I think that he who kills for the religion is misled and has not really understood his religion. I can not believe that any religion can preach about harming another human being.
I think that he who kills for the religion is misled and has not really understood his religion. I can not believe that any religion can preach about harming another human being.
Thank you for your Question with Question
I said : Yes There is a God
Where:
In side you If you are True& Faithfull in your Religion
Not in your Own Religion
A Muslims or others,"If they kill NON Believer than there is NO GOD IN SIDE There faith"
A TRUE & Faithfull person in Religion will respect others other wise they are not in there religion.
Bhul Chuk Maaf
GOD IS IN SIDE YOU
Dear polpol,
Very good question you have asked. I always ask that to believer if God believe in you.
It is puzzling to me that you have asked the question to God and you have answered for him. It would have been nice if God could answer him self.
In Quran, they are advised to defend themselves. Even we are supposed to stand up against oppression.
So what is the context of your question?
If you are indicating towards, what is going on these days with the terrorism, they are a misled, misinformed people and we should leave Islam and common Muslim out of that, because they are doing there own revenge hatred thing now.
Do not judge God on the actions of people. People still have free will so will bend the rules of religion and use this for personal gain just like they will use position in government or a bank or any other place. One corrupt bank official does not make the bank bad as an organisation. In the same way someone who commits atrocities in the name of God is not really representing God but is hiding behind God's name. The question here was not about religion but about the existence of God. A few bad, selfish people cannot be used as proof that God does not exist. The merits of organised religion is a different debate.
Originally Posted by seeker3k
Dear Bmandur ji,
It is nice of you to say that god is inside of one who is true and faithful in his religion.
Is the god is in the Muslim who is true and faithful to his religion and kill the non believer?
Seeker 3k JI
MY answer was to your question
A Muslims or others,"If they kill NON Believer than there is NO GOD IN SIDE There faith"
A TRUE & Faithfull person in Religion will respect others other wise they are not in there religion.
No Religion tells you to go & kill some one," if you are True & Faithfull to your religion". Tell me what is "Religion" in your knolowdge!
My reply was to Bmandur not against the muslim as whole. If Muslim is true to his religion and he kill no believer then why God don’t stop him? Now Bmandur says there is no God in that person. How can one live with out God. We been told nothing is done with out his hukam.
Any way I do not want to make this argument.
Now the new twist comes into picture.
The FREE WILL.
How the free will works? I still can not grasp it. As findingmyway claims. Can he or any other give more information on free will?
I will relate my belief to free will back to karma which has been mentioned a lot in this post. Free will means we make our own decisions. How much we listen to conscience is upto us. One path will take us towards good and the other towards bad. There are lots of twists and turns on the way which is why those paths are not direct! If we did not have free will, the concept of karma would become nil and void. Hukam does not mean Waheguru is a puppet master making us all dance. Accepting hukam means having the strength to accept all that happens to you in life-good and bad, and not demanding God give you this that and the other.
Seeker3K ji,
I am not sure I understand what puzzles you. I didn't ask God if he beleaved in me. I simply came to realise (not a revelation, just a feeling), that he did, poetically speaking. I see again how it is difficult to talk about such things...I should stop!...just one last thing, I also meant that I'm never worried about him punishing me, life itself puts me back on the right track when I go wrong...I guess this also needs explanation...but I must shut up and learn more about Sikhism, I feel I'm proselysing God!
Seeker 3K ji,
I just realised that we both came up with this idea "Does God beleave in you",you, in regards to beleavers and me in regards to non-beleavers. Do you think this idea is out there or is it just us? I would also be grateful if you elaborate on this question. Thank you kindly.
I just realised that we both came up with this idea "Does God beleave in you",you, in regards to beleavers and me in regards to non-beleavers. Do you think this idea is out there or is it just us? I would also be grateful if you elaborate on this question. Thank you kindly.
Seeker 3K ji,
I just realised that we both came up with this idea "Does God beleave in you",you, in regards to beleavers and me in regards to non-beleavers. Do you think this idea is out there or is it just us? I would also be grateful if you elaborate on this question. Thank you kindly.
Pol Pol ji and Seeker 3k ji,
Guru Fateh.
I am confused by the question,"Does God beleave in you"?
Only mortal people believe in each other in the animal world.
So, my question to both of you is that in your minds, is God a mortal being when you pose this question to yourself, to each other and to others?
I know in Sikhi that is not the case with Ik Ong Kaar.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
findingmyway
In Sikhism we been told by bhai ji and others that With out the God (waheguru) not even one leaf can move. When I was going ashram to ashram in Rishikesh and other places. I asked about the karma. They told me as the bhai ji told me. That we take birth according to the past karma. If I have done good karma then my life will be good. If I done bad karama then my like will be suffering. It is God decide where and when I will be born and when and where I will die. And how I will die. At that time God decided how long I will live. How much and what good I will eat. I can not take one grain that I was not allowed.
