Meaning Of This Shabad Please Ang 388

[Astroboy]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

Unless we are able to understand that NAME is not NAAMu.It is rather impossible to realise the significance of this Unique pair of word "Hari.Hari"

Prakash.S.Bagga

What do you wish to say - in English please. Of course, you are at the liberty to say what you wish to, in many different ways. But please do attempt to do so in simpler language.

What do you mean when you say Naamu is not Name.
Don't feel shy to elaborate.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

Passingby ji my understanding of the sabad,

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Āsā mėhlā 5.
ਆਸਾ ਪੰਜਵੀਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ।
Raag Assa Guru Arjan Dev ji

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਅਖਰ ਦੁਇ ਇਹ ਮਾਲਾ ॥ ਜਪਤ ਜਪਤ ਭਏ ਦੀਨ ਦਇਆਲਾ ॥੧॥
Har har akẖar ḏu▫e ih mālā. Japaṯ japaṯ bẖa▫e ḏīn ḏa▫i▫ālā. ||1||
The rosary is of the creator’s praise. The benevolent creator blesses the poor who so contemplate.

ਕਰਉ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਅਪੁਨੀ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਸਰਣਾਈ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਦੇਹੁ ਹਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਨੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Kara▫o benṯī saṯgur apunī. Kar kirpā rākẖo sarṇā▫ī mo ka▫o ḏeh hare har japnī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
I offer my request to my eternal creator. Through benevolence please give me haven and enable me to sing the praise of the creator.

ਹਰਿ ਮਾਲਾ ਉਰ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਧਾਰੈ ॥ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਕਾ ਦੂਖੁ ਨਿਵਾਰੈ ॥੨॥
Har mālā ur anṯar ḏẖārai. Janam maraṇ kā ḏūkẖ nivārai. ||2||
One who keeps the rosary of creator’s praise in the heart. Finds salvation from pain of life and death.

ਹਿਰਦੈ ਸਮਾਲੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਬੋਲੈ ॥ ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਇਤ ਉਤ ਕਤਹਿ ਨ ਡੋਲੈ ॥੩॥
Hirḏai samālai mukẖ har har bolai. So jan iṯ uṯ kaṯėh na dolai. ||3||
Keeping in the heart and speaking of the creator’s praise
Such humble one does not ever waiver.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜੋ ਰਾਚੈ ਨਾਇ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਲਾ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਜਾਇ ॥੪॥੧੯॥੭੦॥
Kaho Nānak jo rācẖai nā▫e. Har mālā ṯā kai sang jā▫e. ||4||19||70||

Nanak says, one imbued in creator’s understanding. Rosary of creator’s praises accompanies one such.

ESSENCE: Guru ji say real rosary is made of creator’s praises and is a source of creator’s blessing.Guru ji so request the capability to carry on the contemplation with such a rosary. When such a rosary resides in the heart one says praises of the creator and does not waiver.

Guru ji state that this is the rosary that is real and accompanies you everywhere and at all times.

Above example of a Christian Rosary with a Cross.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

What do you wish to say - in English please. Of course, you are at the liberty to say what you wish to, in many different ways. But please do attempt to do so in simpler language.

What do you mean when you say Naamu is not Name.
Don't feel shy to elaborate.

Naam is such a huge and wide suggestion or word that is not easy to define in a few sentences. It is itself a HUGE concept.
Just as the Guru Granth Sahib Ji starts with 'ek onkaar' and then goes on to explain this, so to say. We can't go on to explain in simple words what 'naam' is.
I think it's about understanding 'naam' rather than trying to know or define it.

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

From Ambarsaria's above post

ESSENCE: Guru ji say real rosary is made of creator’s praises and is a source of creator’s blessing.Guru ji so request the capability to carry on the contemplation with such a rosary. When such a rosary resides in the heart one says praises of the creator and does not waiver.

Guru ji state that this is the rosary that is real and accompanies you everywhere and at all times.




I think the essence sums it up quite nicely.
-'the Mala within'

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

There are a few issues to be addressed here.

First issue -
Elsewhere, especially verses of the 4th Guru mention Har Har many times over. So it may seem that Har Har chanting is more important than Vaheguru chanting. Because more is mentioned about Har Har than Vaheguru Vaheguru.

