Keeping My Bodily Kesh (Hair) And Getting Used To The Gazes

[Luckysingh]

I get your point totally. It does seem inappropriate to say ' I am khalsa' or he is khalsa, she isn't!! Then again, it is still inappropriate to call someone khalsa, when they have visible faults or you know that the purity is not there.

What I was trying to say was to help eliminate this very issue, which is why I called it the brotherhood and referenced it is a rebirth and new family of equal brothers and sisters.- This way, when one takes amrit, or is baptised, they then become MEMBERS of the khalsa.

Object of all members of this khalsa, the Guru's khalsa, is to become and maintain your TRUE PURITY to the MAXimum level possible.
Like you say, we can refer to them as students if it makes it easy. But even as students they leave the judgement and graduation to the ONE and only assessor. The students should only share homework with each other and not be assessing other as the teacher would.

B.T.W- I wasn't implying that you were going off topic, it's just that we all started getting to khalsa definitions. For this issue, there is already another active thread, that's why I mentioned us going off track, as basically we were going in the same direction as another thread.

Waheguru

 

[chazSingh]

I get your point totally. It does seem inappropriate to say ' I am khalsa' or he is khalsa, she isn't!! Then again, it is still inappropriate to call someone khalsa, when they have visible faults or you know that the purity is not there.

What I was trying to say was to help eliminate this very issue, which is why I called it the brotherhood and referenced it is a rebirth and new family of equal brothers and sisters.- This way, when one takes amrit, or is baptised, they then become MEMBERS of the khalsa.

Object of all members of this khalsa, the Guru's khalsa, is to become and maintain your TRUE PURITY to the MAXimum level possible.
Like you say, we can refer to them as students if it makes it easy. But even as students they leave the judgement and graduation to the ONE and only assessor. The students should only share homework with each other and not be assessing other as the teacher would.

B.T.W- I wasn't implying that you were going off topic, it's just that we all started getting to khalsa definitions. For this issue, there is already another active thread, that's why I mentioned us going off track, as basically we were going in the same direction as another thread.

Waheguru

It's ok, threads so easily go off topic, like some of my threads have. I really should try and keep thing related to the topic itself

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

At the risk of going further off topic...

Is amrit sanskar the enrollment or the graduation?

I see Amrit Sanskar as enlistment. The Khalsa (collectively) are an army. In an Army, there are many ranks from Buck Private to Full General. Some are more advanced and most less, but all are equally members of the Army. The problems arise when the Buck Privates imagine themselves to be of higher rank than they are, often imagining themselves to be advisers to the Supreme Commander.

I would not deny the title of Khalsa to any Amritdhari Sikh who has not discharged her/himself through breaking important rules. I think that to consider only the high-ranking Officers as Khalsa would discourage enlistment and that is exactly what we do not want to do.

And perhaps someone should explain to Ruqa ji what the heck we're talking about.

I need a nap, so I pass the torch for now.

icecreamkudi

 

[Luckysingh]

At the risk of going further off topic...

Is amrit sanskar the enrollment or the graduation?

I see it as the enrollment.
If one attains liberation or salvation, then that would be the graduating stage.

 

[Luckysingh]

I
And perhaps someone should explain to Ruqa ji what the heck we're talking about.

I need a nap, so I pass the torch for now.

icecreamkudi

Well, I think she got her questions answered but if she wants to know more or doesn't understand something, then she can simply ask!!!
I do normally try and keep my explanations as simple as possible, geared towards the very young and other faiths that may be reading. However, sometimes we don't realise, that they may not have understood the question or initial posting.

 

[Ruqa]

Ok... So how do you obtain maximum purity and what are the big rules that if broken get you discharged? And how can you tell when a person is ready to graduate?

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

Ok... So how do you obtain maximum purity and what are the big rules that if broken get you discharged? And how can you tell when a person is ready to graduate?

Start with the easiest. There are four taboos (C/P from SRM):

The undermentioned four transgressions (tabooed practices) must be avoided

1. Dishonouring the hair;
2. Eating the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way;
3. Cohabiting with a person other than one's spouse;
4. Using tobacco.

In the event of the commission of any of these transgressions, the transgressor must get baptised again. If a transgression is committed unintentionally and unknowingly, the transgressor shall not be liable to punishment.

I suppose the ultimate graduation is attaining shaheedi as a Khalsa. Other than that, who am I to judge? And why would I?


How does one attain maximum purity. Ah, here is the difficult part. I would start by saying living according to the principles of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji would cover it all. To know those and understand those principles, I think is what separates the women from the girls (or men from the boys). I am still quite the Buck Private at this and would leave it to the Officers - or at least the Corporals here to explain.

Back to my nap.

 

[Luckysingh]

Ok... So how do you obtain maximum purity and what are the big rules that if broken get you discharged? And how can you tell when a person is ready to graduate?

