Karmee Aavai Kaprhaa Nadree Mokh Du-aar

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

With due respect when we say that the Vedas Purans etc have no Locus Standi in understanding Gurmatt...we mean no disrespect...no enmity etc..towards hindus or whatever. The Vedas may be chock full of wisdom..whatever..BUT to Understand Gurmatt and Gurbani Gyaan of Guru Nanak - THAT particular wisdom/knowledge is not necessary. I dont think I "have" to be fully versed in the GIta and study the battles of Mahabharta" to understand Guru Granth Sahib Ji or understand the battles of Anandpur Sahib Chamkaur Sahib...I find Krishan Ji instructing Arjun that CHALL (trickery/falsehood/etc ) is NEEDED to defeat the Enemy..I did not find any such instructions in the Life and Battles of Guru Gobind Singh ji....yet many Parcharaks etc are so fond of quoting Mahabharta Tales and Gita Updesh in their Parchaar which they term as "GURMATT":japosatnamwaheguru::japosatnamwaheguru: GURMATt and SGGS and the Sikh GURU stand ALONE..Higher than anyone else...:japosatnamwaheguru::japosatnamwaheguru:

 

[japjisahib04]

My point was linked to literal interpretation and as such incorrect understanding of gurbani resulting in condemning and under estimating other religious books and not, 'that the Vedas Purans etc have no Locus Standi in understanding Gurmatt. I wonder when gurbani tells me, 'ਪੂਰਨ ਭਗਵਾਨੈ ਅਉਗਣੁ ਕੋ ਨ ਚਿਤਾਰੇ ॥ - that it does not even taunt or reminds me of my short comings then how could it condemn or under estimate treasure of other religion text books Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.784.12.

Please check it up yourselve:
ਕੇਤੇ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਾਣ ਕਹਿ ਕਹਿ ਜਾਵਣਾ ॥
Some speak and expound, and while speaking and lecturing, they pass away.

ਵੇਦ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਣ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥
The Vedas speak and expound on the Lord, but they do not know His limits.

ਪੜਿਐ ਨਾਹੀ ਭੇਦੁ ਬੁਝਿਐ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥
Not by studying, but through understanding, is the Lord's Mystery revealed.

ਖਟੁ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੈ ਭੇਖਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਵਣਾ ॥
There are six pathways in the Shaastras, but how rare are those who merge in the True Lord through them.

In the process of 'how to be sachiar' how does veds and six pathsways in shaastras comes in. My suggestion was to interpret gurbani with gurbani and as such interpret word 'ved' as inner voice as highlighted by guru sahib in fourth pauree of japji sahib and 'khat darshan' as sensory organ (ਛਿਅ ਘਰ ਛਿਅ ਗੁਰ ਛਿਅ ਉਪਦੇਸ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਏਕੋ ਵੇਸ ਅਨੇਕ ॥੧ behind all sensory organ there is one 'gur' which is dhiyan - thus fill this dhiyan with satguru dee mat), 'jug jug' not different ages but of present life - always, the understanding seems more logical and will create goodwill rather than misconception.

 

[japjisahib04]

[/FONT]
Thus the divine revelation, spiritual communication of[/FONT]
Guru Nanak Dev Ji is directly from God. The[/FONT]
knowledge and truth communicated through this[/FONT]
revelater h is traceable to the divine and not the body[/FONT]
and mind of the Guru. The Guru ji says his role is that[/FONT]
of a mediator and not that of a moderator.[/FONT]
jYsI mY AwvY Ksm kI bwnI qYsVw krI igAwnu vy lwlo][/FONT]
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji page 722 M:1)[/FONT]
jaisi mai avai khasam ki bani taisra kari gian ve lalo.[/FONT]
As the Word of the Lord comes to me, so do I utter, O[/FONT]
Lalo.[/FONT]

This one liner 'jaisi mai aavey - is most mis-understood panktee. On one hand it is stated that guru sahib is telling, 'as the message of God descends upon him he is passing as it as his role is of mediator and not moderator but on the other hand sabd is linked with history relating with moghul emperor. Question is, whether historical events, if any, narrated and incorporated in the Holy Scriptures by the prophets and Guru Sahiban also revelations by the Akal Purakh. Further, if all the Scriptures were revealed by the Akal Purakh to the Sikh Guru Sahiban and other religious prophets; then, why didn't they pen-name each Sabd, and each hymn in their individual names but for Guru Sahiban dedicating their Sabds to Guru Nanak and not Akal Purakh? For example, Guru Sahiban and all other contributors to AGGS have used phenoms as 'Jan Nanak', Daas Nanak, Nanak Sewak, Kahu-Nanak--Nanak in person, as well; and, the Bhagtas using their pen-name in their narrations also.

