Yogism Meditation, Why I Do Not Do It. Anymore

[chazSingh]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

I say go with the flow. My "flow" of the moment is singing along with the shabad on youtube or singing along with sangat at the local Gurdwara.

I too was caught in a whirlpool of ecstasy where I saw things, NOT to my detriment. I got addicted, expectations rose and then I fell hard when nothing seemed to happen after that.

Naam isn't just Ommmm Ommmm as a fellow forumer put it. Imho, Sewa is naam. Helping others is naam.

It took a while to clamber back up and out of a depressive state when I "lost" my master, spiritual wise. I didn't want the angels to go. But they had to go so that I would learn to stand on my own two feet instead of relying on "voices".

I do sing along shabad kirtan to youtube mostly, sewa and about 10 mins of simran (because the cool youtube simrans only last for that long{yes, its also sing along}).

So yes, I have been in a state where I have "travelled" during longer simran sessions. I kept wanting to have more and and more experiences. Fell hard. Begged for the dear angels to come back. They had already said their goodbyes with a "don't forget us".

Most of all I miss the pyaar "they" bestowed on me.

So yes, maybe your disinterest in visiting Mars time and time again is a blessing in disguise. Maybe its time to move to other things; take your pick, or choose all i.e. naam, simran, sewa, shabad, bandagi, kirat karni, wand ke chakna. There is more to naam than what we have experienced. We just haven't realised it yet.

Yet, Yet, this is what I posted sometime back:

I meditated on this gurmantar (waheguru, waheguru) every night. I could feel Guru Ram Das taking me from a "bad place" to a "good place". I hung on to the end of Guruji's robe for dear life as Guruji "carried" me with every gurmantar that I japped. This is a note to myself as well as to you; never underestimate the power of gurmantar even if you can't feel it. You ARE being carried across the samundar.

Life is simple.

Satnaam Ji,

Just as in this ohysical realm we need to overcome the stranglehold of Ego, attachment, desire, anger, greed etc....this also is true on the spritual path.

The experiences we have a long the way, yes we should be thankful of them and learn from them, but that is it.
we can also get:
attached to the experiences
desire for more experiences
Ego that we have become spiritually advanced
Greed for more and more

This will very quickly put an end to our spiritual progression.
our destination is the One...our focus must only be on the One. until we transcend past the Mind layer, everything we see a long the way is still part of creation. Enjoy, be thankfull for the experiences...but once they occur say to God...."thank you, but i do not care for the experience...i long to for nothing else other than to return to my true home"

God bless you on your journey

 

[chazSingh]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

Isn't meditation how we learn to give our undivided attention to God? By quieting down and being rid of the maya/distractions, we go deep into the Ocean of God. I think that will radiate into the world.

Zoroastrians say "good thoughts, good words, good deeds". Sikhs may word it as "naam in the mind; naam on the lips; naam in the seva". I love that the nitnem reminds me each day that there is God in both the giving and receiving.

How can God give if there is no one there to receive? Harry ji, I think this is all I mean when I say meditation is a way to learn how to experience and share the experience of the Divine. Maybe my definition of meditation is different than yours.

NaamJi{censored}aur Ji,

you explain this beautifully

Keep going deeper into the ocean of God and never look back.
I know from my experience, when we do Simran with so much love for God, the effects are felt by the whole universe.

When we do simran at amrit vela, we are connecting with every soul on the planet who are also doing simran...i'm sure the effects are magnified for whole of mankind.

This is all just beautiful seva that god himself is doing...all is Him

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

Keep going deeper into the ocean of God and never look back.
I know from my experience, when we do Simran with so much love for God, the effects are felt by the whole universe.

you had to ruin it didnt you lol lol lol lol

How can God give if there is no one there to receive? Harry ji, I think this is all I mean when I say meditation is a way to learn how to experience and share the experience of the Divine. Maybe my definition of meditation is different than yours.

Meditation as stated often in the SGGS I read as contemplation, internal debating, questions, answers, study, learning

Sewa, I term implementing this

The meditation I refuse to embrace is the Naam Japping, eyes closed, breathing led, yoga type meditation.

