Rajinder Singh Arshi veer ji..good to hear from you and the light banter taken in the spirit its given Ji..and yes i do remember the Goglas....very very rarely seen these days..(too many diabetics around ha ha)..Thank you Ji.
Karmee Aavai Kaprhaa Nadree Mokh Du-aar
What does Gurbani say about 'Nijhghar'' ?
Does waheguru emanate from there, or do you have to make the effort ?
Above, you have parroted the word 'parroting' yourself twice in this thread !
What is with all the poking and when did anyone say anything about parroting ?
When I quoted and referred to, 'nanak nadree payeea, kudee kudai thees - gurmat way is only by exploring the treasure that we can be one with gurbani and not parroting, thus 'nadree' stands for tat gian - the essence. This tuk was in response to prevalent belief of parroting in stanza 32.
Further, gurbani questions, 'ਏ ਸਰੀਰਾ ਮੇਰਿਆ ਇਸੁ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਆਇ ਕੈ ਕਿਆ ਤੁਧੁ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥ - God is all over except in the manh so what 'karam' grace have you earned, to enshrine His wisdom in manh. In the end gurbani says, 'ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ with sach da gian now God attributes are settled in manh. I didn't say waheguru emanates from nijhghar but his attributes,
best regards
aristotle
SPNer
It would be better to post the full Shabad rather than arguing on single tuks which lead us nowhere and also confuse the others forum members.
Thank You.
Thank You.
Very true Gyani ji – we Punjabis do have a sweet tooth.
Actually goglas are much healthier than the modern day sweets. I checked with my wife and she tell me these are sweetened with gurr (jaggery) and spiced with fennel seeds (Foeniculum vulgare) for digestion purposes.
I was in Jallandhar a couple of years ago and had to fight my way to get one kg of laddoos. This is no exaggeration, the shop was so popular that despite about a dozen salesmen I was unable to get any attention. I almost gave up, but on the way out I caught the eye of a kind salesman who sensed my plight. To my delight, he, like a magician, produced a kg of laddoos from under his counter, and smiled saying “I keep these in reserve for gentlemen like you”.
There were half a dozen types of laddoos and multiple types of barfis etc. People were buying these in ‘bulk’. I could not resist asking a larger than life gentleman why Punjabis eat so much mithiaee despite the risk of diabetes. He smiled broadly, adding “who cares” – typical ‘sanoo ki’ attitude.
Best regards jio.
Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’
PS: Apologies to admin for digressing.
In the olden days, people used to consume desi ghee(butter fat), fried stuff, Mithais which are mostly milk/flour based but also used to eat lots of legumes, vegetables, fresh non processed food, go for long walks and many more things to keep themselves fit quite unknowingly what fitness fad meant like it is today. It was their way of life. There was nothing called obesity then although some were overweight for sure
The recent survey about the obesity factor in the developing countries is staggering. It is due to the processed food and the fast food outlets like KFC, MacDonald’s and Dominoes etc. etc.
Many Hindus and also Sikhs who go to the pilgrimages in the mountain die during their trips and many Hindus are too big to walk through the cave holes to get to the temples as they used to.
The verse quoted by Sahni ji-Japjisahib04 about Body-ਏ ਸਰੀਰਾ ਮੇਰਿਆ ਇਸੁ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਆਇ ਕੈ ਕਿਆ ਤੁਧੁ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥ The is from Anand penned by our 3rd Guru and yes, to understand its full context, all complete verses regarding our body, which are in Anand should be posted so they can be discussed, understood and hopefully practiced; otherwise it is all futile and ends to naught.
Anand Sahib is a true workout manual of body, mind and soul. It is the amalgam and much more than Jane Fonda’s VHS tapes, to thigh master, to yoga and to cross training, the today’s fad.
Hemkunt has nothing to do with Sikhi but a charade concocted by the so called Sikh scholars of yesteryears who showed their arrogance laced with me-ism by claiming something so egregious and totally contrary to the Sikh values bestowed to us from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru . There are many threads here about it here.
That is why Sikhi is always anew, the daily practice of learning, unlearning and relearning.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
The recent survey about the obesity factor in the developing countries is staggering. It is due to the processed food and the fast food outlets like KFC, MacDonald’s and Dominoes etc. etc.
Many Hindus and also Sikhs who go to the pilgrimages in the mountain die during their trips and many Hindus are too big to walk through the cave holes to get to the temples as they used to.
The verse quoted by Sahni ji-Japjisahib04 about Body-ਏ ਸਰੀਰਾ ਮੇਰਿਆ ਇਸੁ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਆਇ ਕੈ ਕਿਆ ਤੁਧੁ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥ The is from Anand penned by our 3rd Guru and yes, to understand its full context, all complete verses regarding our body, which are in Anand should be posted so they can be discussed, understood and hopefully practiced; otherwise it is all futile and ends to naught.
Anand Sahib is a true workout manual of body, mind and soul. It is the amalgam and much more than Jane Fonda’s VHS tapes, to thigh master, to yoga and to cross training, the today’s fad.
Hemkunt has nothing to do with Sikhi but a charade concocted by the so called Sikh scholars of yesteryears who showed their arrogance laced with me-ism by claiming something so egregious and totally contrary to the Sikh values bestowed to us from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru . There are many threads here about it here.
That is why Sikhi is always anew, the daily practice of learning, unlearning and relearning.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
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Tejwant ji
It’s nice to share both spiritual and lighter aspects of our lives.
The diet, as you described above, was simple and healthy – there was no electricity. no radio, TV, cookers or microwaves. I can still remember picking berries, going to the village well, playing in the fields, drinking fresh sugarcane juice. Life was so, so simple. Reminds me of a poem (I think by Mohan Singh ji) – saadey khooh tey vasda rabb ji (God resides at our village well).
Similar lifestyle continued in Nairobi, Kenya in the fifties and the best part of the sixties. Bad dietary habits kicked off in London and haven’t ever quite recovered
Anand Sahib is part of my daily spiritual diet – food for soul, if I may call it. The reference to body is made quite early in the sixth pauree (sachee livai bin deh nimaani - ਸਾਚੀ ਲਿਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੇਹ ਨਿਮਾਣੀ) – mann (mind), jee (inner conscious), eyes and ears are all addressed in separate stanzas, as you are well aware – just beautiful, beyond words.
Thanks for taking me back in time and also contemplate Anand Sahib.
Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’
It’s nice to share both spiritual and lighter aspects of our lives.
Agree absolutely. I grew up in a village in Punjab in the 1940s and did my first thee jamaats (standards) there in an open air school besides a pond. We wrote on wooden tablets and slates – washed these in the pond. Yes, we did have books and paper but the latter was used sparingly. My mother would each night make me read works of Bhai Vir Singh ji (e.g. his famous book Sundri) and Gurbani steeks. I am eternally grateful to her.
The diet, as you described above, was simple and healthy – there was no electricity. no radio, TV, cookers or microwaves. I can still remember picking berries, going to the village well, playing in the fields, drinking fresh sugarcane juice. Life was so, so simple. Reminds me of a poem (I think by Mohan Singh ji) – saadey khooh tey vasda rabb ji (God resides at our village well).
