Narayanjot ji,
Thank you for posting this!
Yes, we can be very proud that Jasvinder Sanghera ji is one of us and of this tremendous work she is doing.
I wish there some way we could throw the whole concept of "izzat" into the depths of the sea. No, wait, that would pollute the sea. Let's shoot it into the sun where it could be harmlessly destroyed.
This reminds me of something my Dad used to say, "Integrity above honour."
"Izzat" (honour) is primarily social and varies from culture to culture and from time to time. So honour is relative and has nothing to do with ultimate morality. It does a lot of damage, especially to those who do not or cannot accept the mores of the culture in which they live.
Integrity is personal. It tells me within myself what is right and what is wrong. It is unchanging wherever and whenever I may be. To have integrity is to be true to my own inner self. To live with integrity is truthful living.
This lady personifies integrity. We can all learn from her.
Chardi kala!
Kanwardeep Singh ji,
It is quite possible that I wrote without having all the facts. At this point, I have no idea what is true about this particular woman. If she is truly lacking in morals, I retract the statement of her having integrity and any pride we can take in her as a Sikh, although I still applaud the work she is doing.
However, I stand by what I wrote about honour "izzat" and integrity. This whole izzat thing has got to go!
When a person is able to make headway -- and her Pride of Britain Award was conferred because she has made headway in addressing such problems, then she/anyone is doing important work - that is what I applaud. When I received help from an infectious disease specialist years ago for a rare infection, my confidence in him was based on his reputation as a "healer." I have no idea whether or not he was faithful to his wife. Would that make a differenc
I too have questions. Many of us have "sinned" in one way or the other. For how long must our wrongful deeds haunt us? Is there never a time when our wrongful deeds are off the table for criticism? I hope so for my own sake. How many of us have spotless records? Is reaching out to humanity a way to recover our virtue? How are we judged at the hour of death? And by whom? Against what measuring stick?
No one is glorifying her misbehaviour or her immoral past but what she is doing now to help others despite her own blemished past which it seems must have taught her a lesson to be on this crusade.Mai ji
I have seen glorifying jasvinder sanghera on some sikh site's despite knowing the facts.She was hardly a victim of forced marriage but a victim of Lust and her own desire's.In her story The main victim I see is jassey her boyfriend and husband who unlike many Bfs did not used and threw her and infact fulfilled all his duties as good husband and even forgave her on her first affair
He is really great man .But instead of returning her love and care she cheated her not once but twice and nowhere i saw that she is saying that she regretted her decision.
Aren't Kaurs women? I do not see the distinction you are trying to make and under what reasoning? Yes, there are all kinds of women from all walks of lives and faiths that have done good for the fellow women.This thread is Kaur power not women power I am sure there are other non sikh women too which are doing great work but there name is not mentioned in this thread.The case of scientists ,doctors are different we do appreciate them for their work but if they had something wrong in personal life we don't see them as role models.As i said above what she is doing is good.What wrong i see here is that she is portraying herself as victim of forced marriage which she hardly is.
You are totally wrong with your reasoning, your assessment and your prophecy above. In the US, Ex-criminals who were Drug dealers, Molesters, murderers on parole go to different schools and tell the kids their stories to teach them not to become and do what they had done in the past. What better example than these " role models" who admit that they have done many wrong things and the price they had to pay for those crimes.It depends on what type of mistakes we did.For example if a man was a womaniser and used women as tissue paper and never respected them and by the time he is 60 and he changes himself and start preaching to youngsters to see women as their mothers,and sisters then how many of youngsters will take his advice seriously?Also as i said above nowhere she said that she committed a mistake.If our mistakes are too big then we can't become a role model for society or preach others to be good when we never did that
by ourself.I am not against jasvinder sanghera all I am against is her portrayal.
Aren't Kaurs women? I do not see the distinction you are trying to make and under what reasoning? Yes, there are all kinds of women from all walks of lives and faiths that have done good for the fellow women.
I have no idea what the word Role Model means in your mind? Does the person have to be utopically perfect from her birth to have that, shall we call the title or a person who has been through "hell", by her own doing and then come out of it to help others? What is wrong with tha
You are totally wrong with your reasoning, your assessment and your prophecy above. In the US, Ex-criminals who were Drug dealers, Molesters, murderers on parole go to different schools and tell the kids their stories to teach them not to become and do what they had done in the past. What better example than these " role models" who admit that they have done many wrong things and the price they had to pay for those crimes.
Sikhi is about forgiveness and reintegration not about out-casting people who have done something wrong. If we use that yard stick, then we ourselves will be the first culprits of our own wrong doings.
Kanwardeep ji,
My last word (I hope) about Jasvinder Sanghera.
