller. A famous verse from the Katha Upanishad states: “From fear (here, power) of Him the wind blows; from fear of Him the sun rises; from fear of Him Agni and Indra and Death, the fifth, run." In actuality, Brahman is the only Ultimate Reality, and all devas are simply mundane manifestations of Him.

The Vaishnavites (who often translate deva as "demigod") cite various verses that speak of the devas' subordinate status. For example, the Rig Veda (1.22.20) states, oṃ tad viṣṇoḥ paramam padam sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ: "All the suras (i.e., the devas) look always toward the feet of Lord Vishnu." Similarly, in the Vishnu sahasranama the concluding verses state: "The Rishis (great sages), the ancestors, the devas, the great elements, in fact all things moving and unmoving constituting this universe, have originated from Narayana," (i.e., Vishnu). Thus the devas are stated to be subordinate to Vishnu, or God.

In the Bhagavad Gita Krishna himself states that worshipers of deities other than the Supreme Lord, Vishnu, are incorrect (Gita 9.23) as such worship leads only to temporal benefits, rather than to the Lord Himself (Gita 7.23). Krishna also says: "Whatever deity or form a devotee worships, I make his faith steady. However, their wishes are granted only by Me." (Gita: 7:21-22) Elsewhere in the Gita Lord Krishna states: "O Arjuna, even those devotees who worship other lesser deities (e.g., devas, for example) with faith, they also worship Me, but in an improper way because I am the Supreme Being. I alone am the enjoyer of all sacrificial services (Seva, Yajna) and Lord of the universe." (Gita: 9:23)

Swaminarayan, the founder of the Hindu Swaminarayan sect, a Vaishnavite sect, according to this site,[1], said in verse 115 of their scripture, Shikshapatri, "Shree Krishna Bhagwan and Shree Krishna Bhagwan's incarnations alone are worthy of meditation. Similarly, Shree Krishna Bhagwan's images are worthy. And men or devas, even if they are devotees of Shree Krishna Bhagwan or brahmavettaa (knowers of divinity), are still not worthy of meditation - and thus one should not meditate upon them."
Deva (Hinduism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You see, the classical Hindu definition of the devas is not even different from the definition given in Gurbani. All the devas are subordinate to the Parabrahm and reflect at His feet. The difference is whether Brahma or Vishnu is the Supreme that all the others derive from. And Gurbani has made it clear that the Parabrahm precedes even Brahma and Vishnu. So instead of following the Vaishnav tradition of elevating the das avtaara of Bishan as supreme manifestation, Gurbani says greater than these is the One Supreme uncreated Ik Oangkar. Since Hinduism itself as a religious philosophy also teaches the same thing, that the devas exist, are subordinate to the One Supreme, yet deva still means deva... how did modern Sikhism get this imaginative interpretation that a deva now doesn't mean deva? Explain!


ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਦੇਵ ਦਾਨਵ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਸਿਰਿ ਛਤ੍ਰ ॥
kee kott dhaev dhaanav eindhr sir shhathr ||
Many millions are the demi-gods, demons and Indras, under their regal canopies.

ਸਗਲ ਸਮਗ੍ਰੀ ਅਪਨੈ ਸੂਤਿ ਧਾਰੈ ॥
sagal samagree apanai sooth dhhaarai ||
He has strung the entire creation upon His thread.
~SGGS Ji p. 276



ਸੁਰ ਸਿਧ ਗਣ ਗੰਧਰਬ ਧਿਆਵਹਿ ਜਖ ਕਿੰਨਰ ਗੁਣ ਭਨੀ ॥
sur sidhh gan gandhharab dhhiaavehi jakh kinnar gun bhanee ||
The angels,the Siddhas,the beings of spiritual perfection,the heavenly heralds and celestial singers meditate on You. The Yakhsha demons,the guards of the divine treasures,and the Kinnars, the dancers of the god of wealth chant Your Glorious Praises.

ਕੋਟਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਅਨੇਕ ਦੇਵਾ ਜਪਤ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਜੈ ਜੈ ਕਾਰ ॥
kott eindhr anaek dhaevaa japath suaamee jai jai kaar ||
Millions of Indras and countless gods and super-human beings meditate on the Lord Master and celebrate His Praises.

ਅਨਾਥ ਨਾਥ ਦਇਆਲ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਉਧਾਰ ॥੨॥
anaathh naathh dhaeiaal naanak saadhhasangath mil oudhhaar ||2||
The Merciful Lord is the Master of the masterless, O Nanak; joining the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, one is saved. ||2||

ਕੋਟਿ ਦੇਵੀ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਸੇਵਹਿ ਲਖਿਮੀ ਅਨਿਕ ਭਾਤਿ ॥
kott dhaevee jaa ko saevehi lakhimee anik bhaath ||
Millions of gods and goddesses of wealth serve Him in so many ways.
~SGGS Ji p. 455


It's too simplistic to say it's an English translators problem, since these words clearly originate in Sanskrit. We are dealing with Sanskrit definitions.

Deva: "A shining one," a god-greater or lesser in the evolutionary hierarchy; a semi-divine or celestial being with great powers, and therefore a "god." Sometimes called a demi-god.


In Vishishtadvaita, Ishvara is the Supreme Cosmic Spirit who maintains complete control over the Universe and all the sentient beings, which together also form the pan-organistic body of Ishvara. The triad of Ishvara along with the universe and the sentient beings is Brahman, which signifies the completeness of existence. Ishvara is Parabrahman endowed with innumerable auspicious qualities (Kalyana Gunas). Ishvara is perfect, omniscient, omnipresent, incorporeal,[4] independent, Creator of the world, its active ruler and also the eventual destroyer. He is causeless, eternal and unchangeable — and is yet the material and the efficient cause of the world. He is both immanent (like whiteness in milk) and transcendent (like a watch-maker independent of a watch). He is the subject of worship. He is the basis of morality and giver of the fruits of one's Karma. He rules the world with His Māyā — His divine power.


According to the Dvaita school, Ishvara possesses all the qualities seen in Vishishtadvaita. However, Ishvara is only the efficient but not the material cause of the Universe and the sentient beings. Thus, Dvaitism does not separate Ishwara and Brahman, and does not believe that the highest form of Brahman is attributeless, or that Ishwara is incorporeal.[2] Instead, Ishvara is the highest form of truth and worship of God involves belief in God as an infinite and yet personal and loving being.

Thus, in addition to their belief in the abstract principle of Brahman, most Hindus worship God on a day-to-day basis in one of God's less abstract personal forms, such as Vishnu, Shiva, or Shakti. Some Hindus worship these personal forms of God for a practical reason: it is easier to cultivate devotion to a personal being than to an abstract principle. Therefore, the Hindu scriptures depict God not only as an abstract principle or concept, but also as a personal being.
Ishvara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you look closely at some of the different philosophical schools of Hindu thought, you see that the Supreme nirgun is beyond human comprehension and is more of an abstract principle because it isn't physical, the physicality can't comprehend it. It defies human logic. When people think or conceptualize, we do so in the symbolism of words, and in the feeling tones of emotion. It is true that every word you utter to express things beyond this dimension loses something of the reality of that dimension (and not even the nirguna, but just to conceptualize a deva is beyond human speech.) And this is because the translation of the brain in human concepts diminishes those elements which are beyond it and can't be expressed. We wind up with a human version, and not a symbolic facsimile. For example, if I say the word, "house" we have a common definition. But if we are talking of something beyond the comprehension of ordinary human experience, we diminish that beyondness by forcing the definition to fit a human concept.

This explains Plato's allegory of the cave, where we live in a world which is like a cave and perceive only shadows and lights, but the fullness of reality escapes us because of the limitation of the human senses, and the logic of human concepts. So when we are talking about a concept like devas, we are talking about the hyperdimensionality of the other worlds, but doing so in a way which seeks to categorize them scientifically, or mythologially. And I have the interpretation that this is incorrect.