 

[chazSingh]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

The meditation I refuse to embrace is the Naam Japping, eyes closed, breathing led, yoga type meditation.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Harry Ji,

The japping (in the mind) and any breathing led meditation practice is just to keep your mind busy from disturbing you...whilst you sit back and 'explore' your consciosness...thats when the true Simran/mediation begins....once the mind quits bugging you...there is no need for any japping because you then focus on the shabad which resounds within you (inner guru)

Eventually every single cell in your body will be doing simran (Rom Rom simran)
guramukh rom rom har dhhiaavai || 941

This is quite a unique experience...one that cannot be described

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

Chazji

In my view the clutter of reality and life is part and parcel of living, therefore any 'simran' must take that into account as a factor. Anything devoid of this factor is not real, and has no place in 'real life' in my view.

In essence it means meditating on mountain tops, or hanging from trees is pointless, as surely the trick is to master such a state when all hell is breaking loose around you.

 

[chazSingh]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

Chazji

In my view the clutter of reality and life is part and parcel of living, therefore any 'simran' must take that into account as a factor. Anything devoid of this factor is not real, and has no place in 'real life' in my view.

The physical realm (what you're calling reality) is just one portion of his creation. And yes i do agree with you, whilst we are here we should operate in society as best we can as a householder with all the good and bad that life chucks at us....afterall we're here to 'experience' and reach a state of consciosness far higher than we ever can without those 'experiences' ... so we must live

In essence it means meditating on mountain tops, or hanging from trees is pointless, as surely the trick is to master such a state when all hell is breaking loose around you.

Yes, agree also...i dont think anyone here is doing anything different to what you're saying.

when the consciousness has expanded so much (oozing with love), thats when i think our soul (us/self) starts it's journey back and we see the whole creation in operation (all the different layers)...

but also to go beyond creation...to sachkhand, which is also part of the experience of opposites i.e. God (everlasting, infinite) and opposite creation (start-beginning-end)
and hence through experience of start/beginning/end (time) we truely get the experience of infinite and everlasting.

then with that added knowledge (gyan) and responisbility based solely on love (no ego) we help guide others back also.

I think thats how it works...maybe one day i'll know it for sure.

 

[gillgk]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

Satnaam Ji,

Just as in this ohysical realm we need to overcome the stranglehold of Ego, attachment, desire, anger, greed etc....this also is true on the spritual path.

The experiences we have a long the way, yes we should be thankful of them and learn from them, but that is it.
we can also get:
attached to the experiences
desire for more experiences
Ego that we have become spiritually advanced
Greed for more and more

This will very quickly put an end to our spiritual progression.
our destination is the One...our focus must only be on the One. until we transcend past the Mind layer, everything we see a long the way is still part of creation. Enjoy, be thankfull for the experiences...but once they occur say to God...."thank you, but i do not care for the experience...i long to for nothing else other than to return to my true home"

God bless you on your journey

Thank YOU for that.

It took a LONG while for me to realise that the words in bold applied to the spiritual realm as well. After it did, I learnt how to take baby steps again and be independent in my own right.

I know not where I am going spiritual wise now but am slowly building the confidence I first lacked when I first rose immediately into the spiritual realm by dying into the word of the shabad before falling down hard in the physical world.

Your words are appreciated. Not many are aware of the difference between Moh (attachment) and Pyaar. Never even THOUGHT about the rest!

 

[chazSingh]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

Thank YOU for that.

It took a LONG while for me to realise that the words in bold applied to the spiritual realm as well. After it did, I learnt how to take baby steps again and be independent in my own right.

I know not where I am going spiritual wise now but am slowly building the confidence I first lacked when I first rose immediately into the spiritual realm by dying into the word of the shabad before falling down hard in the physical world.

Your words are appreciated. Not many are aware of the difference between Moh (attachment) and Pyaar. Never even THOUGHT about the rest!