Similar lifestyle continued in Nairobi, Kenya in the fifties and the best part of the sixties. Bad dietary habits kicked off in London and haven’t ever quite recovered
Anand Sahib is part of my daily spiritual diet – food for soul, if I may call it. The reference to body is made quite early in the sixth pauree (sachee livai bin deh nimaani - ਸਾਚੀ ਲਿਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੇਹ ਨਿਮਾਣੀ) – mann (mind), jee (inner conscious), eyes and ears are all addressed in separate stanzas, as you are well aware – just beautiful, beyond words.
Thanks for taking me back in time and also contemplate Anand Sahib.
Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’
Yes Anand Sahib is a true workout manual of body, mind and soul. I feel most of interpretation of anand sahib on internet lack the essence and it needs further work. Like
ਜੈਸੀ ਅਗਨਿ ਉਦਰ ਮਹਿ ਤੈਸੀ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਮਾਇਆ ॥
As is the fire within the womb, so is Maya outside.
ਮਾਇਆ ਅਗਨਿ ਸਭ ਇਕੋ ਜੇਹੀ ਕਰਤੈ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥
The fire of Maya is one and the same; the Creator has staged this play.
ਜਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਣਾ ਤਾ ਜੰਮਿਆ ਪਰਵਾਰਿ ਭਲਾ ਭਾਇਆ ॥
According to His Will, the child is born, and the family is very pleased.
ਲਿਵ ਛੁੜਕੀ ਲਗੀ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਅਮਰੁ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ ॥
Love for the Lord wears off, and the child becomes attached to desires; the script of Maya runs its course.
ਏਹ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਉਪਜੈ ਭਾਉ ਦੂਜਾ ਲਾਇਆ ॥
This is Maya, by which the Lord is forgotten; emotional attachment and love of duality well up.
ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਿਨਾ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਤਿਨੀ ਵਿਚੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੨੯॥
Says Nanak, by Guru's Grace, those who enshrine love for the Lord find Him, in the midst of Maya. ||29||
In first line Guru sahib compares 'agan with 'maya'. As is the warmness(temperature) of fire within the womb for perfect growth of baby, so is Maya outside for creativity and for our comfort. The Creator (khail rachaiya) has staged this system – created the laws of nature. The moment we understand this system, 'ਪਰਵਾਰਿ ਭਲਾ ਭਾਇਆ ॥ - mind is transformed and elevated family of indray and gian indray is achieved. But if we ignore this system, 'ਲਿਵ ਛੁੜਕੀ ਲਗੀ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਅਮਰੁ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ ॥ then (churail rupi) lagi trishna – fire of desires puts you into rat race or script of maya runs its course (thus guru sahib is clearly guiding that root cause of trishna is ignoring the laws of nature). Thus pankti is not referring to, 'ਮਾਤ ਗਰਭ ਮਹਿ ਆਪਨ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਦੇ ਤਹ ਤੁਮ ਰਾਖਨਹਾਰੇ ॥ as by parroting baby is perserved into womb but following laws of nature. And 'maya' is not condemned but is accepted as His true creation provided it is used gracefully, intelligentilly, judicially otherwise, 'ਏਹ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਉਪਜੈ ਭਾਉ ਦੂਜਾ ਲਾਇਆ ॥ love of duality wells up, once this system is ignored. And guru sahib is not referring to 'parvar' as immediate family members but elevated family of indray and gian indray.
ਜੈਸੀ ਅਗਨਿ ਉਦਰ ਮਹਿ ਤੈਸੀ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਮਾਇਆ ॥
As is the fire within the womb, so is Maya outside.
ਮਾਇਆ ਅਗਨਿ ਸਭ ਇਕੋ ਜੇਹੀ ਕਰਤੈ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥
The fire of Maya is one and the same; the Creator has staged this play.
ਜਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਣਾ ਤਾ ਜੰਮਿਆ ਪਰਵਾਰਿ ਭਲਾ ਭਾਇਆ ॥
According to His Will, the child is born, and the family is very pleased.
ਲਿਵ ਛੁੜਕੀ ਲਗੀ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਅਮਰੁ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ ॥
Love for the Lord wears off, and the child becomes attached to desires; the script of Maya runs its course.
ਏਹ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਉਪਜੈ ਭਾਉ ਦੂਜਾ ਲਾਇਆ ॥
This is Maya, by which the Lord is forgotten; emotional attachment and love of duality well up.
ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਿਨਾ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਤਿਨੀ ਵਿਚੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੨੯॥
Says Nanak, by Guru's Grace, those who enshrine love for the Lord find Him, in the midst of Maya. ||29||
In first line Guru sahib compares 'agan with 'maya'. As is the warmness(temperature) of fire within the womb for perfect growth of baby, so is Maya outside for creativity and for our comfort. The Creator (khail rachaiya) has staged this system – created the laws of nature. The moment we understand this system, 'ਪਰਵਾਰਿ ਭਲਾ ਭਾਇਆ ॥ - mind is transformed and elevated family of indray and gian indray is achieved. But if we ignore this system, 'ਲਿਵ ਛੁੜਕੀ ਲਗੀ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਅਮਰੁ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ ॥ then (churail rupi) lagi trishna – fire of desires puts you into rat race or script of maya runs its course (thus guru sahib is clearly guiding that root cause of trishna is ignoring the laws of nature). Thus pankti is not referring to, 'ਮਾਤ ਗਰਭ ਮਹਿ ਆਪਨ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਦੇ ਤਹ ਤੁਮ ਰਾਖਨਹਾਰੇ ॥ as by parroting baby is perserved into womb but following laws of nature. And 'maya' is not condemned but is accepted as His true creation provided it is used gracefully, intelligentilly, judicially otherwise, 'ਏਹ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਉਪਜੈ ਭਾਉ ਦੂਜਾ ਲਾਇਆ ॥ love of duality wells up, once this system is ignored. And guru sahib is not referring to 'parvar' as immediate family members but elevated family of indray and gian indray.
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Guru Nanak ji brought Brand NEW GYAAN...His HIGHWAY to The CREATOR...is Brand NEW.
Unfortunately, people and many Sikhs included insist on bringing their Baggage/old gaddeh/bullock carts/broken down bicycles..etc etc...and travel this Brand New Super Speed Highway !!!
To get the actual and real benefit of the Super speed Highway we need to ONLY Use the Vehicle of GURBANI..and discard all those old baggage..the vedas/Puransa/Mahabharts/Ramaynas...... the Karmas and Good acts/ Bad acts....paaps, punns, cows that grant wishes, rivers and wells that wash away sins, parrotting of mantras, jantars, yogic positions, donations, daans, seraaps, varr...etc etc etc etc...DISCARD age old "definitions" of VOCABULARY.."karam/karma/carnations/reincarnations/AVTAARS/rebirths...etc etc etc etc...and LOOK at the BRAND NEW DEFINITIONS GURU NANAK ji provides.....Just as a Modern High Tech Engine cannot use ordinary Kerosene in the combustion chamber and Coconut oil in in place of the Engine Oils....a SIKH cannot go on using these "words" to mean what they mean in the Vedas context..Puranas context ...GURU NANAK JI has NOT Copy Pasted..He has not Plagiriased..he has not borrowed....HE IS BRAND NEW....please dont treat HIM as "new wine" in old bottle...The Wine is New, the Bottle is NEW (yes the glass in not RECYCLED)....
