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Christianity Is The Bible Misunderstood By Christians?

LennyG

SPNer
Apr 19, 2008
11
0
Liverpool, England
Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

Hi pk70,




Jews traditionally understand this passage as referring to the Creator him/herself, and not to any specific messenger. However there are always many interpretations about exactly what means the Creator might use to fulfill a plan or intention.

Lenny- I have found some of the Gospels interesting reading from a Jewish perspective, Matthew in particular. The Sermon on the Mount is a favorite section of mine. I am in the middle of a book called "God: A biography", which traces the development of the personality of God throughout the Hebrew Bible as a literary character/representation. It's quite fascinating, though I don't yet know if there will be any dovetails with the New Testament. The author is a former Jesuit priest, so I assume so.

I remember reading somewhere about the Council of Nicea, it was decided there about what books were allowed in to form what is known as the New Testament. Quite a number of books never made it - Dead Sea Scrolls - Greg Bradden numbers it at 84 books which were censored from the New Testament. So questions about the missing books will rage on !!!
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
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Jul 14, 2007
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Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

Sir.40

  1. [18] To labour, and to becontent with that a man hath, is a sweet life: but he that findeth a treasure is above them both.
ਸਹਜਿ ਸੰਤੋਖਿ ਸੀਗਾਰੀਆ ਮਿਠਾ ਬੋਲਣੀ ॥
सहजि संतोखि सीगारीआ मिठा बोलणी ॥
Sahj sanṯokẖ sīgārī­ā miṯẖā bolṇī.
We are adorned with intuitive ease, contentment and sweet words.
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
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Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

Ethical life is a stepping stone to Spirituality. Without a proper foundation, a building cannot be erected. As such, the observance of continence is the first postulate to achieve success on the Spiritual Path.

Christ said: "Blessed are the pure in, heart for they shall see God."

One cannot realize God unless one's heart is clean. God does not dwell only in mountains, forests, or skies.

He is our controlling Power. He is within all of us. All great souls and Saints have declared that the Lord dwells in every human heart.

Why then we cannot see Him?
The reason is that our hearts are polluted. We cannot reach our goal without purity of heart for which we will have to make efforts.
Have you ever thought of purifying your heart where the Lord is dwelling?

Until the mind is stilled, we cannot realize Him. Those with pure hearts say: "Open your inner eye and have a glimpse of Him. "

How to purify and control the mind?

This is our subject today. Great Souls Who have traversed on the Spiritual Path have recorded Their experiences about purifying Their hearts and controlling Their minds. Let us see how Guru Amar Das did it. It is a historical fact that He remained in search of God until He was about 70 years old. Every year He used to go barefooted on a pilgrimage to Haridwar. What a great devotion! Why did He go to this trouble? He did not go there on a pleasure trip. He was in search of something, by attaining which all else is attained. Ultimately He came to the feet of Guru Angad. After having experienced the Reality, He dealt with the subject exhaustively for the guidance of the worldly people.

Guru Amar Das says that the Power of God permeating everywhere--Ram Naam--is known as the Word. That is extremely hard to find in this world. A contact with It makes the mind docile. It is only through the grace of the Guru that we can taste the Nectar of Naam or Its Eternal Bliss. He may then grant us the inner contact with the All-Pervading Naam. This is the panacea for all ills of the mind.
 

pk70

Writer
SPNer
Feb 25, 2008
1,582
627
USA
Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

(quote namjap ji)
Guru Amar Das says that the Power of God permeating everywhere--Ram Naam--is known as the Word. That is extremely hard to find in this world. A contact with It makes the mind docile. It is only through the grace of the Guru that we can taste the Nectar of Naam or Its Eternal Bliss. He may then grant us the inner contact with the All-Pervading Naam. This is the panacea for all ills of the mind.

If pot is full with filthy water how pure water can go there? If some tells how to do it, unless that is done, what can be expected? We hear, we like it but we dont do it. We know why we dont, but unfortunately we are indecisive unlike true seekers.
 
