Christianity Is The Bible Misunderstood By Christians?

[Sikh Warrior]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

Aad Ji,

Actually I already changed the title once and am open to suggestions regarding the title. And I hope there will be more participants posting in this thread. There is no definite direction to where this discussion will lead to and it will be interesting to read many views and opinions.

I think bcoz as seen most of the christian do not respect other relegion.

 

[carolineislands]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

Correct! However in religious practice no one follows that - They have been speaking the name of God for 3 hours straight 9-12 am at the Catholic Church around the corner from my office. Every day. OOps! Not for 3 hours straight, off and on for 3 hours straight would be more accurate.

Well, the language of the spirit is not exactly the name of God. It is that spiritual communication one has with God when they reach a very profound level of connection in the spirit. I don't think it has much to do with the name of God but is more about things of the spirit that can't be defined.

 

[Sikh Warrior]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

Well, the language of the spirit is not exactly the name of God. It is that spiritual communication one has with God when they reach a very profound level of connection in the spirit. I don't think it has much to do with the name of God but is more about things of the spirit that can't be defined.

ok so wht you think if a religion teaches not to respect other religion?

 

[Sikh Warrior]

Is tattoo allowed for sikhs

I am thinking to have a tatoo on my shoulder so is tht right.?

 

[carolineislands]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

ok so wht you think if a religion teaches not to respect other religion?

I don't like that. All the Abrahamic religions' core belief is that there is only one true path to God and that is Christianity, Judaism, Islam respectively. It is intrinsic to their belief system that anyone who does not follow that particular path is doomed to eternity in hell. They are required by the tennants of thier faith and laws of compassion to preach their particular gospel to people they consider "lost." Islam in particular is very intolerant of other faiths to this day, to the point that many Muslim scholars teach that it is only a sin to kill "innocents" and the definition to them of an innocent is a Muslim, therefore it is not a sin to kill non-Muslims.

Unofortunately, intolerance is part and parcel of the Abrahamic faiths as they are generally practiced. That's why I agree with the title of this thread that the Bible IS misunderstood by Christians. Jesus had a whole different kind of message, but it's gone right over the heads of almost everybody who has ever been a Christian or even heard about "Christianity" today.

In my opinion, Jesus was not a Christian and would not have subscribed to the religion as it stands today. If he was alive today, he would probably be a Sikh, or perhaps a Buddist -- but he certainly would NOT be a Christian.

JMHO



As far as the tattoo, I don't know what you meant by that. I think tattoos are up to each individual but that's my own opinion. I happen to respect individual rights and the ability of each person to understand God as God reveals himself (or herself) to that individual. I don't think it's up to any of us to judge what is right or wrong for the next guy as long as they are not harming or infringing upon the rights of others. 'He who is without sin cast the first stone,' so to speak.

Peace out!

 

[carolineislands]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

keeping in mind that projectnaad is questionable at best. they flaunt rehat maryada, teach yoga as a sex technique, believe "sat nam" is the "true name" of God. they believe the panj kakkars are ritualistic symbols, and are extremely anti-AKJ. their views on amrit are disturbing, to say the least.

Respectfully, Jasleen ji, I just looked at their website and downloaded a couple of their powerpoint presentations on Sikhi and I didn't get the impression that you have. Their presentation clearly names the panj kakkars/5 Ks as intergral part of Sikh commitment and names them all 5. And they don't say that "sat nam" is the true name of God. They say, as translated from the Mool Mantra that God's name is Truth. They actually say it like this:

Ik Ounkar - There is only One God, who creates, sustains and destroys, and exists without change
Sat Nam - God's name is Truth
Karta Purakh- God is the Creator, and resides within the Creation
Nirbhau - God is Fearless
Nirvair - God is without Enmity
Akal Murat - God is beyond time
Ajuni - God is unborn
Saibhan - God is self-existent
Gur Prasad - God is realised by the Grace of the Guru

The presentation then goes on to name the requirements of 5 Ks, the responsiblities of uncut hair, no adultery, tobacco use or meat eating. Then gives the morening, evening and bedtime prayers of Jap Jee Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Swayaia, Chopai, Anand Sahib for monring, evening is Rehras Sahib and bedtime is Keertan Sohila. Then it talks about the SGGS, explains a little about each of the 10 gurus, etc etc... Actually, I couldn't find a single thing that seemed out of line with what I've heard here on this forum.