Since Gurbani is universal, each and every pankti applies to everyone for transformation. Thus when we relate this sabd, with the story of Guru Nanak’ visit to Bhai Lalo and dialogue with him, how will it relate to us for our upliftment.

In addition, if the sabd is really discussing a dialogue with Bhai Lalo, then why whole episode is not written altogether at one place, like the Sidh Ghost and why is it scattered between page 300 to page 722 narrating as eyewitness or performance. Thus in my opinion lalo over here stands for manh.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

My point was linked to literal interpretation and as such incorrect understanding of gurbani resulting in condemning and under estimating other religious books and not, 'that the Vedas Purans etc have no Locus Standi in understanding Gurmatt. I wonder when gurbani tells me, 'ਪੂਰਨ ਭਗਵਾਨੈ ਅਉਗਣੁ ਕੋ ਨ ਚਿਤਾਰੇ ॥ - that it does not even taunt or reminds me of my short comings then how could it condemn or under estimate treasure of other religion text books Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.784.12.

Please check it up yourselve:
ਕੇਤੇ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਾਣ ਕਹਿ ਕਹਿ ਜਾਵਣਾ ॥
Some speak and expound, and while speaking and lecturing, they pass away.

ਵੇਦ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਣ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥
The Vedas speak and expound on the Lord, but they do not know His limits.

ਪੜਿਐ ਨਾਹੀ ਭੇਦੁ ਬੁਝਿਐ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥
Not by studying, but through understanding, is the Lord's Mystery revealed.

ਖਟੁ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੈ ਭੇਖਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਵਣਾ ॥
There are six pathways in the Shaastras, but how rare are those who merge in the True Lord through them.

In the process of 'how to be sachiar' how does veds and six pathsways in shaastras comes in. My suggestion was to interpret gurbani with gurbani and as such interpret word 'ved' as inner voice as highlighted by guru sahib in fourth pauree of japji sahib and 'khat darshan' as sensory organ (ਛਿਅ ਘਰ ਛਿਅ ਗੁਰ ਛਿਅ ਉਪਦੇਸ ॥ ਛਿਅ ਘਰ ਛਿਅ ਗੁਰ ਛਿਅ ਉਪਦੇਸ ॥ behind all sensory organ there is one 'gur' which is dhiyan - thus fill this dhiyan with satguru dee mat), 'jug jug' not different ages but of present life - always, the understanding seems more logical and will create goodwill rather than misconception.

Sahni ji,

Guru Fateh.

As you are well aware that we are all Sikhs, learners and seekers here. So, in order to learn, I would request you to post the whole Shabads one by one with the page numbers and also with your own understandings of each so we can learn from each other.

What points of what discussion are you trying to guide us with these verses? I have no idea about it, to be honest, hence I seek your help.

This way becomes quite nebulous and confusing because I have no idea if you are using one liners to prove your point of argument or for some other reason unknown to us.

I love learning from great students like you, therefore this request. I hope you heed to that.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[japjisahib04]

Sahni ji,

Guru Fateh.

As you are well aware that we are all Sikhs, learners and seekers here. So, in order to learn, I would request you to post the whole Shabads one by one with the page numbers and also with your own understandings of each so we can learn from each other.

What points of what discussion are you trying to guide us with these verses? I have no idea about it, to be honest, hence I seek your help.

This way becomes quite nebulous and confusing because I have no idea if you are using one liners to prove your point of argument or for some other reason unknown to us.

I love learning from great students like you, therefore this request. I hope you heed to that.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Jee,

To be very honest, like you I am also student. Further I am not scholar like you and Gyani Jee. I am a tyre dealer who whenever gets a chance delve in gurbani and tries to reach to the logic and then translate the shabad. Please which advise which particular sabd you are referring.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Tejwant Jee,

To be very honest, like you I am also student. Further I am not scholar like you and Gyani Jee. I am a tyre dealer who whenever gets a chance delve in gurbani and tries to reach to the logic and then translate the shabad. Please which advise which particular sabd you are referring.

Sahni ji,

Guru Fateh.

