harpreetsingh
SPNer
- Aug 27, 2007
- 34
- 0
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I think the question has remained unanswered. One may kindly go thru. the post as above and try to answer as to ' how to meditate. I have no answer for this.
Harpreet
Need Guidance In Understanding A Line From SGGS
- Thread starter hps
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***********************
I think the question has remained unanswered. One may kindly go thru. the post as above and try to answer as to ' how to meditate. I have no answer for this.
Harpreet
harpreetsingh
SPNer
- Aug 27, 2007
- 34
- 0
Dear friends,
1.
The above question has remained unanswered for quite sometime.It is requested that anyone who has fair idea of the above may kindly enlighten us.
2.
Besides the following lines are also interlinked with Naam.
'Meeting the Almighty True Guru; the God was revealed to me;I sing His glorious praises and reflect upon His glories"
[Ang 607-5,Sorath]
In the above ,as per my understanding' the term Guru is referred to as some agency that is external to 'sabad Guru' i.e Guru Granth Sahib ji. In the light of above who is our Guru and what is the difference beteween tru guru,perfect Guru' and the primal.It is becoming confusing to me.Kindly help.
Regards.
bhul chuk mauf
1.
The above question has remained unanswered for quite sometime.It is requested that anyone who has fair idea of the above may kindly enlighten us.
2.
Besides the following lines are also interlinked with Naam.
'Meeting the Almighty True Guru; the God was revealed to me;I sing His glorious praises and reflect upon His glories"
[Ang 607-5,Sorath]
In the above ,as per my understanding' the term Guru is referred to as some agency that is external to 'sabad Guru' i.e Guru Granth Sahib ji. In the light of above who is our Guru and what is the difference beteween tru guru,perfect Guru' and the primal.It is becoming confusing to me.Kindly help.
Regards.
bhul chuk mauf
Archived_member2
Archived
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!
The question raised is "To the similar effect this line states that the name should be uttered as per guru's instructions. What would be its meaning?"
Truth does not have a meaning. Truth is as it is.
In a TV Interview in Los Angeles the moderator asked me the question "what is the difference between Gur and Satgur?"
I am surprised reading long articles and discussions about this. The answer can be as simple and short as Gurdev's Vaak.
Gurdev clearly says "gur satgur kaa jo sikh akhaa-ay so bhalkay uth har naam Dhi-aavai." SGGS 305.
The true Sikh is one who has learned it. Strange, many call them a Sikh without learning true Simran.
Gur is the technique. Yet the Gur does not help much till it becomes Satgur (True Gur), the true experience.
This is the reason Gurdev is singing that He calls him the Sikh for whom Gur has become the true, the Satgur.
Can your preachers transfer the Gur to human beings making it their true experience and transfer them, becoming true Sikhs?
Let it be another present to the true seekers of the Sikh world.
Balbir Singh
Dear all!
The question raised is "To the similar effect this line states that the name should be uttered as per guru's instructions. What would be its meaning?"
Truth does not have a meaning. Truth is as it is.
In a TV Interview in Los Angeles the moderator asked me the question "what is the difference between Gur and Satgur?"
I am surprised reading long articles and discussions about this. The answer can be as simple and short as Gurdev's Vaak.
Gurdev clearly says "gur satgur kaa jo sikh akhaa-ay so bhalkay uth har naam Dhi-aavai." SGGS 305.
The true Sikh is one who has learned it. Strange, many call them a Sikh without learning true Simran.
Gur is the technique. Yet the Gur does not help much till it becomes Satgur (True Gur), the true experience.
This is the reason Gurdev is singing that He calls him the Sikh for whom Gur has become the true, the Satgur.
Can your preachers transfer the Gur to human beings making it their true experience and transfer them, becoming true Sikhs?
Let it be another present to the true seekers of the Sikh world.