I think Inderjeet Kaur ji explained that very well.
The last part is NOT for us to answer, simply put. If one attains maximum purity and becomes a graduate or gurmukh, then it is only the One Lord that decides if and when who is the gurmukh.
We are what they call 'mamukh', we should be looking at our own paths and not anyone elses. You see, a sikh is a student all their life, they have this sikh way of life that they have to keep working at to attain liberation and salvation.

It's not something that you can just plan to become the highest of the high, ie. You can't say 'next year, after all my hard work- I wil be gurmukh'- it doesn't work like that.
We have to realise that no one is perfect, to reach perfection and maintain it is the ultimate goal. - This is what a sikh works on all his/her life. Living by the TRUTH, by the ONE WORD, the teachings in Gurbani....they all stem to the ONE and ONLY TRUTH- the LORD OR CREATOR.
Only He Is the REAL and Ultimate Truth.
When one can become like him is when one merges with him- pure merges with pure, real truth merges with truth.

Note- There are no rewards for being a good boy!! You don't get liberated and bathe in pools of wine, beautiful gardens...etc.. -These rewards are ALL material things on earth, they are false illusions that deviate us away from the truth. A feeling of reward is a human thing, it is NOT God.

When you become as him, as in pure and truth, then you merge back with him, as we all merged FROM Him.

Hope that gives you a better idea.

 

[chazSingh]

Really well explained by Lucky Ji and Inderjeet Kaur.

The truth is we ALL started off as 100% pure, but in our attachment to creation (which is not permanent) we have forgotten our soul (which is permanent and pure)

So while we create Ego based divisions, boundaries, arguments, anger, hate, desire for everything. while we hurt one another, become more and more self centered....We have forgotton our true reality, our true self, and our true nature, our true personality - one of love, compassion, sharing, selfless service, looking to help others before thinking of our own greedy needs.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji explains how we get back to our true selves...how we can 'wake' ouselves up from the temporary existance (creation) to which we have become attached and experience the permanent and ever lasting soul and thus God.

The graduation is where we reach a level in our 'awakening' where our consciousness raises from self conscios to god conscious (i.e conscious of god in all and everything). This state cannot be described and can only be experienced by an individual.

So the end result is not a reward, brownie points, a slot in heaven.
When you becomes god conscious, when you return back to your true self, your true reality, you are one with god, ALL IS THEN BEFORE YOU, why would you then need a heaven, worldly type wants and desires why reduce youself to that level when you have become aware of all that exists in creation and all that exists beyond...

This level is described as Puran Khalsa, a true complete khalsa. Every other sikh is like a student making the efforts to slowly chip off the dirt (the crap gathered up in our minds) using tools such as selfless service, sharing with others, and Simran(meditation on the god energy that resides in us)


Hope this also helps
god bless all.

 

[Harry Haller]

When you become as him, as in pure and truth, then you merge back with him, as we all merged FROM Him.

Luckyji

I personally do not feel that I can merge with Creator anymore than I am merged already. Creator is in everything and everyone, I do not feel Creator has more to offer a better person in the merging stakes!

The way I understand it, we are already merged with Creator, it is only when we give our heads, our will, that we see the benefit, however some refuse to give their head, some give heads and take it back, very few seem to be able to give a head, and actually really give it.

Which goes to show, if you want to get ahead, give your head!, but really give it, speaking personally, I do not feel many people who promise their head, actually realise what it is they are promising, to tune into Gursikh frequency and live as such.

 

[chazSingh]

Luckyji

I personally do not feel that I can merge with Creator anymore than I am merged already. Creator is in everything and everyone, I do not feel Creator has more to offer a better person in the merging stakes!

The way I understand it, we are already merged with Creator, it is only when we give our heads, our will, that we see the benefit, however some refuse to give their head, some give heads and take it back, very few seem to be able to give a head, and actually really give it.

Which goes to show, if you want to get ahead, give your head!, but really give it, speaking personally, I do not feel many people who promise their head, actually realise what it is they are promising, to tune into Gursikh frequency and live as such.

The merging is beyond anything that can be described in 3 dimensional space. We just have to use such words because it's all we can do

when you're in a dream...you may be walking around, interacting with other people in the dream...you know who you are, you're aware/Conscious of yourself in the dream...you have a conscious experience. Now imagine someone in the dream says "hey dude, you have a higher self...a more capable self who is in a higher state of consciousness, your higher self is lying in a bed sleeping."
in the dream you'd probably think "you're on drugs man...get a life"

So, you carry on thinking the dream is 'complete reality' your 'attached to it' and you 'dont think there is anything beyond'

God thing is we 'Wake' up and we 'Remember our true selves' and understand the dream was just a different level of Consciosness.