Jan 6, 2007
285
11
UK
Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

More commonalities:

Psalm 98

א מִזְמוֹר, שִׁירוּ לַיהוָה שִׁיר חָדָשׁ-- כִּי-נִפְלָאוֹת עָשָׂה;
הוֹשִׁיעָה-לּוֹ יְמִינוֹ, וּזְרוֹעַ קָדְשׁוֹ. 1 A Psalm. O sing unto the LORD a new song; for He hath done marvelous things; {N}
His right hand, and His holy arm, hath wrought salvation for Him.
ב הוֹדִיעַ יְהוָה, יְשׁוּעָתוֹ; לְעֵינֵי הַגּוֹיִם, גִּלָּה צִדְקָתוֹ. 2 The LORD hath made known His salvation; His righteousness hath He revealed in the sight of the nations.
ג זָכַר חַסְדּוֹ, וֶאֱמוּנָתוֹ-- לְבֵית יִשְׂרָאֵל:
רָאוּ כָל-אַפְסֵי-אָרֶץ-- אֵת, יְשׁוּעַת אֱלֹהֵינוּ. 3 He hath remembered His mercy and His faithfulness toward the house of Israel; {N}
all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.
ד הָרִיעוּ לַיהוָה, כָּל-הָאָרֶץ; פִּצְחוּ וְרַנְּנוּ וְזַמֵּרוּ. 4 Shout unto the LORD, all the earth; break forth and sing for joy, yea, sing praises.
ה זַמְּרוּ לַיהוָה בְּכִנּוֹר; בְּכִנּוֹר, וְקוֹל זִמְרָה. 5 Sing praises unto the LORD with the harp; with the harp and the voice of melody.
ו בַּחֲצֹצְרוֹת, וְקוֹל שׁוֹפָר-- הָרִיעוּ, לִפְנֵי הַמֶּלֶךְ יְהוָה. 6 With trumpets and sound of the horn shout ye before the King, the LORD.
ז יִרְעַם הַיָּם, וּמְלֹאוֹ; תֵּבֵל, וְיֹשְׁבֵי בָהּ. 7 Let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein;
ח נְהָרוֹת יִמְחֲאוּ-כָף; יַחַד, הָרִים יְרַנֵּנוּ. 8 Let the floods clap their hands; let the mountains sing for joy together;
ט לִפְנֵי יְהוָה-- כִּי בָא, לִשְׁפֹּט הָאָרֶץ:
יִשְׁפֹּט-תֵּבֵל בְּצֶדֶק; וְעַמִּים, בְּמֵישָׁרִים. 9 Before the LORD, for He is come to judge the earth; {N}
He will judge the world with righteousness, and the peoples with equity. {P}

This above does not qualify as a spiritual text. It appears more like an expectation of a Mortal. Bible is more like a story book. There are very verses in the Bible that can be said to be spiritual. I would be more inclined to say that Jesus has been misunderstood by Christians. Our Sikhs have not fully understood the message over a span of 200 years of Gurus presence on earth even though the philosophy of Indian was far more advanced, how can the Christians understand Christ when he only preached for three years to people whose lifestyle was Nomadic.

Where was Christ for so many years from birth to age thirty?
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
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Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

I remember reading somewhere about the Council of Nicea, it was decided there about what books were allowed in to form what is known as the New Testament. Quite a number of books never made it - Dead Sea Scrolls - Greg Bradden numbers it at 84 books which were censored from the New Testament. So questions about the missing books will rage on !!!

Who isn’t a God-seeker ?
One who is contended and realizes that there is nothing to seek as everything resides within.

What does the architect find when he looks within ?
The architect looks within, sees a finished version of his masterpiece, and is humbled by the knowledge that he has touched some higher force.

The poet tries to translate inner ecstasy into words but is exasperated because he has experienced something words cannot express. The dancer moves with flowing lines to express a balance, a feeling which connects with something much deeper. The minister faithfully preaches the church’s doctrine but wonders, questions and inwardly explores the age-old riddle; there has to be something more than this. In time, these disguised queries initiate a longing for truth and a realization sets in that there is a force greater than them. They may even suspect that it permeates all things and is both powerful and intelligent.