The GRAMMAR of GURBANI is BRAND NEW..hence the Vocabualry used in Gurbani has to be seen in the way that it FITS the GURANI Grammar..not what it means in the Vedas,,Olden Hindu Religious Traditions.The "words" used may LOOK SIMILAR...but they DONT MEAN the SAME...no way........otherwise Guru nanak Ji "just rewriting a simplified version of the oh..so..difficult..hard to understand..sanskrit vedas.." as SWAMI DYANAND alleged......NO....NO....NO..GURU NANAK Ji is not recycling nor is He simplifying the vedas etc...He is bringing the Most Modern GYAAN of GURBANI...
Parotting is one of the worst EVILS that Sikhs have carried back from the GARBAGE DUMP that Guru NANAK ji threw it on.....SIKHS just Dont seem to be able to live without parotting....the Nitnem banis, the akhand paaths, the sehaj paaths, parotting parotting parotting...jantars mantars,..when this was RUBBISH that Guru Ji EXPELLED from OUR PRESENT lives to make room for ACTION....KARAM while LIVING..in place of..."karma" karams..allegedly committed in some earlier life/lives...>>>>
Unfortunately, people and many Sikhs included insist on bringing their Baggage/old gaddeh/bullock carts/broken down bicycles..etc etc...and travel this Brand New Super Speed Highway !!!
To get the actual and real benefit of the Super speed Highway we need to ONLY Use the Vehicle of GURBANI..and discard all those old baggage..the vedas/Puransa/Mahabharts/Ramaynas...... the Karmas and Good acts/ Bad acts....paaps, punns, cows that grant wishes, rivers and wells that wash away sins, parrotting of mantras, jantars, yogic positions, donations, daans, seraaps, varr...etc etc etc etc...DISCARD age old "definitions" of VOCABULARY.."karam/karma/carnations/reincarnations/AVTAARS/rebirths...etc etc etc etc...and LOOK at the BRAND NEW DEFINITIONS GURU NANAK ji provides.....Just as a Modern High Tech Engine cannot use ordinary Kerosene in the combustion chamber and Coconut oil in in place of the Engine Oils....a SIKH cannot go on using these "words" to mean what they mean in the Vedas context..Puranas context ...GURU NANAK JI has NOT Copy Pasted..He has not Plagiriased..he has not borrowed....HE IS BRAND NEW....please dont treat HIM as "new wine" in old bottle...The Wine is New, the Bottle is NEW (yes the glass in not RECYCLED)....
The GRAMMAR of GURBANI is BRAND NEW..hence the Vocabualry used in Gurbani has to be seen in the way that it FITS the GURANI Grammar..not what it means in the Vedas,,Olden Hindu Religious Traditions.The "words" used may LOOK SIMILAR...but they DONT MEAN the SAME...no way........otherwise Guru nanak Ji "just rewriting a simplified version of the oh..so..difficult..hard to understand..sanskrit vedas.." as SWAMI DYANAND alleged......NO....NO....NO..GURU NANAK Ji is not recycling nor is He simplifying the vedas etc...He is bringing the Most Modern GYAAN of GURBANI...
Parotting is one of the worst EVILS that Sikhs have carried back from the GARBAGE DUMP that Guru NANAK ji threw it on.....SIKHS just Dont seem to be able to live without parotting....the Nitnem banis, the akhand paaths, the sehaj paaths, parotting parotting parotting...jantars mantars,..when this was RUBBISH that Guru Ji EXPELLED from OUR PRESENT lives to make room for ACTION....KARAM while LIVING..in place of..."karma" karams..allegedly committed in some earlier life/lives...>>>>
Gyani ji,
Guru Fateh.
No one could have said it better. The subtleties of Gurbani that create big distinctions between the Vedas, Puranas etc. etc. can only be grasped provided we stop being parrots of Gurbani but its students which is the duty of each of us.
The name Sikh does mean something more important than the outer regalia that anyone can wear to fool the ignorant blind sheep and carry them to the cliff of ignorance.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Guru Fateh.
No one could have said it better. The subtleties of Gurbani that create big distinctions between the Vedas, Puranas etc. etc. can only be grasped provided we stop being parrots of Gurbani but its students which is the duty of each of us.
The name Sikh does mean something more important than the outer regalia that anyone can wear to fool the ignorant blind sheep and carry them to the cliff of ignorance.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Abneet
SPNer
- Apr 7, 2013
- 281
- 312
Could you explain a little more further on how Guru Nanak went against parroting of mantras, banis, and simran?
aristotle
SPNer
I think parroting and simran of Banis are two different things.
Gyaniji pointed towards blindly 'chanting' the Banis without even knowing their subject matter, as many of the people who follow their Nitmen do. Understanding the Banis and doing their paath wouldn't be parroting.
aristotle
SPNer
Some food for thought...
ਪਉੜੀ ॥
Pauree:
ਕੇਤੇ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਾਣ ਕਹਿ ਕਹਿ ਜਾਵਣਾ ॥
Some speak and expound, and while speaking and lecturing, they pass away.
ਵੇਦ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਣ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥
The Vedas speak and expound on the Lord, but they do not know His limits.
ਪੜਿਐ ਨਾਹੀ ਭੇਦੁ ਬੁਝਿਐ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥
Not by studying, but through understanding, is the Lord's Mystery revealed.
ਖਟੁ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੈ ਭੇਖਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਵਣਾ ॥
There are six pathways in the Shaastras, but how rare are those who merge in the True Lord through them.
ਸਚਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਅਲਖੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣਾ ॥
The True Lord is Unknowable; through the Word of His Shabad, we are embellished.
ਮੰਨੇ ਨਾਉ ਬਿਸੰਖ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥
One who believes in the Name of the Infinite Lord, attains the Court of the Lord.
ਖਾਲਕ ਕਉ ਆਦੇਸੁ ਢਾਢੀ ਗਾਵਣਾ ॥
I humbly bow to the Creator Lord; I am a minstrel singing His Praises.
ਨਾਨਕ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਏਕੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਵਣਾ ॥੨੧॥
Nanak enshrines the Lord within his mind. He is the One, throughout the ages. ||21||
(Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, Page 148)
ਪਉੜੀ ॥
Pauree:
ਕੇਤੇ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਾਣ ਕਹਿ ਕਹਿ ਜਾਵਣਾ ॥
Some speak and expound, and while speaking and lecturing, they pass away.
ਵੇਦ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਣ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥
The Vedas speak and expound on the Lord, but they do not know His limits.
ਪੜਿਐ ਨਾਹੀ ਭੇਦੁ ਬੁਝਿਐ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥
Not by studying, but through understanding, is the Lord's Mystery revealed.
ਖਟੁ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੈ ਭੇਖਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਵਣਾ ॥
There are six pathways in the Shaastras, but how rare are those who merge in the True Lord through them.
ਸਚਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਅਲਖੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣਾ ॥
The True Lord is Unknowable; through the Word of His Shabad, we are embellished.