Perhaps you have misjudged them? It might be worth a look.

Peace!

 

[Sikh Warrior]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

I don't like that. All the Abrahamic religions' core belief is that there is only one true path to God and that is Christianity, Judaism, Islam respectively. It is intrinsic to their belief system that anyone who does not follow that particular path is doomed to eternity in hell. They are required by the tennants of thier faith and laws of compassion to preach their particular gospel to people they consider "lost." Islam in particular is very intolerant of other faiths to this day, to the point that many Muslim scholars teach that it is only a sin to kill "innocents" and the definition to them of an innocent is a Muslim, therefore it is not a sin to kill non-Muslims.

Unofortunately, intolerance is part and parcel of the Abrahamic faiths as they are generally practiced. That's why I agree with the title of this thread that the Bible IS misunderstood by Christians. Jesus had a whole different kind of message, but it's gone right over the heads of almost everybody who has ever been a Christian or even heard about "Christianity" today.

In my opinion, Jesus was not a Christian and would not have subscribed to the religion as it stands today. If he was alive today, he would probably be a Sikh, or perhaps a Buddist -- but he certainly would NOT be a Christian.

JMHO



As far as the tattoo, I don't know what you meant by that. I think tattoos are up to each individual but that's my own opinion. I happen to respect individual rights and the ability of each person to understand God as God reveals himself (or herself) to that individual. I don't think it's up to any of us to judge what is right or wrong for the next guy as long as they are not harming or infringing upon the rights of others. 'He who is without sin cast the first stone,' so to speak.

Peace out!

hey,
thankz for the info. Really appreciate tht
also may i just ask where are you located?

 

[carolineislands]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

I live about 3/4 of the time in US and live part time and work in Haiti.

And to correct something I said about Jesus, he probably wouldn't be a mainstream, amritdhari Sikh because he wouldn't take up the sword... probably a Buddist monk.

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
John 4:14


ਸਾਂਤਿ ਭਈ ਬੁਝੀ ਸਭ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਅਨਦੁ ਭਇਆ ਸਭ ਠਾਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥
Sāʼnṯ bẖa­ī bujẖī sabẖṯarisnā anaḏ bẖa­i­ā sabẖṯẖā­ī jī­o. ||1||
Peace has come, and the thirst of all has been quenched; there is joy and ecstasy everywhere. ||1||[SIZE=-1]
Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE][/SIZE]

 

[futurekaur]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

Hey, I know I'm a bit late, but let someone with a Reform Jewish background join the conversation. I just read this by CarolineJi:

." It is intrinsic to their belief system that anyone who does not follow that particular path is doomed to eternity in hell. They are required by the tennants of thier faith and laws of compassion to preach their particular gospel to people they consider "lost"

And though I come from a very liberal background, I can tell you that Modern Jews today do not believe or practice this. Ancient Judaism was just interested in the ethnic Jewish people and their God, not in missionizing others and indeed believed in the 'Laws of Noah' that if other peoples practiced them they were godly...
Maybe this is why the Christians and Muslims did and do persecute Jewish people.

Now think of the Gurus and the Sikh religion. The Sikhs are monotheist, have the 10 Gurus and they never felt the need to persecute anyone, particularly Jewish people. And they spread Sikhi in a good and thoughtful way. I really admire this.

To me the 'proof is in the pudding' meaning you can talk all you want about Jesus & the 'Sermon on the Mount' etc....but I will take Sikh religion as promoting a better spiritual character and spiritual state over Christianity any day.

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

To me the 'proof is in the pudding' meaning you can talk all you want about Jesus & the 'Sermon on the Mount' etc....but I will take Sikh religion as promoting a better spiritual character and spiritual state over Christianity any day.

Futurekaur Ji,

Kindly can you elaborate a little on this ?

And to correct something I said about Jesus, he probably wouldn't be a mainstream, amritdhari Sikh because he wouldn't take up the sword... probably a Buddist monk.