We are all on the same boat and have been for many many years and the ride has been great and I am sure it will continue in this manner with our very productive interaction.

You can start with one Shabad at a time and express your point relating to the Shabad regarding our interaction and we will go from there.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

To be "honest" ..ALL (each one of us) here are SIKHS ...but the names, titles, mean NOTHING.
SO while my name/title/whatever may be Gyani..it doesnt mean zilch..as far as the SIKH Qualifier goes...I am at the same level as anyone else..one of us is a Tyre Dealer..I am dealer in languages..human and computer..meaning I make a living out of teaching Punjabi, English and Computers..that certainly doenst make me any "better" "higher" whatever ..at the Level of SIKH..I am similar to anyone and everyone.
I learnt a lot form the late Narayanjyot kaur..a teacher same as me..but also a SIKH who became a "SIKH" in 2005..while I was supposedly BORN a SIKH in 1949 !!!
I am learning a lot form many at SPN as well as the many i meet daily..at the Market, at the supermarket, gym, school, park, hospital, train station, petrol station, world cup match...in my daily life...also on facebook !!!
we are all students...SIKHS. Period.

 

[japjisahib04]

I will start with a very simple pankti and hope and pray almost every active members shares their understanding alongwith me.

ਭੂਖੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ॥ I am so hungry, I cannot perform devotional worship service.
ਯਹ ਮਾਲਾ ਅਪਨੀ ਲੀਜੈ ॥ Here, Lord, take back Your mala.
ਹਉ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਸੰਤਨ ਰੇਨਾ ॥ I beg for the dust of the feet of the Saints.
ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਸੀ ਕਾ ਦੇਨਾ ॥੧॥ I do not owe anyone anything. ||1|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 656

Literal interpretation on internet reveals, 'with empty stomach I cannot pray thus take back your mala? The first question comes to my mind did our guru sahiban or God gave us any 'mala' that we are trying to return back? Second is gurbani contradictory that on one hand it says, 'bhukhia bukh n utri - when I cannot satiate then why am I laying this condition. Whereas the context of the sabd revolves around manh, 'ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ਤਉ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੧੧॥ since my mind has realized its food of divine wisdom(manh ka tosa har naam hai) and as such has connected with its roots then how could we link these pankti with hunger of belly.

As per my understanding bhagat kabir is addressing himself as a first person and saying, oye bhukhai manh (when involved in rat race) how could you see God and love everyone, in this state of mind, thus accept back this mala - meri simrani rasna uppar ram - my rosary is my tongue and not beeds mala. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.1364.11.

I look forward feed back
thanks

 

[Luckysingh]

I will start with a very simple pankti and hope and pray almost every active members shares their understanding alongwith me.

ਭੂਖੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ॥ I am so hungry, I cannot perform devotional worship service.
ਯਹ ਮਾਲਾ ਅਪਨੀ ਲੀਜੈ ॥ Here, Lord, take back Your mala.
ਹਉ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਸੰਤਨ ਰੇਨਾ ॥ I beg for the dust of the feet of the Saints.
ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਸੀ ਕਾ ਦੇਨਾ ॥੧॥ I do not owe anyone anything. ||1|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 656

Literal interpretation on internet reveals, 'with empty stomach I cannot pray thus take back your mala? The first question comes to my mind did our guru sahiban or God gave us any 'mala' that we are trying to return back? Second is gurbani contradictory that on one hand it says, 'bhukhia bukh n utri - when I cannot satiate then why am I laying this condition. Whereas the context of the sabd revolves around manh, 'ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ਤਉ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੧੧॥ since my mind has realized its food of divine wisdom(manh ka tosa har naam hai) and as such has connected with its roots then how could we link these pankti with hunger of belly.

As per my understanding bhagat kabir is addressing himself as a first person and saying, oye bhukhai manh (when involved in rat race) how could you see God and love everyone, in this state of mind, thus accept this mala - meri simrani rasna uppar ram - my rosary is my tongue and not beeds mala. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.1364.11.

I look forward feed back
thanks

The message of this shabad is not about mala at all.
You have to see the proceeding pangtis that follow to see it in it's entirety.

Quite simply, It is about Kabirji feeling torn between bhakti and Maya.
He is saying that "I am hungry for Maya, so take back the mala because I can't jap or give dhian in simran''

The later lines show that he asks for just the very simple needs of maya in order to worship the dust of sangat/saints- because he feels much lower than all.