ਮੰਨੇ ਨਾਉ ਬਿਸੰਖ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥
One who believes in the Name of the Infinite Lord, attains the Court of the Lord.
ਖਾਲਕ ਕਉ ਆਦੇਸੁ ਢਾਢੀ ਗਾਵਣਾ ॥
I humbly bow to the Creator Lord; I am a minstrel singing His Praises.
ਨਾਨਕ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਏਕੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਵਣਾ ॥੨੧॥
Nanak enshrines the Lord within his mind. He is the One, throughout the ages. ||21||
(Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, Page 148)
aristotle
SPNer
ਇਹ ਗਾਧੀ ਬਣੀ ਨਵਾਰੀ
ਅੱਗੇ ਵਗਦਾ ਬਲਦ ਹਜ਼ਾਰੀ
ਕਰ ਇਸ ਉਤੇ ਅਸਵਾਰੀ
ਭੁੱਲ ਜਾਵਣ ਦੋਵੇਂ ਜੱਗ ਨੀ
ਸਾਡੇ ਖੂਹ ਤੇ ਵੱਸਦਾ ਰੱਬ ਨੀ
.
.
ਮੈਂ ਪੱਧਰੇ ਮੰਜਾ ਡਾਹਵਾਂ
ਕਰ ਨਿਸਲੀਆਂ ਪੈ ਜਾਵਾਂ
ਝੁਲ ਪੈਣ ਪੁਰੇ ਦੀਆਂ ’ਵਾਵਾਂ
ਤੇ ਅੱਖ ਜਾਏ ਫਿਰ ਲੱਗ ਨੀ
ਸਾਡੇ ਖੂਹ ਤੇ ਵਸਦਾ ਰੱਬ ਨੀ
(ਖੂਹ ਦੀ ਗਾਧੀ ਉੱਤੇ - ਪ੍ਰੋ. ਮੋਹਨ ਸਿੰਘ)
:grinningsingh:
Literal interpretation above reveals guru sahib is under estimating the treasure of Veds or the six philosophies adopted and so on. This way we only create hatered and as such fetch enmnity and this is not the misson of guru sahib is, especially when focus of gurbani is on mind and how to be truthful. As Gyani jee rightly referred above that, 'The GRAMMAR of GURBANI is BRAND NEW..hence the Vocabualry used in Gurbani has to be seen in the way that it FITS the GURBANI Grammar..not what it means in the Vedas,,Olden Hindu Religious Traditions.The "words" used may LOOK SIMILAR...but they DONT MEAN the SAME. Therefore I suggest let us interpret gurbani with gurbani and interpret 'ved' as inner voice and 'khat darshan' as sensory organ, 'jug jug' not different ages but of present life - always, the understanding seems more logical and will create goodwill.
aristotle
SPNer
Throughout Gurbani, the words Vedas and Shastras are used symbolically. Vedas(ਵੇਦ) and Katebs(ਕਤੇਬ, Abrahamic books) symbolise theoretical religious knowledge, Shastras(ਸ਼ਾਸਤਰ) symbolise the cannon of rituals and worldly religious practices. There is no question of hatred. Its a matter of conveying the author's message to the audience in a sociocultural context they can understand.
Aristotle ji many thanks for confirming the author. In fact I was just going to post the same, after digging into my archives and pulling out a copy of ‘Saavey Pattar’, the title of Prof Mohan Singh’s book (1967 edition bought for a staggering sum of just over two rupees) dedicated to his wife Basant whose death, and subsequent grief, he says established him as a poet. In the same book he writes the following in his poem “Basant”:
Basant consoles the poet:
poonjh hanjhoo mere boli – “jo rab karda changee,
mohan ! kinj banda toon shaa-er
jo kar main na mardi.
She wiped my tears and said “whatever God does is for the best: Mohan how could you have become a poet if I had not died.”
I am not sure if this is available on the internet but you managed to produce the first and last stanzas Gurmukhi alphabet beautifully – thanks.
Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’
Let us try to understand Gurbani with an open mind or else logically we will be lost. Like can we go and enquire from brahma, narad, author of ved etc as is being instructed, 'ਪੂਛਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਨਾਰਦੈ ਬੇਦ ਬਿਆਸੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ or is their any need when gurbani tells us, 'ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ without introspection manh cannot be enlightened and then transformed, thus naturally these brahma, narad are no one but our indray gian indray. Guru Nanak had to start from where his audience was. The mythological concepts (Naad etc) and figures (Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, Krishna etc) were all well ingrained in the mind of those who were seeking spiritual guidance from guru sahib. Use of above vocubalry was essential for effective communication. i.e. why he opened up and clarified in Japjisahib:
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵੇਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਈ ॥
The Guru's Word is the Sound-current of the Naad; the Guru's Word is the Wisdom of the Vedas; the Guru's Word is all-pervading.
ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥
The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi.
For the spotless, truthful mind of oneness, divine message of nijhghar is naad and non-stop hearing and practicing is anhad naad. For him sach da gian is ved and further says its order pervades all over. For the manh imbibed in the divine court of nijghar, satguru is ishvar, the essence (tat-gian) is gorkah. In that state of mind whatever divine virtues emanates is brahma and in that process the descriminatory intellect transformed is (parbhati maey - bheebek budhi).
So in above two sentences he clarifies in fact our sensory organs are real bhrama, vishnu, sarsvati, parbhati maey and calls for introspection as real puja. I once again repeat as Gyani jee has said "words" used may LOOK SIMILAR...but they DONT MEAN the SAME. We can quote symbolically the religious text but not condemn or estimate and which I feel was not the mission of guru sahib. Therefore I suggest let us interpret gurbani with gurbani.
Sardar Gurpal Singh Khaira Chief Editor Sikh bulettin writes....
