Sects Lets Talk About Radha Swami's

[findingmyway]

Dear seeker3k ji,

I still have a great deal to learn myself but without understanding Gurmukhi/Panjabi, understanding the Guru Granth Sahib Ji is always going to be very difficult. The translations are super helpful but meaning gets lost in translation as each language has it's own nuances. I'm sure any translator will confirm this!

My understanding from Gurbani, is that mediation is a small part if at all. More focus is given to our actions. I understand naam japna to be more than the constant recittal of Waheguru but actually living a Gursikh jeevan. I'm sure this topic has been discussed further elsewhere on this forum so I suggest looking it up. All this is written in our Guru therefore we have no need for a living Guru. Even those who have a living Guru do not necessarily act on his words so it is upto us how much we learn and apply.

 

[navnav]

I would like to emphasize a point that was made earlier “I mean any joker can wear a turban on their head and grow a beard” haha that is all too correct! This specific user was trying to say that RS believers can act like Sikhs and blah blah blah… that can be applied to sikhs as well. ANY clown can wear the 5Ks that doesn’t mean they come closer to being a good person much less a follower of Guru Nanak’s teachings.

 

[Seeker9]

I would like to emphasize a point that was made earlier “I mean any joker can wear a turban on their head and grow a beard” haha that is all too correct! This specific user was trying to say that RS believers can act like Sikhs and blah blah blah… that can be applied to sikhs as well. ANY clown can wear the 5Ks that doesn’t mean they come closer to being a good person much less a follower of Guru Nanak’s teachings.

===============================================

Dear NavNav Ji

That statement can be made for any religion and its followers

For example, an RS who does their minimum 2.5 hrs prescribed Bhajan and Simran everyday and never sniffs meat, fish, eggs or alochol let alone consume those prohibited substances, yet goes and kills somebody is still a murderer

Yet according to RS I have spoken to including official preachers, once their visa to Sachkhand has been stamped, they will definitely get there..the journey could be longer and more painful as a result of their misdeeds and karmas but they will get their nonetheless...because they have been accepted to receive Naam...their soul has been marked for transport...

Personally, I think that's a load of rubbish

 

[navnav]

yah i agree religions overall are rubbish. but now we still have to respect everyone beliefs. i think babay that put the granth sahib to sleep and check out girls at the gurdwara all day are rubbish but they too think they have the truth. what can ya do?

 

[findingmyway]

yah i agree religions overall are rubbish. but now we still have to respect everyone beliefs. i think babay that put the granth sahib to sleep and check out girls at the gurdwara all day are rubbish but they too think they have the truth. what can ya do?

Judge a religion by its teachings, not by the people who pretend to follow it

 

[seeker3k]

Dear navnav,

I am sorry if I disagree with you. Nanak never said to wear 5Ks. Nanak was called baba Nanak. So are all the babas are bad?

Findingmyway: How can we judge a religion? Any one can write good preaching and make a good speech. If the people are living against what is written and no one correct them. Then that is the religion. That’s what other will believe that is person’s religion..

I see here lot of judging of religion and babas. We have to judge our self not others. We can not stop other to live their religion unless we kill them. That is the way of some religions.
What an absurd idea that I should kill one who don’t agree with my view.

 

[findingmyway]

Dear navnav,

I am sorry if I disagree with you. Nanak never said to wear 5Ks. Nanak was called baba Nanak. So are all the babas are bad?

No they are not all completely bad but Guru Gobind Singh Ji told us to believe in the Guru Granth Sahib and nothing else. Any baba or sant who equates themselves to that status is showing a hige amount of haumai (ego) and therefore is not worthy of that position. NO-ONE can be equivalent to GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI.

Findingmyway: How can we judge a religion? Any one can write good preaching and make a good speech. If the people are living against what is written and no one correct them. Then that is the religion. That’s what other will believe that is person’s religion..

I see here lot of judging of religion and babas. We have to judge our self not others. We can not stop other to live their religion unless we kill them. That is the way of some religions.
What an absurd idea that I should kill one who don’t agree with my view.

Nobody has talked about killing here as far as I can see. If a man murders someone else and he professes to be of the christian faith do I then judge all chrsitians as bad or do i judge that he was a lone bad person among thousands? If 1 granthi behaves badly does that mean all are bad and will misbehave? If 1 radhaswami man abuses his wife and kids does that mean they all do? Of course not. It doesnt pay anyone favours including you to judge people bt putting them in boxes. There are lots of things I am unhappy with too but thats life. We should all do our bit to correct things and make sure that we ourselves don't follow the same way. Slandering others isn't going to help on your journey. Human nature is such that there will always be bad people in every community. There are also many people who do good in the name of religion but we seem to ignore those to focus on the bad!