The second issue -
Gurbani does not stress on words like Har Har (like a power mantra of some sort) because there are so many other names of God prescribed in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Third Issue -
The 5th Guru said 'Satnam' tera para purbala...
So does that mean we should give more importance to Satnam than any other word?

I don't think words come before the experience, so to speak. Guru's wrote gurbani thru direct experiences. The written word is an attempt to express the real experience. The written word is a motivation for us to work thru towards spiritual experiences.

Anybody with spiritual experiences who want to share?

Jios,

1. Gurbanee is personal experience of the Creator - each writer expresses this in his own way - multiple ways and multiple authors ...means we can pick and choose ....BUT the Ultimate Bottom Line is the SAME and in line with what Guru Nannak ji sahib showed. There is no deviation form that.

2. After we understand the above, we are encouraged to..be so immersed in Gurbanee that we BECOME GURBANNEE....this is the ultimate peak of exhilaration

3. Examples in Gurbanee..Guru Arjun Ji says..while Japping Ram Ram Ram...i became so immersed in Ram that ordinary people also noticed a change and began calling ME - RAMDASS.....the Servant of Ram !!. This SHABAD alone serves to DISPELL clearly and unequivocally the notion some misguided ones have about the Shaabd Raamdaass sarovar nahteh..as a pointer to GURU RAMDASS jis built sarovar of WATER in Amrtisar !! and having a physical cleansing session in that water as being encouraged. The "RAMDASS" in the Shabad is a PLURAL for SANGAT and NOT a Singular proper Noun for the Fourth GURU. Guru Arjun Ji is the SON of Guru Ramdass Ji and its impossible for him to be "Ramdass" as well ( in name) BUT BOTH are "Ramdass"..servants of RAM the CREATOR just as much as any of us can be.

4. Ambarsraiah ji is right about the words and multiple meanings..thats why CONTEXT is Vital. One "meaning" cannot be applied everywhere. In a deeply spiritual "meaning" sort of way..Har as in Green tree and Har as in everyone..etc etc "CAN" be taken to be Har the Creator becasue ultimatley HE is in the Green tree..( He causes it to be Green haria hoyah )..He is in "everyone" as well and thats precisely why Guur Arjun ji declares None is my enemy..none a stranger..all are my brothers ( even Jehangir the Emperor who gave the order to roast Guru Arjun Ji alive and boil him alive as well - Guru Arjun ji declares..Dosh na kahoon devohn..i dont blame anyone for my "troubles" but only Beg for YOUR Bhanna to be endured with Love and sweetness..) So in a PRACTICAL WAY Guru Arjun ji has showed us all that HAR is Jehangir, Har is the Fire under the hot plate, Har is the hot water, Har is Chandu, Har is Mian Mir....HAR HAR HAR...there is no "difference" except in OUR EYES and Beleifs !! UNTIL we Come to that STAGE in which GURU ARJUN JI is...we will continue to see differently...and thats what is meant by BECOMING GURBANEE because....
Bani GURU...GURU Hai BANI...vich Bani amrit sareh....is the PRACTICAL WAY to reach that ultimate peak...wherein OUR Physical body becomes hte RECEPTACLE of ALL AMRIT !!..as shown by all our MARTYRS like Bhai mani Singh, Bhai deep Singh, Bhai banda singh bahadur etc etc...

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

What do you wish to say - in English please. Of course, you are at the liberty to say what you wish to, in many different ways. But please do attempt to do so in simpler language.

What do you mean when you say Naamu is not Name.
Don't feel shy to elaborate.

You can see for yourself that the proper word for NAME in Gurbanee is NAAu not NAAMu.
You may pl let me what do you mean by simpler language I would consider that too.
Why I should shy when I feel GuRu is always with me.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

Naam is such a huge and wide suggestion or word that is not easy to define in a few sentences. It is itself a HUGE concept.
Just as the Guru Granth Sahib Ji starts with 'ek onkaar' and then goes on to explain this, so to say. We can't go on to explain in simple words what 'naam' is.
I think it's about understanding 'naam' rather than trying to know or define it.