Satnaam Ji,

I've made the same mistakes myself, seeing wonderful things and then when it didnt happen again i thought "why isnt it happeneing" "am i doing something wrong"
and then with that came frustration, dissapointment, leading to doubts etc

Love is what pulls us up...Love to experience something that doesnt have a Start-Beggining-End because we're finally realsing that these momentary things aren't really making us happy/blissful...so when we finally make it back we will have soo much of appreciation and love and understanding for the true reality.

Now when i do simran, i just feel like i am just sitting on a boat, and the sea currents are taking me wherever they want to....

never give up...people like you (the explorers) are the hope for the rest of us

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

Oh Jesus

Harry ji, go find a Guru if you are going to do this full time. If you do it super long you will **** yourself over, that is if you do it without a Guru. Just like if you weight train for 18 hours a day, you probably screwed over every muscle in your body... For most people the recommended practice is 20 minutes a day.

I am not an expert on meditation. You should find an actual expert to help you with your journey inwards. I have not seen stars and planets on my way there. Though what I did find was deep peace and a deep passion to live every moment.

There is something else I wanted you to experiment with. See if you can combine this practice with your actions in the world. When you act do it within the state of meditation, act from the state of being.

Cheers

 

[Ambarsaria]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

Bhagat Singh ji thanks for your post. Some comments.

Oh Jesus

Harry ji, go find a Guru if you are going to do this full time. If you do it super long you will **** yourself over, that is if you do it without a Guru.

For Sikhs how many more Gurus you need beyond SGGS?

Just like if you weight train for 18 hours a day, you probably screwed over every muscle in your body... For most people the recommended practice is 20 minutes a day.

lolSofties from Canada experiencing the Indian Railway system I assume lol. Welcome back I assume this you experienced in your recent trip to India.

I am not an expert on meditation. You should find an actual expert to help you with your journey inwards. I have not seen stars and planets on my way there. Though what I did find was deep peace and a deep passion to live every moment.

I assume you mean a teacher or guide for meditation versus a Guru in previous paragraph.

There is something else I wanted you to experiment with. See if you can combine this practice with your actions in the world. When you act do it within the state of meditation, act from the state of being.Cheers

I agree that if you are going to meditate might as well apply it and this is wonderful statement.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

lolSofties from Canada experiencing the Indian Railway system I assume lol. Welcome back I assume this you experienced in your recent trip to India.

Haha I know what you mean. I didn't travel by train but by bus. But I have to say I enjoyed it very much, the 7 hours of "experiencing".

I assume you mean a teacher or guide for meditation versus a Guru in previous paragraph.

Potehto potahto.

So no he does not "need" anyone but Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not personalized to his specific situation. Just like if one wanted to learn to play basketball, he could read a book or two on it. But a coach is going to know you personally and will know your strengths and weaknesses intimately and help you work on them. That's what Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says as well, "find a teacher and find a crowd of people who are into what you do". Find a coach and a team if you want to play.

I agree that if you are going to meditate might as well apply it and this is wonderful statement.

Well that and there are precious things to be found with this particular practice.

 

[namjiwankaur]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

Sat Nam

So no he does not "need" anyone but Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not personalized to his specific situation.

I have always struggled with the kind of meditation where you sit and empty your mind. I just can't settle down into it. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has a wonderful way to meditate in every moment. Remembering the Name of God is a really beneficial way to meditate.

Mr Sikhnet did an article on using waheguru audio from Sikhnet for simran & I have been using several of them. The monotone versions get stuck in my head like and I keep humming Waheguru with it all day.

It seems that meditation with Waheguru is soaking my parched spirit. I guess I need to feed my spirit as much as I need to feed my body. I think Harry ji thinks its more useful if a person goes out into the world and gives of him/herself rather than being alone with God. But I have been learning that sometimes we need to humble ourselves to become the receivers. In order to give, someone needs to be the receiver. I see the Divine One as the Giver, but also the Receiver. That came from the Nitnem.

That opened my eyes when I realized I only valued giving, but that I need to allow God to give to me through me sometimes also. Meditation seems to be about filling up the tank with gas or feeding oneself. If I deny food to my body, mind or spirit, I am not an effective giver. Does that make sense?