We're doing the same in this reality. to experience god fully, we need to awaken ourself from the attachment to this reality so that we can experience highler levels of consciousness...i.e. our higher self...eventually our consciousness and awareness increases so much that we becomes god conscious...and then it doesnt matter which level of consciousness we drop to...we see god in all of it.

But yes, we are already merged in god....it's our consciousness which is attached to three dimenstional space stopping us from really experiencing god to the full.

 

[Ruqa]

Start with the easiest. There are four taboos (C/P from SRM):

Ahhhhhh...ahum.... How come Muslim's are singled out how come it doesn't say food slaughtered the Jewish way or something as well? anyway lol you make me feel special cause you gave us special mention lol

 

[Harry Haller]

Chazji

in my view you make it sound magical and beyond our control, when I feel it is realistic and very much in our control. The only thing stopping us from experiencing God to the full is ourselves. None of us want to die, to cease, to realise that our whole life is actually meaningless, so we cling on to the hope that when our time is ready, we will 'merge', but the truth is none of us have the ***** to look in the mirror and say 'ok lets do it', 'lets really do it, not try and do it, or promise to do it, or do it only when we are being watched by others, but really strip ourselves of all the vanity, ego, pride, lust and anger that defines who we are, and surrender ourselves to a line of thought and action that is validated by God'

I am afraid its that simple, all the meditation, prayer, chanting, fasts, shabads, just give you a taste of what it could be like, they bring you no closer, that requires commitment, discipline, love, understanding, wisdom.,

 

[chazSingh]

Chazji

in my view you make it sound magical and beyond our control,
It only sounds magical because these concepts are difficult to explain and actually have to be 'experienced'. a description of the joy felt scoring a goal in the world cup final can sound magical to the rest of us that havnt experienced it. Try describing the taste of an apple to someone that's born without the sense of taste? try describing the physical world to someone born blind? will it 'SOUND MAGICAL' to them?

when I feel it is realistic and very much in our control. The only thing stopping us from experiencing God to the full is ourselves. None of us want to die, to cease, to realise that our whole life is actually meaningless, so we cling on to the hope that when our time is ready, we will 'merge',
but the truth is none of us have the ***** to look in the mirror and say 'ok lets do it', 'lets really do it, not try and do it, or promise to do it,
Are you referring to yourself? because you cant be making such a statement for all of us?

I am afraid its that simple, all the meditation, prayer, chanting, fasts, shabads, just give you a taste of what it could be like, they bring you no closer, that requires commitment, discipline, love, understanding, wisdom.

How about meditation, prayer, chanting, shabads with commitment, discipline, undertanding and love?

Because you can do BOTH i know...because i;ve tried and many on this forum may have also


,

God bless

 

[Luckysingh]

Luckyji

I personally do not feel that I can merge with Creator anymore than I am merged already. Creator is in everything and everyone, I do not feel Creator has more to offer a better person in the merging stakes!

The way I understand it, we are already merged with Creator, it is only when we give our heads, our will, that we see the benefit, however some refuse to give their head, some give heads and take it back, very few seem to be able to give a head, and actually really give it.

Which goes to show, if you want to get ahead, give your head!, but really give it, speaking personally, I do not feel many people who promise their head, actually realise what it is they are promising, to tune into Gursikh frequency and live as such.

Harry ji, You CAN merge much more, we just don't know it because of the whole illusion and attachments, believe me.
I'm pretty certain that Chaz ji is on my same frequency of understanding from what he mentions above.- this is NOT because we have something in common such as simran and meditation.

We ARE already merged with creation and creator like you mention.
This is NOT what my point denies, it simply goes back down to basic level, ie. how we came into existence and not about offering your head or having no fear of death, which is off track in my explanation.

I will try to put it a little more simply.-

We are mind, body and soul, yes...agree.
We, like all things around us came from the creator, he didn't wave a wand and then all the universe and it's contents appeared out of his magic hat!!- BUT, it all came from him, he is the source, this is why we and creation is all part of him.- agree ?

Now our soul, which we are not in touch with (you could say in simple words) is actually still connected to it's origin, which is the Lord.
With our association to our physical body (which like maya, has so many years of life) and our association to all things physical in creation- we get this dividing line of separation.
Our soul is kind of physically within the body, it knows exacly where to go once it is separated. (don't think of it as trapped, think of it as the purest part of God within us).

Imagine that before the earth was formed, there was creator and creator only. It could be a force or a form of energy, but NO ONE knows, all we know is that creator has no physical form.

Basically, after creator, then came the globe of earth and it's contents. NOW, just as part of creator is merged in this planet earth, in the same way part of him is merged within us.

Think very carefully and slowly, and you will get what i'm saying!!

