Keeping My Bodily Kesh (Hair) And Getting Used To The Gazes

[Luckysingh]

Lucky ji, I think this sums it up:
<TABLE cellSpacing=5><TBODY><TR></TR><TR><TD>ਆਦਿ ਸਚੁ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਚੁ ॥
Āḏ sacẖ jugāḏ sacẖ.
True In The Primal Beginning. True Throughout The Ages.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਹੈ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੋਸੀ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ॥੧॥
Hai bẖī sacẖ Nānak hosī bẖī sacẖ. ||1||
True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever True. ||1||

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

You can do a title search for 'halal' and see the many threads where it's been discussed here before. Here is one such thread.

A good point, but remember in japji- tu sada salamat nirankar
Nirankar- refers to the the FORMLESS, without physical form. This is mentioned in another thread, so I'm not going to dig into it too much.

In simple terms, there is Creator-The Formless and he has created creation- which is of Form.
So, creator and creation differantiate in form, but there is the formless entity WITHIN creation (the lord in all things created).

Thus, creation consists of form and formless,- we are mind, body and soul which is form and formless!!!
In similar way soul is formless but rest of us isn't.

I remember in other thread, it took me and others a while to get a grip of this concept/theory!!!

Waheguru
Lucky Singh


.

 

[Luckysingh]

Harryji and Ishna Ji,
It seems you may be getting confused with the fact that creation and creator are the same.- Yes, but this doesn't mean that they are equal or equivalent or the 'same thing'.

I am NOT going to comment on this any further as it is off topic, but there is another thread that will explain all my reasoning more clearly.
Therefore, I would refer to that thread below for further clarification.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/24236-are-creator-and-creation-same-sikhism.html

Many Thanks for your responses.

Sat Kartar
Lucky Singh

 

[Ishna]

Lucky ji thanks for pointing out a really good thread!

I think we are just about on the same page. Any more comments I can think of about this topic I will make on the thread you recommended. Thanks again bhaji. peacesignkaur

 

[Brother Onam]

Gurfateh, family,
If you would like the perspective of a man: truth be told, I spend most time in Africa and India, which is a little different than the West, aesthetically, but there is nothing more beautiful than a woman who keeps her natural hair. It actually enhances the beauty.
One can allow the twisted standards of the West to dictate what should be the image of a nice body, but if we genuinely have faith that Waheguru created us in beauty and perfection, we are not swayed by man-made standards.
In all honesty, a woman with beard, it takes a little effort, but in such places as all women were given hair, it is very beautiful. And it is beautiful in part because it reflects the inner faith and confidence of the woman that she has an understanding of herself as a living creation of the Most High, formed in His/Her divine image; Akaal Murat!

 

[Brother Onam]

On this question, it has always occurred to me that our Tenth Master chose to call men Singh and women Kaur.

Although he elevated both of our status, he kept our names distinct and seperate, recognising our differences.

By making women keep all of their bodily hair are we denying them their femininity, which our Tenth Master recognised?

With all due respect, my dear brother,
If the Creator of heaven and earth put hair on the bodies of every woman, who are we to say it is not feminine? It is the weird standards of the manmukhs that dictates a 'feminine' woman ought not have hair, where Waheguru has blessed them with hair.

 

[FreeWill]

Mai Harinder Kaur Ji,
Appreciate always keeping your Sikhi in life.

Asking a true word from you.... apart from a dress code and fear of God... did you never think of removing hair to look pretty, to feel lighter and to feel hygenically more fit. It's only human, whom God has gave liberty of thoughts. Can't we even own ourself in the society... to live liberally without harming anyone.
Cheating oneself is cheating God... if living double life is hypocrecy, aren't mist of us Hypocrites to disguise ourself.

 

[linzer]

I have question. What are the original source documents that mention keeping the 5ks?(in english please) Did Guru ji even mention a specific reason for keeping kesh?
thanks

 

[Ishna]

I have question. What are the original source documents that mention keeping the 5ks?(in english please) Did Guru ji even mention a specific reason for keeping kesh?
thanks

But I don't think the original source document was written in English! lol

I'm just playing with you Linzer veerji, I know what you meant. Hehe

Great question, but I think the answer will be, "There is none".