 

[arshi]

japjisahib04

I am a tyre dealer who whenever gets a chance delve in gurbani and tries to reach to the logic and then translate the shabad.

Sahni ji you are well-grounded in humility which is both genuine and touching. I, for one, know you are very well connected (worldly and spiritually). We are all brothers in faith and learners. We may not always agree with each other’s interpretation but then that is how we learn, being humble but yet holding onto our self-esteem.

Best regards.

Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’

 

[Abneet]

To be "honest" ..ALL (each one of us) here are SIKHS ...but the names, titles, mean NOTHING.
SO while my name/title/whatever may be Gyani..it doesnt mean zilch..as far as the SIKH Qualifier goes...I am at the same level as anyone else..one of us is a Tyre Dealer..I am dealer in languages..human and computer..meaning I make a living out of teaching Punjabi, English and Computers..that certainly doenst make me any "better" "higher" whatever ..at the Level of SIKH..I am similar to anyone and everyone.
I learnt a lot form the late Narayanjyot kaur..a teacher same as me..but also a SIKH who became a "SIKH" in 2005..while I was supposedly BORN a SIKH in 1949 !!!
I am learning a lot form many at SPN as well as the many i meet daily..at the Market, at the supermarket, gym, school, park, hospital, train station, petrol station, world cup match...in my daily life...also on facebook !!!
we are all students...SIKHS. Period.

These days no has a right definition of a Sikh. People say if you have rehat or kesh and dhari you are a Sikh. But now do we want to call KPS Gill a Sikh huh? Now those with titles of Baba,Sant,Brahmgyani, or Mahapurash only God knows who really is one. Sikhs are forever learning and your right on that part. It is a never ending process. There is something new to discover everyday whether from online sangat or GGS or about other subjects.
We all are seekers and learners of the Truth to be honest. If we have differences on touchy topics we still discuss and learn from others. There is some beauty of having a online Sikh sangat.

 

[arshi]

To be "honest" ..ALL (each one of us) here are SIKHS ...but the names, titles, mean NOTHING.
SO while my name/title/whatever may be Gyani..it doesnt mean zilch..as far as the SIKH Qualifier goes...I am at the same level as anyone else..one of us is a Tyre Dealer..I am dealer in languages..human and computer..meaning I make a living out of teaching Punjabi, English and Computers..that certainly doenst make me any "better" "higher" whatever ..at the Level of SIKH..I am similar to anyone and everyone.

Truly spoken like a Gyani.

bhai kaahoo ka-o dayt neh neh bhai maanat aan.
kaho nanak sun rey manaa giaanee tahe bakhaan (1427-7)

Fears none, frightens none (live and let live attitude) is the true hallmark of a spiritually enlightened person (a Gyani).

Thanks ji.

Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’

 

[japjisahib04]

The message of this shabad is not about mala at all.
You have to see the proceeding pangtis that follow to see it in it's entirety.

Quite simply, It is about Kabirji feeling torn between bhakti and Maya.
He is saying that "I am hungry for Maya, so take back the mala because I can't jap or give dhian in simran''

The later lines show that he asks for just the very simple needs of maya in order to worship the dust of sangat/saints- because he feels much lower than all.

Your observation is self defeating and contradicting. On one hand you say message of this shabad is not about mala but on the other hand you are saying 'I am hungry for Maya so take back the mala because I cannot jap or give dhian in simran whereas message is about positive and negative thoughts and not about ritual of bhakti and maya or material items. Through, 'ਯਹ ਮਾਲਾ ਅਪਨੀ ਲੀਜੈ ॥ kabir is trying to tell the manh to apply brake to its fire of desires and not that kabir is returning back the beeds of rosary.

