Bhagat Singh ji, please explain the mis-interpretation... Thanks
Jyots In Gurdwaras?
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Why light a Jyot?
http://www.namdhari-world.com/nw/why_light_a_jyot.html
Kuka Faith
The importance of lighting jyot is to invite Sri Satguru Ram Singh ji to the place as HE had said that "Jis ghar vich jyot jagdi hai, os ghar vich Satguru Ram Singh ji da pehra hunda hai".
The light and ghee that is used to light jyot is also accepted by the 'agni dev'. So we should always light jyot every morning in order to invite him and then do naam simran in HIS existance.
Method to light jyot - we should light in front of Sri Satguru Ram Singh ji's photo. We need uncooked rice underneath jyot and a glass of water besides it so as to offer HIM the jal. And jal has to be changed everyday for HIM. Once we light jyot, we should prepare a place for HIM as well by putting an aasan at a place where HE should sit 'biraajman'.
OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH!!!!!!
Makes me just want to run out and join the Namdharis! Er, who the H is Sri Satguru Ram Singh?
(Of course, I'm being sarcastic.) peacesignkaur
- Dec 21, 2010
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peacesign
Ambarsaria is Sarcastic too below peacesign
Tie a white turban 90 degrees off, start lighting a Jyot and start paying for the light/enlightenment one way or another!
Sat Sri Akal.
Bhain Inderjeet Kaur ji it is easy.OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH!!!!!!
Makes me just want to run out and join the Namdharis! Er, who the H is Sri Satguru Ram Singh?
(Of course, I'm being sarcastic.) peacesignkaur
Ambarsaria is Sarcastic too below peacesign
Tie a white turban 90 degrees off, start lighting a Jyot and start paying for the light/enlightenment one way or another!
Sat Sri Akal.
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BhagatSingh
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Aman Singh ji,
It is self-explanatory.
Key Tuk: They are worth nothing without an iota of the Grace of the Lord. 1.21.
Guru Gobind Singh ji is not saying to not explore things. He is saying none of what you find on your exploration is worth it without Grace, Kirpa.
It is self-explanatory.
Key Tuk: They are worth nothing without an iota of the Grace of the Lord. 1.21.
Guru Gobind Singh ji is not saying to not explore things. He is saying none of what you find on your exploration is worth it without Grace, Kirpa.
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Veer Bhagat Singh ji what are the possible signs of the Grace of of the Lord? Is the birth as a human being not grace enough with rest left up to the human being to use the grace wisely?
Any thoughts!
Sat Sri Akal.
BhagatSingh
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Signs of Grace: When one understands and worships the Truth and starts to be the Truth then one has received Grace.
Yes birth as a human being is graceful, only if the human being is blessed with Grace in his lifetime. "use the grace wisely" comes from Grace. In other words, if the human being does not develop wisdom and other virtues (a high moral character) during his lifetime, if he runs after pleasures of objects and activities and does not look into the nature of his desire, if further he does not see the Truth and does not look into it, if he does not worship the Truth (all of which entail, in your words, "use the grace wisely") then he is not blessed with Grace at all.
Yes birth as a human being is graceful, only if the human being is blessed with Grace in his lifetime. "use the grace wisely" comes from Grace. In other words, if the human being does not develop wisdom and other virtues (a high moral character) during his lifetime, if he runs after pleasures of objects and activities and does not look into the nature of his desire, if further he does not see the Truth and does not look into it, if he does not worship the Truth (all of which entail, in your words, "use the grace wisely") then he is not blessed with Grace at all.
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Bhagat Singh ji for me "Grace is a like a bucket of unlimited water available freely". Whether one drinks from it, how much or not at all is part of being human and creator really can not be caring too much about it. As the saying goes, "You can take a horse to water, but you cannot make him (sorry for sexist connotation of a male horse) drink".
So grace is always there and available but its realization is to each of us.
Sat Sri Akal.
So grace is always there and available but its realization is to each of us.
Sat Sri Akal.
BhagatSingh
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Ambarsaria ji,
Your horse analogy is a very good one. "You can take a horse to water, but you cannot make her (connotation now balanced) drink".
I would say the bucket of water is wisdom. Whether one drinks from it or not depends on the Grace factor. When one receives God's Grace, one drinks from the bucket of wisdom.
Your horse analogy is a very good one. "You can take a horse to water, but you cannot make her (connotation now balanced) drink".
I would say the bucket of water is wisdom. Whether one drinks from it or not depends on the Grace factor. When one receives God's Grace, one drinks from the bucket of wisdom.
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Bhagat Singh Veer ji I kind of disagree with your last sentence. My understanding would be the following,
When one realizes God's Grace, one drinks from the bucket of wisdom.
For me God/creator's grace is always there for all, our part in realizing so is the proverbial "Missing Link". God/creator is not in the business of rationing, hours of operation to give so we may receive, pretty benevolent and free wheeling. It is us who try to put the genie in a bottle with labels of conditions, dosage, when and hows, etc.
Sat Sri Akal.
BhagatSingh
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It's the same thing.