Questions and doubts remain for years. Some seekers will question and doubt what they sense inwardly. SGGS is the source of information that will clear such doubts which remain as obstacles throughout generations. Our connection with SGGS at the present time will clear the path for generations ahead to take the next step; open the door within.
 

Canuck Singh

SPNer
Jun 13, 2008
79
1
Can UK
Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

Another thread that I wish to read, but alas where shall I find the time?

SPN your forum is unlike any other, kudos for the wisdom and wise debate
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
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Jul 14, 2007
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Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

If pot is full with filthy water how pure water can go there? If some tells how to do it, unless that is done, what can be expected? We hear, we like it but we dont do it. We know why we dont, but unfortunately we are indecisive unlike true seekers.

ਮਲੁ ਹਉਮੈ ਧੋਤੀ ਕਿਵੈ ਨ ਉਤਰੈ ਜੇ ਸਉ ਤੀਰਥ ਨਾਇ ॥
मलु हउमै धोती किवै न उतरै जे सउ तीरथ नाइ ॥

Mal ha­umai ḏẖoṯī kivai na uṯrai jė sa­o ṯirath nā­ė.
This filth of egotism cannot be washed away, even by taking cleansing baths at hundreds of sacred shrines.
Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


ਉਨ ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕੀ ਮੈਲੁ ਉਤਰੈ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇ ॥
उन जनम जनम की मैलु उतरै निरमल नामु द्रिड़ाइ ॥

Un janam janam kī mail uṯrai nirmal nām driṛ­ā­ė.
The filth of many incarnations is washed away, and the Immaculate Naam is implanted within.
Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
 
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spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

I remember reading somewhere about the Council of Nicea, it was decided there about what books were allowed in to form what is known as the New Testament. Quite a number of books never made it - Dead Sea Scrolls - Greg Bradden numbers it at 84 books which were censored from the New Testament. So questions about the missing books will rage on !!!

Why did they censor them? Did it have something to do with a new born religion deciding what it's identity was - what it was and what it was not -- and then casting aside books that contradicted the new definitions of identity?
:confused:
 
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lionprinceuk

(previously Lion_Prince_Jatinder)
SPNer
Jun 29, 2004
162
39
west london
I think the bible has been translated into translations that have been translated and so on ....
which means you don't get the original words to understand it, you get something distorted.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
I think the bible has been translated into translations that have been translated and so on ....
which means you don't get the original words to understand it, you get something distorted.

Lion_Prince_Jatinder ji

You are absolutely right about this. Just as an experiment a curious member can google Roman Catholic bibles and find more than 2 dozen. All different translations of original texts which were in Aramaic or Greek.

The Old Testament was written in several languages and translated into Hebrew.

The Christian testaments Old and New were translated from original languages -Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, etc. - into Latin. From Latin into English, French, and German to name a few local tongues. Later these versions of the Bible were translated many times over. And usually the translations reflect the political strife of the times, or political and social philosophies. So the translations are slanted and reflect the agendas of political interests.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
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Merry Chistmas Everybody !!!
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
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Jul 14, 2007
4,576
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Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

NamJap Ji;
Many Christians proclaim the example of Jesus and the morality of the 'Sermon on the Mount', as examples of the superiority of Christianity to other religions.

But coming from a Jewish background I have experienced the reality of Christianity. And that means about 2,000 years of persecution. From the time of the first Christian Emperor Constantine, innocent Jewish people were persecuted for their religion, later they were locked up in separate parts of the city called 'ghettos', for centuries on 'Good Friday' Christians would leave church and then attack innoncent peaceful Jewish adults and children. Christian hatred led to the Holocaust. All my paternal grandfather's relatives were murdered, for no other reason than their religion.