Further when you say that before interpretating 'I see the proceeding pangtis that follow to see it in it's entirety', I suppose you are referring to materials items rice, wheat, milk and ghee, ghar ki ghehan etc mentioned in the sabd. If you look at the sabd in its entirety you will observe kabir is using these items in vernacular for manh to be sachiar and not tan. On page 1329 in parbhati raag, guru sahib is clarifying through sabd, 'ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਵਿਦਿਆ ਵੀਚਾਰੈ and is telling us what wheal, milk, rice etc as per gurmat stands for, 'ਜਤੁ ਸਤੁ ਚਾਵਲ ਦਇਆ ਕਣਕ ਕਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤਿ ਪਾਤੀ ਧਾਨੁ ॥ ਦੂਧੁ ਕਰਮੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਘੀਉ ਕਰਿ ਐਸਾ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਦਾਨੁ ॥੩॥ Please bless me with the rice of truth and self-restraint from vikars, the wheat of compassion, and the leaf-plate(vessel) of sach da dhan. Bless me with the milk(divine message) of good karma, and the clarified butter, the ghee, of compassion. Such are the gifts I beg of You, oh my nijhghar.Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1329. Gurmat yardstick is, 'ਜੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਦੇਹਿ ਤ ਤੁਝਹਿ ਅਰਾਧੀ ਦੁਖਿ ਭੀ ਤੁਝੈ ਧਿਆਈ ॥੨॥ ਜੇ ਭੁਖ ਦੇਹਿ ਤ ਇਤ ਹੀ ਰਾਜਾ ਦੁਖ ਵਿਚਿ ਸੂਖ ਮਨਾਈ ॥੩॥ thus question of non-devotion in hunger does not arise.

 

[Luckysingh]

Your observation is self defeating and contradicting. On one hand you say message of this shabad is not about mala but on the other hand you are saying 'I am hungry for Maya so take back the mala because I cannot jap or give dhian in simran whereas message is about positive and negative thoughts and not about ritual of bhakti and maya or material items. Through, 'ਯਹ ਮਾਲਾ ਅਪਨੀ ਲੀਜੈ ॥ kabir is trying to tell the manh to apply brake to its fire of desires and not that kabir is returning back the beeds of rosary.

Further when you say that before interpretating 'I see the proceeding pangtis that follow to see it in it's entirety', I suppose you are referring to materials items rice, wheat, milk and ghee, ghar ki ghehan etc mentioned in the sabd. If you look at the sabd in its entirety you will observe kabir is using these items in vernacular for manh to be sachiar and not tan. On page 1329 in parbhati raag, guru sahib is clarifying through sabd, 'ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਵਿਦਿਆ ਵੀਚਾਰੈ and is telling us what wheal, milk, rice etc as per gurmat stands for, 'ਜਤੁ ਸਤੁ ਚਾਵਲ ਦਇਆ ਕਣਕ ਕਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤਿ ਪਾਤੀ ਧਾਨੁ ॥ ਦੂਧੁ ਕਰਮੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਘੀਉ ਕਰਿ ਐਸਾ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਦਾਨੁ ॥੩॥ Please bless me with the rice of truth and self-restraint from vikars, the wheat of compassion, and the leaf-plate(vessel) of sach da dhan. Bless me with the milk(divine message) of good karma, and the clarified butter, the ghee, of compassion. Such are the gifts I beg of You, oh my nijhghar.Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1329. Gurmat yardstick is, 'ਜੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਦੇਹਿ ਤ ਤੁਝਹਿ ਅਰਾਧੀ ਦੁਖਿ ਭੀ ਤੁਝੈ ਧਿਆਈ ॥੨॥ ਜੇ ਭੁਖ ਦੇਹਿ ਤ ਇਤ ਹੀ ਰਾਜਾ ਦੁਖ ਵਿਚਿ ਸੂਖ ਮਨਾਈ ॥੩॥ thus question of non-devotion in hunger does not arise.

Please proceed and show me and everyone the WHOLE shabad with proceeding pangtis as mentioned,... Word for Word, Line for Line, to prove HOW I am contradicting and self defeating.
I wish to know how I may be deliberately misleading anyone by playing with bhagatji's words.
On top of that, I have not got the slightest idea what you are talking about and in what direction you are going with your explanation.


Start a new topic if you wish because it's miles away from the thread starter.

 

[japjisahib04]

Please proceed and show me and everyone the WHOLE shabad with proceeding pangtis as mentioned,... Word for Word, Line for Line, to prove HOW I am contradicting and self defeating.
I wish to know how I may be deliberately misleading anyone by playing with bhagatji's words.
On top of that, I have not got the slightest idea what you are talking about and in what direction you are going with your explanation.


Start a new topic if you wish because it's miles away from the thread starter.

Lucky Singh Jee

Let me finish it on this thread itself.

ਭੂਖੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ॥ ਯਹ ਮਾਲਾ ਅਪਨੀ ਲੀਜੈ ॥ Oh manh so long as, you are loaded with desires,(and as per gurmat, bhgati is to transmit divine traits to your various organ in order to create balance between them for oneness) thus hold these desires to create such state of mind. (as per gurmat the rosary beed is 'meri simrani rasna uppar ram - my rosary is to imbibe and sing divine traits and not to focus or count beeds of mala. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.1364.11.

