General Is There A God?

[jasi]

SS AKAL Ji.

Bhagat Singh ji.




Jaspi ji,
Quote:
Spiritually bankrupt society is much more destructive than scientific destructive inventions.

As human brain is eternally wired in with faith and empathetic attitude before even birth.
You are confusing the terms spirituality, empathy and religion.

The religion or different people 's belief and onion about Almighty in a organized ways to conditions being spiritual.
The fact that its possible to go through those things separately shows that they are not always the same thing.
Spirituality is the process of discovering your inner essence of being.

Siprituality is process of condition by any organized religions but to create and show the path to ralize the almighty which is was created by Guru Nanak Dev in a such simple common language in Punjabi where every common person can understand.

Empathy is understanding how the other feels.

That can only happened when one's empathy is awaken to feel being in other person's shoes not understanding other person.

Religion is a set of beliefs about the world, some of which must be practiced in order to obtain well being of the community.
Faith is belief without evidence.
EDIT:
So my question is:
If empathy is already wired in and when spiritual experiences can be obtained by the "non-believers", what need is there for religion?

Religion or different people's beliefs about existences of Almighty or worship of daities.

But to realize the Almighty has been very clearly explained in Jap Ji Saheb Ji which can be achieved without joining any group of people who has a different belief in Almighty.

But GURU NANAK DEV JI paved a road where any one can walk without having any special tags of belonging to small or large organized people from hindereds of religions.

Faith is actually wired into the brain of a baby and it has evolutionary reasons. Believing blindly is very important for a child as it could mean the difference between life and death. But is it important for an adult? How? (keeping in mind its different from empathy, religion and spirituality)

Faith is not wired in the brain that is why Japji is a tool designed to deliver a human being to a higher level of consciousness. Japji is a requirement for the seeker of Truth. The Sound Current of Japji and the meaning of its words, when meditated upon with openness and love, awakens a soul to its destiny. Step by step, Japji gives you the comprehensive power to know yourself as you are and be one with God's Creation in a spirit of joyful surrender and connection.

But any baby when it reaches to his adulthood or teenage can have blind faith during bringing up by parents or by Godly blessings.

Similarly blind faith is begins to sink in some time from early age of a child if parental start spiritual conditioning at thier homes.

Jaspi

 

[Archived_member14]

Narayanjot ji,


You asked:
I am curious why there would be no soul in Buddhism. There may be either doctrinal disagreements on that point, or perhaps differences in definitions, as there are in Sikhism over the nature of jeevatma and paramatma., and the relationship between them.


S: Firstly I’d like you to know that I brought this matter up only because of what I judged to be a misrepresentation on your part. And I expressed more or less categorically and not give any real explanation because I didn’t really wish to get into a discussion about this question of ‘soul’ or ‘self’. But now that you have asked, I’ll say what I can and would be happy not to pursue with the discussion if you think that it won’t help anyone here.


My understanding and conviction on this point does not come from reading statements in the texts and arriving at the conclusion as a result of reasoning, nor is it that I follow some authority. The original texts as they are, especially when the ancient commentaries are not taken into consideration, could be read by anyone to say what they want it to say. In this regard I’d sometimes point out the difference between reading with wrong understanding and self view from reading with some level of right understanding / view. The former would for example, read much of what the Buddha said as ‘prescriptions’ to follow and things to do, while the latter would see this as in fact encouraging of rites and rituals and instead read any and everything in the texts as ‘description’ of the way things are.