But, if the earth just blows up and becomes a microscopic dot, then that doesn't mean that the creator or Lord has been lost.- physically all the earth's physical features have gone ** SO, WHAT ARE WE LEFT WITH THEN ?
ANSWER= THE LORD OR CREATOR JUST AS HE WAS BEFORE CREATION!!!!!-

This is the part to understand, then you will see how we all have room for much more merging.

So, the created planet is gone and creator is left, just like before he created.

Question is , did the part of creator that was in the planet get blown up and away and just vanished ???
Answer- NO, -gurbani tells us he has no physical form and cannot be destroyed or even duplicated. Well, the part of creator in creation obviously ALL went back and MERGED into him- once again.

NOW, if you understand this concept, you will realise that there is a part of us (our soul) that has a lot more potential to merge with him.
When our physical body has had it's day and is cremated, then the soul won't be cremated.-

Where our soul goes and what process it takes, only he knows. Some of us will say transmigration, some will say reincarnation, some will say other things.....etc.... IT DOESNT MATTER, WE DON'T NEED TO KNOW, - I mean, we pay attention and talk about afterlife and blah..blah....blah...- BUT what we DO know from the Guru Granth Sahib Ji- We are just shoving aside and not doing or living it!!!!!

I think that i've made it a little clearer to understand, although you may NOT agree with the eternal soul theory or with something else, such as what happens to mind, body and soul after death. - I haven't come across anything in the Gurbani that denies or doesn't accept what I said, unless someone else can find it somewhere and post it.

Waheguru
Lucky Singh

 

[Ishna]

My humble opinion:

We're already merged, we just have to realise it.

There is no separation of creation and creator. Creation is a coagulation of God - there is nothing else except God. Gurbani says creation is a wave in the divine ocean - we think we're separate, we think god is there and we are here separated by material, but that is Haumai (ego) perceiving 'me over here and you over there' when the reality is the wave in the ocean is just the ocean taking on a shape. And it rises up in distinction (the wave) and then falls back into the ocean.

We are the ocean, and when we realise that, that is 'merging'. When we die, your personality is gone and the energy of god which formed you is absorbed back into the energy of god like the carbon in your body is scattered back all over the earth.

Perhaps we need a new thread because we've gone waaaaay away from bodily kesh now, which if I remember rightly was the subject of this thread! hahaha peacesignkaur

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

ISHA JI..you have GOT IT.

 

[Luckysingh]

My humble opinion:

We're already merged, we just have to realise it.

There is no separation of creation and creator. Creation is a coagulation of God - there is nothing else except God. Gurbani says creation is a wave in the divine ocean - we think we're separate, we think god is there and we are here separated by material, but that is Haumai (ego) perceiving 'me over here and you over there' when the reality is the wave in the ocean is just the ocean taking on a shape. And it rises up in distinction (the wave) and then falls back into the ocean.

We are the ocean, and when we realise that, that is 'merging'. When we die, your personality is gone and the energy of god which formed you is absorbed back into the energy of god like the carbon in your body is scattered back all over the earth.

Perhaps we need a new thread because we've gone waaaaay away from bodily kesh now, which if I remember rightly was the subject of this thread! hahaha peacesignkaur

This is precisely, if not very similar to a theory that I had penned down before!!!!
I know I haven't posted it on here but I will try and find it!!
All of us are in a world ocean going into the same source or destination. I had noted that the ego was like a bubble that rises above the rest of them but it is only bubble in shape and consists of the same water and falls back down into the same ocean!!

The only reason that I wrote the above post is because,- creation and creator are the same, but what came 1st ?
According to beginning of japji, creation is created and destroyed under his hukam, they didn't seem to be formed together so I think creator was 1st- ek onkaar.

Waheguru

 

[Ishna]

Lucky ji, I think this sums it up:
<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td> ਆਦਿ ਸਚੁ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਚੁ ॥
Āḏ sacẖ jugāḏ sacẖ.
True In The Primal Beginning. True Throughout The Ages.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਹੈ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੋਸੀ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ॥੧॥
Hai bẖī sacẖ Nānak hosī bẖī sacẖ. ||1||
True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever True. ||1||
</td></tr></tbody></table>
And Ruqa ji, you asked why meat from animals slaughtered in the Muslim is singled out amongst the 4 amrit-breaking taboos.

You can do a title search for 'halal' and see the many threads where it's been discussed here before. Here is one such thread.

 

[Luckysingh]

Ahhhhhh...ahum.... How come Muslim's are singled out how come it doesn't say food slaughtered the Jewish way or something as well? anyway lol you make me feel special cause you gave us special mention lol

You should see the appropriate threads to get a better idea.

Basically, you can accept that in those times in present day India/Pakistan, it was hindustan and most people were of hindu and muslim faith. You will find that sikhism references both these religions for different issues.
I will keep it as short as I can- In those times and in general, these majorities are addressed which is why there isn't mention of kosher!!