Harjas Kaur Khalsa Ji mentioned something to this effect in another post. I could be mistaken.

In my opinion, Jesus was not a Christian and would not have subscribed to the religion as it stands today. If he was alive today, he would probably be a Sikh, or perhaps a Buddist -- but he certainly would NOT be a Christian.
JMHO

LOL There was no Christianity during the time of Jesus. What is JMHO ?

:rofl!!:I was so happy I thought I was in 7th heaven. There is also a seventh heaven -- you see, Christian thinking had antecedents in Judaism but also in Greek and Persian religious practices, particularly mystical traditions. The Hellenistic world of the time was awash in inter-mingling spiritual and religious ideas. What we have today are religions that forged new identities but from an amalgam of many different sources and philosophies. This link will help you out.

What is the "third heaven"?

I am still waiting to be linked to the seventh heaven.:crazy:

 

[carolineislands]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

RE: Jesus being a Christian... I realize there was no "Christianity" at that time == I thought I had prefaced that statement with, "IF Jesus were alive today." If not, I meant to...

 

[futurekaur]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

NamJap Ji;
Many Christians proclaim the example of Jesus and the morality of the 'Sermon on the Mount', as examples of the superiority of Christianity to other religions.

But coming from a Jewish background I have experienced the reality of Christianity. And that means about 2,000 years of persecution. From the time of the first Christian Emperor Constantine, innocent Jewish people were persecuted for their religion, later they were locked up in separate parts of the city called 'ghettos', for centuries on 'Good Friday' Christians would leave church and then attack innoncent peaceful Jewish adults and children. Christian hatred led to the Holocaust. All my paternal grandfather's relatives were murdered, for no other reason than their religion.

So to me Christianity seems to be a religion of hatred, like Islam. Whereas the Sikh religion teaches its followers to hate nobody and only to take arms to defend the weak. To me this is superior.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

NamJap Ji;
Many Christians proclaim the example of Jesus and the morality of the 'Sermon on the Mount', as examples of the superiority of Christianity to other religions.

But coming from a Jewish background I have experienced the reality of Christianity. And that means about 2,000 years of persecution. From the time of the first Christian Emperor Constantine, innocent Jewish people were persecuted for their religion, later they were locked up in separate parts of the city called 'ghettos', for centuries on 'Good Friday' Christians would leave church and then attack innoncent peaceful Jewish adults and children. Christian hatred led to the Holocaust. All my paternal grandfather's relatives were murdered, for no other reason than their religion.

So to me Christianity seems to be a religion of hatred, like Islam. Whereas the Sikh religion teaches its followers to hate nobody and only to take arms to defend the weak. To me this is superior.

And for centuries before that. It is shameful. An understatement at best. Whereas the Sikh religion teaches its followers to hate nobody and only to take arms to defend the weak. To me this is superior This is one of several reasons why many people are looking at Sikhim and converting.

 

[carolineislands]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

for centuries on 'Good Friday' Christians would leave church and then attack innoncent peaceful Jewish adults and children.

I did not know about this -- can you educate me, please? Thanks.

Christian hatred led to the Holocaust.

It's also the first time I've heard this. Can you explain what you mean?

Thank you so much!

I am very sorry for your family's suffering. One of the things about this world that I can never really understand is how people can continue to kill each other in the name of God.

 

[futurekaur]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

CarolineJi;
thank you for your kind words. I don't understand why a religion would teach people to hate...
here is a good link to the US Holocaust Museum, with articles Holocaust Encyclopedia and this one is very good:
"Anti-Semitism in History: From the Crucifixion to 1400:"
Antisemitism in History: From the Crucifixion of Christ to 1400
And as Antonia mentioned there is more: Christians persecuted 'heretics', Gnostics, Cathars, etc instituted the Inquisition, the Crusades...

I have to tell you: there are no contemporay accounts of Jesus..In Jesus' time in Roman Palestine there were many literate Jewish historians, like Philo Judaeus, Flavius Josephus, and Justus of Tiberias, who lived in Galilee itself. And they never once mentioned Jesus.

An acquitance who is a professor at Vanderbuilt Univeristy wrote this about the current understanding of historical Jesus by scholars.