An example would be Stephen Gaskin. He said when he had been a college student, he was a biology major. And when he looked at a tree, he looked at it analytically, categorizing it by shape and appearance. He looked at the leaves like you would dissect a frog and considered which flora, which fauna, which species. Then one day, he took peyote under the guidance of Indian elders. The world of the mind was never the same again. And as he describes it, "The next time I saw a tree, I bowed in reverence to the life force within it. For the first time I recognized the brotherhood of trees. I greeted the tree as another living being."

First of all, the Western world-view which is born out of the Abrahamic religious traditions does not see the atma pervading in all living beings. To the Abrahamic conception of the world, everything is soulless, with the exception of humankind. Everything is exploitable, and given for the use of mankind. And it is from this fundamental spiritual disconnection from the life-force present in ALL life, that Western scientific materialism and Western religious dogmas of Monotheism originate. And it is a sign of the Kaliyuga that such philosophies predominate. Because the tradition of the entire world and indigenous human races is radically different. The indigenous and original cultures world-wide have ALL believed that the whole world is a living being, and there are dimensions of intelligences. And this is largely because psychoactive plants and later yogic and meditative practices have induced the experience of other worlds in Native traditions which is refered to as "mysticism, pertaining to spiritual mysteries."

Gurbani is rich with mysticism and depth spirituality which is concordant with every indigenous religion on the planet. But these Western, modernistic Abrahamic definitions disconnect the reality of those fundamental truths and create another kind of Islamic world-view, which is neither accepting the literal definitions of the concepts and words expressed in Gurbani, nor the validity of the experience of other worlds.

The gods speak in a language of symbol. If you want a modern day example of this, study the life of Srinivasa Ramanujan the mathematician. He was self-taught mathematical genius and eccentric who died very young after being sponsored at Cambridge University. He left the world a legacy of old notebooks which had been unedited. In recent decades the mathematical world was after the last work of Dr. Albert Einstein. Einstein's last work was called the Grand Unification Theory. Mathematicians built from that work and developed advanced equations which contributed to Superstring Theory, then M-Theory. These advanced equations and theories could not have been worked out without the research into Srinivasa Ramanujan's modular function equations. It has been described by leading theoretical physicists that this was 21st century mathematics dropped into the 20th century.

How did Ramanujan get these advanced mathematics he scribbled in his journals without even the benefit of the education? He said the goddess whispered into his ear at night and spoke to him in a language of symbol. In the morning he would try to remember what she had said.


There are uncountable stories of angelic encounters, advanced spirit guides, bodhisatvas, gods which have aided people in times of need. Yet, are Sikhs going to ignore the reality of these presences which are spoken of in Gurbani, and deny them completely to force Sikh religion to fit into a modernistic context which is spiritually devoid of mysticism and nearly agnostic in it's disbelief of anything otherworldly, with the exception of the One God who is believed to be distinctly separate from His creation, and thus conformed to the Abrahamic world-view?

The evidence for higher beings exists. The references to higher beings in Gurbani exists. It conforms to the classical Hindu philosophies about higher spiritual beings which derive from and are subordinate to the Uncreated, nirgun Parabrahm. What is not in evidence is the materialistic, Western scientific, skeptical world-view or how Gurbani could squeeze it's Indic mysticism into those limitations.

How could we even talk about a nirgun God which defies comprehension? The manifestations in the sargun are so we can know God. This is why Guru is sargun. Without Guru, it would be impossible to grasp or come close to a God which in truest aspects comes closer to the Buddhist definitions of shunyata. Emptiness, shunyata, isn't even fully empty. If you do any Buddhist Abidharmic studies, you will see the Geshes describe the shunyata (emptiness) as pregnant with creative potential. It is like the pause before the spoken word or visible form. And moreover, Abidharma studies teach that shunyata is the union of absolute emptiness and light. What is powerful is, while Buddhism is an atheistic religion, it really is not so. It just has a definition of God which isn't personal, which is abstract. Abidharma studies concentrate on trying to define the nirguna. And even in Buddhism, there are hierarchies of manifestation, sargun buddhas of greater dimensionality than human.

