Hard Talk How Many Sikhs Have Married Out Of Caste/race?

[Lionchild]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

...rather than say a Punjabi-Sikh marry another Punjabi who is a Sikh in name and goes out boozing and partying, and could not give a damm about Sikhi...

I hope your not calling jatts that randip... if not, then yuor correct.

I woudl liek to know though, how does a "convert" or new sikh marry someone in the sikh community, if they are new and don't have connections that the punjabi-sikh community has?

Always wanted to know...

 

[Randip Singh]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

I hope your not calling jatts that randip... if not, then yuor correct.

I woudl liek to know though, how does a "convert" or new sikh marry someone in the sikh community, if they are new and don't have connections that the punjabi-sikh community has?

Always wanted to know...

brother...if there is one thing I know it is Jatts are not solely responsible for the booze culture amongst Sikhs. I have been to Jatt, Khatri, Tarkhan, Mazbhai, Bhatra and many other weddings and the one thing they have have in common is an almost superhuman verging on the occult capacity to drink alcohol and the cause mayhem.

I think the best way for a convert to go about it is through the marriage bureau's.

 

[Lionchild]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

brother...if there is one thing I know it is Jatts are not solely responsible for the booze culture amongst Sikhs. I have been to Jatt, Khatri, Tarkhan, Mazbhai, Bhatra and many other weddings and the one thing they have have in common is an almost superhuman verging on the occult capacity to drink alcohol and the cause mayhem.

I think the best way for a convert to go about it is through the marriage bureau's.

K Alot of ppl are always pointing fingers at them alot, it seems. There're not that bad...

BTW, i just realized that my typing sux tonight.

XD

XD

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Gurfateh

Das is a convert and was offered matirmonial proposal from Punajbi Sikhs also.

And there are europian(das use this term for whites) and africans(say for Blacks) also seem to have marriege with say Asian Sikhs.eg Chris Mony Singh or Jarnail Singh first non Asian to sing Kirtan in Darbar Sahib and is from Austraiya.so we have a ferench convert also.

do not have to worry.In Canada best people to help out for meat eating Sikhs are from sikhmarg.com.

 

[Ravinder Singh]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Sat Shri Akal, Well i am married for eight years now and happily wed to a Delhi di jatti who is a God gift to me. She has filled the void that was there lurking until in my Bachelorhood.I am in Hongkong, born and bred in India though , and I confess having relation with a beautiful young and positive Chinese girl who wanted to marry but I let her go only because I eventually have to face God . She was good , positive and ten years younger but through mind , i always wanted a desi lady for me because i think in punjabi ! and wanted a soul mate who would think and converse in my tongue. Not denying though that the chinese girl was cute and devoted but i am married and would not want to put my wife in stake . Life is tough but i have been a happy man and above all i fear God.About my wife I would say to my friends that i have a child already . She is pious , cute and sort saynobad , thinknobad, lady and though i might not adore her chubbiness but I do love her face , mind and thousands of her qualities. She is perfect and I dare not make God angry . I firmly believe that Rab ne jodi jodi joh milayee , for me , ultimate, because, i am not a tricky man , positive bloke and the almighty gave me a similar lady who is , inaway, Rabb da roop! I have sacrificed my sexual instincts for her . I now have a son six years and they love me . Life's full and i shall be content till my dying day! SSA , Ravinder Singh

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Gurfateh

If what das has understood from Gurmat we can go for polygamy at least in some acute cases.We do not have to be rigid here.But that need to be idscused in other thread.

 

[Lionchild]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Gurfateh
do not have to worry.In Canada best people to help out for meat eating Sikhs are from sikhmarg.com.

please in the futre - do not mention anything on the subject of meat, and so called "meat-eating sikh". We are all sikhs no matter what our diet, race, background, language we are from.

-reminder.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Gurfateh

sorry for mistake ,but same people(from sikhmarg.com) have helped das also often as das is also meat eating Sikh,and is not liked by a few Sikhs for this 'sin'.

We are united but diverse when it comes to interpetation of Gurban i yet we respect each others views.We keep on getting newer things while we understand Gurbani.Forgive das again if any mistake was done.

 

[Randip Singh]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Gurfateh

sorry for mistake ,but same people(from sikhmarg.com) have helped das also often as das is also meat eating Sikh,and is not liked by a few Sikhs for this 'sin'.

We are united but diverse when it comes to interpetation of Gurban i yet we respect each others views.We keep on getting newer things while we understand Gurbani.Forgive das again if any mistake was done.

Although the topic of meat eating should not be raised here, I do agree with you friend that those that are violently and even fanatically opposed to meat eating by Sikhs tend to be so caught up in the meat debate that they seem spiritually devoid of grasping what the main issues are within Sikhism. A goos example of this is the awful "Sikh" site of www.info-sikh.com. The title for it is an oxy{censored}, because it has opinion and no information. The creators of this site should hang their heads in shame.

Our Guru's were 100% correct when they said:

Fools Wrangle Over Flesh

....and brother that is how you should treat these people as...FOOLS!!

