Nanak Is The Guru, Nanak Is The Lord Himself

[spnadmin]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

Sikh80 ji

Thank you for taking time each week or so to post these kathas. Each one has several nuggets of important reflection.

Sat Nam

 

[sidhu_james]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

Dear Sikh 80 ji,
SSAkal.

The questions coming in your mind are very logical. I am afraid Sister Surinder's answers aren't convincing, with all due respects to her. In the Granth Sahib, our respected Gurus have professed themselves as sinners. They clearly say they are seeking forgiveness of their sins. Guru Arjan Dev says i worship the Creator who has created me in my mother's womb. All my life i have been a devout follower of Sikhism, but now i am not convinced about many areas. The questions cropping in your mind trouble me also. What if the Gurus were dead serious and have really declared themselves unworthy of worship? Aren't we then commiting a folly by blindly following them as Gurus, and idol worshipping them? All the Gurus point towards the Creator. They say Shabad hi Guru hai.

In fact what disturbed me was the fact that much of the text in Granth Sahib has been copied from the Bible. If i as a Sikh take pride in my religion, and Gurus, why do my Gurus need to copy something from a different Holy Book, that is much older than theirs.

In the beginning was word, and word was with God, and word was God...now this text first appeared in Bible and then in Granth Sahib, i have discovered this. Then in one of the verses in Granth, Gurus say that they will worship the Word that was taken alive to heaven....something like Panch tatva da Putla Nanak....Shabad mera Guru Jo Jeevit Gaya Aasmaan.

What was Nank Ji trying to say here? Who has gone alive to heaven. If someone has gone alive to heaven, then definitely that Shabad (Word) must have come to earth also....a very logical assumption. Now if that Word became flesh, and came to earth, then it must be God incarnated. Now none of our Gurus have made a claim that they are God. They have sought forgiveness of their sins from Waheguru, the Almighty. Suppose my Gurus were trying to show me a way?

So in my attempts i came across some verses in Bible where Jesus maakes claims, that He is the way, the truth, the life. There is no other way to Almighty except through me (Jesus).

Now i do not these claims in any other Holy Book. The point to ponder is, why did Jesus make these claims? Who gave Him the authority to say such things? Naturally a person with authority would make such statements. Why did my Gurus not say such things? Why not a single surety that they will take me to heaven?

Why do my Gurus need forgiveness of sins, as they claim. And if they need forgiveness, whom are they seeking forgivenss from? Who can forgive their sins? First i though that it must be Waheguru. But then how do i talk to the Waheguru? I also need my sins forgiven, like my Gurus. So i came across these verses in Bible where Jesus says that He has been given the authority to forgive sins, by Heavenly Father. I find this talk pretty straight forward. Jesus Himself is not seeking forgiveness of sins but He is grants forgiveness. He is sinless whereas my Gurus say they are sinners.

I am not a Christian but i have pondered over these startling discoveries. Am i worshipping the wrong Gurus? Why my Gurus say that whoever worships us will go to hell ( ghor narak) ? I don't wanna end up my life in hell!! I want to go to heaven!

There are other verses also which seem confusing. We just can't blindly assume that Nank is Waheguru Himself. That would be just assuming things. Let's try to get logical, for a change.

 

[mkm]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

The questions coming in your mind are very logical. I am afraid Sister Surinder's answers aren't convincing, with all due respects to her. In the Granth Sahib, our respected Gurus have professed themselves as sinners. They clearly say they are seeking forgiveness of their sins. Guru Arjan Dev says i worship the Creator who has created me in my mother's womb. All my life i have been a devout follower of Sikhism, but now i am not convinced about many areas. The questions cropping in your mind trouble me also. What if the Gurus were dead serious and have really declared themselves unworthy of worship? Aren't we then commiting a folly by blindly following them as Gurus, and idol worshipping them? All the Gurus point towards the Creator. They say Shabad hi Guru hai.

sidhu-james ji

As far as I know Guru ji where ever says that he is low he is a sinner, it doesnt mean it is admission of any sin, actually it is humble behaviour, also it is about the general people( HAM MAILE TU UJJAL KARTA, HAM-WE). So do not understand it in a wrong way, I cannot recall now what in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it is said like WAHEGURU, Guru ji is also beyond error. Guru Nanak is our Guru Ji and WAHEGURU is what we seek.