The Buddha described in many ways the nature of conditioned realities. The Abhidhamma starts with distinguishing mentality and materiality, or of there being four kinds, namely consciousness, mental factors, materiality and Nibbana (Nirvana). Of these the first three are conditioned realities and the last is unconditioned. Leaving out Nibbana here, in the discourses, these same realities are spoken of in terms of five aggregates, eighteen elements or twelve bases and these are said to be that which constitutes the ‘All’. Most importantly when he talked about the Four Noble Truths, he was making the distinction between the conditioned realities which make up our lives, the cause for their continued coming to be, the fact of there being the unconditioned reality without which there wouldn’t be the possibility of escape and the way leading to this. And here ‘Noble’ is reference to the enlightened people, implying that this is what they come to know in the process and as result. Moreover, the Buddha also taught about the Dependent Origination, which I referred to in an earlier post, i.e. from ignorance comes formations, from formations arise consciousness etc., which basically says that this is all there is from moment to moment, namely the realities that are cause and those that are result .

In addition to all this, based on the classification into the five aggregates the Buddha also described the twenty ways in which these conditioned realities (4 times 5) are taken for ‘self’ and this being precisely due to the reality of ‘self view’. Moreover in one of his most important discourses, namely the Brahmajala Sutta or Discourse on the All Embracing Net of Views, the Buddha listed out sixty odd wrong conclusions derived from misunderstanding and misperception of one’s experiences many of which were in fact associated with meditative practices followed not only by the various traditions at the time, but at all time. This particular sutta is listed in the canon in second place reflecting its great importance.

And in the very first discourse listed, which happens to be my very favourite, the Mullapariyaya Sutta or Discourse on The Root of Existence, the Buddha talked to a group of followers of another teacher about the difference between a) the ‘uninstructed worldling’, those who have no inclination to ever want to hear the Truth, b) the ‘instructed followers’ who see value in the teachings ranging from those just beginning to understand to those who have developed much understanding but are not yet enlightened, c) the ‘learners’, namely the enlightened ones below arahatta and d) the ‘non-learner’, namely the arahatta. He showed how with the same experience such as that of the earth element, the uninstructed worldling starts a chain of ‘conceivings’ thinking in terms of self and other and taking them as I, me and mine, and how this was different in the case of the other three groups of people. This is one of the very few instances in which the audience didn’t go away pleased, but due to being quite conceited they grew very aversive at the end of it all, so much so that all vomited blood by the time the discourse was over.


Belief in ‘self’ arises due to the mental factor ‘sakya ditthi’ or ‘self view’ and this as I said above, is due to misapprehension of any one of the five aggregates in one of the four possible ways. ‘Miccha ditthi’ or ‘wrong view’ which invariably arises based on the self view, is what is described in the Brahmajala Sutta, and the belief in ‘soul’ is associated with one or more of these.

And the problem is compounded due to the fact of one consciousness arsing one following the other without a gap extremely rapidly. Something like a trillion mind moments in one second, which is why it seems to us that there occurs for example, the experience of seeing someone talk and a sense of I as the experiencer, all happening more or less simultaneously.
I like the following description in the preface of one of the commentaries:

Quote:
“Because the functions of the elements give rise to the concepts of continuity, collection and form, the ideas arise:
1)the initial effort that has to be exerted when a deed is about to be performed and
2) the care that has to be taken while the deed is being performed to its completion and this leads to the subsequent ideas
3)”I can perform” and
4) “I can feel”.

Thus these four imaginary characteristic functions of being have bought about a deep-rooted belief in their existence. But the elements have not the time or span of duration to carry out such functions.”<end quote>


From all this I hope you can see that once our experience is understood as being one moment of consciousness arisen through one doorway at a time, there is indeed no place for the experience of ‘soul’ anywhere. But let’s take the experience of one doorway, say seeing. This seeing is a kind of consciousness which is resultant. It arises accompanied by what is called mental factors each performing particular functions playing their part in the process, this includes such as concentration, attention, perception, feeling etc. Both these, consciousness and the accompanying mental factors are of the same type, in this case ‘resultant’ consciousness, and arise due to the same cause (karma in the past) and fall away together. And they must arise at the same material base, here ‘eye’, and experience the same object, which is ‘visible object’ in this case. This is the kind of thing that happens from moment to moment at one of the six doorways. So you can begin to appreciate that indeed all there are, is just the arising and falling away of these conditioned and extremely fleeting impersonal realities and nothing more.