DIVINE REVELATION THE BASIS OF SIKH RELIGION[/FONT]
Interpretation of Gurbani of Sri Guru Granth Sahib (SGGS) had[/FONT]
been and continues to be influenced by the background and the[/FONT]
discipline the interpreter belonged to i.e. Vedantic, Islamic,[/FONT]
Christian, agnosticism and even the atheism. It is also affected by[/FONT]
the professional discipline of the interpreting scholar such as[/FONT]
science, philosophy, legal etc. However the interpreting scholars[/FONT]
lack spiritual background and knowledge and rely on analyzing the[/FONT]
words (Akhar) of Gurbani, a sort of playing gymnastics with[/FONT]
language to render their conclusions. They foray into Gurbani of[/FONT]
SGGS in search of words or lines in shabads to equivocate and[/FONT]
support their preconceived notions. Any meaningful discussion with[/FONT]
them is not possible. They use strident tones in their discussion to[/FONT]
prate absurdities with the greatest seriousness.[/FONT]
Then what is there to insure that the interpretations and conclusions[/FONT]
an interpreter with scientific background using western[/FONT]
methodology or principles of science will be accurate and better[/FONT]
than all others. For example until recently science told us that life[/FONT]
cannot exist below certain depth in the ocean. Recent discovery of[/FONT]
creatures living at depths far below that limit proves the scientific[/FONT]
conclusions can be wrong. In a recent TV interview a prominent[/FONT]
NASA physicist with lots of credits to his name said the laws of[/FONT]
physics as we know on earth may not be applicable elsewhere in the[/FONT]
vast Universe. Gurbani already tells us in the Japji Sahib that [/FONT]“no[/FONT]
matter how much anyone tries to explain and describe them, the[/FONT]
doings of the creator are incomprehensible”.[/FONT]
jy ko khY krY vIcwru[ krqy kY krxY nwhI sumwru]
(SGGS Page 3 Japji)[/FONT]
Je Ko kahai karai vichar, karte kai karnai nahi sumar.[/FONT]
Languages humans use to communicate with each other are not[/FONT]
sufficient even for the exalted and blessed souls to explain the Will[/FONT]
of God[/FONT]. Even Knowing God, I cannot describe Him; He cannot[/FONT]
be described in words. Gurbani Says;[/FONT]
jy hau jwxw AwKw nwhI khxw kQnu n jweI][/FONT]
(SGGS page 2 Japji)[/FONT]
Je hao jana akha nahi kahna kathan na jai.[/FONT]
Gurbani says through fifty two letters, the three worlds[/FONT]
and all things are described. [/FONT]But these letters shall[/FONT]
perish just like everything else in this world; they[/FONT]
cannot describe the unperishable.[/FONT]
ey AKr iKir jwihgy Eie AKr ien mih nwih][/FONT]
E Akhar khir jahige oe akhar in meh nahi.[/FONT]
Sikh Bulletin has been publishing articles by Dr.[/FONT]
Davinder Singh Chahal ji, a retired science professor[/FONT]
who has been expounding his Nanakian Phylosophy in[/FONT]
careful and often elaborate details which he claims he[/FONT]
arrived at using western scientific methodology in[/FONT]
interpreting Gurbani of SGGS. He has published the[/FONT]
English translation of Japji Sahib and a book titled[/FONT]
“Nanakian Philosophy, Basis for humanity”. We are[/FONT]
publishing chapter 25 titled “Nanakian Philosophy and[/FONT]
Science” of this book. Even though his labor and[/FONT]
persistent marketing is admirable his interpretation of[/FONT]
Gurbani has not achieved any acceptance. I am of the[/FONT]
opinion Dr. Chahal believes his explication conform to[/FONT]
the facts and strict requirements of a specific ideology[/FONT]
or logic or the known truth. However his firm scientific[/FONT]
belief that if you cannot see, touch, hear or feel[/FONT]
something it does not exist, has taken him away from[/FONT]
the spiritual and divine reality rendering his[/FONT]
interpretations inapt.[/FONT]
Gurbani is neither Philosophy nor Nanakian[/FONT]
(Charan Singh Ontario/Canada, an email)[/FONT]
Sikh religion is based on the premise that God Himself[/FONT]
revealed to Guru Nanak Dev Ji and endowed him with[/FONT]
divine knowledge (Gurmat Gian) for the benefit of[/FONT]
suffering humanity. Soul exists and the body is its[/FONT]
temporary abode. Death of body is not death of the[/FONT]
soul[/FONT]. Any interpretation of Gurbani of SGGS which[/FONT]
denies the absolute personality of loving God who is[/FONT]
involved in His creation and is also independent of it[/FONT]
is erroneous and misleading.[/FONT]
Thou the independent father, thou are with all and[/FONT]
without all.[/FONT]
sB hI miD siBh qy bwhir bymuhqwj bwpw]
(SGGS page 51 M 5)[/FONT]
Sabh hi madh sabheh te baher bemuhtaj bapa.[/FONT]
Nanakian Philosophy denies God’s personality and[/FONT]
expresses a tendency to identify God and Nature as[/FONT]
one. Because there is no God independent of Nature,[/FONT]
nothing can properly be termed sacred or holy. Despite[/FONT]
the clear and specific evidence in the SGGS it does not[/FONT]
accept Gurmat preached by the Sikh Gurus as divine[/FONT]
revelation. It is important to define the difference[/FONT]
between Revelation and Philosophy.[/FONT]
Revelation [/FONT](Webster’s Dictionary)[/FONT]
“Something that is revealed by God to man”, the[/FONT]
dictionary of Philosophy also defines Revelation as[/FONT]
“communication of Devine Will”.[/FONT]
Philosophy [/FONT](Webster’s Dictionary)[/FONT]
“A search for a general understanding of values and[/FONT]
reality by chiefly speculative rather than observational[/FONT]
means”. “The most general belief concepts and[/FONT]
attitude of an individual or group”.[/FONT]
Based on these definitions it is wrong to label[/FONT]
Gurmat as philosophy. It does not fit. There is[/FONT]
nothing speculative in the Gurbani of SGGS. To the[/FONT]
best of my knowledge it specifically details the[/FONT]
spiritual path for ascending to the divine reality.[/FONT]
Gurbani clearly states Guru Nanak Dev’s unique[/FONT]
spiritual experience as he was called to God’s presence[/FONT]
and blessed with HIS service.[/FONT]
hauo FwFI vykwr kwrY lwieAw………FwFI scY mhil[/FONT]
Ksim bulwieAw [/FONT](SGGS page 150 M:1)[/FONT]
hao dhadhi vekar karai laia……..[/FONT]
Dhadhi sachai mahal khasam bulaia[/FONT]
I the bard out of work, the Lord put me to his[/FONT]
service.......The Master summoned the minstrel to HIS[/FONT]
true court.[/FONT]
Bhai Gurdas has also given account of when Guru[/FONT]
Nanak Dev Ji ascended to the plane of truth and[/FONT]
appeared before the True One.[/FONT]
phlW bwby pwieAw bKS dr, ipCoN dy iPr Gwl[/FONT]
kumweI [/FONT](Bhai Gurdas Var 1 Stenza 24)[/FONT]
Pehlan babay paia bakhash dar pichho de phir Ghal[/FONT]
kumaee.[/FONT]
Thus the divine revelation, spiritual communication of[/FONT]
Guru Nanak Dev Ji is directly from God. The[/FONT]
knowledge and truth communicated through this[/FONT]
revelation is traceable to the divine and not the body[/FONT]