:singhsippingcoffee:

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

Meditation as stated often in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji I read as contemplation, internal debating, questions, answers, study, learning

Sewa, I term implementing this

The meditation I refuse to embrace is the Naam Japping, eyes closed, breathing led, yoga type meditation.

Harryji, I mentioned in another post not long ago, I cannot remember which!!- That meditation is also seva.

To utter the gurmantar or Lord's name with your tongue and mind is seva of the tongue.

When doing physical seva of participating in helping a service say, we dedicate our hands and body to be put to practical use.
In the same manner, dedicating our tongue and vocal chords can be used in giving the self service towards the lord.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

Luckysing ji thanks for your post. Some comments.

Harryji, I mentioned in another post not long ago, I cannot remember which!!- That meditation is also seva.
....
In the same manner, dedicating our tongue and vocal chords can be used in giving the self service towards the lord.

Luckysingh veer ji much slippery slope here. I will postulate that breathing to cause the vocal cords to vibrate is seva. We can go on and would conclude that being alive is seva. Then again when we die and become food/nutrition for others it is seva too. Where to draw the line as there is no sand to draw the line on as all is one continuum.

A retrospective inner dialog with our soul/creator I can see distinct purpose for but I think we are being too creative to differentiate between specific words as seva and all else as gibberish or of different stature! Just thinking out aloud.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Luckysingh]

To sum it up, I would say
- That every act we do that has a positive and helpful effect on creation and ourselves, providing it is not for self satisfaction, greed and self gain is an Act Of Seva.

Getting up, having breakfast, discussing good thoughts and do everything whilst adhering to the naam and truth. Eating and sharing, helping others at work, enjoying the company of family whilst watching TV, helping your kids with homework ...etc...
Everything that is conducted rightfully and truthfully, I would say is an Act Of Seva.

I think that sums it up and simplifies it a little. So the autonomic actions like breathing etc..that occur without self effort are NOT classed as seva.

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

Oh Jesus

Harry ji, go find a Guru if you are going to do this full time. If you do it super long you will **** yourself over, that is if you do it without a Guru. Just like if you weight train for 18 hours a day, you probably screwed over every muscle in your body... For most people the recommended practice is 20 minutes a day.

I am not an expert on meditation. You should find an actual expert to help you with your journey inwards. I have not seen stars and planets on my way there. Though what I did find was deep peace and a deep passion to live every moment.

There is something else I wanted you to experiment with. See if you can combine this practice with your actions in the world. When you act do it within the state of meditation, act from the state of being.

Cheers

Ambarsariaji answered this as I would have, good to see you back, I've missed you!

 

[namjiwankaur]

“Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.”
- Charles Reade

I also don't see the literal/maya/illusion of a world as the only place for seva. Beyond the illusion is the Sound/Vibration and Light (God's Light hides within maya) of God which causes things to spin at different frequencies, creating maya. When we help an old woman shovel her sidewalk, the spiritual part, imho, is not so much the act of helping someone shovel, but the way the energy/intention/etc. effects what exists beyond maya.

IE- If I pet my cat and she purrs, its not really about me petting my cat. Its about God interacting with God through us. We perceive it as a cat and a person interacting, but beyond maya it is Vibrations and Energy. Our aura and chakras and energy field can therefore effect the energy of the world in a positive way by meditating, etc., because it has a ripple effect.

Sort of like when someone smiles, we often return a smile. If the smile is "polite", but not felt in the heart, it won't change anything. To me, that's not seva.

When it is seva is when we genuinely smile and someone feels the energy of that and genuinely smiles back ... because then her heart is filled with the joy of genuine smiles between two ppl.

Nam Jiwan peacesign

 

[Harry Haller]

I also don't see the literal/maya/illusion of a world as the only place for seva. Beyond the illusion is the Sound/Vibration and Light (God's Light hides within maya) of God which causes things to spin at different frequencies, creating maya. When we help an old woman shovel her sidewalk, the spiritual part, imho, is not so much the act of helping someone shovel, but the way the energy/intention/etc. effects what exists beyond maya.