I don't think there is even an authentic documented khande di pahul ceremony! If there was it would shine a blazing light on the whole nitnem debate.

 

[aristotle]

I have question. What are the original source documents that mention keeping the 5ks?(in english please) Did Guru ji even mention a specific reason for keeping kesh?
thanks

Guru Gobind Singh Sahib didn't prepare any corpus document declaring the Kakaars or the Amrit ceremony. But, he did prepare and send his Hukamnamas regarding these to the local Sangats, and many of them have been preserved, although I'm not sure whether they been digitised. Moreover, all Rehatnamas written by Sikhs over the time and contemporary historian account alike mention these.

 

[namritanevaeh]

Mai Harinder Kaur Ji,
Appreciate always keeping your Sikhi in life.

Asking a true word from you.... apart from a dress code and fear of God... did you never think of removing hair to look pretty, to feel lighter and to feel hygenically more fit. It's only human, whom God has gave liberty of thoughts. Can't we even own ourself in the society... to live liberally without harming anyone.
Cheating oneself is cheating God... if living double life is hypocrecy, aren't mist of us Hypocrites to disguise ourself.

In my opinion, there are some good reasons for removing hair. The very good reason for keeping it, is if you feel it works FOR YOU AND YOUR BODY. But the same can be said for removing it whether it is cutting the hair on your head, or the rest of the (pubic) hair on your body. It is a comfort thing for many people. My mother (not raised sikh) is quite simply NOT COMFORTABLE with long hair. Her mother tried to keep it long for years when she was growing up and my mother HATED it. I have never known her with long hair, although I have seen photos. If she is uncomfortable with long hair then I see no reason why she should be forced to keep it long and never cut it...and by default that same definition can be applied to any Sikh out there who just happens to be more comfortable, personally, in their own body, by cutting their hair. Whether or not they cut it will NOT define them and make them a better person necessarily...not if they don't want to be in their own heart.

I personally wear my hair long, however I trim it regularly to rid it of split ends. It still comes down below the middle of my back, so it is long. I have cut it short several times in life, most noticeably after having my children, each time I would cut it when they were 4-6 mos old and a) grabbing at it which was no fun b) I didn't have TIME to take care of long hair as it was either "I spend valuable time looking after my child" OR "I put down a screaming child to braid my hair"...which seemed WRONG to me, to put my child's needs behind my need to tie my hair up and c) it seemed to me that cutting my hair FINALLY triggered the necessary response in my body that made me stop shedding hair which is what usually happens after pregnancy: you lose a LOT of hair in the first few months. After I cut it really short, it stopped falling out as if I was on chemotherapy and started growing back to make me look less bald.

I also personally shave my legs and other regions. It just feels more comfortable to me personally. I FULLY respect anyone who doesn't. Their body, their choice. But I think that anyone who doesn't should also respect that it is NOT necessarily what everyone wants for their own body.

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

In my opinion, there are some good reasons for removing hair. The very good reason for keeping it, is if you feel it works FOR YOU AND YOUR BODY.

I repeat myself. To me, there is only one legitimate reason for an adult to keep kesh...because Guru has asked us to do it.

I can think of lots of reasons for keeping kesh and lots of reasons for not keeping kesh, but it all boils down to...Guru has asked us to do it.

I love Guru and I try to do what Guru asks of me. Everything else is beside the point. Yes, yes, I know I am being simplistic, but there you have it...Guru has asked us to do it and it's the one thing Guru asks of us that I can do well, without any effort at all, actually.

 

[Ishna]

Did Guru ask us to keep the kesh on our head and beard or the hair (rom) on our bodies as well?

It's such a large question mark because there isn't a clear record and no clear, logical, simple reason for the request to keep all of our body hair. It sticks out as a bit of an inconsistency with the rest of logical, purposeful Sikhi.

To me, anyway.

 

[Abneet]

Did Guru ask us to keep the kesh on our head and beard or the hair (rom) on our bodies as well?

It's such a large question mark because there isn't a clear record and no clear, logical, simple reason for the request to keep all of our body hair. It sticks out as a bit of an inconsistency with the rest of logical, purposeful Sikhi.