and mind of the Guru. The Guru ji says his role is that[/FONT]
of a mediator and not that of a moderator.[/FONT]
jYsI mY AwvY Ksm kI bwnI qYsVw krI igAwnu vy lwlo][/FONT]
(SGGS page 722 M:1)[/FONT]
jaisi mai avai khasam ki bani taisra kari gian ve lalo.[/FONT]
As the Word of the Lord comes to me, so do I utter, O[/FONT]
Lalo.[/FONT]
There are more references available in the Hymns of[/FONT]
the Gurus which tell us that the ultimate truth or Shabd[/FONT]
is communicated to the Gurus in direct communication[/FONT]
with God. According to SGGS (Guru) divine[/FONT]
manifestation is expressed in the concept of Joti. It is[/FONT]
the ascension of the seeker to God, not the descent of[/FONT]
God[/FONT]. “HE makes angels out of men, without delay”.[/FONT]
ijn mwxs qy dyvqy kIey krq nw lwgI vwr]
(SGGS page 462 M:1)[/FONT]
Jin manas te devate kie karat na lagi var.[/FONT]
Once a seeker ascends to the plane of truth the Gurbani[/FONT]
tells us he then does not go astray ([/FONT]nW auh mry nW Twgy
jwey) and after [/FONT]he gets Revelation he continues to stay[/FONT]
in tune with God.[/FONT]
Bgq sMig pRB gosit krq][/FONT]
Bhagat sang parabh gosat karat. (SGGS page 894 M:5)[/FONT]
The revelation in Islam and Jewish traditions is not[/FONT]
directly from God to man. It is through an angel to[/FONT]
Mohammad and from a burning bush to Moses[/FONT]
respectively. In Christianity it is word made flesh and[/FONT]
no direct communication from God. There is no[/FONT]
revelation in Hinduism as God descends to earth as[/FONT]
Avtar. It is Guru Nanak Dev Ji, the first prophet who[/FONT]
clearly states that divine spiritual revelation he received[/FONT]
was not dependent upon any source and that God[/FONT]
directly, without intercession, revealed Himself to him[/FONT]
and what he (Nanak) spoke was directly from God[/FONT]
Himself (SGGS page 722). [/FONT]Yet this so called[/FONT]
Nanakian Philosophy and its proponent scholars[/FONT]
accept revelation as basis of other major religions[/FONT]
but they deny divine revelation as the basis of Sikh[/FONT]
religion. I wonder what makes Mohammad and[/FONT]
Moses believable whose revelation was not direct[/FONT]
from God and is recorded from Hearsay several[/FONT]
centuries after their deaths but not Guru Nanak[/FONT]
Dev ji who left for us his own hand written[/FONT]
documentary evidence of divine spiritual revelation[/FONT]
to him.[/FONT]
Soul[/FONT]
According to Gurbani a long period of time evolved[/FONT]
after the creation of the universe for environment to[/FONT]
settle down. The known universe is sustained by[/FONT]
motion. The moons revolve around planets, the planets[/FONT]
revolve around the suns and the suns revolve around[/FONT]
other larger suns. We know now, even the galaxies are[/FONT]
on the move. [/FONT]Evolution is a reaction to constant[/FONT]
change that is universal throughout the universe[/FONT].[/FONT]
Every living organism came into existence within[/FONT]
God’s Will and is born with a fixed time clock for[/FONT]
staying alive that differs for everything. Thus all[/FONT]
creation including humans had to go through[/FONT]
evolutionto arrive at the present state of existence.[/FONT]
Nowhere in the Gurbani it says that God created the[/FONT]
world as we see it now.[/FONT]
Gurbani specifically explains in very clear terms that[/FONT]
the soul is granted human body as an opportunity to[/FONT]
connect with the Perm-soul and warns not to waste this[/FONT]
chance with pursuits which may thwart this goal. [/FONT]This[/FONT]
human body has been granted to you. This is your[/FONT]
chance to meet the Lord of the universe.[/FONT]
BeI prwpiq mwnuK dyhurIAw][/FONT]
goibMd imlx kI ieh qyrI brIAw][/FONT]
(SGGS page 12 M5)[/FONT]
Bhai prapat manukh dahuria,[/FONT]
Gobind milan ki ih teri baria.[/FONT]
Gurbani explains the God’s justice system using terms[/FONT]
as true court (sachi dergah), righteous judge (dharam[/FONT]
hadur), and true verdicts are rendered (othai sacho hi[/FONT]
sach nibrai), record of merits and demerits is read in[/FONT]
the presence of lord of dharama (changaia buraia[/FONT]
vachai dharam hadur). Verdict for souls with merits is[/FONT]
described as “receives honors in the true court”[/FONT]
(dargeh pavai mann), radiant face (mukh ujal). After[/FONT]
the soul leaves the body where does it goe? Gurbani[/FONT]
uses terms such as here and on the other side (halat,[/FONT]
palat), here and over there (aithai, othai), after life and[/FONT]
past life (agai, pashai) etc. Some of the terms used for[/FONT]
the soul are jind, jio, jinderia, and jia. Some of the[/FONT]
terms used for the body are pind, kaian, dehuria.[/FONT]
Migration of soul is explained as many births (bahut[/FONT]
janam), birth after birth (janam janam).[/FONT]
The soul suffers pain here and suffers hell by[/FONT]
wandering in endless reincarnations (birth after[/FONT]
birth).[/FONT]
eIhwN duKu AwgY nrku BuMcY bhu jonI BrmwvY][/FONT]
(SGGS page 1224 M 5)[/FONT]
ihan dukh again arak bhunchai baho joni bharmavai.[/FONT]
These are just a few examples from Gurbani. But the so[/FONT]
called Nanakian philosophy ignored all the shabads[/FONT]
giving clear instruction about the existence of soul as[/FONT]
separate from the body and whether it gets closer to[/FONT]
God or gets into a wandering cycle away from God[/FONT]
based on its good or bad action during its human life.[/FONT]
Instead it zeroed in to misinterpret a M:5 shabad on[/FONT]
SGGS page 885 about the death and disintegration of[/FONT]
the body and dispersal of elements ([/FONT]pvnY mih pvn
smwieAw). The classic example of scientific[/FONT]
methodology in action is presented in interpreting[/FONT]
the terms sanjog and vijog from the pauri 28 of[/FONT]
Japji Sahib as Fusion and Fission. [/FONT]Japji Sahib pauris[/FONT]
27 and 28 are about the Yogis where Guru ji advise[/FONT]
them if they do not have contentment and other virtues[/FONT]
their symbols are of no use. Simple advice to the Yogis[/FONT]
is made into something confusing for the seekers.[/FONT]
The rejection of revelation as the basis of Sikh religion[/FONT]
and considering it the philosophy of one person based[/FONT]
on his life experiences nullifies Gurbani completely.[/FONT]
This amounts to calling the Sikh Gurus liars when they[/FONT]
say we had direct communication with the Divine. It is[/FONT]
good thing that Sikh priest (Granthis) and so called[/FONT]
High Priests (Takhats’ Jathedars) are illiterate and[/FONT]
cannot read English and the Sikh intellectuals do not[/FONT]
like to read anything written by other Sikh intellectuals[/FONT]
that the Nanakian philosophy lies safely buried on[/FONT]
bookselves. I shudder to think of the consequences of[/FONT]
the Sikh communal reaction if the Nanakian [/FONT]Failosophy[/FONT]
was authored by a non-Sikh.[/FONT]
Gurpal Singh Khaira[/FONT]
DIVINE REVELATION THE BASIS OF SIKH RELIGION[/FONT]