ਹਉ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਸੰਤਨ ਰੇਨਾ ॥ ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਸੀ ਕਾ ਦੇਨਾ ॥੧॥ I only beg for divine intellect - the truth and practically live, as such I don't owe any account to jamm and vikars.

ਮਾਧੋ ਕੈਸੀ ਬਨੈ ਤੁਮ ਸੰਗੇ ॥ ਆਪਿ ਨ ਦੇਹੁ ਤ ਲੇਵਉ ਮੰਗੇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ This is the central idea of sabd. Oh God what type of love I have developed for divine intellect - ਸਾਚੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਲਾਗੈ ਭੂਖ ॥ and because I get alongwith you, even if you don't bless me with them I still, out of love, look every morning new divine message - ਜਾਚਕੁ ਮੰਗੈ ਦਾਨੁ ਦੇਹਿ ਪਿਆਰਿਆ ॥.

ਦੁਇ ਸੇਰ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਚੂਨਾ ॥ ਪਾਉ ਘੀਉ ਸੰਗਿ ਲੂਨਾ ॥ ਅਧ ਸੇਰੁ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਦਾਲੇ ॥ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਦੋਨਉ ਵਖਤ ਜਿਵਾਲੇ ॥੨॥
ਖਾਟ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਚਉਪਾਈ ॥ ਸਿਰਹਾਨਾ ਅਵਰ ਤੁਲਾਈ ॥ while reflecting upon rahao, it is clear bhagat jee is not suggesting a simple life but is telling manh 24 hour is chanting mala of above materials items, but when manh comes to 'mania' state of mind then as I wrote yesterday, that on page 1329 in parbhati raag, guru sahib is clarifying through sabd, 'ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਵਿਦਿਆ ਵੀਚਾਰੈ and is telling us what wheal, milk, rice etc as per gurmat stands for, 'ਜਤੁ ਸਤੁ ਚਾਵਲ ਦਇਆ ਕਣਕ ਕਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤਿ ਪਾਤੀ ਧਾਨੁ ॥ ਦੂਧੁ ਕਰਮੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਘੀਉ ਕਰਿ ਐਸਾ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਦਾਨੁ ॥੩॥ Please bless me with the rice of truth and self-restraint from vikars, the wheat of compassion, and the leaf-plate(vessel) of sach da dhan. Bless me with the milk(divine message) of good karma, and the clarified butter, the ghee, of compassion, thus same materials items changes to divine gifts.

then guru sahib says, 'ਊਪਰ ਕਉ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਖੀਂਧਾ ॥ ਤੇਰੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰੈ ਜਨੁ ਥੀਧਾ ॥੩॥ when I imbibed your divine intellect and lived as per that jeevan jach then 'ਜਨੁ ਥੀਧਾ manh transmittes the divine intellect to my other body organs.

ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੀਤਾ ਲਬੋ ॥ ਇਕੁ ਨਾਉ ਤੇਰਾ ਮੈ ਫਬੋ ॥ I no more greed and go for vikar as your divine wisdom in the form of graceful dress - robe of honor suits on me and it protects my honor 'prem patola teh say ditta dakkan ko pat meri' ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ਤਉ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੧੧॥ when manh is pleased and appeased then it enters into bliss.

I am in a hurry and will complete tommorrow but hope this clarifies your point.

 

[japjisahib04]

Before Guru Nanak the general belief was centered around looking after physical body. In contrary to this gurbani promulgated that creator's whole show is the play of Manh. When guru sahib says, 'ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਨ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ॥ - in fact it is not linked with filling/appeasing of physical body or collection of material items but belly of manh. Similarly when gurbani, says, 'ਫਿਟੁ ਇਵੇਹਾ ਜੀਵਿਆ ਜਿਤੁ ਖਾਇ ਵਧਾਇਆ ਪੇਟੁ॥ again it is not linked with fattening of physical body and gurbani is not cursing those whose way of living fattens the belly - in fact there is no particular way which fattens or slims the physical body.

I try to interpret gurbani with gurbani and I am not imposing but explaining how literal interpretation sucks the real message.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

As long as we stay "attached" to the OLD STUFF....we cannot get the Gurus Message which is Ultra Modern and Paradigm SHIFT AWAY from the old established well trodden paths..