I would certainly agree to the last kine of your message.
Would you please make me clear how understanding is different from knowing and defining.?
My understanding is otherwise I think you can understand what you know and define.How one can understand anything which can not be known and defined.?

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

Naam is such a huge and wide suggestion or word that is not easy to define in a few sentences. It is itself a HUGE concept.
Just as the Guru Granth Sahib Ji starts with 'ek onkaar' and then goes on to explain this, so to say. We can't go on to explain in simple words what 'naam' is.
I think it's about understanding 'naam' rather than trying to know or define it.

one could even say it is about experiencing Naam, living Naam, the ultimate in consonance and connection

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

It is astonishing to see that persons can understand,experience and live in consonance with something unkown.Such persons are really great and blessed.

Prakash.s.bagga

 

[Archived_member15]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

It is astonishing to see that persons can understand,experience and live in consonance with something unkown.Such persons are really great and blessed.

Prakash.s.bagga

"...I was left there so absorbed,
so entranced, and so removed,
that my senses were abroad,
robbed of all sensation proved,
and my spirit then was moved
with an unknown knowing,
all knowledge there transcending..."


- Saint John of the Cross (1542 – 1591),
Verses on the Ecstasy of Deep Contemplation,
Catholic mystic and Doctor of the Church


For me this is the best description of what you describe as, "understand,experience and live in consonance with something unkown". All of the saints and mystics of the world religions have experienced this but there is something about Saint John of the Cross' articulation of it that makes it so very meaningful to me.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

Prakash.S.Bagga ji thanks for your post but one comment.

It is astonishing to see that persons can understand,experience and live in consonance with something unkown.Such persons are really great and blessed. Prakash.s.bagga

Guru ji and all in SGGS repeatedly tell us in the simplest and most straightforward way that one creator is infinite. The virtues and attributes are infinite. So don't set an objective to either want to know all or try to know all or try to describe all. You can always live in consonance with what you know at any point in time. The objective set in the SGGS is to try to recognize more (not all), and thus continuously live better and in better understanding of the creator and better consonance with creation.

If one gets nothing else from SGGS, that is the message and understanding to take away.

I hope this simple message you have absorbed. I hope knowing and understanding all is not your thrust and that is not why you keep showing astonishment like in the post above.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

AMBARSARIA Ji,
You have totally miscontrued my message.
I am greatly impressed by the wordings of the message of Mr VOUTHON as

"My spirit then was moved with an unknown knowing,"

This very cleary tells that ...Having known the unknown ...my spirit then was moved.
Obviously Knowing is forst and prime condition for understanding,experiencing and being in consonance with the known.
My understanding goes like as given.I think My VOUTHON would be able to throw some more light in such understanding.
Prakash.s.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

AMBARSARIA Ji,
You have totally miscontrued my message.
I am greatly impressed by the wordings of the message of Mr VOUTHON as

"My spirit then was moved with an unknown knowing,"

This very cleary tells that ...Having known the unknown ...my spirit then was moved.
Obviously Knowing is forst and prime condition for understanding,experiencing and being in consonance with the known.
My understanding goes like as given.I think My VOUTHON would be able to throw some more light in such understanding.
Prakash.s.Bagga

Prakash.S.Bagga ji my message is quite generic. Sorry it happens to come out as reference to what you wrote.

It referes to the pursuit of knowing all and some actually giving you a potion, a book, a rosary, a "Naam", a "WORD", etc., as a way to get it all as they walk to the Bank or turn you into a slave, disciple or follower.

So in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and in our Guru ji's teachings there is great direction so that we may neither seek nor be so mislead or lied to or be taken in.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

We should always try to know and stick to the great direction What GuRu ji is giving us.
Are we really doing that.?
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

I would certainly agree to the last kine of your message.
Would you please make me clear how understanding is different from knowing and defining.?
My understanding is otherwise I think you can understand what you know and define.How one can understand anything which can not be known and defined.?

Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakashji,
Understanding is different from knowing, this is confusing you maybe, but it's not too difficult, I think.