 

[lalihayer]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

Sidhu_james ji, you made some amazing claims. I don't have time to refute everything you said, but I could not stop myself from answering some of your doubts.
"In fact what disturbed me was the fact that much of the text in Granth Sahib has been copied from the Bible. If i as a Sikh take pride in my religion, and Gurus, why do my Gurus need to copy something from a different Holy Book, that is much older than theirs."
That's new. Guru Granth is copy of bible?. So you claim Gurus copied bible. I know most of Abrahamic religions have things in common, but I never heard claim from missionaries that Guru Granth is copy of Bible.
"He is sinless whereas my Gurus say they are sinners."
Gurus are just being humble praying in front of Lord. Everybody is lesser than Him.
Don't forget whole Guru Granth is written in poetry. Lot of times gurus call soul a bride of Lord. So you think they mean it literally. Guru Nanak always put emphasis on one's actions. Read Japji again. Guru gave us humans a way to reach Waheguru, but we have to put Guru's advice into our actions. There is no doubt Guru Nanak became one with Lord, as Guru Granth contains many tuks written by later Guru Sahibs and Bhatts. But he never came straight into a virgin's womb as claimed for Jesus by your christian fellows. And quotes you are giving from bible are written by people centuries after his crucification.
I think you find deal offered by bible more attractive as Jesus (if he existed) is promising you heaven and eternal life without any action from you. On the other hand Nanak's way to God is attained through your deeds and conviction.

 

[pk70]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

Dear Sikh 80 ji,
SSAkal.

Sikh 80 is not available obviously let me comment on your comments
The questions coming in your mind are very logical.
Whose mind? If in your mind, they are not very logical surprisingly, I shall prove it.
. In the Granth Sahib, our respected Gurus have professed themselves as sinners.
Revealed Gurbani is not any kind of confession but a humble way to address to the Creator. In Gurbani, ego is main target through out Gurbani. It is not spoken always on behalf Guru ji only but also on behalf of all. Prayer for every one is made.
They clearly say they are seeking forgiveness of their sins. Guru Arjan Dev says i worship the Creator who has created me in my mother's womb.
It is called complete surrender by being ego less( I-ness), nothing more than that. It is said all in Love and in being in love. There is no statement there but a deep genius poetic display of revealed Truth who had it, not based on hear say
All my life i have been a devout follower of Sikhism
‘That is not true because devout Sikh goes beyond imaginative doubts, your questions prove otherwise
, but now i am not convinced about many areas. The questions cropping in your mind trouble me also. What if the Gurus were dead serious and have really declared themselves unworthy of worship?
Guru ji never advocates self worshiping save for respect, from where you are getting this is beyond my comprehension.
Aren't we then commiting a folly by blindly following them as Gurus, and idol worshipping them? All the Gurus point towards the Creator. They say Shabad hi Guru hai.
How other way can any one follow Guru? elaborate with your wiser approach? By doubting in him or questioning him by being in a position of having other influences? Why then there is a need to even follow any one? Why don’t you ask yourself, as you claim to be logical, how every word written hundred years after Jesus could be his words? Where is your logical mind there? You accept their claims to be true, isn’t it laughable? Gurbani is in poetic form, symbols and metaphors are major players in conveying message of peace and love.

In fact what disturbed me was the fact that much of the text in Granth Sahib has been copied from the Bible. If i as a Sikh take pride in my religion, and Gurus, why do my Gurus need to copy something from a different Holy Book, that is much older than theirs.
Who told you that lie? Have you studied history? Gurbani discusses Islam and Hinduism, not a small reference is given about Bible and its religion, isn’t it a proof that Guru ji didn’t even acknowledge Christianity as an important to address. In expression of passion and spiritual concepts, words can resemble in many religious scriptures, that doesn’t mean those are copy.

In the beginning was word, and word was with God, and word was God...now this text first appeared in Bible and then in Granth Sahib, i have discovered this
First read Japji, Word concept will be clear in your mind. Word is also used in Gurbani for different meaning in different context unlike in Bible
. Then in one of the verses in Granth, Gurus say that they will worship the Word that was taken alive to heaven....something like Panch tatva da Putla Nanak....Shabad mera Guru Jo Jeevit Gaya Aasmaan.
You even don’t remember Guru Vaak, concluding on some thing like this shows a display of foolish attack on Sikhism

What was Nank Ji trying to say here? Who has gone alive to heaven

Asmaan is not heaven for Gods sake; you should respect yourself and avoid making statements on which people should laugh at.
. If someone has gone alive to heaven, then definitely that Shabad (Word) must have come to earth also....a very logical assumption.
What you are saying, may be Bible says that, I am sure Guru Granth Sahib doesn’t, period.