However, in the Sikh tradition, we say "God's act of Grace" (ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੇ) not "realizing God's Grace".
E.g.
ਪੰਨਾ 28, ਸਤਰ 11
ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਜਿਸ ਨਉ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੇ ਰਜਾਇ ॥੩॥
हरि हरि नामु धिआईऐ जिस नउ किरपा करे रजाइ ॥३॥
Har har nām ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai jis na▫o kirpā kare rajā▫e. ||3||
By His Will He grants His Grace; those who are so blessed, meditate on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. ||3||
ਮਃ 3 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
Cheers
However, in the Sikh tradition, we say "God's act of Grace" (ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੇ) not "realizing God's Grace".
E.g.
ਪੰਨਾ 28, ਸਤਰ 11
ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਜਿਸ ਨਉ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੇ ਰਜਾਇ ॥੩॥
हरि हरि नामु धिआईऐ जिस नउ किरपा करे रजाइ ॥३॥
Har har nām ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai jis na▫o kirpā kare rajā▫e. ||3||
By His Will He grants His Grace; those who are so blessed, meditate on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. ||3||
ਮਃ 3 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
Cheers
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Veer in philosophical thought I am not bound by traditional approaches. Of course I understand the humility associated with what you quoted and I am respectful of it as much as the next guy/gal (bloody political correctness!:sippingcoffeemunda
.
Sat Sri Akal.
.Sat Sri Akal.
BhagatSingh
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Ambarsaria ji,
It's not something that should limit you. You may think of it like so. That which causes a person to realize the grace (which you say is already there) is God granting his grace. You are using the word grace for what comes after grace. Whereas, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji uses the word grace for the shift in the mind which causes the mind to turn towards the thing you call grace. Essentially it is the same.
Remember, the God in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a personal one and does look after people. He is the Omnipotent God who knows of our troubles. ਸਰਬ ਕਲਾ ਭਰਪੂਰ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਾਨਨਹਾਰ - 282. Thus he also Grants Grace in the way a personal God does.
If you don't relate to God like this that is fine. Just know that is how our Gurus did. Their language reflects that. But once you come to know what they are talking about you need not use the same language.
It's not something that should limit you. You may think of it like so. That which causes a person to realize the grace (which you say is already there) is God granting his grace. You are using the word grace for what comes after grace. Whereas, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji uses the word grace for the shift in the mind which causes the mind to turn towards the thing you call grace. Essentially it is the same.
Remember, the God in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a personal one and does look after people. He is the Omnipotent God who knows of our troubles. ਸਰਬ ਕਲਾ ਭਰਪੂਰ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਾਨਨਹਾਰ - 282. Thus he also Grants Grace in the way a personal God does.
If you don't relate to God like this that is fine. Just know that is how our Gurus did. Their language reflects that. But once you come to know what they are talking about you need not use the same language.
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Veer Bhagat Singh ji 10-04.
Now returning to the topic of Jyot. I would have thought that the carbon soot released by Jyot will help purified air. I know Carbon filters are used in all kind of odor as well as contaminant reduction applications. What you think?
This in itself could prove the utility of Jyots as long as it is clarified and explained as such.
Sat Sri Akal.
Now returning to the topic of Jyot. I would have thought that the carbon soot released by Jyot will help purified air. I know Carbon filters are used in all kind of odor as well as contaminant reduction applications. What you think?
This in itself could prove the utility of Jyots as long as it is clarified and explained as such.
Sat Sri Akal.
BhagatSingh
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Ambarsaria ji,
I think carbon filters are not the same as carbon compounds released from burning clarified butter.
Now I am actually not interested in the health benefits as much. I am more interested in psychological and spiritual benefits, and I am more interested in the tradition itself. As you know traditions are very important e.g. Tying a turban is a tradition, and a very important one. A turban serves little in terms of utility (protects from heat and cold but so does a cap, looks cool and different) but it's importance becomes crystal clear because of the tradition behind it! Traditions are also valuable as they carry with them the wisdom of the past. If we look into the traditions, then we can see the wisdom. We should not be quick to break away from traditions without careful thought and respect. By respecting traditions as adults we teach newer generations to respect the system we set up to guide them.
Now I have already talked about the psychological and spiritual value. It is important to interact with nature. Not nature through some technological barrier (e.g. heating/cooling systems, artificial light) but nature as it is of it's own accord. Nature is energy, nature is vitality, nature is freedom. It is important to have a lived experience of nature by touching, smelling, seeing, hearing, interacting in other ways. Why is interacting with nature important? Gyani ji and I have already talked about how when we look into ourselves, there is a shift and we find that we are nature. Similarly, when we look deeply into nature, when we attentively interact with it through our 5 senses, we find nature is us. (These shifts in thought are uncommon but do happen). Agni then becomes agni dev, agni as a divine man! Those who do not know agni through their five senses and those who do not know agni as themselves, do not know agni dev. Similar to how we can say that those who do not know the guru, do not know gurudev.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਨਮਸਕਰਾ ॥੧॥
गुरदेव सतिगुरु पारब्रहमु परमेसरु गुरदेव नानक हरि नमसकरा ॥१॥
Gurḏev saṯgur pārbarahm parmesar gurḏev Nānak har namaskarā. ||1||
The Divine Guru is the True Guru, the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord; Nanak bows in humble reverence to the Lord, the Divine Guru. ||1||
pg 250
One might think it is ridiculous for Guru Arjan Dev ji to suggest such a thing that guru is ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ, the Ultimate Reality. However, I think that Guru Arjan Dev ji has looked deeply into guru and gurbani and found the Ultimate Reality through it. Guru and Gurbani are just forms. Clearly, we should be concerned with the painter not the painting as Bhagat Kabir says. But it is through the forms we find the formless. It is through the painting that we come to know the painter. The painter is a painter because of the painting.