Understanding the lord's creation is a reason why we are on this forum.
We understand that there is a One Almighty. But we don't know him or it, we know of this creator. Do you follow this ?
In the same way, we understand Guru Nanak's message and teachings, or we try to understand. BUT, we don't know him, we don't liase with him. We could never know what his actions or next steps would be even if we were in that time era, could we.
His teachings, his work, is what is important and ALL we need to know. Knowing him or knowing which side of the bed he gets out is not important and we would never know..
Do you understand what I mean ?
In the same way this is what I was saying about 'naam'
It's the understanding that is important, not the chasing to know exactly what it is. It's a huge concept, like I said.

I think may be you get confused with this grammar and vocab as you seem to try and define and 'know' the WORD.
When, I think, all we need is to UNDERSTAND not 'KNOW' of it as such.
This is just my view of where I think your approach sometimes may seem unnecessary to others as they may feel that they 'understand' without applying your theoritical approach.This is how I have said earlier that I feel.. I get the same message and essence from bani wether I use your approach or not, maybe it's just me!!!
**This is just my personal opinion, bhul chuk marf***

Waheguru
Lucky Singh

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

LUCKY SINGH Ji,
I agree with your the concept of understanding and knowing.We may understand but we may not be knowing as with the teachings of GuRu Nanak ji as example.
The above concept is applicable when we take into consideration Guru Nanak in physical Form and his teachings as different.
But in context of Gurbanee the situation is entirely different, here one can know Guru Nanak as well as teachings of Nanak.
This is smething different from what we generally think.?
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

The word Hari.Hari" has been used by every Guru and Every Bhgat and even by Bhats in their contribution of Banee.
In the very first Raagu M 1 we can see this word as
ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਹੁ ਪਿਆਰਿਆ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਲੇ ਹਰਿ ਬੋਲਿ ॥ ਮਨੁ ਸਚ ਕਸਵਟੀ ਲਾਈਐ ਤੁਲੀਐ ਪੂਰੈ ਤੋਲਿ ॥ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਰਿਦ ਮਾਣਕ ਮੋਲਿ ਅਮੋਲਿ ॥੧॥ ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਹੀਰਾ ਗੁਰ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਲਾਹਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

It is true that this word "Hari.Hari" is profusely used by 4th Nanak.

We should look for a reasonable reason for this. isnt that necessary?

Unless we are able to understand that NAME is not NAAMu.It is rather impossible to realise the significance of this Unique pair of word "Hari.Hari"

Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash Ji,

Let me then start the ball rolling by asking for the meaning of Har Har Simrou Sant Gopala: SGGS Page 617 Line 13
It seems that Har Har is not used for rhyming the shabads as clearly seen in this particular verse. So its uniqueness has to have a deeper meaning or purpose. What could that be?

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

Prakash Ji,

Let me then start the ball rolling by asking for the meaning of Har Har Simrou Sant Gopala: Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Page 617 Line 13
It seems that Har Har is not used for rhyming the shabads as clearly seen in this particular verse. So its uniqueness has to have a deeper meaning or purpose. What could that be?

I think you can understand this from a Quote as
"HARi.HARi Tera Naamu Hai Dukh Metanhara"......Raagu Tilung.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

I think you can understand this from a Quote as
"HARi.HARi Tera Naamu Hai Dukh Metanhara"......Raagu Tilung.

Prakash.S.Bagga

So how does this apply to your earlier mention that Name is not Naamu? Could it be that Har Har is more than a word whose origin is embossed into a metaphysical nature? And that Har Har is the outer symbolic word of deeper spiritual origin? If you believe it to be so, then maybe you could have the experience like....GOONGE KI MITHIYAI.....

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: Meaning of this Shabad please

So how does this apply to your earlier mention that Name is not Naamu? Could it be that Har Har is more than a word whose origin is embossed into a metaphysical nature? And that Har Har is the outer symbolic word of deeper spiritual origin? If you believe it to be so, then maybe you could have the experience like....GOONGE KI MITHIYAI.....

You are very close to my understanding.
From Gurbanee I understand that the word <Hari.Hari> is the only word which is NAME as well as NAAMu.
So it is important to understand the difference between Name and Naamu.
Naamu is different from Name
One may surprise How this word <Hari.HARi> is NAME as well as Naamu.
why not other words .This can be known only by getting the understanding as in what way NAMe is different from Naamu.

Prakash.s.Bagga