The issue here is not a personal one against rashaswami's. It is the fact that radhaswami's cannot be Sikhs as they go against the fundamental belief of only believing in 11 Gurus and no-one is higher than Guru Granth Sahib Ji. You are welcome to follow another Guru or baba but you then should class yourself under the separate name of that baba as you are following a different religion. That will improve relations with Sikhs as they will not perceive you as distorting Gurbani and therefore there will be mutual respect for each others philosophy. It is attacks on our religion that we dislike.

 

[simranpreet5]

Seeker9 veer ji,
from all the discussions from this site we can divide us in 2 groups
1. one who r extra brillient because they dont need any help from any body because they are self capable from the time of their birth to read and understand granth sahib and the complex Gurlipi used in it.

2. Second who needs an assistance to understand the path which leads to God because either they dont understand properly the gurlipi or they wants to be more comfortable with this lipi to understand it with the help of some another human.because a human can teach another.
then what is the problem with u guys why r u keep insulting RS masters It a matter of Shame that the people like u call yourself Sikhs.You r not Sikhs you r something else but NOT SIKHS.


Simranpreet5

 

[simranpreet5]

===============================================

Dear NavNav Ji

Yet according to RS I have spoken to including official preachers, once their visa to Sachkhand has been stamped, they will definitely get there..the journey could be longer and more painful as a result of their misdeeds and karmas but they will get their nonetheless...because they have been accepted to receive Naam...their soul has been marked for transport...

Personally, I think that's a load of rubbish

Seeker9 ji
YES ALL IS TRUTH .NOTHING BUT TRUTH TRUTH
but my poor friend you can never find it weather it is truth or not unless HE (God) wants u to know.
YOU R JUST LIKE A CHILD WHO ASKS HIS MOTHER HOW HE WAS BORN AND SHE TOLD HIM ANSWERS WHAT HE CAN EASILY UNDERSTAND BUT NOT THE TRUTH BECAUSE SHE KNOW WHEN HE GROW UP HE WILL UNDERSTAND BY HIMSELF.SO MY FRIEND YOUR TIME WILL COME UNTIL THEN YOU CAN KEEP INSULTING THE OTHER MASTERS WHAT IS EXACTLY THE ONLY THING U CAN ACTUALLY DO.

Simranpreet5

 

[dalbirk]

Seeker9 veer ji,
from all the discussions from this site we can divide us in 2 groups
1. one who r extra brillient because they dont need any help from any body because they are self capable from the time of their birth to read and understand granth sahib and the complex Gurlipi used in it.

2. Second who needs an assistance to understand the path which leads to God because either they dont understand properly the gurlipi or they wants to be more comfortable with this lipi to understand it with the help of some another human.because a human can teach another.
then what is the problem with u guys why r u keep insulting RS masters It a matter of Shame that the people like u call yourself Sikhs.You r not Sikhs you r something else but NOT SIKHS.
Simranpreet5

Simarpreet Ji ,
I can assure you at least 500 to 1000 members on this site are many miles ahead of Baba Gurinder Singh ( Dhillon ) in spiritual enlightenment
If you just follow any of them diligently for one week they will provide you more enlightenment than your years at RSSB . For the time being you can start with the following link , read the first TEN PAGES ONLY .
http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0001.html
If you wish English , go to the following links
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1
http://gursoch.blogspot.com/
http://dalbirk.blogspot.com/2010/01/japu-ji-sahib.html
Try it as an experiment for just 10 pages in any one of them , you will feel liberated like you have never ever been before away from the clutches of blood sucking parasites , self dependent & self confident for whole life even becoming a light bearer to many of the fellow beings in future .

 

[findingmyway]

Seeker9 veer ji,
from all the discussions from this site we can divide us in 2 groups
1. one who r extra brillient because they dont need any help from any body because they are self capable from the time of their birth to read and understand granth sahib and the complex Gurlipi used in it.

2. Second who needs an assistance to understand the path which leads to God because either they dont understand properly the gurlipi or they wants to be more comfortable with this lipi to understand it with the help of some another human.because a human can teach another.
then what is the problem with u guys why r u keep insulting RS masters It a matter of Shame that the people like u call yourself Sikhs.You r not Sikhs you r something else but NOT SIKHS.