Only the Wasichu (disconnected Western man) looks at the world blindly and says there are no intelligences pervading within and without. The indigenous man looks at the world and has intuitive awareness that everything is alive, even to the very cells of your own body. Your own body is a universe in which generations of cells have lived and died. But so disconnected is the driver of this body-vehicle, that he lives largely unaware of the beings within him who have struggled and died to keep him existing in this dimension. Moreover, even your ego-identity isn't solid as you may assume, but when we speak of personality we must of necessity speak of pluralities. To the Western man the world is dead, inanimate, exploitable. To the indigenous tribal people, the world has always been teeming with uncountable lifeforms. To the indigenous even a worm has a soul and the God permeates the soul of all beings. To the indigenous all the universes are filled with spiritual hierarchies, orders of beings, some good, some evil, some neutral, some advanced, some lower. And it has nothing to do with Western devaluations of mythology or hallucination.

But some people won't accept spiritual realities. Deep down, intuitively and subconsciously people know but they don't want to know. We look in the mirror at the flesh but we are not what we see. We are spirit beings who come from another dimension of reality. This earth is only a temporary home. To confront this is to confront our mortality and the divestiture of ego-identity. It is to glimpse realms of terror and madness and the archetypal unconscious as well as rapturous and holy. It is to nearly lose your mind in the conventional sense, and Maya resists this. The ego, which religions all over the world teach must be overcome, is also a tool for interacting in the real world. To lose your ego is to confront madness. True depth psychology and mystical spirituality is a journey into the heart of the madness of the human soul. And it is easier to deal with mundane concepts, mundane realities and the temporary security of an earth which is firm. But the truth is, all that you see here now is passing away. You cannot hold on to your body. You cannot hold on to your identity, your culture, your race, your bank account. And you must necessarily take this journey into the other realms, when your time is up, whether you are ready or not. Spirituality is not a social climbing for respect in the material world. Spirituality is a preparation for when you have no physical body and must travel to imaginal realms of psychic force and even duress. It is to confront what is deepest, what is disturbed, what is even demonic in your own mind.

I will give you a hint... nothing of the spiritual dimensions can be perceived physically with the senses. You cannot "look" and see. You cannot "listen" and hear. You cannot "touch" and feel. It's a different kind of perception. And if you don't have it? Well I guess you don't have it. And you can stand on the mountainous vistas with the Western scientists and pull out your telescopes and textbooks and try to find and explain God. And I wish you the best of luck, because thats a set up for failure.

Any religion which takes that approach doesn't have a clue. And this is a problem in modern religion, even Gurdwaras. Most people socialize in them and never get beyond the senses. Religion is a custom. Respect is there. Love is there. But the perceived reality isn't. Modern people are frightened and dissociated from spiritual reality, just as they are frightened of their own dreams That's why modern religious people are great believers in medicine and science and business. They are a great material success. But spiritually, mystically? Most people are totally out of touch and disconnected. Even to the point where they read their own holy books like a school book and try to correct the "primitivism" they find, try to excise out all the mystical other-worldly teachings and references (which they can't imagine could be real), and ultimately make their religion as powerless and devoid of reality, as the scientist makes a tree into a lifeless object of study. Dead people trying to logically comprehend what is perceivable to them only as a dead world is no basis for a religion at all. If you only understood that this isn't even the Real world. This is the shadow reality.

But I don't know how to explain to you if you can't accept that the word deva means deva, and insist on coming up with something new and Western to describe it. The supernatural simply means that which is beyond nature and thus not fully understood. To the modern mentality it means the impossible and the fictitious.


~Bhul chak maaf
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
May 25, 2005
2,935
2,950
56
United Kingdom
Quote:
One who is living a life in intoxication of Maya cannot be expected to think beyond the Horizon. We cannot think and understand beyond the parameters set by our Karmas.