---------------
N: Last night I watched videos of H.E. Tsem Thulku Rimpoche. He said a lot, but what sticks this morning is his comment, When you find yourself living outside of the Dharma, stop!


S: I won’t comment on this especially since right now I feel extremely tired having had only one hour sleep last night. And I think you can guess why and how I must more or less feel given that I wore an orange coloured T-shirt to bed. ;-)

Sukinder

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Seeker9 ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

But returning to the original question then, what do folks think? Does God exist? Simple Yes or No would be fine....

Your question reminds me of what my daughter Jaskeerat when she asked the same question at the age of 12 and wrote a little essay about it which is posted in the following thread:

My Questions And Answer By Jaskeerat Kaur

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/61-what-is-god.html

 

[Seeker9]

Seeker9 ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:



Your question reminds me of what my daughter Jaskeerat when she asked the same question at the age of 12 and wrote a little essay about it which is posted in the following thread:

My Questions And Answer By Jaskeerat Kaur

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/61-what-is-god.html

An impressive contribution from one so young!

 

[spnadmin]

Here is another article, recently posted in the forum, and sent to us by Tejwant Singh Malik, which is relevant to the thread topic.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/inter...ience-and-religion-compatible.html#post129817

 

[simplethings]

I feel like there is a creator because there is a creation.

How would all of this have gotten here if there was no force to make it so?

I feel like trying to understand god is difficult because of our human perspective.

I always used to pray at night to god to send me a sign that he was there. I never realized that the sign was always right in front of me.

The fact that I am here along with everything else and I am aware of it is enough proof for me.

I've recently adopted a new idea of god. I feel like god is everything in existence and the reason why we can't understand god is because we can't get a look at the big picture of god.

I feel like we are stuck in our own little streams of consciousness. So instead of understanding it in every perspective possible, we understand it in one.

And I feel like god is all the perspectives.

And I feel like when we die, we go back to that. We go back to the all being. I think our ego dissolves and we experience something greater than ourselves.

This is just what makes sense to me at this point in my life. My opinion may change but nothing ever really made any kind of sense to me before.

I think this video may have been one of the things that influenced my opinion:

YouTube- How it feels to have a stroke

 

[Harry Rakhraj]

When I was younger, much much younger, I used to think, rationally think about God. Groping in the dark, searching for signs that would prove His existence or otherwise. As the child of "devout Sikhs", my mind was strait-jacketed into accepting His existence.

Now that I am older, elderly rather, I see the futility of that exercise. Think & God in the same sentence is, to me, an oxy{censored}. Of course I believe in Akalpurukh now but my concept of the Ultimate has undergone a sea change. To say the least, my concept of the Ultimate is at total variance with the Judeo-Christian God.

I have realized that one can only become aware that God is. Yes, aware! Not feel or sense or even reason. Just aware. And that you cannot share this awareness with anyone else. Its strictly personal. Even writing this piece... Ah, well! My awareness is not yet that intense as it surely will become as I progress in my dhyaan, not meditation.

I do not feel the need to read books on God, listen to discourses or even try to explain, why or why not, I believe what I believe. In other words, the Question itself has lost all relevance, all urgency. What is relevant to me is my own awareness.
I am just aware, without reason or proof, that God is. That God is all there is, as Buckminster Fuller puts it so eloquently. And that is enough.

 

[polpol]

Simplethings ji, I like your name. I did not see th video but I appreciate your words of humility, simplicity and just plain humanity. icecreamkaur

 

[BhagatSingh]

When I was younger, much much younger, I used to think, rationally think about God. Groping in the dark, searching for signs that would prove His existence or otherwise. As the child of "devout Sikhs", my mind was strait-jacketed into accepting His existence.

Now that I am older, elderly rather, I see the futility of that exercise. Think & God in the same sentence is, to me, an oxy{censored}. Of course I believe in Akalpurukh now but my concept of the Ultimate has undergone a sea change. To say the least, my concept of the Ultimate is at total variance with the Judeo-Christian God.