What right do I have to judge her? My own life would not bear close inspection. If you'd like the whole list, ask and I'll post it here in SPN. I make no secret of my misdeeds. The fact that I did these things in the madness following 1984 is no excuse. A Khalsa doesn't make excuses. If you step off a cliff, gravity doesn't care why you did it.
I stepped off a cliff and I fell. And my Guru ji caught me in kind and loving arms. I am not uninjured; I am given the opportunity to recover. I am doing my best to use that opportunity wisely. I understand something of the Kirpaa of Vaheguru.
I cannot judge this lady. I do not know what is in her heart. That is between her and her Guru. And possibly the Panj Piyare. I can only say that she is doing a very good work.
Kanwardeep ji,Kaurs are women But can we also say the same thing about men when we use thread like singh power and we only only put the cases and stories of Puran gursikh men.Why don't we put stories of Non sikh men or clean shaven sikh men which are doing good.
Do they call themselves Sikhs? Are their parents puran GurSikhs or dirty shaven like them. I know that Abhinav Bindra, who does not even use the name Singh and his first name sounds more like a Hindu name never claimed himself a Sikh in any of his interviews after he won the gold medal in the Beijing Olympics. In fact his father who is also a dirty shaven was caught in some business scandal. Do Yuvraj Singh or Dhoni call themselves Sikhs? Are their parents visible Sikhs? Please post some news about them so I can learn about their Sikh views.Let me ask you a question Yuvraj singh (cricketer) and Abhinav Bindra(gold medalist) are both from clean shaven sikh and have accomplished much in sports but did the entire sikh community recognise their acheivements the answer is no.
You have the power to combat that by posting the news that prove otherwise.Infact more hate posts on sikh sites I read about them than being happy.So sikh community never recognised contribution of clean shaven sikh men.so why do we have double standards when it comes to women Why we start using liberal logic when it comes to women.Is it not the double standard which we are talking and which we themself are using.
So, what kind of punishment in your opinion does Jasvinder Sanghera deserve for her immoral transgression in the past? If you gave her that punishment then would you be fine for what she is doing now?The criminals those actually preaches to youngsters do recognise their mistake and the problems they faced in lives and how it ruined their life because the mistakes they committed themselves.
They also face punishment for their wrong deeds.so preaching without recognising your mistake and punishment is worthless
Pardon my ignorance but I have no idea what point are you trying to make by repeating the above again and again in every post of yours. I have no idea whether she has recognised her mistakes or not. That is not for me to judge or demand from her when she should. I am sure she will when she feels ready for that. What kind of time ultimatum did you have in mind for Jaswinder to recognise her past mistakes?Now my question is Jasvinder herself gave her husband mental torture by cheating twice.So tell me where she is recognising her mistakes or preaching other women not to cheat.I have read many discussions on Jasvinder sanghera even the hard core supporter of her did not put any quote of her where she is even regretting her mistake.
You are doing nothing in the above but being a "moral judge" here for the reasons only known to you, which is sad.You said that sikhi is about forgiveness but forgiveness is one of the very cunning weapon which people used.So we should be careful about forgiveness.For every one real forgiveness there are 99 people who just use it as weapon.I am sure you have heard of muahwara( 900 choohe khaake billi haj ko chali)
you should read Jasvinders second book "Daughters of shame" before citing her as a distraction, She is years ahead of you on the subject of domestic violence. The list you wish to create is already being fought by someone who in my mind is a real Sikh, someone who fights oppression and gives women from any religion the right to chose their own way of life, She is a Sikh who has saved many lives, Her tainted past is more than wiped clean by the work she is doing. You may be suprised at how many sisters are involved in the suffering, it aint just the men,I'm with Narayanjot ji. This other woman is distracting us. Let's get back to the creation of this list of things to do. OMG
To reiterate my position, I feel that physical, domestic violence is such a large and pervasive problem that we ought first to deal with that, then move on to other issues.
And let us do this with chardi kala! Our purpose is to uplift our sister Kaurs, not to degrade our brother Singhs.
:ice:
you should read Jasvinders second book "Daughters of shame" before citing her as a distraction, She is years ahead of you on the subject of domestic violence. The list you wish to create is already being fought by someone who in my mind is a real Sikh, someone who fights oppression and gives women from any religion the right to chose their own way of life, She is a Sikh who has saved many lives, Her tainted past is more than wiped clean by the work she is doing. You may be suprised at how many sisters are involved in the suffering, it aint just the men,
Jasvinder helped the forced marriage bill go to parliament, in 2007 she recieved the women of the year award, best magazines bravest women award, and the inspiration award for women 2008. She was also made an honourary doctor of the university of Derby in 2008. Hows that for bigging up the Kaurs.
Tony (the dirty shaven Sikh)
P.S read her first book "Shame" as well