Simranpreet5

Using someone to help you understand Gurbani-no problem. Placing that person as equivalent to that same Gurbani is a problem. Nobody has said that people who understand with a living Guru are superior nor has it ever been said that you can;t use a person to further understanding. No-one understands Gurbani by birth. It needs work and study just like any other form of studying in school, university etc. You do not elevate your school teachers in status beyond respecting them for their knowledge so I don't see the need to elevate any person to the same level as the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I use lots of peoples help as well as other sources-this forum is using people's help so that is not the issue. The Guru Granth Sahib Ji is till the ultimate teacher, not a person as every person potentially can fall down-that is the issue. No person is perfect including me. If they say they are they are showing haumai and therefore cannot be perfect. Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not say he was perfect as shown in the shabad below from page 728. I respect your right to follow YOUR religion but please don't distort mine. Return that same respect please. Recognise the differences then the debate will move beyond emotional. It has been recognised on this thread that rashaswami's have done good things but at the end of the day your values are diffferent so you follow a different path.

ਹਮ ਨਹੀ ਚੰਗੇ ਬੁਰਾ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਾਰੇ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੧॥੨॥
Ham nahī cẖange burā nahī ko▫e. Paraṇvaṯ Nānak ṯāre so▫e. ||4||1||2||
I am not good; no one is bad. Prays Nanak, He alone saves us! ||4||1||2||

 

[simranpreet5]

Simarpreet Ji ,
I can assure you at least 500 to 1000 members on this site are many miles ahead of Baba Gurinder Singh ( Dhillon ) in spiritual enlightenment
If you just follow any of them diligently for one week they will provide you more enlightenment than your years at RSSB . For the time being you can s
Try it as an experiment for just 10 pages in any one of them , you will feel liberated like you have never ever been before away from the clutches of blood sucking parasites , self dependent & self confident for whole life even becoming a light bearer to many of the fellow beings in future .

dalbirk veer ji

SSA

I think there is only ONE HOPE for HUMANITY TO understand sikhism and RS That Are your POSTS

Haha What an IDEA Sir Ji

U r confusing everybody here.In one part u r keep telling every person that granth Sahib is a complete Guru And nobody needs anyone to understand
its teachings.
AND ON the other hand You are offering everybody your Bla Bla crap blogs and posts to understand Granth sahib.Are u telling us that your blogs and posts are more precise than Granth Sahib.Why are u not suggesting us directly for granth Sahib.You r also a human being then how could the posts written by u are more valuable than the Granth Sahib.You r trying to do the same thing which u r criticising in all your previous post.
And secondly why r u telling me to follow some suggested person's blogs does these person's blog/posts are better than Granth Sahib.These persons are also human being.
and if according to dalbirk if some posts written by dalbirk can make some person understand about Granth sahib then the satsangs by RS maharaj ji can also do the same thing. Then why r u criticisng maharaj ji when u r doing the same thing.

Plese dont try to justify
And never ever ever insult any Master who belongs to any religion because they are much much better than You
JUST PRAISE GRANTH SAHIB
DONT MAKE INSULTS FOR OTHERS(but who can make u understand because any human is not capable of making you because all are dehdharis [living-persons] and it is forbidden to listen from living persons about Granthsahib)

SO YOU R THE ONLY HOPE FOR HUMANITY

Simranpreet5

 

[simranpreet5]

Finding my way ji

Dalbirk ji pretending like
"HUM hain Change Bura har koi"

please before proceeding please tell me where it is written to insult the masters of other.OR does he have lisence to insult.What RS Maharaj ji did wrong to him.Maharaj ji never discuss persons in all satsangs.Why he is so proud of his long funny posts.


simranpreet5

 

[findingmyway]

Dear respected simranpreet5 ji,
I apologise if you have been hurt by someone's comments. Unfortunately it is easy for emotion to takeover (and I mean for all of us).

I think you may misunderstand dalbirk ji. I don't think he was trying to insult your master but merely illustrate that there are many learned people and each of us have different ways of learning so we turn to different sources. i think the important point in dalbirk ji's comments are that he does not equate his sources of learning at the same level as the Guru Granth Sahib Ji but uses them merely as an aid to help his understanding. The ultimate teacher is still the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, everything/everyone else is equivalent to a teaching aid such as a teacher in school, text book, white or balckboard, field trip etc etc. This is where Sikhs and Rashaswami's differ as you equate your master at the same level as the Guru Granth Sahib Ji therefore going against Guru Gobind Singh Ji's hukam. If that works for you fine but it is a different pathway to Sikhi. I hope that makes sense.