I have realized that one can only become aware that God is. Yes, aware! Not feel or sense or even reason. Just aware. And that you cannot share this awareness with anyone else. Its strictly personal. Even writing this piece... Ah, well! My awareness is not yet that intense as it surely will become as I progress in my dhyaan, not meditation.

I do not feel the need to read books on God, listen to discourses or even try to explain, why or why not, I believe what I believe. In other words, the Question itself has lost all relevance, all urgency. What is relevant to me is my own awareness.
I am just aware, without reason or proof, that God is. That God is all there is, as Buckminster Fuller puts it so eloquently. And that is enough.

Harry ji,
Many mystics share your experience.
Please share your experiences with us, of that which you became aware of. What happened etc? What exactly did you become aware of? etc etc
I await your response.

 

[BhagatSingh]

I feel like there is a creator because there is a creation.

Hmm... saying that there is a creation implies a creator... of course! But why do you say that there is a "creation" and not someTHING that just happened to be there before you?

 

[BhagatSingh]

Seeker9 ji

Blind faith is wired in the baby before the baby was born. I can understand that, Is it mean wired for the religion faith? What about the people who were born in USSR they never heard the name of God or religion. Yet they lived a spiritually. I have meat meny who had no concept of God till they came to Canada or USA.

When one claim that his religion is the only true religion I think he is talking from his EGO. That preaches hatred.

By blind faith I don't mean religious faith, I mean having faith on the parents to guide you without questioning them why. Though religious is not too different from that.

Imagine if there were such things as skeptic babies, then they'd be dead. "Look out for the cliff?"
Baby: *thinks* "what cliff, I see no cliff..."*splat*
Now there's a cartoon to explain why faith is wired into a baby's head.

I have met many people, who do not believe in a God just because it was never mentioned in their family. But the relationship between a baby's faith towards his parents is the same as the faith of a religious person towards a perceived God. Notice how God is often perceived as a father figure in most cultures. (Anyways, that is a very superficial understanding, compared to the video below which goes in depth.)

If you are really interested in the psychological perspective of religion and God, then I recommend this video to you, a lecture from Andy Thompson. He uses the word "hijack" don't take offense at it.
YouTube- Why We Believe in Gods - Andy Thomson - American Atheists 09

 

[Bmandur]

Yes There is a GOD

Where!

In side you If you are True& Faithfull in your Religon

Gurfateh

 

[findingmyway]

Dear Atheist ji (and others),
I've enjoyed reading this fascinating thread but I feel it has gone off track so I would like to answer your original question about why I believe in God.

First to give you some background I am both a scientist and a believer of the Sikh way of life. The 2 are not mutually exclusive. However, I'm not going to talk about religion as I feel that is a whole other topic and we each have our own interpretation of religion. I'm going to focus on the belief in God, which for me came before my belief in religion (though I often argue that Sikhism isn't a religion but a way of life).

My proof for God is constantly all around me. I see it in the everyday miracles of life. Science can only go so far in its explanations and admits it has its limitations. Here are a few examples to illustrate but there are millions of possible examples. Science can explain how and why the human body works the way it does but can't explain exactly how things have developed that way-evolution is explained as a process but not why evolution is the way it is. Science explains why and how a butterfly has stunning colours but it cannot explain the pleasure felt by a person watching that butterfly. Science can explain how a brain is wired and which pathways cause which emotions but it can't explain why those pathways are subtly different in different people resulting in different behaviour. Science can explain the process of the big bang but cannot ever know the cause of the big bang and what came before. Science knows that the universe is expanding but can never know what it's expanding into. Science can explain why some plants have healing properties but cannot explain why it is that way-why not all plants or why not others! I could go on forever! I find it incredible that the exact conditions required for a planet so rich in life has been combined for it to happen. I find that miraculous. Science can explain the how but not the why about this fact. Some wise person (Narayanjot Kaur I think) on page 10 said that gravity cannot be directly measured or observed but we know of its existence indirectly through its effects. In the same way I cannot measure or observe God but I believe in the concept of God as I can indirectly see/feel/observe the effects of God all around me. You cannot compare believing in God to believing in unicorns as unicorns are a physical being but God is not. God is perceived indirectly therefore is it a little more comparable to the belief in gravity. I hope this ramble makes sense!