This is like a movie. Where the director have decided the dialog and what cloths I can wear in the movie. Which hand I can move up or down. What I am saying every move is decided by the director of the movie.
Is there a free will here? This free idea is mostly used by Christians. I put the question to them. If I am driving and I come up at T junction. I can turn right or left. God knows which way I am going to turn. Because by turning the way God had decided I will get into accident with another car. This always said if one dies it was written this way by God. I don’t know that what God knows. Can I turn the other way which God have decided for me? If so am I over riding God’s decision?
The question I put to the rishis was If I go to friends home and I took some from that house with him knowing. Stealing. Am I going to give it back to him in next life or did he stole from me in last life? How can I know what is right? Every thing is written by God and it can not be changed. Just like the movie the villain have to his part. The villain can not change the script, that he won’t kill the hero.
You see how it is so complicated. It is easy to say but don’t make ant sense at all.
If every thing is happening to me loss or gain due to my last karma. Then I am not doing any new karma. Then this is my last birth. Because I should be born based on karma. I am not doing any new karma so how can I take birth. Those rishis kicked me out say I am nastic.
You are lucky person if got it figured it out.
My intention is not to insult any one. If some one gets hurt emotionally then I am sorry.
In Sikhism we been told by bhai ji and others that With out the God (waheguru) not even one leaf can move. When I was going ashram to ashram in Rishikesh and other places. I asked about the karma. They told me as the bhai ji told me. That we take birth according to the past karma. If I have done good karma then my life will be good. If I done bad karama then my like will be suffering. It is God decide where and when I will be born and when and where I will die. And how I will die. At that time God decided how long I will live. How much and what good I will eat. I can not take one grain that I was not allowed.
This is like a movie. Where the director have decided the dialog and what cloths I can wear in the movie. Which hand I can move up or down. What I am saying every move is decided by the director of the movie.
Is there a free will here? This free idea is mostly used by Christians. I put the question to them. If I am driving and I come up at T junction. I can turn right or left. God knows which way I am going to turn. Because by turning the way God had decided I will get into accident with another car. This always said if one dies it was written this way by God. I don’t know that what God knows. Can I turn the other way which God have decided for me? If so am I over riding God’s decision?
The question I put to the rishis was If I go to friends home and I took some from that house with him knowing. Stealing. Am I going to give it back to him in next life or did he stole from me in last life? How can I know what is right? Every thing is written by God and it can not be changed. Just like the movie the villain have to his part. The villain can not change the script, that he won’t kill the hero.
You see how it is so complicated. It is easy to say but don’t make ant sense at all.
If every thing is happening to me loss or gain due to my last karma. Then I am not doing any new karma. Then this is my last birth. Because I should be born based on karma. I am not doing any new karma so how can I take birth. Those rishis kicked me out say I am nastic.
You are lucky person if got it figured it out.
My intention is not to insult any one. If some one gets hurt emotionally then I am sorry.
Dear seeker3j Ji,
I am sorry but I don't agree with the above as if that was the case then why should we try and improve ourselves and why should we make an effort in life? Our decisions affect what happens to us. We have to decide whether we go on the path towards God or away from God. If I drive recklessly that will increase my chances of dying whether it was written or not! I'm sorry but I find the idea of God a as a puppet master as absurd! It gives absolutely no incentive for improving oneself and as you said above is not compatible with theory about karma. However, this is straying off the point raised at the beginning of the thread about whether there is a God adn why people believe in God!
I am sorry but I don't agree with the above as if that was the case then why should we try and improve ourselves and why should we make an effort in life? Our decisions affect what happens to us. We have to decide whether we go on the path towards God or away from God. If I drive recklessly that will increase my chances of dying whether it was written or not! I'm sorry but I find the idea of God a as a puppet master as absurd! It gives absolutely no incentive for improving oneself and as you said above is not compatible with theory about karma. However, this is straying off the point raised at the beginning of the thread about whether there is a God adn why people believe in God!
The question “if there is God”. It can not be isolated. Or you and others are looking for the simple answer as to yes or no.
What I said in my post it also written in the granth. We have no control on our life. It is all decided by God before we are born. It was you who stated the karma and free will. What should reader do? It mean you don’t want the reply you just want to preach what you know. No one knows how the karma works. It is prime example that you believe in one thing I believe in other thing. It is only one karma. It looks to me your version is right not others. In one case the bani is wrong your belief or mine.
As I said before we all make up our own truth. And we refuse to check if I could be wrong. The kids ask these question and other religious ask these kind of questions. If we can not explain to our kids or those who ask they there is some thing wrong in our belief of religion.
Here is my answer to if there is God. There is no religious God.
One can find any shred of word to prove that he is right.
Good luck in your way to where ever you are going
Gurbani also talks a lot about how we should behave towards other beings and how we should combat the 5 thieves. If all our actions are pre-decided what use is such instruction and how do we follow it since we have no control?
Seeker3k ji, please provide a Gurbani quote to support your theory?
Maybe one of the wiser members on the forum could provide us with some guidance on this issue as there are 2 opposing views here?! Many thanks.