Quote:
I do not need not converse with you further on this issue.


Nothing further to say to you. By the Wisdom of My Gurus.

So long as you remember this equally appplies to YOU as well as ME!:u)::ice:
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
1,609
http://goodwaygoodlife.org/good/thiru.htm

The term “mantram” denotos “an idea that sustains and safeguards a person who is immersed, as it were, in seeking Truth through its instrumentality.”

It is ideas that elevate men to great heights. Naturally, one who feels a compulsive urge to enter into a higher spiritual level, should safeguard oneself with ideas that bring about an upward orientation in one’s being.

Mantram is the spark that lights the torch of knowledge. The late Dr. V. V. Ramanana Sastri defines mantram as “an idea that is formed out of (spiritual) churning.” And he adds: “Mantrams, therefore, are images that emerge in the mind as a result of ceaseless concentration.” Such mantrams means of attaining true knowledge.

Tirumantram by Tirumular is one of the most important of the Tamil works on mamtrams handed down to us from out saints and seers.

Scholars hold conflicting views on the date of composition of Tirumantrarn, and, whether or not it is a translation from Sanskrit. It is the privilege of scholars to disagree. We shall not here enter into academic controversies. However, it is well that we seek to have some idea of the social environment of the age in which Tirumular lived and produced his magnum opus.

Tirumular’s origin, the circumstances that led to his leaving Kailas and to his settling down in the land of the Tamils the social forces that inspired him to produce the immortal Tirumantram, all these are lost in the mists of antiquity. We do not even know the real name of this great sage. Tirumular is the name be acquired 1ater when he became a shepherd. No historical background is possible. We have, therefore, to turn to another great treatise, Periya Puranam, for what it has to say on the story of his life.

The sage, says Periya Puramam, came to Tamil Nad from Kailas to meet his friend Agastya. After offering worship at several famous shrines, he reached Sattanur, a village on the banks of the Kaveri, where he witnessed the tragic spectacle of a herd of cows weeping over the corpse of a shepherd. Evidently, the shepherd had met with sudden death, and the cows, feeling that some great tragedy had befallen their master, stood hovering about the body, unwilling to move away. They smelled it, and tears rolled down their long white cheeks like silvery rivulets.

This moving sight struck a responsive chord in the sage, and he decided to end the agony of the cows. As one who had mastered the eight siddhis, he knew the technique of moving from one body to another. He cast aside his body in a safe place, and penetrated into the shepherd’s body. The shepherd immediately came to life and got up. The cows danced with joy on seeing their master alive again.

The sage who now lived in the body of the shepherd (his name was Mulan) followed the cows back to the village in the enening. But he stood in the street without entering Mulan’s house. Mulan’s wife who was awaiting her husband’s return came out, and was puzzled to find him standing in the street . She called him in, and moved up to take his hand. But he stepped aside, and asked her not to touch him. He denied he had relationship whatsoever with her. Then he entered into a neighbouring mutt, and was soon immersed in deep contemplation.

Mulan’s wife would not be consoled easily. How could the poor woman know that her husband was no more and that another saintly soul was now dwelling in his body? She com*plained to her relatives against her husband’s behaviour and cried that he had lost his senses. Some of the elders of the village who saw him at the mutt were wise enough to perceive that the shepherd was in a state of samadhi. They, therefore, asked her not to disturb him, but to leave him alone.

When the sage emerged from contemplation the next morning, he straightaway went to the spot where he had left his former body. But it was not to be found there! He then realised that he was destined to spend the rest of his life as Mulan the shepherd, that it was Gods will that he should fulfil His purpose as a shepherd.

Known thenceforth as Tirumular (derived after the shepherd’s name Mulan), he left Sattanur and reached Tiruvavaduthurai, where he sat under a Bodhi tree and passed into a state of deep contemplation. Once a year lie woke up, and each time he composed a stanza containing the cream of his spiritual experiences during the year. It took 3000 years for him to compose the 3000 stanzas comprising Tirurnantram.

