- Jan 31, 2011
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My wife is quite reasonable, I tried this on her, and used your statement to defend myself, it didn't work.........lol
Christianity Losing My Religion: Why I'm Raising My Child To Believe In Science, Not God
My wife is quite reasonable, I tried this on her, and used your statement to defend myself, it didn't work.........lol
SSA harry haller
I am sure your wife is reasonable lady. But I doubt about you.
Why would you say to your wife to shut your mouth? Do you just want to antagonize her to check if my statement is right? Is that being reasonable thing to do? Did you tell her that some one at SPN said this so I want to see how you feel?
I have no answer to that.
- Jan 31, 2011
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Are you asking me, or yourself?
SSA Seekr3 ji,
Perhaps i picked the wrong end of the stick and if you say no offense was intended..i accept. But I am indeed surprised that the sheer number of emails and PMs that have flooded my inbox...also took "offense" at the order "Shut Up". I take this to mean that...anger or not offense intended or not..its a rude way to tell some one off. Anyway water under the bridge..and the dead fish went with it..so lets move on..
2. You are right..Bhai Gurdass Ji wanst there..perhaps you like to beleive in the Bhai Balas janamsakhi ( Who also WASNT THERE BUT wants us to make beleive he was )...well Bala aslo mentions the Sidhs by NAME..that is WHO asked WHICH Particular Question and Guru nanak ji addressed the ANSWER by NAME..example SUNN MACHHINDRA..LISTEN MACHHINDRA !! etc etc.
Historically the Sidhs also gatehred at an annual Mela..and Guru nanak ji also Traveleld up into the Himalayan Mountains Tibet, ladakh, etc...and He went there to MEET people..NOT watch the Yaks eating Grass. ( By the way the YAK is the animal whose TAIL gets made into the CHAURS sikhs love to wave over the SGGS while sanctifyingly claiming they are vegetarians who wont even touch leather skins meat etc..but they have no qualms waving a cows tail over the SGGS, or using Goat skin tablas etc in SGGS presence). The MOTIVE behind the viist was to inform the sidhdes yogis who had left their HOMES in religious sanctifyingly self sacrifice that their action was WRONG. God is NOT where they think he is...He is INSIDE.
Guru nanak ji had a TWIN objective in His travels..He met assembled crowds at melas/hardwaar/mecca etc..and He also met INDIVIDUALS..small groups one on one...in MULTAN he met groups of pirs and such to debate (NOT ARGUE !! or SHUT UP any one). There is a difference !!
3. SACH KHAND is a STAGE..not a physical place...and thus the NirAkar can live quite fine in a Nir akar STATE...Bhai Gurdass Ji is 110% RIGHT that Nirankaar is in SACH KHAND..where- ever (Even in a so called "Supreme Court" for example.) .where SACH REIGNS SUPREME...) Nirankaar is always in SACH(KHAND) becaseu He is SACH...and where ever its JHOOTH FRAUD.....LIES.. False wittnesses..Lying prosecutions..*even in a supreme court...NIRANKAAR is ABSENT. and so is JUSTICE.....and its "supreme" only in name.
4. GURBANI is Ilahi Dhur Ki bani and its meanings go deep..deeper than the deepest oceans..its not and never was a poem...and its All time SACH...we Sikhs look to extraneous sources like janamsakhis and bhai Gurdass jis works etc to "understand" Gurbani....not authenticate it. The Authentication part is SGGS itself. Bani GURU..GURU hai BANI..vich Bani Amrit SAREH is self explanatory.
SSA,
If you read my posts I always put Nanak at the highest state. But it is where people are misleading what Nanak said that is bothering me. They know no one can see God yet they keep telling me that they have seen God.
Bhai Gurdas also said in his writing that nirakr took birth as Nanak. That goes against what Nanak said that he can not take birth nor can he die.
You do not believe in heaven. In Anad sahib there is sloke paria rag-ratan gavan aiean Do we should believe Guru Amardas that the parian are real they came to sing when he took Agan dev as guru?
I do not believe there are parian. No matter who tell me that they are real.
We have to use logic not blind faith that glorify our Guru.
Veera What if someone says keep your mouth shut instead? Just discussing with my self,no one else here.
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Telling someone to keep their mouth shut can be good words of wisdom !!
