Hard Talk How Many Sikhs Have Married Out Of Caste/race?

[Archived_Member_19]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

Principles>Beliefs>Faith>religious affiliation

this must be the sequence

its funny though

 

[Lee]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

If a person love his/her religion then he/she should marry a person to whom he/she share's common beleif.There are many religions which are contradictory to each other.
For example is it possible for a strick vegetarian hindu girl who beleive's that cow is sacred to marry
a muslim who boy who eat's beef and beleive that idol as evil.So even in love you have to
see the religious background of your partner or either you end up leaving your religion or divorce.

While I see this point, it is not always goping to be that way. As I have saidn I'm married to an athiest, and my two children look like going down the same route.

Sad as it is for me not to be able to impart some Sikhi to my kids, it IS their choice, and it is my job to answer all question put to me about God and religoin in as honest and open manner as possible.

Shouldn't religion, God, and your own relationship with diety be a personal thing? Do you think God punishes us for not converting our family?

My wife doesn't understand nor share my faith, but leaves me to practie it , and there are not problems ariseing because of it. Sometimes being differant from your spouse means you have all sorts of interesting things to talk about.

 

[kds1980]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

While I see this point, it is not always goping to be that way. As I have saidn I'm married to an athiest, and my two children look like going down the same route.

Sad as it is for me not to be able to impart some Sikhi to my kids, it IS their choice, and it is my job to answer all question put to me about God and religoin in as honest and open manner as possible.

Shouldn't religion, God, and your own relationship with diety be a personal thing? Do you think God punishes us for not converting our family?

My wife doesn't understand nor share my faith, but leaves me to practie it , and there are not problems ariseing because of it. Sometimes being differant from your spouse means you have all sorts of interesting things to talk about.

Lee ji

Your case is different.you embraced sikhism after marriage and your wife is atheist and you don't have to practice atheism.But religion like sikhism,islam,hinduism etc you have to practice them and they all come with restrictions and taboo's.It depend's on eaach indivisual how much importance he/she give's to these taboo's because many taboo's
are contradictory.Let me give you another example if tommorow your wife embracae islam and give's you ultimatum either you convert to islam or divorce her because in islam a muslim women is not allowed to have a non muslim husband,then what will you do?
Either you succumb to her pressure or you end up divorcing her.so net reult either you loose your religion or divorce.

Oh please don't mind above is just an example i am sure your wife is not going to do this.

 

[punjabikiren]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

If a person love his/her religion then he/she should marry a person to whom he/she share's common beleif.There are many religions which are contradictory to each other.
For example is it possible for a strick vegetarian hindu girl who beleive's that cow is sacred to marry
a muslim who boy who eat's beef and beleive that idol as evil.So even in love you have to
see the religious background of your partner or either you end up leaving your religion or divorce.

i understand what you are saying but either you havent ever been in love or you either see love in a different way then i. because in love you sacrifice...loves all about sacrifices

 

[kds1980]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

i understand what you are saying but either you havent ever been in love or you either see love in a different way then i. because in love you sacrifice...loves all about sacrifices

I agree with you love is about sacrifice.But that love is different we love our mother ,father,our family.We are ready to sacrifice many things for them.But the love between man and woman is majority of time's is just attraction.no wonder these days we see many divorces.

Kiren ji in your first post you said that you know 5-6 girls who married muslims please tell us.Whether they are still sikhs or they just embraced islam.How many of them are or will raise there children as sikhs.why is it that majority of times it is women who end up losing their religion in interreligious marriages if love is sacrifice

Also what about the love of parents.In punjabi sikh society when a child decide's to marry
out of religion then there parents just loose all the respect in their society especially if the child is girl.If a person really love his/her parents then he/she will never bring shame to parents.

 

[Archived_Member1]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

i understand what you are saying but either you havent ever been in love or you either see love in a different way then i. because in love you sacrifice...loves all about sacrifices

yes, love is about sacrifice... but sometimes those sacrifices aren't what we want. sometimes the fact that we loves someone means we should let them go, because we cannot be happy together. if my spouse converted to islam or christianity and tried to push me to convert (not that it will ever happen, mind you), i'd have to leave. it would be a sacrifice i'd make to keep myself whole, and to keep us from destroying each other.

does this make sense?

 

[Sikh80]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Yes ! it does a lot !You do not seem to be as your cap tells.

 

[Archived_Member1]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Yes ! it does a lot !You do not seem to be as your cap tells.

i'm sorry, who is wearing a cap??? please speak plainly. i'll ask you again to please stop with the insults and stick to the topic.

 

[punjabikiren]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

I agree with you love is about sacrifice.But that love is different we love our mother ,father,our family.We are ready to sacrifice many things for them.But the love between man and woman is majority of time's is just attraction.no wonder these days we see many divorces.