With mutual respect,
Jasleen.

 

[spnadmin]

simranpreet5 ji

That is quite enough sarcasm for the thread. Let's take a look at some things you criticize dalbirk ji for. The are highlighted in bold red. Then let's take that part out, and see what we are left with. Is it convincing stuff? Does it add anything to this thread that has not already been said? Do we learn from it? Do we understand RS better with the extras removed?


In red is the un-necessary sarcasm. Then let's take a look at the same thing you have written without the sarcasm.

SSA

I think there is only ONE HOPE for HUMANITY TO understand sikhism and RS That Are your POSTS

Haha What an IDEA Sir Ji

U r confusing everybody here.In one part u r keep telling every person that granth Sahib is a complete Guru And nobody needs anyone to understand
its teachings.
AND ON the other hand You are offering everybody your Bla Bla crap blogs and posts to understand Granth sahib.Are u telling us that your blogs and posts are more precise than Granth Sahib.Why are u not suggesting us directly for granth Sahib.You r also a human being then how could the posts written by u are more valuable than the Granth Sahib.You r trying to do the same thing which u r criticising in all your previous post.
And secondly why r u telling me to follow some suggested person's blogs does these person's blog/posts are better than Granth Sahib.These persons are also human being.
and if according to dalbirk if some posts written by dalbirk can make some person understand about Granth sahib then the satsangs by RS maharaj ji can also do the same thing. Then why r u criticisng maharaj ji when u r doing the same thing.

Plese dont try to justify
And never ever ever insult any Master who belongs to any religion because they are much much better than You
JUST PRAISE GRANTH SAHIB
DONT MAKE INSULTS FOR OTHERS(but who can make u understand because any human is not capable of making you because all are dehdharis [living-persons] and it is forbidden to listen from living persons about Granthsahib

Here is what you said without the sarcasm

I think there is only ONE HOPE for HUMANITY TO understand sikhism and RS That Are your POSTS

U r confusing everybody here.In one part u r keep telling every person that granth Sahib is a complete Guru And nobody needs anyone to understand
its teachings.



Are u telling us that your blogs and posts are more precise than Granth Sahib.Why are u not suggesting us directly for granth Sahib.You r also a human being then how could the posts written by u are more valuable than the Granth Sahib.You r trying to do the same thing which u r criticising in all your previous post.

And secondly why r u telling me to follow some suggested person's blogs does these person's blog/posts are better than Granth Sahib.These persons are also human being.

and if according to dalbirk if some posts written by dalbirk can make some person understand about Granth sahib then the satsangs by RS maharaj ji can also do the same thing. Then why r u criticisng maharaj ji when u r doing the same thing.



Plese dont try to justify
And never ever ever insult any Master who belongs to any religion because they are much much better than You
JUST PRAISE GRANTH SAHIB
DONT MAKE INSULTS FOR OTHERS(but who can make u understand because any human is not capable of making you because all are dehdharis [living-persons] and it is forbidden to listen from living persons about Granthsahib)

Now your comment boils down to these questions as far as I can tell. And you could instead ask dalbirk ji the questions and get answers.

1. Why do you say that Guru Granth is a complete Guru and then tell people to read your posts and lead people to blogs so they can understand better?
   
2. Why do you think the blogs and posts you have written and you have cited here give a better understanding of Guru Granth than an RS maharaj?
   
3. Why not just praise Granth Sabhii instead of insulting masters who belong to other religions? Are they not better than you?
   
4. Why do you say that living persons are not capable of making you understand Guru Granth/Aren't they dehdharis too?

When the sarcasm is removed we can see what you are asking. Maybe you will get answers that help to highlight the differences between Sikhi and RS that are not as you say "confusing" or "insulting." I think now we can see what is at the bottom of the disagreement. It is almost certain that dalbirk ji will give you a civilized answer. Let's wait for his answer before letting blood boil. Thanks.

 

[spnadmin]

Please also read the comments of findingmyway ji, because she goes a long way to explaining/answering the questions you have asked.

 

[simranpreet5]

simranpreet5 ji


When the sarcasm is removed we can see what you are asking. Maybe you will get answers that help to highlight the differences between Sikhi and RS that are not as you say "confusing" or "insulting." I think now we can see what is at the bottom of the disagreement. It is almost certain that dalbirk ji will give you a civilized answer. Let's wait for his answer before letting blood boil. Thanks.