Enough rambling. Cheers
I think carbon filters are not the same as carbon compounds released from burning clarified butter.
Now I am actually not interested in the health benefits as much. I am more interested in psychological and spiritual benefits, and I am more interested in the tradition itself. As you know traditions are very important e.g. Tying a turban is a tradition, and a very important one. A turban serves little in terms of utility (protects from heat and cold but so does a cap, looks cool and different) but it's importance becomes crystal clear because of the tradition behind it! Traditions are also valuable as they carry with them the wisdom of the past. If we look into the traditions, then we can see the wisdom. We should not be quick to break away from traditions without careful thought and respect. By respecting traditions as adults we teach newer generations to respect the system we set up to guide them.
Now I have already talked about the psychological and spiritual value. It is important to interact with nature. Not nature through some technological barrier (e.g. heating/cooling systems, artificial light) but nature as it is of it's own accord. Nature is energy, nature is vitality, nature is freedom. It is important to have a lived experience of nature by touching, smelling, seeing, hearing, interacting in other ways. Why is interacting with nature important? Gyani ji and I have already talked about how when we look into ourselves, there is a shift and we find that we are nature. Similarly, when we look deeply into nature, when we attentively interact with it through our 5 senses, we find nature is us. (These shifts in thought are uncommon but do happen). Agni then becomes agni dev, agni as a divine man! Those who do not know agni through their five senses and those who do not know agni as themselves, do not know agni dev. Similar to how we can say that those who do not know the guru, do not know gurudev.
ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਨਮਸਕਰਾ ॥੧॥
गुरदेव सतिगुरु पारब्रहमु परमेसरु गुरदेव नानक हरि नमसकरा ॥१॥
Gurḏev saṯgur pārbarahm parmesar gurḏev Nānak har namaskarā. ||1||
The Divine Guru is the True Guru, the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord; Nanak bows in humble reverence to the Lord, the Divine Guru. ||1||
pg 250
One might think it is ridiculous for Guru Arjan Dev ji to suggest such a thing that guru is ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ, the Ultimate Reality. However, I think that Guru Arjan Dev ji has looked deeply into guru and gurbani and found the Ultimate Reality through it. Guru and Gurbani are just forms. Clearly, we should be concerned with the painter not the painting as Bhagat Kabir says. But it is through the forms we find the formless. It is through the painting that we come to know the painter. The painter is a painter because of the painting.
Enough rambling. Cheers
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Veer Bhagat Singh ji no issue in what you cite as follows,
guru is ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ---- one of the manifestations or names given to Creator in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (metaphorically to talk to people who heard of Hindu Brahma)
Universe is ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ ---- Creation
Sat Sri Akal.
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BhagatSingh
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Ambarsaria ji,
Brahm is Brahman, the Ultimate Reality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman
On a side note: Brahma and Shiv (and their incarnations) are never used to refer to the Ultimate Reality in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. However, Vishnu and his incarnations (particularly Krishna) are. E.g. Hari, Krishna, Ram, Narayan, Chatrbhuj, Mohan, Gopal, Govind, etc.
Brahm is Brahman, the Ultimate Reality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman
On a side note: Brahma and Shiv (and their incarnations) are never used to refer to the Ultimate Reality in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. However, Vishnu and his incarnations (particularly Krishna) are. E.g. Hari, Krishna, Ram, Narayan, Chatrbhuj, Mohan, Gopal, Govind, etc.
- Dec 21, 2010
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May be may be not
<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#BABAC7"><tr bgcolor="#BABAC7"><td> ਤੂੰ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬੇਅੰਤੁ ਬੇਅੰਤੁ ਜੀ ਤੇਰੇ ਕਿਆ ਗੁਣ ਆਖਿ ਵਖਾਣਾ ॥
तूं पारब्रहमु बेअंतु बेअंतु जी तेरे किआ गुण आखि वखाणा ॥
Ŧūʼn pārbarahm be▫anṯ be▫anṯ jī ṯere ki▫ā guṇ ākẖ vakẖāṇā.
You are the Supreme Lord God, Limitless and Infinite. What Virtues of Yours can I speak of and describe?
</td></tr></tr></tbody></table>
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=11&punjabi=t&id=480#l480
I am not questioning translation without agreeing but just citing.
Sat Sri Akal.
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BhagatSingh
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What about it?
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