Kiren ji in your first post you said that you know 5-6 girls who married muslims please tell us.Whether they are still sikhs or they just embraced islam.How many of them are or will raise there children as sikhs.why is it that majority of times it is women who end up losing their religion in interreligious marriages if love is sacrifice

Also what about the love of parents.In punjabi sikh society when a child decide's to marry
out of religion then there parents just loose all the respect in their society especially if the child is girl.If a person really love his/her parents then he/she will never bring shame to parents.

i now understand your point and yes some of the girls converted 1 male coverted into a sikh and 1 couple didnt covert at all he stayed muslim and she stayed sikh. there are raising their children into sikhism but children in england dont grasp their religion as well has they should. personally i dont understand why our women always covert for others i dont quiet understand that myself. i also completley agree with what you have said about the shame brought on the society and personally i would never do that myself. i completley understand what you are saying but i dont know if this is allowed but can two religions be married like a sikh and muslim without anyone coverting?

 

[punjabikiren]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

yes, love is about sacrifice... but sometimes those sacrifices aren't what we want. sometimes the fact that we loves someone means we should let them go, because we cannot be happy together. if my spouse converted to islam or christianity and tried to push me to convert (not that it will ever happen, mind you), i'd have to leave. it would be a sacrifice i'd make to keep myself whole, and to keep us from destroying each other.

does this make sense?

yes this does make sense to me but has i just replied back to another person is it allowed that you and another religion to be married without anyone converting?? im not quiet sure. yes sometimes we have to sacrifice by letting someone go, at the moment i am single and alwaya have been i am only 17 years of age and am living in england here religion isent seen as much of a problem until it gets to the stage of marriage i know of girls who are with muslims and 2 and 3 ready to convert by leaving their family and religious behind and not having an izit (respect). personally i would never do that myself and wouldnt even put myself in a position where you know your doing wrong that your parents will never agree and that you will simply distroy each other. thank you for what you have wrote i really understand and has given me much thought.

 

[kds1980]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

but i dont know if this is allowed but can two religions be married like a sikh and muslim without anyone coverting?

This could happen if both are non practising.because according to islam a muslim can
only marry muslim,jewish and christian girl while a muslim woman is not at all allowed to marry a non muslim man.on the hand in sikhism it is also preferable to have a sikh partner

 

[Archived_Member1]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

yes this does make sense to me but has i just replied back to another person is it allowed that you and another religion to be married without anyone converting?? im not quiet sure. yes sometimes we have to sacrifice by letting someone go, at the moment i am single and alwaya have been i am only 17 years of age and am living in england here religion isent seen as much of a problem until it gets to the stage of marriage i know of girls who are with muslims and 2 and 3 ready to convert by leaving their family and religious behind and not having an izit (respect). personally i would never do that myself and wouldnt even put myself in a position where you know your doing wrong that your parents will never agree and that you will simply distroy each other. thank you for what you have wrote i really understand and has given me much thought.

Guru Sahib says that husband and wife should be "one light in two bodies". for me, this means that my husband and i must share our spiritual life. and happily, we do. it's great to have someone to wake up with you at amrit vela, to help me to understand gurbani, to go to the gurdwara together, do seva together, and to discuss religious, spiritual, and political issues that a non-sikh might not understand.

there are so many little things, like if you're amritdhari, you can't share food from the same plate as a non-amritdhari... my husband and i love to share food, i can't even imagine if we weren't allowed to!

i guess it just depends on how important a role your faith plays in your life. for my husband and i, it's central to our relationship.

but like you said, religion isn't as important for young sikhs as for the older generations, so my personal feelings aren't going to make sense to everyone.

 

[kds1980]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Guru Sahib says that husband and wife should be "one light in two bodies". for me, this means that my husband and i must share our spiritual life. and happily, we do. it's great to have someone to wake up with you at amrit vela, to help me to understand gurbani, to go to the gurdwara together, do seva together, and to discuss religious, spiritual, and political issues that a non-sikh might not understand.

there are so many little things, like if you're amritdhari, you can't share food from the same plate as a non-amritdhari... my husband and i love to share food, i can't even imagine if we weren't allowed to!

i guess it just depends on how important a role your faith plays in your life. for my husband and i, it's central to our relationship.

but like you said, religion isn't as important for young sikhs as for the older generations, so my personal feelings aren't going to make sense to everyone.

Jasleen you are just an amazing sikh woman.

 

[punjabikiren]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Guru Sahib says that husband and wife should be "one light in two bodies". for me, this means that my husband and i must share our spiritual life. and happily, we do. it's great to have someone to wake up with you at amrit vela, to help me to understand gurbani, to go to the gurdwara together, do seva together, and to discuss religious, spiritual, and political issues that a non-sikh might not understand.

there are so many little things, like if you're amritdhari, you can't share food from the same plate as a non-amritdhari... my husband and i love to share food, i can't even imagine if we weren't allowed to!

i guess it just depends on how important a role your faith plays in your life. for my husband and i, it's central to our relationship.

but like you said, religion isn't as important for young sikhs as for the older generations, so my personal feelings aren't going to make sense to everyone.

thank you jasleen ji for your view and you do make sense and trust me your personal feelings do make sense to me they do anyways.