My father used to always tell me that to get far in this world it is important to -
- Keep your Eyes and Ears open, whilst keeping your Mouth Shut !!
This way you shall be able to work out peoples true intentions before they try and get the better of you !
My father used to always tell me that to get far in this world it is important to -
- Keep your Eyes and Ears open, whilst keeping your Mouth Shut !!
This way you shall be able to work out peoples true intentions before they try and get the better of you !
Veera if we want too teach our children wisely ,it is to speak respectfully to their elders,if we tell others to shut up that's not very scientific.
Lucky ji intentions are just inner tensions.
Scientists and Scholars are always softly spoken and so they are Wise men.
Some phrases carry negatives connotations which we cannot pass off as readers bias.
Lucky ji intentions are just inner tensions.
Scientists and Scholars are always softly spoken and so they are Wise men.
Some phrases carry negatives connotations which we cannot pass off as readers bias.
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seeker3k ji
I overlooked the above because in my opinion you appeared to be speaking in general terms.... to some hypothetical person who has not seen God should "keep mouth shut." But I apparently was in the minority. There were many who objected to this statement because it is rude, disrespectful and uncalled for. You alone know if you were thinking aloud in general terms, or whether you were personally rebuking Gyani ji.
I have myself made it clear to Gyani ji that my interpretation may have put me in the wrong. Perhaps I should have intervened and even deleted your comments immediately. Only you know if it was your intention to address these words directly to Gyani ji. If that is the case, you need to make amends through a sincere explanation and/or apology. If you were not speaking directly to him, you need to make that crystal clear.
SSA,
Spnadmin,
You have the authority to delete what is not right to the rules of SPN.
I find it typical Indian attitude that when man is knocked down every one start kicking him. Even passer by will kick him.
I have said sorry that I said that. Yet every one is still kicking me. Here in Canada when white people have fought each other. If one says sorry the other person accepts his apology. That is the end of the matter. But here it will be lingering on for ever.
Like I said after that Nanak said god can not be seen he has no akar. Then why do these so called scholars of Sikhism keep saying yes they have seen God? Is it not a insult to Nanak who said that he has no akar. What did these people see. It is ok to say they see God’s work so they believe that there is God. But those who don’t see it that way it is their privilege to say there is no God because they looking for body or some kind of solid proof.
Maybe they believe what bhai Gurdas said in his vaar that God took birth as Nanak in body. Christians believe that Jesus is son of god to counter that Bhai Gurdas claimed that God him self came down as Nanak.
The whole thing who claims they have seen or heard god is not true. You and most people know that yet just for the argument sake they are claiming it.
- Jul 20, 2012
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Perhaps they mean to 'see God' as in they have experienced God or understand that there IS a God (as opposed to just blind belief or faith - because there IS a difference!!!)... Akin to the saying 'I have seen the light' when people say that they don't mean they literally saw a light bulb... they say that to mean that they just understood some truth...
God is formless, and beyond physical... we are told that right from the Mool Mantar... so how could we literally 'see' something with our physical eyes that is not physical? We can't... therefore, when we 'see' God we mean we see the evidence, or experience it, and come to understand without a doubt that God does exist. That is different than just believing that there is a God.
Dear akasha Ji,
You have explained it very nicely.
No one can see light one can see some thing that light is shine on that object. When earth come in line with sun the rays hit trees and other thing and on us too we see what light hit. In space there is dark yes sun rays are coming through space yet there is dark. Because there is nothing in space
I still have problem of "experienced God" As far as I believe it is just imagination. Just our mind playing tricks. It like when one is separated from the one we love. We are day dreaming and we talk with them we see them. But it is not real. It is all in mind.
If there people who claim that they had experience of God in fact it is just a day dream.
Nanak at the end of mool mantar says it is by guruparsad? What is in mool mantar that guru gave Nanak as parsad? Is it just to just understand the mool mantar? Nanak put guru forfront in his poems. Then he says to do simran. What did he mean my simran. All these bani were not composed then yet he says to do simran. Those who believe it is good for them. But I like to know more. There is more to just reading guide. So far I have not found in SGGS any direction to simran what?
Any way this is going away from the topic. Sorry for that I will try to stay in topic.
You have explained it very nicely.