The other reason I believe in God is that the belief for me is strength. I went through a phase after being bullied for 7 years in school of refusing to believe in God as I could not believe that a God would allow so much suffering. I changed after encountering more difficulties later in life and finding only belief in God gave me the strength to deal with life. Belief in God is a great source of strength, inspiration and conscience. It is not the only way to gain these things but when not doing any harm why not. As I said earlier I have proof enough that God exists to convince me.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Jasleen Kaur

 

[findingmyway]

I asked my teenage sister the questions and loved her answer so thought that I would share. She said she believes in God because it gives her hope. Once you take away hope, life becomes miserable!

As an aside, please can I request when people quote from Gurbani, that they write the entire verse. With only 1 or 2 lines, the true meaning of the Shabad often gets lost :happykaur:

 

[Seeker9]

Seeker9 ji
By blind faith I don't mean religious faith, I mean having faith on the parents to guide you without questioning them why. Though religious is not too different from that.

Imagine if there were such things as skeptic babies, then they'd be dead. "Look out for the cliff?"
Baby: *thinks* "what cliff, I see no cliff..."*splat*
Now there's a cartoon to explain why faith is wired into a baby's head.

I have met many people, who do not believe in a God just because it was never mentioned in their family. But the relationship between a baby's faith towards his parents is the same as the faith of a religious person towards a perceived God. Notice how God is often perceived as a father figure in most cultures. (Anyways, that is a very superficial understanding, compared to the video below which goes in depth.)

If you are really interested in the psychological perspective of religion and God, then I recommend this video to you, a lecture from Andy Thompson. He uses the word "hijack" don't take offense at it.
YouTube- Why We Believe in Gods - Andy Thomson - American Atheists 09

Many thanks but I think you might have the wrong seeker there!! I think this is for Seeker3K!! Easily done

 

[a.mother]

Yes There is a GOD

Where!

In side you If you are True& Faithfull in your Religon

Gurfateh

Sat sri akal Bmandur ji, You are right 100%.I don't think so if i can find any easy and right sentence to say this. this is not math or sience that have physical proof . This is your inside story and your eyes, its totally depend on you what you can see. Thanks,

 

[polpol]

Blessings, Findingmyway ji, I appreciate your thoughts. wahkaur

 

[seeker3k]

Yes There is a GOD

Where!

In side you If you are True& Faithfull in your Religon

Gurfateh

Dear Bmandur ji,

It is nice of you to say that god is inside of one who is true and faithful in his religion.
Is the god is in the Muslim who is true and faithful to his religion and kill the non believer?

 

[polpol]

icecreamkaurThe question "Do I beleave in God?" is just one part of the problem. We must also ask ourselves "Does God beleave in me?" I say this because I have come to beleave in God because time and time again God has shown me that he beleaves in me! You cannot truely beleave in God if God has not shown you a sign and only you can know this, no priest, no guru can do this for you. They can help you and guide you but you are the only captain of your spiritual ship. In regards to God, we are completely alone, religion can help but it is not at all necessary; there is one humanity, one God and there are different languages, different cultures, different religions that all tend to that same God who has different names. It's all ok like that because diversity is good, God likes diversity, he showded it in the material world he created. :happykaur:

 

[hsaluja]

One would think in all the chaos, in all this randomness, all the cruelty that surrounds us, there is no god.
I believe in God, because it brings hope.
Spiritual experience, well it can be as simple as a dream in the morning that you can not forget even after waking up to something much bigger.
One of my friends used to say, that the world is a garden, and god is the Gardner.