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Gurfateh

Bhai Rajinder Singh the owner of that site is buddy of das but yes he is incorrect when he says that Baptised Sikh is forbiddan to eat meat rather from some groups that things comes in.

Das used this instance only to raise another issue,Just like Brahmins in caste based socity do with non Brahimins(read pseido Brahmins),In the same way there could be some Sikhs may be due to jatt cultrue do not intermarry with Sikh or even eat from his/her hand ,who is not amrit Dhari from thier ideological group.It is extention of castism.

 

[kirpal175]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

4 me the best is 2 know your future, at the time your kids grow up to 21 the proberms will be there 4 the parents u thinks i am joking , then u must try it out, i will not do it, and my kids will the same because i have seen many of this in my life.

 

[Jazz]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

WGJKK WGJKF ....

Moving off at an slight angle, please read below and offer comments ....


Both my Mother and Father believe that all caste differentiation was abolished via Guru Ji, they believe that we are all equal in status, that we are all sikhs.

Fathers view is that Guru Gobind ji made all castes equal, but did not abolish them. My Mothers view is that all castes are equal, and are abolished at time of baptism (amrit).

Furthermore, I would like to ask : Guru Gobind Singh Ji renamed the panj pyare SINGH, why do we have a 'family' name at the end, does this not follow caste identification?

Can I have your comments please

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Gurfateh

Yes there is not need for family name as other Sikhs of that time also had Singh only as surname.or say places from where they belonged like Singhpuria,Ahluwaliya,Dallewaliaya or say Ramgarhia.

 

[Jazz]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

WGJKK WGJKF

It would get a little confusing would it not, eg having 20 Mr Jaswinder Singh Sang Dhesianwale???? S'pose there are pro and con points in that argument also.

Can you also comment on the other views held, for eg was caste abolished by Guru ji, or was the differientation by caste abolished, is it all automatic or is it on baptism?

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Gurfateh

As per Suraj Praksah Granth and Prachen Panth Prakash,it is writtan by authers that Four Varnas are unnited into one.

Same could be found in Vars of Bhai Gurdas 1st.

Das thinks that at time Varnas were behold as caste while in Truth it is more to do with profession.Caste is rejected in Three Granth al togather.

Khalsa is beheld as own form of Guru and with mark of Triy Mudra of Kach Kes and Kirpan and nothng to do with caste as Guru term them my own family ie Khalsa Mero Swajan Parwara.

 

[Mutia]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Pardon my not replying 'Yes' or 'No' in an objective manner. Reason, I am thoroughly confused! Being a Sikh & trying to be Truthful to Shabad Guru Who Ordains :-

Nanak Uttam Neech Na Koi...
(cast, creed, race etc are foul words),

I never cared to find out/acknowledge my own or that of any of my near & dear one's (incl that of my wife's before marriage) as.., rac..,cre.. etc. I do not think I bungled the Issue. Off course, can't vote on the issue & beg pardon.
-Mutia 17 May 06

 

[Jazz]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

WGJKK WGJKF

Im unsure if that is the correct translation ...

Does it not refer to look to frown upon caste diffrientiation, rather than "cast, creed, race etc are foul words"

May I have your source for translation?

 

[Nim_23]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Basically I voted NO because I am not even married. I used to think that I can never marry a person of a lower caste because of the Sikhs who believed is this as an embarrassment; Sikhs - which of course includes some family members, relatives and friends who make mockery out of a person who marrys a low caste and I have seem parents who even tend to disown or get upset with their children for such matters.

Then, as I began to do a personal study on Sikh History/Religion...I realised that we Sikh are not supposed to be affected about the caste system. Guru Nanak wanted a caste ridden society. Therefore, I learnt the correct information of Sikhism and changed my mind set about the caste system.

So, if I were to marry a man of a lower caste, I am perfectly fine with it. A person of a lower caste is a human being too...n what more...we all men of god!


WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

 

[max314]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Mm...what's interesting about how this "no caste" thing has been interpreted is that a lot of people believed Guru Nanak said that there was no use for caste.

This isn't entirely true.

Guru Nanak - whilst saying that all were equal - didn't overlook the sociological importance that a caste system held. Different groups of people had different skills; farming, carpentry, crafts, etc...

Whilst all are equal in the eyes of God, the practical requirements of life 600 years ago dictated the need for caste in order to keep villages and societies intact with the systems of the time.

Remember, both Miri (the practical) and Piri (the spiritual) are considered to be of equal importance in Sikkhi.

Of course, the use of caste can be questioned in the contemporary Western world, and that's just fine. But even then, social hang-overs still exist.

It's not that it makes a person 'evil' for not marrying out of their caste. It's just a choice that is purely on a socio-psychological and personal level. It has little to do with God or nobility.

P.S. - I have noticed certain behavioural differences between castes. It's quite interesting to observe, actually... But, ultimately, good and bad people exist in all walks of life regardless of caste, creed, race or religion. People should be judged on their individual character and not the (mis)fortune of their birth.

 

[Jazz]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

WGJKK WGJKF

Well said my Brother.