Interpretation of Gurbani of Sri Guru Granth Sahib (SGGS) had[/FONT]
been and continues to be influenced by the background and the[/FONT]
discipline the interpreter belonged to i.e. Vedantic, Islamic,[/FONT]
Christian, agnosticism and even the atheism. It is also affected by[/FONT]
the professional discipline of the interpreting scholar such as[/FONT]
science, philosophy, legal etc. However the interpreting scholars[/FONT]
lack spiritual background and knowledge and rely on analyzing the[/FONT]
words (Akhar) of Gurbani, a sort of playing gymnastics with[/FONT]
language to render their conclusions. They foray into Gurbani of[/FONT]
SGGS in search of words or lines in shabads to equivocate and[/FONT]
support their preconceived notions. Any meaningful discussion with[/FONT]
them is not possible. They use strident tones in their discussion to[/FONT]
prate absurdities with the greatest seriousness.[/FONT]
Then what is there to insure that the interpretations and conclusions[/FONT]
an interpreter with scientific background using western[/FONT]
methodology or principles of science will be accurate and better[/FONT]
than all others. For example until recently science told us that life[/FONT]
cannot exist below certain depth in the ocean. Recent discovery of[/FONT]
creatures living at depths far below that limit proves the scientific[/FONT]
conclusions can be wrong. In a recent TV interview a prominent[/FONT]
NASA physicist with lots of credits to his name said the laws of[/FONT]
physics as we know on earth may not be applicable elsewhere in the[/FONT]
vast Universe. Gurbani already tells us in the Japji Sahib that [/FONT]“no[/FONT]
matter how much anyone tries to explain and describe them, the[/FONT]
doings of the creator are incomprehensible”.[/FONT]
jy ko khY krY vIcwru[ krqy kY krxY nwhI sumwru]
(SGGS Page 3 Japji)[/FONT]
Je Ko kahai karai vichar, karte kai karnai nahi sumar.[/FONT]
Languages humans use to communicate with each other are not[/FONT]
sufficient even for the exalted and blessed souls to explain the Will[/FONT]
of God[/FONT]. Even Knowing God, I cannot describe Him; He cannot[/FONT]
be described in words. Gurbani Says;[/FONT]
jy hau jwxw AwKw nwhI khxw kQnu n jweI][/FONT]
(SGGS page 2 Japji)[/FONT]
Je hao jana akha nahi kahna kathan na jai.[/FONT]
Gurbani says through fifty two letters, the three worlds[/FONT]
and all things are described. [/FONT]But these letters shall[/FONT]
perish just like everything else in this world; they[/FONT]
cannot describe the unperishable.[/FONT]
ey AKr iKir jwihgy Eie AKr ien mih nwih][/FONT]
E Akhar khir jahige oe akhar in meh nahi.[/FONT]
Sikh Bulletin has been publishing articles by Dr.[/FONT]
Davinder Singh Chahal ji, a retired science professor[/FONT]
who has been expounding his Nanakian Phylosophy in[/FONT]
careful and often elaborate details which he claims he[/FONT]
arrived at using western scientific methodology in[/FONT]
interpreting Gurbani of SGGS. He has published the[/FONT]
English translation of Japji Sahib and a book titled[/FONT]
“Nanakian Philosophy, Basis for humanity”. We are[/FONT]
publishing chapter 25 titled “Nanakian Philosophy and[/FONT]
Science” of this book. Even though his labor and[/FONT]
persistent marketing is admirable his interpretation of[/FONT]
Gurbani has not achieved any acceptance. I am of the[/FONT]
opinion Dr. Chahal believes his explication conform to[/FONT]
the facts and strict requirements of a specific ideology[/FONT]
or logic or the known truth. However his firm scientific[/FONT]
belief that if you cannot see, touch, hear or feel[/FONT]
something it does not exist, has taken him away from[/FONT]
the spiritual and divine reality rendering his[/FONT]
interpretations inapt.[/FONT]
Gurbani is neither Philosophy nor Nanakian[/FONT]
(Charan Singh Ontario/Canada, an email)[/FONT]
Sikh religion is based on the premise that God Himself[/FONT]
revealed to Guru Nanak Dev Ji and endowed him with[/FONT]
divine knowledge (Gurmat Gian) for the benefit of[/FONT]
suffering humanity. Soul exists and the body is its[/FONT]
temporary abode. Death of body is not death of the[/FONT]
soul[/FONT]. Any interpretation of Gurbani of SGGS which[/FONT]
denies the absolute personality of loving God who is[/FONT]
involved in His creation and is also independent of it[/FONT]
is erroneous and misleading.[/FONT]
Thou the independent father, thou are with all and[/FONT]
without all.[/FONT]
sB hI miD siBh qy bwhir bymuhqwj bwpw]
(SGGS page 51 M 5)[/FONT]
Sabh hi madh sabheh te baher bemuhtaj bapa.[/FONT]
Nanakian Philosophy denies God’s personality and[/FONT]
expresses a tendency to identify God and Nature as[/FONT]
one. Because there is no God independent of Nature,[/FONT]
nothing can properly be termed sacred or holy. Despite[/FONT]
the clear and specific evidence in the SGGS it does not[/FONT]
accept Gurmat preached by the Sikh Gurus as divine[/FONT]
revelation. It is important to define the difference[/FONT]
between Revelation and Philosophy.[/FONT]
Revelation [/FONT](Webster’s Dictionary)[/FONT]
“Something that is revealed by God to man”, the[/FONT]
dictionary of Philosophy also defines Revelation as[/FONT]
“communication of Devine Will”.[/FONT]
Philosophy [/FONT](Webster’s Dictionary)[/FONT]
“A search for a general understanding of values and[/FONT]
reality by chiefly speculative rather than observational[/FONT]
means”. “The most general belief concepts and[/FONT]
attitude of an individual or group”.[/FONT]
Based on these definitions it is wrong to label[/FONT]
Gurmat as philosophy. It does not fit. There is[/FONT]
nothing speculative in the Gurbani of SGGS. To the[/FONT]
best of my knowledge it specifically details the[/FONT]
spiritual path for ascending to the divine reality.[/FONT]
Gurbani clearly states Guru Nanak Dev’s unique[/FONT]
spiritual experience as he was called to God’s presence[/FONT]
and blessed with HIS service.[/FONT]
hauo FwFI vykwr kwrY lwieAw………FwFI scY mhil[/FONT]
Ksim bulwieAw [/FONT](SGGS page 150 M:1)[/FONT]
hao dhadhi vekar karai laia……..[/FONT]
Dhadhi sachai mahal khasam bulaia[/FONT]
I the bard out of work, the Lord put me to his[/FONT]
service.......The Master summoned the minstrel to HIS[/FONT]
true court.[/FONT]
Bhai Gurdas has also given account of when Guru[/FONT]
Nanak Dev Ji ascended to the plane of truth and[/FONT]
appeared before the True One.[/FONT]
phlW bwby pwieAw bKS dr, ipCoN dy iPr Gwl[/FONT]
kumweI [/FONT](Bhai Gurdas Var 1 Stenza 24)[/FONT]
Pehlan babay paia bakhash dar pichho de phir Ghal[/FONT]
kumaee.[/FONT]
Thus the divine revelation, spiritual communication of[/FONT]
Guru Nanak Dev Ji is directly from God. The[/FONT]
knowledge and truth communicated through this[/FONT]
revelation is traceable to the divine and not the body[/FONT]
and mind of the Guru. The Guru ji says his role is that[/FONT]