So to me Christianity seems to be a religion of hatred, like Islam. Whereas the Sikh religion teaches its followers to hate nobody and only to take arms to defend the weak. To me this is superior.

May I direct you to this thread, you may begin to love it.

http://www.sikhism.us/interfaith-dialogues/17453-jews-sikhs-how-similar-can-we.html
 

shearwater

SPNer
Apr 3, 2008
67
18
Yes, the Bible is misunderstood by many "Christians." Jesus was clear that those who profess to be followers of Jesus would walk as he walked. Therefore the word "Christian" should more correctly be termed disciple, or, better yet, apprentice. Since there are over 34,000 religious sects that profess to be Christian, we need to be careful. Many of these sects separated from their beginning sect on issues of misunderstanding. For example, the Roman Catholic Church at one time exacted indulgences from its adherents to reduce their time in a purgatory . . . a place where all baptized Roman Catholics would be prepared for heaven. Martin Luther read the Bible carefully and didn't see that salvation could be purchased by these indulgences. So he formed the Lutheran Church. The Roman Catholics in Luther's time placed equal or higher value on the papal statements as the Bible, and he explored that issue as well. So, no question, Christians misunderstand on these things. Recent Bible translations such as the New International Version have cleared up some of the fog of language that have caused some misunderstanding. The Roman Cathoklic Church through Vatican II has also helped Roman Catholics be more in sync with ortyhodox Christianity than was the case before. I remember as a child when Roman Catholics were strongly discouraged from reading the Bible since they said it could only be read and understood correctly by the priests.
 

shearwater

SPNer
Apr 3, 2008
67
18
Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

There is a dark side of Christianity when Popes were evil and Roman Catholics ruled with an iron hand. Jesus said that many will come in his name professing to be his followers. The real issue is do those supposed followers do what Jesus taught? The Crusades are an aberration from authentic Christianity embodied in 1 John which says,

7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.


I don't see any hatred in those verses. I do see hatred in the holocaust which was an outgrowth of Adolf Hitler's notion of a superior race as per Charles Darwin's survival of the fittest themes and natural selection. Jesus taught that if anyone harbors hatred for another person, he is guilty of murder.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
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A long period of peace, joy and happiness on this plane may be termed success. The eternal experience of these qualities is the everlasting life spoken of by Jesus. The real things of life, such as peace, harmony, integrity, and happiness are intangible. They come from the deep self of the human being. That is the true place where......

.....moth and rust do not consume, and where thieves do not break through and steal.
MATT: 6:20



Page 511, Line 3
ਇਸੁ ਧਨ ਕਉ ਤਸਕਰੁ ਜੋਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਈ ਨਾ ਓਚਕਾ ਲੈ ਜਾਇ ॥
इसु धन कउ तसकरु जोहि न सकई ना ओचका लै जाइ ॥
Is ḏẖan ka▫o ṯaskar johi na sak▫ī nā ocẖkā lai jā▫e.
Thieves cannot steal this wealth, nor can robbers take it away.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
 

shearwater

SPNer
Apr 3, 2008
67
18
Carl Menninger, a famous US psychiatrist of some years back, wrote a book, "Whatever Happened to the Word Sin." In it he identified evil and said that psychiatric practice was trying to eliminate that word from our lexicon of ideas. In any case, we must admit that there are two forces in the world and one of them is evil. The evil force Christians believe is the devil, a spirit being who fell from his original state of bliss in heaven with one third of angelic beings following him. and he and his followers exist to destroy any good in the world that would help people realize their highest and best purpose, i.e. "love God with all their hearts and enjoy him forever." People who identify with the devil and his works may be identified by their works. While we do not hate those people, we can see a real connection as them being children of the devil because of who they allow to influence them to do bad things. I know that Sikhs do not believe in evil spirits, devils or angels, so this may be an idea that would be alien to their philosophy. At the philosophical level, it cannot be denied that evil and good stand in opposition to each other and there are influences behind human behaviors that emanate from sources other than the human himself, i.e. an evil spirit we call the devil.
 
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