I must be doing something wrong, all I can see is an old women who needs help lol lol lol lol

 

[namjiwankaur]

Harry ji

Do you reflect on the Guru's Teachings on maya? I wonder how you perceive maya. What is your personal understanding of maya?

I think one of the benefits of meditating on the Naam is you pull back some of the veils. .

That old woman is truly God. You are truly God. I am sure you know that already since its the most basic teaching in Siri Guru Granth Sahib.

You are attached to the old woman's earthly form vs. trying to meet soul to soul. Or perhaps you see her physical being as an expression of the soul?

Life is God's Light...and its much more than you and I shoveling the sidewalk, but, of course, God gives us different eyes. Yet we both have eyes of the soul also and those eyes see the Real. I think you are working more with the left-side of the brain and I am working with the right side of the brain. It causes us to perceive and experience in very different ways.

Blessed Be.
Nam Jiwan

 

[Harry Haller]

Bhenji

forgive me if I come across as obtuse, I follow a line of Sikhi which perhaps is not as spiritual as some, the opinions expressed are on the whole purely my own, it is certainly not my intention to correct you in any way mundahug

phew, now we've got that out of the way

Do you reflect on the Guru's Teachings on maya? I wonder how you perceive maya. What is your personal understanding of maya?

I think everyone has an individual take on maya, for me it is not as illusory as it possibly should be. Maya can mean the whole world is an illusion, but to me, maya represents wealth earned through non sikhi means, huge cars driven for the wrong reasons, drugs, alcohol, cheap sex, in fact, all the things that make a young mans heart beat faster. I do not feel the world is an illusion, I feel it is our role as Sikhs to nurture the world and its inhabitants, in a very real fashion.

I think one of the benefits of meditating on the Naam is you pull back some of the veils.

again, we are possibly talking about something different. The Naam is not something I could meditate on, the Naam, to me, is a state of mind that is connected to Creator, I know when I am in Naam, and I know when I am not in Naam. When my puppy is licking my face, and I can see by his eyes that there is so much love there, I find myself in Naam, when my puppy soils himself on my boot, I could be in Naam, I should be in Naam, but I tend not to be. When I am eating healthy, sleeping well, and my my mind has only thoughts of sewa and love, then I am in Naam, when I am eating rubbish, sleeping poorly, and thinking only of food and sex, then I am not.

That old woman is truly God. You are truly God. I am sure you know that already since its the most basic teaching in Siri Guru Granth Sahib.

Correct, but she is still an old woman, that much is not maya, not to me anyway, I find it important not to lose sight of the fact that she is an old woman, I find such keeps me grounded, and doing what I do, for the right reasons, ie, not to earn brownie points off Creator, or to self congratulate myself, I helped an old woman, thats all I did, and then its time to move on, and forget about the whole episode.

You are attached to the old woman's earthly form vs. trying to meet soul to soul. Or perhaps you see her physical being as an expression of the soul?

crumbs thats too complicated for me! Im just helping an old woman, nothing more, nothing less. I am not trying to meet soul to soul, I am seeing someone in need of help, and I am doing my duty as a Sikh to help. I think its important not to dwell too much on Creators presence in everything otherwise you lose sight of the real world. For instance, at this very moment, there is a fly that is annoying the hell out of me, and as soon as I finish this post, it is going to get it. Let us say for instance you came across a man raping a woman, now, according to Confusedji, a very learned man who is a sort of Buddhist, the sympathy should lie with the man, if you see Creator in the man and the woman, who do you help, I see a man raping a woman.

Life is God's Light...and its much more than you and I shoveling the sidewalk, but, of course, God gives us different eyes. Yet we both have eyes of the soul also and those eyes see the Real. I think you are working more with the left-side of the brain and I am working with the right side of the brain. It causes us to perceive and experience in very different ways.

possibly, I have not given this much thought, I was a lapsed Sikh before I 'joined up' again, the attraction was the simplicity peacesignkaur