No one can see light one can see some thing that light is shine on that object. When earth come in line with sun the rays hit trees and other thing and on us too we see what light hit. In space there is dark yes sun rays are coming through space yet there is dark. Because there is nothing in space
I still have problem of "experienced God" As far as I believe it is just imagination. Just our mind playing tricks. It like when one is separated from the one we love. We are day dreaming and we talk with them we see them. But it is not real. It is all in mind.
If there people who claim that they had experience of God in fact it is just a day dream.
Nanak at the end of mool mantar says it is by guruparsad? What is in mool mantar that guru gave Nanak as parsad? Is it just to just understand the mool mantar? Nanak put guru forfront in his poems. Then he says to do simran. What did he mean my simran. All these bani were not composed then yet he says to do simran. Those who believe it is good for them. But I like to know more. There is more to just reading guide. So far I have not found in SGGS any direction to simran what?
Any way this is going away from the topic. Sorry for that I will try to stay in topic.
SSA
I don’t think we can loose our kids to science. In fact we can make them good citizen by encouraging our kids to learn science. Just a small experience I wish to share with any one who wants to read.
I have many good friends here in Canada they are from many religions. One day one of my friends called me to fix his washing machine. I went and fixed it. After that we sat and his wife brought tea for us. The talk turns to kid’s education. He asked me about my 2 kids. They were about same as his 2kids. I said after primary school now they are in Catholic school. He asked me why put them in Catholic school? I said their school took kids those were age to leave to middle school. My daughter also went with group to see school and met teachers and principal of the school. After she went to few schools she chose the Catholic school. She like the principal and teachers. Plus it was close to home they can walk to school.
My friend said we are Sikhs we should not put them our kids in Catholic school. They may become Catholic. Going back a bit
When kids were small we use to take them to gurdwara, mander, and church.. Muslim do not allow none muslim to join in namaz so we could not go there.
I had many books on most religion. We use to discuss religion and spirituality most every day. My daughter was very curious about religion. Son was not into it.
Getting back to the topic. Friend said but in Catholic they push religion they can influence kids to be come Catholic. I said I have no problem if they want to become Catholic. There is only one God what is the difference if the have different name.
He said it will be the biggest mistake if my kids become Catholic.
I said let me ask you some thing. Ask he said. You are Sikh and as I know your father is also Sikh. Yes he said. What about you’re grand father and his father were they Sikh too? He said my grand father was Sikh too but not sure about great grand father. So they maybe Hindu before that. He said I think so. So then he made his biggest mistake to become Sikh. He said no,no he did not made the mistake. He did the right thing. Well then how can you say your kids will make biggest mistake if they change? They are making right decision to change from Sikhism. My friend had time explaining what he got into.
When we teach kids science they can knowledge about reality. They will be prepared for any one trying to miss guides them. Learning science is good thing to learn. Science is based on facts not on dream. I gave them enough education that they can make right decision what ever they will chose.
Both of my kids are not into religion ( I am glad for that). They are good human.
We lived in bad part of city where kids used drugs. My kids grew up with them but my kids never used any kind of drugs. They don’t even drink tea and coffee. It is not the company one keep that get them in to bad things. It is how they have been raised. I am not taking any credit for that I just did what every parent want to do for their kids.
I always told them learn and investigate before you get into any thing. Things are not what they seem from distant.
So let kids learn and let them make the right decision. If one has not taught their kids to the age of 9 then there is no help to remold them. I know so many will give other examples that people changed in later age. So be it Just think about your kids.
I don’t think we can loose our kids to science. In fact we can make them good citizen by encouraging our kids to learn science. Just a small experience I wish to share with any one who wants to read.
I have many good friends here in Canada they are from many religions. One day one of my friends called me to fix his washing machine. I went and fixed it. After that we sat and his wife brought tea for us. The talk turns to kid’s education. He asked me about my 2 kids. They were about same as his 2kids. I said after primary school now they are in Catholic school. He asked me why put them in Catholic school? I said their school took kids those were age to leave to middle school. My daughter also went with group to see school and met teachers and principal of the school. After she went to few schools she chose the Catholic school. She like the principal and teachers. Plus it was close to home they can walk to school.
My friend said we are Sikhs we should not put them our kids in Catholic school. They may become Catholic. Going back a bit
When kids were small we use to take them to gurdwara, mander, and church.. Muslim do not allow none muslim to join in namaz so we could not go there.