Now if that Word became flesh, and came to earth, then it must be God incarnated.
Very clearly it is stated in Guru Granth Sahib that HE is beyond Birth and death, incarnation is imagination of some or those who have no inkling of Sargan Form of the Creator.
Now none of our Gurus have made a claim that they are God. They have sought forgiveness of their sins from Waheguru, the Almighty. Suppose my Gurus were trying to show me a way?
They were humble and want us to be humble, to remain egoless before HIM, all shallow or real intellectual are fruitless in pursuit of Spiritual experience. As per Gurbani, sins of others are not taken by one person unless God wishes, sins remain liability of the sinners; responsibility of the sins lies on doers shoulders. No trading in or false promises.

So in my attempts i came across some verses in Bible where Jesus maakes claims, that He is the way, the truth, the life. There is no other way to Almighty except through me (Jesus)
Follow Him, Good luck. It is a claim of your choice after all.

Now i do not these claims in any other Holy Book. The point to ponder is, why did Jesus make these claims? Who gave Him the authority to say such things? Naturally a person with authority would make such statements. Why did my Gurus not say such things? Why not a single surety that they will take me to heaven?
Go to Radha Swami, Ram Rahim Singh, they all make claims .Did Jesus make claim or his followers did? That question’s answer proves what logic you are following. As Bible was written by others than Jesus, who knows who made claim in reality. Ponder over it, still I urge you to join the wagon of Jesus, he takes all responsibility for others sins, many people love that concept; you just enjoy life and meet him in the end free of all sins, what a free ride, it is that simple as per their claims contrary to Gurmat. My best wishes are[/FONT] with you.

Why do my Gurus need forgiveness of sins, as they claim. And if they need forgiveness, [/FONT] whom are they seeking forgivenss from? Who can forgive their sins? First i though that it must be Waheguru. But then how do i talk to the Waheguru? I also need my sins forgiven, like my Gurus. So i came across these verses in Bible where Jesus says that He has been given the authority to forgive sins, by Heavenly Father. I find this talk pretty straight forward. Jesus Himself is not seeking forgiveness of sins but He is grants forgiveness. He is sinless whereas my Gurus say they are sinners.
As I told you earlier, you are believer of individual claims, go ahead. Guru ji prayed and asked Him for forgiveness for all, and all power is credited to HIM, the infinite One, to forgive mortals. At the last moment, you can recall very famous words, Jesus is said to say” Father forgive them they don’t know what they are doing” Why Jesus himself didn’t declare” I forgive you guys, you don’t know what you are doing!” Why he asked His Creator/Father for forgiveness? as per your logical mind.

I am not a Christian but i have pondered over these startling discoveries. Am i worshipping the wrong Gurus? Why my Gurus say that whoever worships us will go to hell ( ghor narak) ? I don't wanna end up my life in hell!! I want to go to heaven!

Who guided you to worship Guru,? Guru ji asked to have respect for Guru and Surrender to him so that out of control intellectual and mind can be enabled to see HIM within, not in the sky etc.

There are other verses also which seem confusing. We just can't blindly assume that Nank is Waheguru Himself. That would be just assuming things. Let's try to get logical, for a change.
Both ways, I don’t see any logic, because assumption is ones own, could be quite untrue. Think, a guy is ready to believe in claims made by some people hundred years after Jesus, is it a logical approach?. I have proved, there is no logic in your views what so ever..

 

[SadeePuri]

Re: Nanak is The Guru, Nanak is The Lord Himself.

Gyani ji shares an sakhi of how mardhana saw bhagayar animal who usually eats meat walked away from the dead body. First, he was about to eat meat of this dead body but when he heard rabi shabad kirtan by sri guru nanak dev ji he got vichar gyan and he didn't eat it even though he was extremely hungry. He sniffed the dead body's hand, he refused because this person has never done seva and he sniffed the dead's body leg he refused because this person used to go wrong places then he sniffed his heart, again he refused because this person didn't had any naam.

Sikh80 Ji,

Very interesting, Sikh80 Ji. Can you give the name of the tape collection. Thanks in advance.

Thanks again.

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is The Guru, Nanak is The Lord Himself.

Sikh80 Ji,

Very interesting, Sikh80 Ji. Can you give the name of the tape collection. Thanks in advance.

Thanks again.

Dear sadeepuri jeo,
The URL address is as follows:
http://www.gurmatveechar.com/katha.php?k=gts

 

[SadeePuri]

Re: Nanak is The Guru, Nanak is The Lord Himself.