Balbir Singh
Guru Nanak advises his devotees in the beginning as a training to awake in the ambrosial hours of the morning (Amrit-Vela), meditate on Ek-Ong-kar- God, sing His praises and contemplate on His greatness which will develop love for Him. Guru Nanak says He will hear the sincere prayer and would come down even to the simplest hut. There is no doubt that when we do seva and sing keertan at the Gurudwara, we do it sincerely and with faith. But I will tell you, my friends, there is always a hint of humai (ego) hidden in our actions as we think we are giving Him something. When we do good keertan, we wait for someone to say, “Wah, Wah.” But at the time that our overwhelming-ras-filled Guru calls “Amrit Vela”, there is no one there except Guru. Only Guru, pyareo, Guru (God). Then we please the Guru and the Guru only. The Guru loves us then. The Guru then has the chance to splash us with the Guru’s overflowing maddening prem, love, ras and jyot. The more this love is splashed on us, the more we are composed and reach near Him. The time that our loving Guru calls “Amrit Vela” is the beginning of sikhi. It is the time of enlightenment. It is the beginning of our path to the guru’s warm and sukh-sagar bosom. So He says let your intellect think of His greatness and His glorious virtues to fill the vacuum of His presence within. So it is singing of glorious virtues of God, which Guru Nanak has made as base to return back in gift and not the quantity. He says meditating on Him in this hour is a real gift in return. He hears the sincere prayer of the ant first than the elephant. To clear and specify the amrit velya Faridji illustrate, 'PrIdw rwiq kQUrI vMfIaY suiqaw imlY n BwAu ]Farid, musk is distributed at night. They, who are asleep get not a share.Only then it will be liked by God, 'qw sohwgix jwxIAY gur sbdu bIcwry ] Then she is known as the happy soul-bride, if she contemplates and reflects the Word of the Guru's Shabad in his life or in other word marry surat with sabd..SGGS 334.1.
Once the training period is over, then what ever time we pray it is amrit vela.
Regards sahni mohinder
In addition to that have been stated above one should also take following things into account
hau siqguru syvI Awpxw iek min iek iciq Bwie ] (26-4, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
I serve my True Guru with single-minded devotion, and lovingly focus my consciousness on Him.
and
ijn qUM syivAw Bwau kir syeI purK sujwn ] (52-5, isrIrwgu, mÚ 5)
Those who have served You with love are truly wise.
One can always refer to the Bani that states the basic qualities that one should have to understand the basics od as to how to become a person with purity of mind.One should also overcome the ego as well.
duie kr joiV KVI qkY scu khY Ardwis ] (54-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
With her palms pressed together, she stands, waiting on Him, and offers her True prayers to Him.
One can enlist other as well,if required.
hau siqguru syvI Awpxw iek min iek iciq Bwie ] (26-4, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
I serve my True Guru with single-minded devotion, and lovingly focus my consciousness on Him.
and
ijn qUM syivAw Bwau kir syeI purK sujwn ] (52-5, isrIrwgu, mÚ 5)
Those who have served You with love are truly wise.
One can always refer to the Bani that states the basic qualities that one should have to understand the basics od as to how to become a person with purity of mind.One should also overcome the ego as well.
duie kr joiV KVI qkY scu khY Ardwis ] (54-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
With her palms pressed together, she stands, waiting on Him, and offers her True prayers to Him.
One can enlist other as well,if required.
Could anyone kindly explain the meaning of the following line and also explain thefive virtues of reflective meditation that is being discussed here.
inrml jil n@wey jw pRB Bwey pMc imly vIcwry ] (437-1, Awsw, mÚ 1)
One bathes in the water of purity when it is pleasing to God, and obtains the five virtues by reflective meditation.
=================================
Shall be grateful for help and guidance
seeker07 ji
One obtains mukhti through Sat (truthful living, fairness, objectivity) Daya (compassion, the ability to take the suffering of others seriously, to relieve pain) Santokh (contentment, or freedom from envy and jealousy, greed and ambition) Nmrata (humility and benevolence toward others) and Pyare (moved, inspired by the love of God).
I suspect you have another question coming up shortly seeking a more sophisticated response. But that is the direct answer to your question. One should probably not interpret the image of bathing in the waters of purity literally.
(We did discuss the idea of bathing the water of purity some time ago on SPN)
And BTW - your quotation made me very happy. I could read the entire line, without the English, in the Roman transliteration alphabet. Have been working so hard at this. So thanks.
One obtains mukhti through Sat (truthful living, fairness, objectivity) Daya (compassion, the ability to take the suffering of others seriously, to relieve pain) Santokh (contentment, or freedom from envy and jealousy, greed and ambition) Nmrata (humility and benevolence toward others) and Pyare (moved, inspired by the love of God).
I suspect you have another question coming up shortly seeking a more sophisticated response. But that is the direct answer to your question. One should probably not interpret the image of bathing in the waters of purity literally.
(We did discuss the idea of bathing the water of purity some time ago on SPN)
And BTW - your quotation made me very happy. I could read the entire line, without the English, in the Roman transliteration alphabet. Have been working so hard at this. So thanks.
It is very kind of you aadji that you remember many things. Yes, I do congratulate you for a fine memory. A fine person should always have a refined memory. Yes, you should be working very hard. Thanks are accepted for onward transmission.
Regards !
Archived_member2
Archived
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Seeker07 Jee!
Thanks for the wonderful reference from Gurdev explaining the experience Prabhu Jee showing love to Guru Jee.