Adminji
SSA
when he will read your above post i m dead certain that he will give a civilized answer.because in some invisible language you r telling him to be civilized. but what about some previous posts where he mentioned some neverhappened cases like rapes , murders , loots.what is the source of these
SIKHMADE NEWS.
- Some perticular newspapers running by the mainstream(so called) sikhs.
-bor some forcefully broadcasted news by some c graded channels.
- or some discussions picked from sites like this(purely ONEsided).
-or some books written by the perticular writers who r born-against RS Culture.
you can also tell me if u know some
all i have seen that u r not a neutral person. what i m saying reason behind this isYOU never forbade anyone when he say these insults to Maharaj ji but otherhand u r very good in deleting words from other's posts.
WHAT IS THE MEANING OF OPENING FORUMS ABOUT RS (LETS TALK ABOUT RADHASWAMIS)

FOR INSULTING THEM ????

DO U STILL THINK U R A SIKH (what i know about sikhs they r very civilised people they respect all religions )

GO MAN FIRST UNDERSTAND SIKHI (Until then please close this site and reopen when become civilised )

and by the way i m not here to justify RS principals .

nobody can change anybody's thinking NOBODY !

simranpreet5

 

[findingmyway]

Adminji
SSA
when he will read your above post i m dead certain that he will give a civilized answer.because in some invisible language you r telling him to be civilized. but what about some previous posts where he mentioned some neverhappened cases like rapes , murders , loots.what is the source of these
SIKHMADE NEWS.
- Some perticular newspapers running by the mainstream(so called) sikhs.
-bor some forcefully broadcasted news by some c graded channels.
- or some discussions picked from sites like this(purely ONEsided).
-or some books written by the perticular writers who r born-against RS Culture.
you can also tell me if u know some
all i have seen that u r not a neutral person. what i m saying reason behind this isYOU never forbade anyone when he say these insults to Maharaj ji but otherhand u r very good in deleting words from other's posts.
WHAT IS THE MEANING OF OPENING FORUMS ABOUT RS (LETS TALK ABOUT RADHASWAMIS)

FOR INSULTING THEM ????

DO U STILL THINK U R A SIKH (what i know about sikhs they r very civilised people they respect all religions )

GO MAN FIRST UNDERSTAND SIKHI (Until then please close this site and reopen when become civilised )

and by the way i m not here to justify RS principals .

nobody can change anybody's thinking NOBODY !

simranpreet5

Please reply without emotion so we can talk about the facts otherwise this is going to keep going round in circles. Your questions have been answered in previous posts. It is not your place to say which person understands Sikhi more and which person understands Sikhi less. Only Waheguru knows

 

[spnadmin]

simranpreet ji

If rapes and extortion on the part of a clergyman - baba or otherwise - is a proved fact, and part of a police report and news articles that follow, then there is no reason to delete such information. They become part of the knowledge base that we have to discuss the questions you have asked. And there is no reason for me to be neutral either. If extortion for example is a fact and a forum moderator mentions it, it would actually be wrong for me to be neutral about it, or pretend that it never happened.

I remember once I was called for jury duty in a federal court. One of the lawyers struck me from the list of possible jurors in his case because, when he asked if there was anyone among the jurors who was biased AGAINST arson, I raised my hand. Of course I am biased against some things, and I would have it no other way.

And if rape, etc. is true, can be proved, is part of a police report, then dalbirk ji is not engaging in malicious gossip, nor in insults. dalbirk ji has a moral duty to inform others. It would be wrong not to.

So now we are back to the center of the debate once more. In all religions, there are leaders who are crooks. No one disputes that. You have still not explained why a babaji is needed to lead us to the truth.

You are not debating issues. Rather you are looking for reasons to discredit those who disagree with you. That is a dodge on your part.

 

[simranpreet5]

explain admin ji explain
WHICH police report and how did dalbirk reached these reports.
only saying POLICE REPORTs will not justify your statement

anybody can (with false intention) reach to a police station and can register A police report about a rape ,about a false theft (ie 2 million are stollen). even i can register a police report against you and u against me.it never proves it happened .
JUST GIVE SOME SOLID PROOFS
OR HONESTLY BE SORRY.

Now do your homework
not for me
for others who r reading this post

simranpreet5

c u tomorrow:happysingh: