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How Do You Know God Exists? Does SGGS Prove God Exists?

findingmyway

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Re: How do you know God Exists? does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji prove god exists?

What i'm trying to say is that the statement "Ik Onkar" is one of the first things we learn as a child. If there is one line of prayer that is associated with Sikh scripture more than any, it is "Ik Onkar", the question I was asking was: Does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji provide any reasoning behind this statement? Does it use rationality (i'll explain what I mean by rationality in a moment) to construct the notion of one God.

If there was a "God Proof" paragraph in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that you could point out it would interest me very much.

All 1429 pages of the SGGS!!!!

We are often taught that the Gurus are manifestations of God, a phyiscial manifestation would imply that God is perhaps for of a being rather than a force, also sikhs give god a name, and in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji we are told to love God.

The Guru means teacher so the Guru's were teachers of a new way of life. We are all manifestations of God, as is everything that exists. God is omnipresent. Loving God = loving yourself, loving all life forms = wanting to do the right thing.

I don't know much about Sikh history so before I start reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji I think I would much rather read about the history of the 10 gurus. Are there any books you can reccomend?

History can be distorted and manipulated to suit different agendas. First study SGGS to equip you with the knowledge to interpret history. You can never know or understand Sikhi without attempting to read SGGS. Always go to the source for knowledge. The rest is hearsay and personal interpretations. Even when I write academic transcripts, we are taught never to quote a secondary source but read the original paper that was quoted.

The only other thing I have to add is relating to evidence in the real world. Have you seen the BBC show Secrets of Our Living Plant? It shows how diverse species are interlinked for survival and how ecosystems develop. Its quite incredible! Science can explain the how but not the why. Science can show the mechanisms but not the wonder and awe at how everything has come together!! As someone who works in science research, I need no further proof :blinkingkaur:
 

arshdeep88

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Re: How do you know God Exists? does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji prove god exists?

.

As a sidenote I dislike it when people say that we should not speculate or attempt to understand the nature of God, I would atleast like to ascertain that he exists before i start to "love" him or show him any affection.

If you really want to
see nature around you
see beautiful creation around ,creatures made n stars heavenly bodies around,start looking things around
and start giving thoughts and questioning yourself too
if you are more scientific persons and only believe in proofs, study science too
study how laws of various things work?
why all things adhere to laws with no exception?
what makes these things to work under the rule of the laws?
one of the famous scientists Sir Isaac Newton who discovered laws of gravity too believed in creator of all beautiful planets and heavenly bodies and the nature
Einstien said energy can neither be created nor be destroyed
so from where does the source of all this energy around came from?

its allright if you dnt want to love him too ,its not hard and fast
and nor the creator is selfish to ask you to love him
atleast love people around
you can see people atleast and think they do exists?cant you?
then love them ,make things better for people around
 

Harkiran Kaur

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Re: How do you know God Exists? does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji prove god exists?

Akasha ji,

Guru fateh.

If that were the case, then Jesus would not be the only Son of God.

But it wasn't Jesus that was the one who was being referred to as 'it'.

A male and /or female can have a son. For that matter a genderless God could have son (assuming that God is allmighty)

And as for Jesus = God, there are plenty of quotes in the Bible where he himself said he was the 'son of man' which he actually was quoted as saying more than he was the son of God. That points more to prophethood more than as the only 'begotten' son... which btw begotten means through the act of sex, which I have to assume the creator is beyond.

I think something may have been lost in the translation and time....
 
Feb 23, 2012
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Re: How do you know God Exists? does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji prove god exists?

Tejwant Ji, could the above quote by Vouthon be referring to the usage of 'it' to denote that God is neither male nor female? In other languages, it's easy to refer to a genderless persona that is still a conscious entity... however it's very weird to refer to any conscious entity in English as 'it' In the same way that all translations of Gurbani into english refer to Waheguru as 'he' when in the original there exist plenty of reference to the creator being neither male or female but possessing qualities of both (as Father AND Mother for e.g.) So in Vouthon's quote could it be that the original was trying to say that God is without gender - rather than trying to say that God is inanimate/without awareness??

Just to add. Neither God as what Jesus called the “Father,” “Son,” or “Holy Spirit” has gender. You are absolutely correct :peacesignkaur:

Scholars have noted that Dionysius presents through his usage of "it" a conception of God that is genderless.

It is a pity that we do not have in English more personal but gender neutral terms.

Nonetheless Dionysius also denies that God is a "Being". He is conscious but not a Being like me or your good self:

"...Dionysius denies that God is a being...He transcends being, all conceptions of being as presence, as well as the categories of gender..."

- Kevin Hart



'Father' and 'Son' are not literally suggesting male gender. That would be preposterous.


These terms are simply used so that one does not get the impression that God is not a personal creator.


We should likewise, according to Dionysius, not fall into the trap of thinking that because God is conscious this means that he is conscious in the same way as a creature, or human person. His consciousness is so exalted that to our minds' alone it would seem like unconscious impersonality if we even tried to comprehend it.


There is actually biblical precedent for the fact that God is genderless and so is properly "it" (even though this word cannot be used in English because it is cold, impersonal and lifeless):


"...Since you saw no form on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure, the likes of male or female..."

- Deuteronomy 4:14-17


As Moses explains above in Deuteronomy, God has no form and so should not be depicted as male or female because he is genderless in essence.


The Early Christian Fathers were equally concerned with defending the truth that God is genderless, even when metaphoric masculine imagery of "Father" and "Son" was used:


"...When we speak of God, we use a masculine word, but let no thoughtless person accuse us of saying that God, is a man. It is not gender that is expressed but rather his name, its customary meaning and the way in which we habitually use words. The deity is not male, even though his name is of the masculine gender. In contrast, [pagans] attribute gender to the gods, by calling them either “god” of “goddess.” We cannot believe that God has a body, because if he did, he would have to be either male or female..."


- Arnobius, (died c. 330), Early Christian apologist (Against the Nations, 3.8, ACD vol 1, p38)


Of course, God has been depicted as male more often than female. For some reason people have feared the potency of feminine metaphors more than masculine ones. It is difficult to depict the CREATOR through images that are gender neutral, hence why the ancient Israelites were forbidden by Moses to create any depictions of God.


See also Lactantius on the fact that God does not reproduce sexually because he doesn't have a body, like the Ancient Romans believed regarding their gods and whom Lactantius is debating with:


Lactantius (ca. 240 – ca. 320), Early Catholic Church Father
Chap. viii.—that god is without a body, nor does he need difference of sex for procreation.

It is proved, therefore, by these witnesses, so numerous and of such authority, that the universeis governed by the power and providence of one God, whose energy and majesty Plato in the Timæus asserts to be so great, that no one can either conceive it in his mind, or give utterance to it in words, on account of His surpassing and incalculable power. And then can any one doubt whether any thing can be difficult or impossible for God, who by His providence designed, by His energy established, and by His judgment completed those works so great and wonderful, and even now sustains them by His spirit, and governs them by His power, being incomprehensible and unspeakable, and fully known to no other than Himself? Wherefore, as I often reflect on the subject of such great majesty, they who worship the gods sometimes appear so blind, so incapable of reflection, so senseless, so little removed from the mute animals, as to believe that those who are born from the natural intercourse of the sexes could have had anything of majesty and divine influence; since the Erythræan Sibyl says: “It is impossible for a God to be fashioned from the loins of a man and the womb of a woman.” And if this is true, as it really is, it is evident that Hercules, Apollo, Bacchus, Mercury, and Jupiter, with the rest, were but men, since they were born from the two sexes. But what is so far removed from the nature of God as that operation which He Himself assigned to mortals for the propagation of their race, and which cannot be affected without corporeal substance?
Therefore, if the gods are immortal and eternal, what need is there of the other sex, when they themselves do not require succession, since they are always about to exist? For assuredly in the case of mankind and the other animals, there is no other reason for difference of sex and procreation and bringing forth, except that all classes of living creatures, inasmuch as they are doomed to death by the condition of their mortality, may be preserved by mutual succession. But God, who is immortal, has no need of difference of sex, nor of succession.
 

Ambarsaria

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Re: How do you know God Exists? does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji prove god exists?

Folks it does not hurt or may even be appropriate to keep focus on what is in front of our noses. However we must recognize that the message and guidance from Guru ji in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is quite a bit beyond that.

Read the following at your leisure and let us review what difference does it make in the long term activities in the universe what any one of us thinks. The only difference that our myopic infatuation of the micro aspects of the universe, albeit looking for proofs to believe, believing without proofs or not believing in God or creator. Let us remember though that what ever God or creator or lack thereof is, the wisdom or the truths behind all creation, it will always be mystery in part small or large vis-à-vis our lives and how we live.

Guru ji’s teaching in this regards is “consonance”. Consonance with all life and non-life that abounds around us. Cherish life, cherish nature and be synergistic part of all that is around.

Hence,


  • If we develop wisdom to avoid catastrophes as flagged in the article, that is also consonance.
    • Intercept and blow the peace of rock before it hits us
    • Lasers, missiles, bombs conventional or otherwise
  • If we don’t that is also consonance.
    • Many things come to be because we are not capable at that moment to respond or we ignore consonance in the first place
    • The consequences of this are consonance as and when things happen based on environ of the moment
Note: Closing your eyes, blindly praying, throwing water at it, etc., is not Sikhi. Check your bearing and get real.