of a mediator and not that of a moderator.[/FONT]
jYsI mY AwvY Ksm kI bwnI qYsVw krI igAwnu vy lwlo][/FONT]
(SGGS page 722 M:1)[/FONT]
jaisi mai avai khasam ki bani taisra kari gian ve lalo.[/FONT]
As the Word of the Lord comes to me, so do I utter, O[/FONT]
Lalo.[/FONT]
There are more references available in the Hymns of[/FONT]
the Gurus which tell us that the ultimate truth or Shabd[/FONT]
is communicated to the Gurus in direct communication[/FONT]
with God. According to SGGS (Guru) divine[/FONT]
manifestation is expressed in the concept of Joti. It is[/FONT]
the ascension of the seeker to God, not the descent of[/FONT]
God[/FONT]. “HE makes angels out of men, without delay”.[/FONT]
ijn mwxs qy dyvqy kIey krq nw lwgI vwr]
(SGGS page 462 M:1)[/FONT]
Jin manas te devate kie karat na lagi var.[/FONT]
Once a seeker ascends to the plane of truth the Gurbani[/FONT]
tells us he then does not go astray ([/FONT]nW auh mry nW Twgy
jwey) and after [/FONT]he gets Revelation he continues to stay[/FONT]
in tune with God.[/FONT]
Bgq sMig pRB gosit krq][/FONT]
Bhagat sang parabh gosat karat. (SGGS page 894 M:5)[/FONT]
The revelation in Islam and Jewish traditions is not[/FONT]
directly from God to man. It is through an angel to[/FONT]
Mohammad and from a burning bush to Moses[/FONT]
respectively. In Christianity it is word made flesh and[/FONT]
no direct communication from God. There is no[/FONT]
revelation in Hinduism as God descends to earth as[/FONT]
Avtar. It is Guru Nanak Dev Ji, the first prophet who[/FONT]
clearly states that divine spiritual revelation he received[/FONT]
was not dependent upon any source and that God[/FONT]
directly, without intercession, revealed Himself to him[/FONT]
and what he (Nanak) spoke was directly from God[/FONT]
Himself (SGGS page 722). [/FONT]Yet this so called[/FONT]
Nanakian Philosophy and its proponent scholars[/FONT]
accept revelation as basis of other major religions[/FONT]
but they deny divine revelation as the basis of Sikh[/FONT]
religion. I wonder what makes Mohammad and[/FONT]
Moses believable whose revelation was not direct[/FONT]
from God and is recorded from Hearsay several[/FONT]
centuries after their deaths but not Guru Nanak[/FONT]
Dev ji who left for us his own hand written[/FONT]
documentary evidence of divine spiritual revelation[/FONT]
to him.[/FONT]
Soul[/FONT]
According to Gurbani a long period of time evolved[/FONT]
after the creation of the universe for environment to[/FONT]
settle down. The known universe is sustained by[/FONT]
motion. The moons revolve around planets, the planets[/FONT]
revolve around the suns and the suns revolve around[/FONT]
other larger suns. We know now, even the galaxies are[/FONT]
on the move. [/FONT]Evolution is a reaction to constant[/FONT]
change that is universal throughout the universe[/FONT].[/FONT]
Every living organism came into existence within[/FONT]
God’s Will and is born with a fixed time clock for[/FONT]
staying alive that differs for everything. Thus all[/FONT]
creation including humans had to go through[/FONT]
evolutionto arrive at the present state of existence.[/FONT]
Nowhere in the Gurbani it says that God created the[/FONT]
world as we see it now.[/FONT]
Gurbani specifically explains in very clear terms that[/FONT]
the soul is granted human body as an opportunity to[/FONT]
connect with the Perm-soul and warns not to waste this[/FONT]
chance with pursuits which may thwart this goal. [/FONT]This[/FONT]
human body has been granted to you. This is your[/FONT]
chance to meet the Lord of the universe.[/FONT]
BeI prwpiq mwnuK dyhurIAw][/FONT]
goibMd imlx kI ieh qyrI brIAw][/FONT]
(SGGS page 12 M5)[/FONT]
Bhai prapat manukh dahuria,[/FONT]
Gobind milan ki ih teri baria.[/FONT]
Gurbani explains the God’s justice system using terms[/FONT]
as true court (sachi dergah), righteous judge (dharam[/FONT]
hadur), and true verdicts are rendered (othai sacho hi[/FONT]
sach nibrai), record of merits and demerits is read in[/FONT]
the presence of lord of dharama (changaia buraia[/FONT]
vachai dharam hadur). Verdict for souls with merits is[/FONT]
described as “receives honors in the true court”[/FONT]
(dargeh pavai mann), radiant face (mukh ujal). After[/FONT]
the soul leaves the body where does it goe? Gurbani[/FONT]
uses terms such as here and on the other side (halat,[/FONT]
palat), here and over there (aithai, othai), after life and[/FONT]
past life (agai, pashai) etc. Some of the terms used for[/FONT]
the soul are jind, jio, jinderia, and jia. Some of the[/FONT]
terms used for the body are pind, kaian, dehuria.[/FONT]
Migration of soul is explained as many births (bahut[/FONT]
janam), birth after birth (janam janam).[/FONT]
The soul suffers pain here and suffers hell by[/FONT]
wandering in endless reincarnations (birth after[/FONT]
birth).[/FONT]
eIhwN duKu AwgY nrku BuMcY bhu jonI BrmwvY][/FONT]
(SGGS page 1224 M 5)[/FONT]
ihan dukh again arak bhunchai baho joni bharmavai.[/FONT]
These are just a few examples from Gurbani. But the so[/FONT]
called Nanakian philosophy ignored all the shabads[/FONT]
giving clear instruction about the existence of soul as[/FONT]
separate from the body and whether it gets closer to[/FONT]
God or gets into a wandering cycle away from God[/FONT]
based on its good or bad action during its human life.[/FONT]
Instead it zeroed in to misinterpret a M:5 shabad on[/FONT]
SGGS page 885 about the death and disintegration of[/FONT]
the body and dispersal of elements ([/FONT]pvnY mih pvn
smwieAw). The classic example of scientific[/FONT]
methodology in action is presented in interpreting[/FONT]
the terms sanjog and vijog from the pauri 28 of[/FONT]
Japji Sahib as Fusion and Fission. [/FONT]Japji Sahib pauris[/FONT]
27 and 28 are about the Yogis where Guru ji advise[/FONT]
them if they do not have contentment and other virtues[/FONT]
their symbols are of no use. Simple advice to the Yogis[/FONT]
is made into something confusing for the seekers.[/FONT]
The rejection of revelation as the basis of Sikh religion[/FONT]
and considering it the philosophy of one person based[/FONT]
on his life experiences nullifies Gurbani completely.[/FONT]
This amounts to calling the Sikh Gurus liars when they[/FONT]
say we had direct communication with the Divine. It is[/FONT]
good thing that Sikh priest (Granthis) and so called[/FONT]
High Priests (Takhats’ Jathedars) are illiterate and[/FONT]
cannot read English and the Sikh intellectuals do not[/FONT]
like to read anything written by other Sikh intellectuals[/FONT]
that the Nanakian philosophy lies safely buried on[/FONT]
bookselves. I shudder to think of the consequences of[/FONT]
the Sikh communal reaction if the Nanakian [/FONT]Failosophy[/FONT]
was authored by a non-Sikh.[/FONT]
Gurpal Singh Khaira[/FONT]
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