I had many books on most religion. We use to discuss religion and spirituality most every day. My daughter was very curious about religion. Son was not into it.
Getting back to the topic. Friend said but in Catholic they push religion they can influence kids to be come Catholic. I said I have no problem if they want to become Catholic. There is only one God what is the difference if the have different name.
He said it will be the biggest mistake if my kids become Catholic.
I said let me ask you some thing. Ask he said. You are Sikh and as I know your father is also Sikh. Yes he said. What about you’re grand father and his father were they Sikh too? He said my grand father was Sikh too but not sure about great grand father. So they maybe Hindu before that. He said I think so. So then he made his biggest mistake to become Sikh. He said no,no he did not made the mistake. He did the right thing. Well then how can you say your kids will make biggest mistake if they change? They are making right decision to change from Sikhism. My friend had time explaining what he got into.
When we teach kids science they can knowledge about reality. They will be prepared for any one trying to miss guides them. Learning science is good thing to learn. Science is based on facts not on dream. I gave them enough education that they can make right decision what ever they will chose.
Both of my kids are not into religion ( I am glad for that). They are good human.
We lived in bad part of city where kids used drugs. My kids grew up with them but my kids never used any kind of drugs. They don’t even drink tea and coffee. It is not the company one keep that get them in to bad things. It is how they have been raised. I am not taking any credit for that I just did what every parent want to do for their kids.
I always told them learn and investigate before you get into any thing. Things are not what they seem from distant.
So let kids learn and let them make the right decision. If one has not taught their kids to the age of 9 then there is no help to remold them. I know so many will give other examples that people changed in later age. So be it Just think about your kids.
Try meditating, Honestly !!
You may be surprised when you see the light !
You really have to search within if you feel stuck on a crossroads.
I'm not sure if you are familiar with Sargun and Nirgun which refer to the form and formless attributes of Waheguru.
I have come to understand that gurbani explains about the nirgun(formless) qualities of God. Most of these are what you have already stated previously, however Guruji also explained to us an important manifestation of the sargun roop ?
I feel that he left us with 'Guru Maneyo granth'
This to me tells me that a sargun manifestation of him is with us or the Word of God is how to better define this.
There is a we, us, me and you in our physical form/roop of our human body. Consider the Guru Granth Sahib ji as the body of the Guru that contains the same nirgun jyot as in Guru.
is this a JOKE ?? not really..
An atheist was seated next to a little girl on an airplane and he turned to her and said, "Do you want to talk? Flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger."
The little girl, who had just started to read her book, replied to the total stranger, "What would you want to talk about?"
"Oh, I don't know," said the atheist. "How about why there is no God, or no Heaven or Hell, or no life after death?" as he smiled smugly.
"Okay," she said. "Those could be interesting topics but let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff - grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, but a horse produces clumps. Why do you suppose that is?"
The atheist, visibly surprised by the little girl's intelligence, thinks about it and says, "Hmmm, I have no idea." To which the little girl replies, "Do you really feel qualified to discuss God, Heaven and Hell, or life after death, when you don't know ****?"
And then she went back to reading her book.
An atheist was seated next to a little girl on an airplane and he turned to her and said, "Do you want to talk? Flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger."
The little girl, who had just started to read her book, replied to the total stranger, "What would you want to talk about?"
"Oh, I don't know," said the atheist. "How about why there is no God, or no Heaven or Hell, or no life after death?" as he smiled smugly.
"Okay," she said. "Those could be interesting topics but let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff - grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, but a horse produces clumps. Why do you suppose that is?"
The atheist, visibly surprised by the little girl's intelligence, thinks about it and says, "Hmmm, I have no idea." To which the little girl replies, "Do you really feel qualified to discuss God, Heaven and Hell, or life after death, when you don't know ****?"
And then she went back to reading her book.
If the mind is real,then that feeling of love is real,what if pondering about dreams is part of the day dream,it is all in the mind but what is the mind.
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An believer was seated next to a little girl on an airplane and he turned to her and said, "Do you want to talk? Flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger."
The little girl, who had just started to read her book, replied to the total stranger, "What would you want to talk about?"
"Oh, I don't know," said the believer. "How about God and Heaven and Hell and life after death?" as he smiled smugly.