Seeker3k ji, please provide a Gurbani quote to support your theory?
Maybe one of the wiser members on the forum could provide us with some guidance on this issue as there are 2 opposing views here?! Many thanks.
I would like to interject this thought. Along the way the forum discussions have indeed more than one theory working about the nature of karma and the nature of hukam. This may be an accurate reflection of the thinking that is current within the panth. Personally I do not see God as a puppet master or executive scripting program on the hard drive of the universe making each and every event occur in a highly scripted way. Having said that in the past I have myself encountered reactions ranging from animosity to contempt to pity to parental concern for my views.
I think it is unavoidable. It would be better for these discussions to be carried out as far as they can go for parchar of the shabad is what we should be doing anyway.
Let's try to get back to the original topic. If needed I will start a new thread on this angle of the discussion. If someone else wants to start a new thread then I will be glad to copy or move some of this discussion to that new location.
Thank you
I think it is unavoidable. It would be better for these discussions to be carried out as far as they can go for parchar of the shabad is what we should be doing anyway.
Let's try to get back to the original topic. If needed I will start a new thread on this angle of the discussion. If someone else wants to start a new thread then I will be glad to copy or move some of this discussion to that new location.
Thank you
SS AKAL JI.
Myself I am really shocked by the questions and answer on Sikh philosophy forum .
There are two thing to consider:
-GOD
-KARMA
1. Nanak used a very simple language to explain about Ek Onkar.(GOD)
2. Karma
Simply what most of the prophets or messenger quoted as :
"What you sow ,so shall you reap." Moses
" Karmi apo apni ke neher kia door" Nanak
"Action and reactions are equal and opposite" scientist physist Paul newnam
So basically there are two belief to consider.
Leave the God alone because there is no one came or existing human being can speak about the Almighty . refe. Jap ji Sahib".
Karma one must get it back according to his deed in this world before dieing. Other all rules and instructions how to live in healthy society. Like ten Commandments is nothing but bunches of t rule to live in Harmony.
Stop talking about God who has nothing to do with punishing any one or rewarding any
one but regardless of any reasons we must appreciate for his creations.That is it what say Nanak.
All these bunches of people or priests who organized the religion and created hatred are old time business to rule the society.
Nanak never created in religion . His preaching and consideration of all of us with one belief that we all come from one light which means it's a universal religion not only for the Sikhs.
Sikh means just a learner . Learner of what? Truth.
Jaspi
ikonkaar
Myself I am really shocked by the questions and answer on Sikh philosophy forum .
There are two thing to consider:
-GOD
-KARMA
1. Nanak used a very simple language to explain about Ek Onkar.(GOD)
2. Karma
Simply what most of the prophets or messenger quoted as :
"What you sow ,so shall you reap." Moses
" Karmi apo apni ke neher kia door" Nanak
"Action and reactions are equal and opposite" scientist physist Paul newnam
So basically there are two belief to consider.
Leave the God alone because there is no one came or existing human being can speak about the Almighty . refe. Jap ji Sahib".
Karma one must get it back according to his deed in this world before dieing. Other all rules and instructions how to live in healthy society. Like ten Commandments is nothing but bunches of t rule to live in Harmony.
Stop talking about God who has nothing to do with punishing any one or rewarding any
one but regardless of any reasons we must appreciate for his creations.That is it what say Nanak.
All these bunches of people or priests who organized the religion and created hatred are old time business to rule the society.
Nanak never created in religion . His preaching and consideration of all of us with one belief that we all come from one light which means it's a universal religion not only for the Sikhs.
Sikh means just a learner . Learner of what? Truth.
Jaspi
ikonkaar
Pol Pol ji and Seeker 3k ji,
Guru Fateh.
I am confused by the question,"Does God beleave in you"?
Only mortal people believe in each other in the animal world.
So, my question to both of you is that in your minds, is God a mortal being when you pose this question to yourself, to each other and to others?
I know in Sikhi that is not the case with Ik Ong Kaar.
Regards
Tejwant ji,
I came up with the idea that I beleave in God because God beleaves in me a few years ago. It was an affirmation which I turned into a question for others as another way of reflecting on our relation to God. Of course I don't see God as a mortal being, but being myself a mortal ie. limited by language, culture and intelligeance, I can only refer to God in mortal terms. I realise it may seem blasphemous and I am sorry if I shocked you. To me it's also a way to express gratitude and joy for God. I also use it as a "boutade" (in French, sorry), to cut short when someone wants to convince me God does not exist, "I cannot help but to beleave in God because God beleaves in me" I don't know how it is called in English that kind of reasoning...anyways I am really sorry if I shocked you. I would be obliged if you explain IK Ong Kaar in Sikhi. Thank you kindly.
Harry Rakhraj
SPNer
- Jan 16, 2010
- 36
- 69
That's the beauty of Universal-'ism (apologies to Sarah Palin)---the concept of blasphemy simply doesn't exist.
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