The OLD Paths...run on TRACKS like the steam railway...PHYSICAL BODY...DEH..and everything associated with it is Paramount....so we have sarovars and teeraths..to "bathe" the Physical DEH, we have pilgrimages, we have fasts, we have Penances...like standing on one leg, sitting near dhoonees fires in summer, sitting with one arm up..various postures, various tortures like going up a thousand steps on ones knees..walking barefoot..etc etc etc etc..and all these were done to achieve what ?/ "RELIGIOUS BENEFIT...that is NOT PHYSICAL..but to do with the Mannh, the Mind, the soul. the spirit..whatever...

GURU NANAK JI came and DISCARDED the railway Tracks, threw away the railway bogies, the steam engines..and the One Track way....HE LEVELLED the GROUND and BUILT the Super fast Modern 6XXXXXG WIFI way...the GURBANI is WIFI..it doesnt need tracks and bogeys and steam engines..the MAANH...is whats its ALL ABOUT....and the Mannh is invisible..it doesnt need Ghee..or attah..or rosary beads..or gaddahs....the MANNH cannot be washed in sarovars or at teeraths...it cant be fed at Akhand paaths and langgars by the roadside during nagar Kirtans....staying Hungry...fasting..walking backwards..rolling on the ground..not MARRYING...not having Children..not working...ALL these...dont have an IOTA EFFECT on the MANNH !!!!

The ENTIRE 1429 pages of SGGS are NOT about the DEH....its about the MANNH...as Shani Ji is correctly interpreting....BUT sadly most of us are Stuck in our Third Class railway Bogey because we have BOUGHT the TICKET and refuse to leave the train..and its one track path behind..and adopt the WIFI 6XXXXXXG Super HIGHWAY on which the MAANH works !!!

we are still stuck in the pit that if we DONT EAT..God will be so HAPPY...if we bathe at Amrtisar..Guru Ramdass ji will jump for joy...that if we carry a 3 ft kirpan, wear 2, 3.5KG karras,hang a 10 KG Steel maala around our necks, and a 766 gazz Dumallah..Guru Gobind Singh Ji will point us out as His Panj hazaree Singh !!!! NO JIOS..NONE of that will happen...MANNH JEETEY JAG JEET...is the Bottom line...and the mannh doesnt wear maalas, beads, kacherras, dummalhs, dastaars, kesh, kirpans, and thats the reason Gurbani says Mannh na moondio ?? The BODY is merely the VESSEL...the MILK has to come from the MAANH...

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Our parcharaks and Granthis ragis etc have been so MUNDANE and ...treating the Illahi Gurbani of these Bhagats as BEGGARS...begging for ghee, attah daals and obedient wives....etc etc..thats simply becaseu these ragis themsleves are MUNDANE fellows..making a Living out of selling Gurbani..dhriggh tinnah da jeeviah jo likh likh vechann nao....so since they themselves are always counting mentally how many $ and Poundfs have been placed in their BOWL during Kirtan..they think the Bhagat Ji is also like them asking for ghee and daal attah to feed his hungry belly....Ilahi Gurbani being made to look so MUNDANE....all these metaphors relate to the MAANNH...and got nothing to dow ith laveri cows and obedient wives...

 

[japjisahib04]

Gyani Jee

I am so glad you were able to put it in much better and impressive way. Thanks

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Looking at this in another way..when a baby is born..no matter to what animal or human..the first thing done is to sever (cut) the Biblical Cord...we still "learn" from the Mother BUT we dont keep the umblical cord...Guru nanak ji CUT that Umblical Cord when He point blank REFUSED to wear the JANEAU...one of the fundamental and basic rites of passage for a person born in a Hindu Family...sadly most Sikhs today are so reluctant to cut that cord.....GURMATT is a Paradifm Shift..360degree turn...from the Old established religious paths..be they be Puranic, Vedic, Kitabic etc. For this reason Guru Ji chose brand new alphabet, brand new langauge (in religious usage) Not Sanskrit or Arabic/Persian..not the Prakirt of Buddhists...( Long before this Buddha also recognized the stranglehold of Sanskrit and Brahmins on Religious stage and also decided to discard Sanskrit and chose to use the peoples langauge to spread his faith..angering the Brahmins who eventualy wiped out Buddhism form India and exiled it abroad), gave new meanings to commonly sued words.... WE have to ACCEPT that all the answers to our questions must be found/discovered WITHIN GURBANI itself...LOOK WITHIN...