" After John the Baptist was killed, a
disciple of John the Baptist took over his ministry
(although not without some rivalry with John's people)
-- this was Jesus. Following John's lead, Jesus of
Nazareth went around and literally preached the world
was going to end 2000 years ago.
He himself and his miracles were supposed to be a
signs themselves that the world was soon to end 2000
years ago. On this, he was dead wrong just like every
end-of-the-worlder ever since" This is the overwhelming consensus
view of historians and biblical scholars "

There is no evidence for the existance of either Solomon or Moses. There is evidence for Muhammad, but it doesn't inspire me to emulate his example.

The Sikh Gurus lived within history, their inspiring actions and words were written down. They left us with directions on ethics and how to attain spiritual liberation. It is a practical and mystical path that anyone living in the world can follow. This is what I find so great about sikhi.

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

FutureKaur Ji,

From your feedback, I feel that the lesser I know about Christianity's past the better because I need peace of mind rather than the opposite. See the latest post on the thread - Jews and Sikhs, how similar can we get. It's very informative.

~ namjap ~

 

[carolineislands]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

Thank you futurekaur. I know about the inquistion and the crusades. What I didn't quite understand is your statement that Christian hatred led up to the Holocaust. It almost sounds like you're saying Christianity somehow caused the Holocaust. I wondered if there are some events that I don't know about that actually led to the Holocaust.

One thing I am finding out is that almost every religion has a violent background, and some a violent present. If I dwell on that too much I get disheartened. I think the thing that helps me accept some of those things is when a religion is able to reform and leave the barbarity behind, such as Judaism. The Old Testament is one of the most violent, blo0dy texts I have ever read and the genocides and atrocities are found on almost every page. The so called "Christian" church that started with Constantine also has a horrendous blo0dy past. Islam.. well, wow lets not even go there. So I see that all Abrhamic religions have very blo0dy pasts and large sects of Islam are still pretty barbaric. What I respect about Judaism is that even though it has a violent and blo0dy past the jews have reformed the religion and are always open to dialog and change. That's very admirable in my opinion. Christians too have done this in many ways. I believe there are moderate Muslims who are working towards reform in Islam as well.

Even Sikhism has a lot of blood in its history. The difference is that, in most cases, Sikhs only took up the sword in defense. Because of the situation in India, it is still a necessity to defend themselves. I think these blo0dy attacks go on all over the world. Hindus slaughtering Sikhs and Muslims in India, Muslims slaughtering Christians in Indonesia, Muslims slaughtering Muslims in Saudi Arabia.

From what I read, Sikhs have in some cases, resorted to violence for vengeance as in the case of some retaliatory massacres during partition and the two Sikhs that killed Indira Gandhi. Not that she didn't deserve it-- I think she did. But it was vengeance, after all. And I don't believe that is technically allowed in Sikhi.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sikhi is definitely the youngest, most enlightened faith. As for the least violent, I'm not sure. My area of study was Afro-Caribbean culture and grassroots development, so this is pretty much my first foray into Eastern history and culture. So I freely admit my ignorance.

I am curious about the history of Buddism, as far as violence. The only violence I ever hear concerning Buddists are against them == never the other way around, even in retaliation. Am I wrong?

I so much appreciate all of your informative posts -- all of you here on this forum. It is a great learning experience for me.

If anyone ever wants to know anything about Haitian or Afro Caribbean culture please feel free to ask. LOL I know -- not likely.

 

[carolineislands]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

Oh and by the way, Josephus Flavius actually did speak of Jesus Christ and described him and spoke of his works. I have his complete works here in my library and he speaks about Jesus and his crucifixion in Book 18.

Just FYI

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Is the Bible Misunderstood by Christians ?

Oh and by the way, Josephus Flavius actually did speak of Jesus Christ and described him and spoke of his works. I have his complete works here in my library and he speaks about Jesus and his crucifixion in Book 18.

Just FYI

Caroline ji, I too understand this to be the case.

Having said this, I will not be alas a participant in the thread any longer.

NOTE: IN ORDER TO MODERATE THIS THREAD, I WILL BE RECUSING MYSELF AS A DISCUSSANT.