 

[Lee]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

there are so many little things, like if you're amritdhari, you can't share food from the same plate as a non-amritdhari... my husband and i love to share food, i can't even imagine if we weren't allowed to!

Jasleen Ji,

What you say makes a lot of sense and I'll admit that I do get a little sad that my wife does not practice any sort of faith. However the same jot in two bodies is what Guru Ji teaches us as the ideal for a marriage and I still feel that way with my wife.

She doesn't share nor really understand why I need to be a spirtual man, but she does make it easy for me to be so.

I do need to ask though, I have never heard of this Amritdhari Sikhs not being allowed to eat from the same plate as a non Amritdhari, where does this come from? Guru Granth Sahib, or rehat maryarda?

 

[Archived_Member1]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Jasleen Ji,

What you say makes a lot of sense and I'll admit that I do get a little sad that my wife does not practice any sort of faith. However the same jot in two bodies is what Guru Ji teaches us as the ideal for a marriage and I still feel that way with my wife.

She doesn't share nor really understand why I need to be a spirtual man, but she does make it easy for me to be so.

I do need to ask though, I have never heard of this Amritdhari Sikhs not being allowed to eat from the same plate as a non Amritdhari, where does this come from? Guru Granth Sahib, or rehat maryarda?

it's maryada. generally speaking, rules for living are maryada, and spiritual guidance is SGGS.

i think that some of the reasoning behind it was 1) to get amritdharis to spend more time in each other's company rather than with non sikhs, sort of a bonding/brotherhood thing. 2) so you don't share food with someone who smokes or drinks.

but honestly, i'm not sure of the exact reasoning.

You were Blocked

Chapter XII
Voluntary Service
Article XXI


(b) All human beings, high or low, and of any caste or colour may sit and eat in the Guru's kitchen-cum-eating house. No discrimination on grounds of the country of origin, colour, caste or religion must be made while making people sit in rows for eating. However, only baptized Sikhs can eat off one plate.

 

[Lee]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

(b) All human beings, high or low, and of any caste or colour may sit and eat in the Guru's kitchen-cum-eating house. No discrimination on grounds of the country of origin, colour, caste or religion must be made while making people sit in rows for eating. However, only baptized Sikhs can eat off one plate.

Ahhh many thanks Jasleen Ji!

 

[carolineislands]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

"only baptized Sikhs can eat off one plate..." sounds pretty contradictory to how I understand Guru Nanak's message to be.

As far as marriage, I come from a middle class, conservative, white southern family (americans will know that that means) and am married to a Black Caribbean man who grew up in the poorest nation in the western hemisphere, came to the states on a boat, spent months in Guantanamo and worked and educated himself to the point that he is now more affluent and educated than I am. We come from TOTALLY different backgrounds, race, social class... etc.

He is Christian and I am converting to Sikhism. We are one soul in two bodies. When I first started researching Sikhi, he was disturbed by it but we talk and pray together and he is understanding that the whole point behind what I believe is that the True God transcends religion and we are now back on the same page. My belief in this principal is what led me to Sikhi in the first place and it is what makes me love it so. The belief that God is beyond all our human definitions allows me to go to church with him and worship in his way and then go to another church and worship in their way and be enriched by both of them just the same as I am enriched by speaking English to one person, French to another and Creole with my husband. I say the same things, only in a different language.

We are one soul in two bodies - one black and one white - sometimes we speak his language and sometimes we speak mine but the meaning of the words are always the same...

I love you.

The same with our worship of the one True God.

 

[carolineislands]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

When I am a baptized Sikh I will still share my plate with anybody. In Haiti, you always share your food. You never eat all that is on your plate. You eat about half and then you give your food to one of the many people around you who don't have any. How could I ever change that? If there is no Muslim and there is no Hindu, how can there be baptized and unbaptized?

I don't understand that.

 

[Sherab]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

"only baptized Sikhs can eat off one plate..." sounds pretty contradictory to how I understand Guru Nanak's message to be.

Not really. Amritdhari is one who gives his body, mind, and soul to God. Therefire, if you have given that body to God, through baptism, you should share food off one plate with those who have done the same. They are clsoer to you, then your husband.

When you take amrit, you are told your new father is Guru Gobind Singh, and your new mother is Mata Gujri ji (please fix if incorrect) and your new town is Anandpur Sahib (benti - please fix if wrong).

And those two lights, in one body - is akin to you and God, at Lavaan, is a poetic description of man and woman in marriage, but MORE IMPORTANTLY you and God.

Any questions, i will do my best to answer.. forgive me if i offend, but i cannot ask for forgiveness if lavaan, rehit maryada, or anything else offend.. thats between you and Gobind Singh Maharaj.

Surinderjit Singh