Gurdev is singing.
inrml jil n@wey jw pRB Bwey pMc imly vIcwry ] (437-1, Awsw, mÚ 1)
With soft Jal bathes when liked by Prabhu. Five meet, contemplating.
This experience is only possible through true Naam Simran, not by analyzing true Guru's words.
Balbir Singh
Dear all and Seeker07 Jee!
Thanks for the wonderful reference from Gurdev explaining the experience Prabhu Jee showing love to Guru Jee.
Gurdev is singing.
inrml jil n@wey jw pRB Bwey pMc imly vIcwry ] (437-1, Awsw, mÚ 1)
With soft Jal bathes when liked by Prabhu. Five meet, contemplating.
This experience is only possible through true Naam Simran, not by analyzing true Guru's words.
Balbir Singh
gurU (iek) smuMdr hY, gurU rqnW dI Kwx hY, aus ivc (suc`jI jIvn-is`iKAw dy), AnykW rqn hn [ (hy shylIey! aus ivc) pMjy igAwn-ieMidRAW mn qy bu`DI smyq ieSnwn kr, qyrw mn pivqR ho jwiegw [
- jIv (gur-Sbd rUp) pivqR jl ivc qdoN hI ieSnwn kr skdw hY jdoN pRBU ƒ cMgw l`gdw hY, (gurU dy Sbd dI) ivcwr dI brkiq nwl ies ƒ (sq, sMqoK, dieAw, Drm qy DIrj) pMjyhI pRwpq ho jWdy hn, Aqy kwm k®oD Kot (mwieAw dw moh Awidk) iqAwg ky jIv sdw-iQr pRBU-nwm ƒ Awpxy ihrdy ivc vsw lYNdw hY [
Respected Balbir ji,
I am giving below the translation as is given in Dr. Sahib Singh ji's Teeka. I had to refer to it on account of the cue given by you that it is not for us to understand the meaning. But we all do try. Hope the above translation will be of help. In terms of english the qualities would be as follows:
1.Truth
2.Contentment
3. Compassion@
4.Righteousness
5. Patience
==
@ I am not sure if 'daya' would get translated to compassion or 'kindness' and /or something more or less the same.[on account of other's sufferings]
The post of aad ji refers to almost the same:
One obtains mukhti through Sat (truthful living, fairness, objectivity) Daya (compassion, the ability to take the suffering of others seriously, to relieve pain) Santokh (contentment, or freedom from envy and jealousy, greed and ambition) Nmrata (humility and benevolence toward others) and Pyare (moved, inspired by the love of God).
translation/
Thx and rgds
seeker07 ji
Actually, you have a good point to make about "daya" because when you think about it -- empathy is probably a better way to understand it. Empathy includes compassion, the ability to understand another's pain, and the motivation to do something to make things right, if even in small ways.
Balbir ji, I also agree with your statement
This experience is only possible through true Naam Simran, not by analyzing true Guru's words.
In order to have a sensible conversation, we have to agree on the meanings of words. This is obvious. However, in trying to understand in a deeper sense, analysis is an obstacle. And meditation and simran make meanings clear at a deeper level.
My opinion only.
Actually, you have a good point to make about "daya" because when you think about it -- empathy is probably a better way to understand it. Empathy includes compassion, the ability to understand another's pain, and the motivation to do something to make things right, if even in small ways.
Balbir ji, I also agree with your statement
This experience is only possible through true Naam Simran, not by analyzing true Guru's words.
In order to have a sensible conversation, we have to agree on the meanings of words. This is obvious. However, in trying to understand in a deeper sense, analysis is an obstacle. And meditation and simran make meanings clear at a deeper level.
My opinion only.