Thankyou much much Sikh80 Ji for the link.

 

[JimRinX]

Re: Nanak is The Guru, Nanak is The Lord Himself.

Dear: Sikh80 ji
Thank You for the fascinating series of discourse on - what should I call it? - 'The Sikh Fundamentals'; as I've become more an more interested both in your Fine 'Belief System', and in the hows and whys of Guru Nanak ji having created it.
I agree with you regarding the Nature of God and Guru; as I've always considered myself a Mahayana Buddhist (though I'm leaning, leaning, leaning....) and I thus believe that though God and Man are intricately linked; until the Mortal achieves Nirvana in Life, and then dies and is accepted to become part of 'The Collective Soul' that I believe God IS - they are and will remain two seperate Entities.
Thanx Again - especially for Translating it into English, as you have a Fair Proficiency with My native Tougue! I will be reading your Posts for Weeks To Come!
JimRinX

 

[Archived_Member5]

Re: Nanak is The Guru, Nanak is The Lord Himself.

Parmatma is the Supreme Spirit. This powerful Spiritual energy is inherent in varying degrees in all humanity*. The greater the quotient the wiser and profound in Spirit the individual. I firmly hold faith Guru Nanak was the Creator Spirit here on earth. Merer mortals will judge according to their own standards and perspective your intuition is correct. This powerful Spirit is the Universal Consciousness, an amalgamation of the combined pure creative forces and life energy in the world encased within the mortal beings of Great Saints.

The eternal soul is immortal and takes human birth and form. This occurs is stressful times partly evoked by lamentations and prayers of the collective soul. We are all part of this collective conscience, this uniting bond that strings humanity with love and peace as one.

Mankind created from this One Solar Source of Light and pure energy is divided and contrary in nature. In the beginning Gods creation were of one mind and will. Self thinking, conscientious portals of pure love and peaceable, One in Spirit, a Sangat. It is when all men are gain united ion one cause, of one mind and will in Spirit that mankind will be released from the cycle of death and rebirth.

Doomsayers take great opportunity of declaring with vain pride and conceit of Guru Nanak and Jesus being mere mortals blessed. This is Shaitan talking, of selfish envy and ill will. It is part a deep sense of ordinate souls being honoured whilst God descending into this world struggles, lives nomadically and suffers many trials at the hands of this Shaitanni.

From Swarg in his mortal form he casts his gracious glance to the world, and so loved did he his little children young and elders alike, he descended into the world to face the same harsh trials they face daily. It is by this negative energy that the Gods become trapped here and hanker for death and release when remiss of peace, love and humanity. It is true ...

 

[harsajjan]

Re: Nanak is The Guru, Nanak is The Lord Himself.

Being new to Sikhism, I would very much like a clear response to your question. I'm not able to follow the posted answer, however this is a question I've wondered about for some time. Thanks.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Nanak is The Guru, Nanak is The Lord Himself.

Respected Harsajjan ji

Your question is a good question, and sometimes I think the one question that overwhelms all other questions in importance. Humbly I encourage you to read Sri Guru Granth Sahib for answers to questions like the one you have just asked. Gurbani is clear as can be in the answer. So rather than go on and on, here is what Guruji says to us.

ਜਗਤ ਉਧਾਰਣੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਤੁਠੈ ਪਾਇਅਉ ॥
jagath oudhhaaran naam sathigur thuthai paaeiao ||
The Naam is the Saving Grace of the world; by the Pleasure of the True Guru, it is obtained.


ਅਬ ਨਾਹਿ ਅਵਰ ਸਰਿ ਕਾਮੁ ਬਾਰੰਤਰਿ ਪੂਰੀ ਪੜੀ ॥੩॥੧੨॥
ab naahi avar sar kaam baaranthar pooree parree ||3||12||
Now, I am not concerned with anything else; at Your Door, I am fulfilled. ||3||12||


ਜੋਤਿ ਰੂਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਆਪਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਹਾਯਉ ॥
joth roop har aap guroo naanak kehaayo ||
The Embodiment of Light, the Lord Himself is called Guru Nanak.


ਤਾ ਤੇ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਭਯਉ ਤਤ ਸਿਉ ਤਤੁ ਮਿਲਾਯਉ ॥
thaa thae angadh bhayo thath sio thath milaayo ||
From Him, came Guru Angad; His essence was absorbed into the essence.


ਅੰਗਦਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰਿ ਅਮਰੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਥਿਰੁ ਕੀਅਉ ॥
angadh kirapaa dhhaar amar sathigur thhir keeao ||
Guru Angad showed His Mercy, and established Amar Daas as the True Guru.


ਅਮਰਦਾਸਿ ਅਮਰਤੁ ਛਤ੍ਰੁ ਗੁਰ ਰਾਮਹਿ ਦੀਅਉ ॥
amaradhaas amarath shhathra gur raamehi dheeao ||
Guru Amar Daas blessed Guru Raam Daas with the umbrella of immortality.


ਗੁਰ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪਰਸਿ ਕਹਿ ਮਥੁਰਾ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਯਣ ॥
gur raamadhaas dharasan paras kehi mathhuraa anmrith bayan ||
So speaks Mat'huraa: gazing upon the Blessed Vision, the Darshan of Guru Raam Daas, His speech became as sweet as nectar.


ਮੂਰਤਿ ਪੰਚ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਅਰਜੁਨੁ ਪਿਖਹੁ ਨਯਣ ॥੧॥
moorath panch pramaan purakh gur arajun pikhahu nayan ||1||
With your eyes, see the certified Primal Person, Guru Arjun, the Fifth Manifestation of the Guru. ||1||


ਸਤਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਧਰਿਓ ਉਰਿ ॥
sath roop sath naam sath santhokh dhhariou our ||
He is the Embodiment of Truth; He has enshrined the True Name, Sat Naam, Truth and contentment within His heart.


ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖਿ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਲਿਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਉ ਅਛਰੁ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਧੁਰਿ ॥
aadh purakh parathakh likhyo ashhar masathak dhhur ||
From the very beginning, the Primal Being has written this destiny upon His forehead.


ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਜੋਤਿ ਜਗਮਗੈ ਤੇਜੁ ਭੂਅ ਮੰਡਲਿ ਛਾਯਉ ॥
pragatt joth jagamagai thaej bhooa manddal shhaayo ||
His Divine Light shines forth, dazzling and radiant; His Glorious Grandeur pervades the realms of the world.


ਪਾਰਸੁ ਪਰਸਿ ਪਰਸੁ ਪਰਸਿ ਗੁਰਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਹਾਯਉ ॥
paaras paras paras paras gur guroo kehaayo ||
Meeting the Guru, touching the Philosopher's Stone, He was acclaimed as Guru.


ਭਨਿ ਮਥੁਰਾ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਸਦਾ ਥਿਰੁ ਲਾਇ ਚਿਤੁ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਰਹਹੁ ॥
bhan mathhuraa moorath sadhaa thhir laae chith sanamukh rehahu ||
So speaks Mat'huraa: I constantly focus my consciousness on Him; as sunmukh, I look to Him.

The shabad is from the bani of Bhat Mathura and is on Ang 1408 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. ਜੋਤਿ ਰੂਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਆਪਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਹਾਯਉ ॥
joth roop har aap guroo naanak kehaayo || The Embodiment of Light, the Lord Himself is called Guru Nanak.The light of one Guru was absorbed into the next, and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib contains the immortal light of all of them.

Sat Nam ji

 

[dushanka]

Re: Nanak is The Guru, Nanak is The Lord Himself.

Sat sri akal, Sikh80 Ji

what i know about is that Guru Nanak is the highest teacher of Sikhism not Lord on himself. Guru Nanak has learned/tought the people that there is only one almighty God on which we all should believe . Otherwise the Sikhs would not exist , all would still believe on many Gods or be in other religions. You are right if you say this interpretation is wrong .We should of course give highest respect as possible to Guru Nanak Ji ,but we all should praise the one almighty Lord which Guru Nanak Ji tought us to praise . It's very logic .
Best regards ,
Dushanka

 

[Archived_Member5]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

This discussion is useless. If god is formless, undescribable, timeless, nameless. Then each and every one of our depictions of god is correct. At the same point we are also all wrong. Only pray with the true name. Mann and Matth Keep control of them both. What if we are all god. What if we are not.

Discussion is rarely useless unless there is an unequal disparity if intelligence and comprehension. Formless means God is an Omnipresent Spirit at times assuming mortal form, inherent within humanity in varying degrees.

Indescribable is a term used by those so awed or unable to discern the munificence of the definite attributes and constituents of the Universal Spirit. As one in deep love becomes speechless and awed. Timeless denotes his eternal, immortal omnipresence, nameless infers he is in all things beautiful, magnificent and ethereal. All love, truth, wisdom and peace is he, Therefore one virtue cannot encompass his entirety although to say God is Aum, or Om means The Alpha, Omega and guiding light between. God Is, the depiction of each is his perspective according to his understanding and intelligence, imagination and consciousness. God Is. Opinions are wrong, as are views sometimes because we speak with ulterior motive, anger, self interest or blinkered vision. Or we have duality interests that require compromise of truth to accommodate infidelity, causing hypocrisy and irrational vagueness and confusion. God is all virtue, wisdom and absolute love. Man struggles with egotism and vain conceit, to retain his honour and mental clarity, his mastery of will and control of mind. Were we all Gods we would no longer struggle but abide in peace. Create peace and unity where so we roam, a God is a benefactor, a receptacle of grace. Kings, Presidents and Religious Leaders cannot claim Godhood let alone consideration to be God how can mere mortals.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Nanak is The Guru, Nanak is The Lord Himself.

Sat sri akal, Sikh80 Ji

what i know about is that Guru Nanak is the highest teacher of Sikhism not Lord on himself. Guru Nanak has learned/tought the people that there is only one almighty God on which we all should believe . Otherwise the Sikhs would not exist , all would still believe on many Gods or be in other religions. You are right if you say this interpretation is wrong .We should of course give highest respect as possible to Guru Nanak Ji ,but we all should praise the one almighty Lord which Guru Nanak Ji tought us to praise . It's very logic .
Best regards ,
Dushanka

This is not my opinion nor my interpretation.


ਜੋਤਿ ਰੂਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਆਪਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਹਾਯਉ ॥
joth roop har aap guroo naanak kehaayo ||
The Embodiment of Light, the Lord Himself is called Guru Nanak.


The Gurus are merged with the jyote jot.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

This discussion is useless. If god is formless, undescribable, timeless, nameless. Then each and every one of our depictions of god is correct. At the same point we are also all wrong. Only pray with the true name. Mann and Matth Keep control of them both. What if we are all god. What if we are not.

Discussion is rarely useless unless there is an unequal disparity if intelligence and comprehension. Formless means God is an Omnipresent Spirit at times assuming mortal form, inherent within humanity in varying degrees.

Indescribable is a term used by those so awed or unable to discern the munificence of the definite attributes and constituents of the Universal Spirit. As one in deep love becomes speechless and awed. Timeless denotes his eternal, immortal omnipresence, nameless infers he is in all things beautiful, magnificent and ethereal. All love, truth, wisdom and peace is he, Therefore one virtue cannot encompass his entirety although to say God is Aum, or Om means The Alpha, Omega and guiding light between. God Is, the depiction of each is his perspective according to his understanding and intelligence, imagination and consciousness. God Is. Opinions are wrong, as are views sometimes because we speak with ulterior motive, anger, self interest or blinkered vision. Or we have duality interests that require compromise of truth to accommodate infidelity, causing hypocrisy and irrational vagueness and confusion. God is all virtue, wisdom and absolute love. Man struggles with egotism and vain conceit, to retain his honour and mental clarity, his mastery of will and control of mind. Were we all Gods we would no longer struggle but abide in peace. Create peace and unity where so we roam, a God is a benefactor, a receptacle of grace. Kings, Presidents and Religious Leaders cannot claim Godhood let alone consideration to be God how can mere mortals.

Thanks jeetijohal for this this incisive reply. Waheguru the SatGuru is both nargun and sargun. As Guru Nanak the SatGuru took on His sargun swaroopa.

 

[onewithinall]

Re: Nanak is The Guru, Nanak is The Lord Himself.

dude you should run for office......you aks questions you already know the answers to...... it would seem your horse is tall and mighty.

Warning regarding forum rules. Please debate issues not personalities.

 

[onewithinall]

Re: Nanak is The Guru, Nanak is The Lord Himself.

Please use a civil tongue. (aad0002)

 

[karam]

I beleive Guru Nanak was the shadow of God, Guru Nanak and parmatma both were abhed mean I don't find any difference between them, Guru Nanak was born enlightened with the will of God, and only and only God was Guru Nanak's guru, after carefully reviewing guru Nanak's sakhis I came to the conclusion that Guru Nanak was born enlightened...this is the reason he could enlighten mullas and brahmans at very young age,

 

[spnadmin]

karamji


your words are very inspiring. I have only one question. Do you mean "shadow of God?" A shadow is a darer place where light does not shine through brightly. You may mean in the jyote or LIght of God rather than shadow, judging for all else that you said.