To me, anyway.

Bhai Nand Lal quotes Guru Gobind Singh:
"My Sikh shall not use the razor. For him the use of razor or shaving the chin shall be as sinful as incest. . . For the Khalsa such a symbol is prescribed so that a Sikh cannot remain undistinguishable from among a hundred thousand Hindus or Muslims; because how can he hide himself with hair and turban on his head and with a flowing beard?"

Guru Ji told Bhai Nand Lal the rules of conduct for a Gursikh mentioned in his work Rahit Nama. Of course Amrit Sanchar in 1699 Guru ji mentions that kesh was to be uncut.

 

[Ishna]

Thanks Abneet ji. That is clear with regard to hair on your head and your beard, but what about plucking your eyebrows and shaving your unmentionables? Is it disrespectful to extend the instruction which has a purpose (to keep Sikhs easily distinguishable from amongst the population) to mean ALL hair for no (apparent) purpose?

 

[Abneet]

Guru ji said no hair at all was to be cut.

I don't see anything wrong with plucking eyebrows or unmentionables. In my own opinion, Guru ji wouldn't care about eyebrows and even the unmentionables if your a devout Sikh in terms of doing paath, seva, and living a good life. Of course not everyone is going to agree with me.

There is a hypocrisy even in our own community when Gursikhs shun those Amritdhari women who have the courage to keep a beard or full mustache. Others give much utter respect to those women who keep God's image. So I can say its all up to the individual.

 

[illykitty]

Personally I hate shaving. Not only it takes a long time, I get cuts, my skin gets irritated and it never feels 100% smooth. Then it grows back in a few days and there's the itch! In fact, I feel a lot smoother when my hairs are grown. lol

I never understand why women have to be put through this torture to be considered "feminine" when our body hair is as natural as men's. However, not being Sikh, I go along with it... As little as possible. Only when I'm wearing something that would show those areas, like a dress.

I admire Sikh sisters who don't shave at all - no matter how little or much hair they've got. It takes courage to defy social "norms".

 

[linzer]

Bhai Nand Lal quotes Guru Gobind Singh:
"My Sikh shall not use the razor. For him the use of razor or shaving the chin shall be as sinful as incest. . . For the Khalsa such a symbol is prescribed so that a Sikh cannot remain undistinguishable from among a hundred thousand Hindus or Muslims; because how can he hide himself with hair and turban on his head and with a flowing beard?"
Thanks Abneet ji.
From which work is this quoted? Also are there any serious publications about the Hukamnamas ?

 

[Abneet]

Bhai Nand Lal quotes Guru Gobind Singh:
"My Sikh shall not use the razor. For him the use of razor or shaving the chin shall be as sinful as incest. . . For the Khalsa such a symbol is prescribed so that a Sikh cannot remain undistinguishable from among a hundred thousand Hindus or Muslims; because how can he hide himself with hair and turban on his head and with a flowing beard?"
Thanks Abneet ji.
From which work is this quoted? Also are there any serious publications about the Hukamnamas ?

There are a list of poet's works that are included in the Rehit Maryada and for this instance I'll give you a link from Bhai Nand Lal's work called Rahit Nama specifically pointing out how a Gursikh's way of life should be. There are serious publications about the hukamnamas somewhere on the internet I am positive, but I am not the most reliable person when it comes to finding authentic publications haha :whatzpointsing:

Bhai Nand Lal's Rahit Nama http://searchgurbani.com/bhai_nand_lal/rahitnama


Others work that has been contributed to Rehit Maryada:
Bhai Gur Das (not the same Bhai Gur Das of Guru Arjun’s time)
Bhai Nand Laal
Sarab Loh Parkash
Bhai Chaupa Singh
Bhai Prehlaad Singh
Bhai Daysa Singh
Bhai Daya Singh’s
Gur Sobha
Rattan Mal
Sassakhi
Vajabul Araz
Mehima Parkash
Gur Bilas
Bhai Sukha Singh
Gur Partap Suraj
Baba Sumer Singh

I am familiar with most of these names, but a few I am not very familiar with at all. I guess I am going to have study more for myself......