Sikhism teaches us to keep all of this in a perspective while learning about all forever more and live improvingly with each passing day.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://news.yahoo.com/large-asteroid-heading-earth-pray-says-nasa-005545942.html
Large asteroid heading to Earth? Pray, says NASA

By Irene Klotz | Reuters – 3 hrs ago
2013-03-20T005545Z_1_CBRE92J02L000_.jpg

Reuters/Reuters - The passage of asteroid 2012 DA14 through the Earth-moon system, is depicted in this handout image from NASA. REUTERS/NASA/JPL-Caltech/Handout

By Irene Klotz

CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida (Reuters) - NASA chief Charles Bolden has advice on how to handle a large asteroid headed toward New York City: Pray.

That's about all the United States - or anyone for that matter - could do at this point about unknown asteroids and meteors that may be on a collision course with Earth, Bolden told lawmakers at a U.S. House of Representatives Science Committee hearing on Tuesday.

An asteroid estimated to be have been about 55 feet in diameter exploded on February 15 over Chelyabinsk, Russia, generating shock waves that shattered windows and damaged buildings. More than 1,500 people were injured.

Later that day, a larger, unrelated asteroid discovered last year passed about 17,200 miles from Earth, closer than the network of television and weather satellites that ring the planet.

The events "serve as evidence that we live in an active solar system with potentially hazardous objects passing through our neighborhood with surprising frequency," said Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, a Texas Democrat.

"We were fortunate that the events of last month were simply an interesting coincidence rather than a catastrophe," said Committee Chairman Lamar Smith, a Texas Republican, who called the hearing to learn what is being done and how much money is needed to better protect the planet.

NASA has found and is tracking about 95 percent of the largest objects flying near Earth, those that are .62 miles or larger in diameter.

"An asteroid of that size, a kilometer or bigger, could plausibly end civilization," White House science advisor John Holdren told legislators at the same hearing.

But only about 10 percent of an estimated 10,000 potential "city-killer" asteroids, those with a diameter of about 165 feet have been found, Holdren added.

On average, objects of that size are estimated to hit Earth about once every 1,000 years.

"From the information we have, we don't know of an asteroid that will threaten the population of the United States," Bolden said. "But if it's coming in three weeks, pray."

In addition to stepping up its monitoring efforts and building international partnerships, NASA is looking at developing technologies to divert an object that may be on a collision course with Earth.

"The odds of a near-Earth object strike causing massive casualties and destruction of infrastructure are very small, but the potential consequences of such an event are so large it makes sense to takes the risk seriously," Holdren said.

About 66 million years ago, an object 6 miles in diameter is believed to have smashed into what is now the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico, leading to the demise of the dinosaurs, as well as most plant and animal life on Earth.

The asteroid that exploded over Russia last month was the largest object to hit Earth's atmosphere since the 1908 Tunguska event when an asteroid or comet exploded over Siberia, leveling 80 million trees over more than 830 square miles (2,150 sq km).

(Editing by Kevin Gray and Paul Simao)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What you think?

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: I added emphasis in the article to flag certain aspects related to our thread.
 
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Ishna

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Re: How do you know God Exists? does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji prove god exists?

NASA is looking at developing technologies to divert an object that may be on a collision course with Earth.

I think the same argument for "don't use IVF because it intereferes with Hukam" applies here. If we can't use technology to create life we shouldn't use it to divert an asteroid.

If I was using that argument...
 

Luckysingh

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Re: How do you know God Exists? does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji prove god exists?

I think the same argument for "don't use IVF because it intereferes with Hukam" applies here. If we can't use technology to create life we shouldn't use it to divert an asteroid.

If I was using that argument...

I know, we shouldn't use glasses to read either !
or beta blockers to control our blood pressure !lol
Just joking and taking it to the extreme !


I know what you mean and I can't really argue about IVF because i'm sure that a desperate couple who have been trying for years and years won't just accept hukam and not use science and IVF. I'm sure they would see the IVF as part of hukam itself and an opportunity.
I feel selfish on speaking on their behalf because I really don't know the experience of the agony and torture that they encounter mentally.
So my heart goes out to anyone that has or is going through this suffering.
 

Tejwant Singh

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Re: How do you know God Exists? does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji prove god exists?

I think the same argument for "don't use IVF because it intereferes with Hukam" applies here. If we can't use technology to create life we shouldn't use it to divert an asteroid.

If I was using that argument...

But, isn't technology part of the Hukam?
 
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Tejwant Singh

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Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

"From the information we have, we don't know of an asteroid that will threaten the population of the United States," Bolden said. "But if it's coming in three weeks, pray."

This is a saying normally used as a metaphor. Nothing literal about it. Now we have enough technology to foresee these things years ahead and have the chance, and the challenge to create something to combat it before it smashes on us. " Let's pray" for the latter.:)

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 
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