"Okay," she said. "Those could be interesting topics but let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff - grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, but a horse produces clumps. Why do you suppose that is?"
The believer, visibly surprised by the little girl's intelligence, thinks about it and says, "Hmmm, I have no idea." To which the little girl replies, "Do you really feel qualified to discuss God, Heaven and Hell, or life after death, when you don't know ****?"
And then she went back to reading her book.
It works equally well both ways, I think.:gingerteakaur:
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- Jan 31, 2011
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- 55
A vet was seated next to a little girl on an airplane and he turned to her and said, "Do you want to talk? Flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger."
The little girl, who had just started to read her book, replied to the total stranger, "What would you want to talk about?"
"Oh, I don't know," said the vet. "How about God and Heaven and Hell and life after death?" as he smiled smugly.
"Okay," she said. "Those could be interesting topics but let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff - grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, but a horse produces clumps. Why do you suppose that is?"
uhm actually it gets a bit predictable from this point
The little girl, who had just started to read her book, replied to the total stranger, "What would you want to talk about?"
"Oh, I don't know," said the vet. "How about God and Heaven and Hell and life after death?" as he smiled smugly.
"Okay," she said. "Those could be interesting topics but let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff - grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, but a horse produces clumps. Why do you suppose that is?"
uhm actually it gets a bit predictable from this point
arshdeep88
SPNer
- Mar 13, 2013
- 312
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Why bhai gurdass ji calls Guru Nanak as God?
my understanding
imagine a situation ,hypocrisy at its best in society
rituals ,crimes being done in the name of religion and to satisfy so called GODS.
Rapes,Murders ,theft ,robbery all in the name of religion
Poor people who are more into their lives and hard work than to worship gods are being tortured in the name of religion maybe asking what wrong we had done to face such a wrath from the so called GODS of such religious people.
Poor Lady whose husband died due to circumstances had to set herself fire in the name of SATI and many countless rituals.
At that time Guru Nanak was born ,and with his very common sense ,courage and his wisdom he took on such hypocrisy.Fearless was he ever.
He showed the path to many people and showed how true service is to be done,how love for equality and fellow beings are the best deeds if to be done in the name of religion.
Bhai Gurdass Ji acknowledges all this for Guru Nanak,out of love of highest order for Guru Nanak Dev Mahraj he says so.
Many youngsters call each other love partners as "RABB",some call their fathers,mothers as GOD.
There is even a famous quote which says "i havent seen GOD but i have seen MOTHER.
my understanding says that calling Guru nanak dev ji god is just an expression out of love nothing else.
In Guru Granth Sahib Ji Guru Nanak Dev ji humbly calls himself servant ,never makes such statement.
Sorry if i say something wrong,pardon my unintentional mistakes
Here a song by rahat fateh ali khan acknowledging mothers more than GOD
Rab Kehn Nalo Pehla Maa Kehna Sikhya - YouTube
my understanding
imagine a situation ,hypocrisy at its best in society
rituals ,crimes being done in the name of religion and to satisfy so called GODS.
Rapes,Murders ,theft ,robbery all in the name of religion
Poor people who are more into their lives and hard work than to worship gods are being tortured in the name of religion maybe asking what wrong we had done to face such a wrath from the so called GODS of such religious people.
Poor Lady whose husband died due to circumstances had to set herself fire in the name of SATI and many countless rituals.
At that time Guru Nanak was born ,and with his very common sense ,courage and his wisdom he took on such hypocrisy.Fearless was he ever.
He showed the path to many people and showed how true service is to be done,how love for equality and fellow beings are the best deeds if to be done in the name of religion.
Bhai Gurdass Ji acknowledges all this for Guru Nanak,out of love of highest order for Guru Nanak Dev Mahraj he says so.
Many youngsters call each other love partners as "RABB",some call their fathers,mothers as GOD.
There is even a famous quote which says "i havent seen GOD but i have seen MOTHER.
my understanding says that calling Guru nanak dev ji god is just an expression out of love nothing else.
In Guru Granth Sahib Ji Guru Nanak Dev ji humbly calls himself servant ,never makes such statement.
Sorry if i say something wrong,pardon my unintentional mistakes
Here a song by rahat fateh ali khan acknowledging mothers more than GOD
Rab Kehn Nalo Pehla Maa Kehna Sikhya - YouTube
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