This account of his life in Peria puranam gives perhaps a clue to the state of society which obtained at the time of Tirumular. Why did Tirumular choose to come down all the way to the land of the Tamils? How did it come to pass that this great exponent of the vedas and the Agamas was given the form of a shepherd in a lower rung of the social ladder to expound the great Saiva Siddhanta school of philosophy? And why was Saiva Siddhanta in particular chosen in preference to other systems of thought? It is well that we seek hove some answer to these questions, if only for obtaining a correct appreciation of some of the stanzas in T1rumantram, such as, for instance, those expressing his strong condemnation of the pretensions of impostors masquerading as saints and Seers.

Presumably, early Indian thought, which gave birth to some of the greatest metaphysical systems the world has ever seen, received a setback, and an era of sterility and stagnation had commenced. True learning and character were eclipsed by principles and practices justifying social malpractices. The true import of the Vedas and the Agamas was allowed to be lost in the jungle of rituals and dogmas. Tamil Nad, the cradle of Saiva Siddhanta, had become the breeding ground of false prophets who used religion and philosophy for securing personal advantages. Such, obviously, was the state of Tamil society which Tirumular felt compelled to reconstruct on lines set forth in the Vedas and the Agamas and as he understood them in the light of his spiritual experiences.

Tirumular wanted humanity to share the divine bliss which he himself had enjoyed. This sharing of his happiness, this freedom of the soul from ignorance and bondage, cannot however he secured unless, first, some of the fundamental tenets of Saiva Siddhanta were instilled into the minds of the people.

Tirumular taught that the liberation of the pasu(soul) was not dependent on the caste, high or low, of the person in whom it dwells; that the soul can attain freedom only if one followed the right path without allowing oneself to be diverted toward blind alleys; that Saiva Siddhanta, which is the cream of the Vedas and the Agamas, opens the window that reveals true knowledge.

This account, therefore, of Tirumular’s teaching Tirumantram as a shepherd, should serve to emphasise his advice that, inasmuch as the soul and not the body that must needs be freed from bondage, any person, be he of high or low birth, can seek to attain Sivananda (divine bliss). That he should have come from Kailas to Tamil Nad in the extreme South may be taken as reflecting his anxiety that the correct principles of Saiva Siddhanta should again be taught and reinforced in the land of its birth, where social conditions had so altered as to obliterate the prime principles of the Vedas and the Agamas. If the Vedas may be described as the tree of knowledge, the Agamas are its branches and leaves and fruits. While the Vedas content themselves with stating that the soul is the Brahman, the Agamas instruct and guide in leading the soul toward its union with the Absolute Being.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
1,609
http://www.dlshq.org/download/lordsiva.pdf

LORD SIVA AND HIS WORSHIP
By
SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA

CONTENTS
PUBLISHERS’ NOTE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . iv
Chapter I
SIVA MANTRAS AND STOTRAS
Siva Mantras . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
Siva-Panchakshara-Stotram . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
Siva-Shadakshara-Stotram. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
Linga-Ashtakam . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
Ardhanari-Natesvara-Stotram . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7
Siva-Kavacham . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
Sarvalinga Stava . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13
Attributes Of Siva. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17
The Sublime Vision. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19
Song of Lord Nataraja. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22
Glory of Lord Siva . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22
Chapter II
SIVA TATTVA
Sadasiva . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26
Ardhanarisvara . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27
World-Teacher . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27
Pasupata Yoga . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28
Chapter III
THE SAIVA SIDDHANTA PHILOSOPHY
Siva And Tattvas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28
Pati-Pasu-Pasa . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29
Sadhana. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30
Ashtamurti . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31
Suddha Saiva . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32
Chapter IV
PHILOSOPHY OF SYMBOLS
Philosophy Of Symbols. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33
Snake On The Body Of Siva . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34
Significance of Bhasma, Nandi, Etc. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34
Philosophy of Abhisheka . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35
Fruit of Abhisheka and Rudra Japa in Siva’s Temple . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37
Chapter V
PHILOSOPHY OF SIVA TANDAVA
Lord Nataraja—The Great Dancer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41
Dance of Siva . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42
Chapter VI
SAKTI YOGA PHILOSOPHY
Siva and Sakti. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 48
Siva and Parvati. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49
The Divine Mother . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51
Sakti Energises the Trimurtis . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52
Mother Ganga. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52
Tripura Rahasya . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 54
Kamakshi and the Dumb Poet. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56
Hymn for Forgiveness to Mother . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57
Chapter VII
VIRASAIVISM AND KASHMIR SAIVISM
Virasaivism. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58
Kashmir Saivism . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58
Chapter VIII
LORD SIVA AND HIS LILAS
Tripurari . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60
Siva Jyoti . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60
Nilakantha . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60
Ravana And Siva . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60
Hari and Siva . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61
Brahma’s Boon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61
Birth of Subrahmanya. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61
Lord Siva and Daksha. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61
Dakshinamurti . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 62
Tripura Samhara . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 62
Lord Siva Curses and Pardons Nakirar . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63
Know Your Guru . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 64
Lord Siva Drinks Poison . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 65
Lord Siva Rides on the Bull. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 66
Lord Siva Wears the Ganga on His Head . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 66
Lord Siva’s Lila of Begging. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 67
Lord Siva Wears Trident, Deer, Etc. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 67
Lord Siva Has Uma on His Left. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68
Lord Siva Wears Elephant’s Skin. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68
Lord Siva the Fuel Seller . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68
The Twentyfive Lilas of Lord Siva . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70
Chapter IX
SIVA YOGA SADHANA
Secret of Panchakshara . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70
Meditation on Lord Siva . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71
Worship of Siva. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 72
Siva Manasa Puja . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74
Panchakshara Mantra Writing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74
Siva Jnanam . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74
Worship of Siva Linga . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76
Siva Linga is Chinmaya. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 77
Way to Attain Lord Siva . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 78
Greatness of the Prasad . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79
Benefit of Pilgrimage . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 80
Benefits of Parikrama. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 81
Real Flower and Arati. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 82
Chapter X
THE SAIVA UPANISHADS
Rudra of the Upanishads . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 83
Rudraksha Jabala Upanishad . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 84
Bhasma Jabala Upanishad . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 87
Tripura-Tapini-Upanishad . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 91
Rudra Upanishad . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 95
Chapter XI
THE SAIVA ACHARYAS
Appar or Tirunavukkarasar . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 98
Tirujnana Sambandhar . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 101
Sundaramurthy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 104
Manickavasagar . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 106
Tirumular . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 108
Basavanna. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 109
Chapter XII
SIVA BHAKTAS
Saints and Sages. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110
Markandeya . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 111
The Story of Rishabha Yogi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 111
Pushpadanta . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 113
Kannappa Nayanar . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 114
Sirutonda Nayanar. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 116
Lord Siva’s Mother . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 117
The Sixty-Three Nayanar Saints. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 118
Chapter XIII
FESTIVALS
Lighting Festival at Arunachala . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 121
Vijaya Dasami. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 123
Dassera . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 124
Vasanta Navaratri . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 125
Gauri Puja . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 126
Chapter XIV
SIVA YOGA MALA
Books on Saivism . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 127
Chidambara Rahasya . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 128
Siva and Vishnu are One. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 129
Sivaratri Mahima . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 131
The Twelve Jyotirlingas. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 133
Siva Nama Kirtan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 134
SIVA STOTRAS
Sivarchanam. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 137
Devyarchanam . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 142
Sivanirajanam . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 146
Sivadhyanavali . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150
Sivapushpanjali . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 152
Sivamahminah Stotram . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 153
Sivastuti . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 165
Vedasara-Sivastava . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 166

 
📌 For all latest updates, follow the Official Sikh Philosophy Network Whatsapp Channel:
Top