- Jul 14, 2007
- 4,576
- 1,609
This is the full shabad:
AASAA, FIRST MEHL:
The unstruck melody of the sound current resounds with the vibrations of the
celestial instruments. My mind, my mind is imbued with the Love of my Darling Beloved. Night and day, my detached mind
remains absorbed in the Lord, and I obtain my home in the profound trance of the celestial void. The True Guru has revealed
to me the Primal Lord, the Infinite, my Beloved, the Unseen. The Lord.s posture and His seat are permanent; my mind is
absorbed in reflective contemplation upon Him. O Nanak, the detached ones are imbued with His Name, the unstruck melody,
and the celestial vibrations. || 1 || Tell me, how can I reach that unreachable, that unreachable city? By practicing
truthfulness and self-restraint, by contemplating His Glorious Virtues, and living the Word of the Guru.s Shabad. Practicing the
True Word of the Shabad, one comes to the home of his own inner being, and obtains the treasure of virtue. He has no stems,
roots, leaves or branches, but He is the Supreme Lord over the heads of all. Practicing intensive meditation, chanting and selfdiscipline,
people have grown weary; stubbornly practicing these rituals, they still have not found Him. O Nanak, through
spiritual wisdom, the Lord, the Life of the world, is met; the True Guru imparts this understanding. || 2 ||AASAA, FIRST MEHL:
The unstruck melody of the sound current resounds with the vibrations of the
celestial instruments. My mind, my mind is imbued with the Love of my Darling Beloved. Night and day, my detached mind
remains absorbed in the Lord, and I obtain my home in the profound trance of the celestial void. The True Guru has revealed
to me the Primal Lord, the Infinite, my Beloved, the Unseen. The Lord.s posture and His seat are permanent; my mind is
absorbed in reflective contemplation upon Him. O Nanak, the detached ones are imbued with His Name, the unstruck melody,
and the celestial vibrations. || 1 || Tell me, how can I reach that unreachable, that unreachable city? By practicing
truthfulness and self-restraint, by contemplating His Glorious Virtues, and living the Word of the Guru.s Shabad. Practicing the
True Word of the Shabad, one comes to the home of his own inner being, and obtains the treasure of virtue. He has no stems,
roots, leaves or branches, but He is the Supreme Lord over the heads of all. Practicing intensive meditation, chanting and selfdiscipline,
people have grown weary; stubbornly practicing these rituals, they still have not found Him. O Nanak, through
The Guru is the ocean, the mountain of jewels, overflowing with jewels. Take your bath in the seven seas, O my mind, and
become pure. One bathes in the water of purity when it is pleasing to God, and obtains the five virtues by reflective
meditation. Renouncing sexual desire, anger, deceit and corruption, he enshrines the True Name in his heart. When the waves
of ego, greed and avarice subside, he finds the Lord Master, Merciful to the meek. O Nanak, there is no place of pilgrimage
comparable to the Guru; the True Guru is the Lord of the world. || 3 || I have searched the jungles and forests, and looked
upon all the fields. You created the three worlds, the entire universe, everything. You created everything; You alone are
permanent. Nothing is equal to You. You are the Giver . all are Your beggars; without You, who should we praise? You
bestow Your gifts, even when we do not ask for them, O Great Giver; devotion to You is a treasure over-flowing. Without the
Lord.s Name, there is no liberation; so says Nanak, the meek. || 4 || 2 ||become pure. One bathes in the water of purity when it is pleasing to God, and obtains the five virtues by reflective
meditation. Renouncing sexual desire, anger, deceit and corruption, he enshrines the True Name in his heart. When the waves
of ego, greed and avarice subside, he finds the Lord Master, Merciful to the meek. O Nanak, there is no place of pilgrimage
comparable to the Guru; the True Guru is the Lord of the world. || 3 || I have searched the jungles and forests, and looked
upon all the fields. You created the three worlds, the entire universe, everything. You created everything; You alone are
permanent. Nothing is equal to You. You are the Giver . all are Your beggars; without You, who should we praise? You
bestow Your gifts, even when we do not ask for them, O Great Giver; devotion to You is a treasure over-flowing. Without the
I shall have a re-look after 2/3 days with fresh mind. it is getting fairly complicated.
There seems to be difference of opinion amongst the english translators as well. It is the prerogative of the translators that they are quoting that they have to and we are ,probably, getting involved for no big reason. I can count of five other virtues that is controlling five passions and be in the opposite state of affairs i.e without kaam, krodh , lobh, moh and ahankar. Some one may prioritise another five that suits one. There cannot be any five standard for this. It is the way I presume now.
Thanks and regards respected Begum ji.
There seems to be difference of opinion amongst the english translators as well. It is the prerogative of the translators that they are quoting that they have to and we are ,probably, getting involved for no big reason. I can count of five other virtues that is controlling five passions and be in the opposite state of affairs i.e without kaam, krodh , lobh, moh and ahankar. Some one may prioritise another five that suits one. There cannot be any five standard for this. It is the way I presume now.
Thanks and regards respected Begum ji.
Understanding Gurbani
May kindly go thru. the following lines. I shall be grateful if sangat put across opinion regarding :
1] the contextual meaning of lines numbered 5,6, and 7
2]What is the 'cave ' refrerred to in line no.5.
3] It is stated the God is stating the converstaion with devotees in the cave. Is it the cave of mind or in body?
Anyone can clarify?
Thanks and Regards
kIrqnu inrmolk hIrw ] (893-19, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
1.The Kirtan of the Lord's Praise is a priceless diamond.
Awnµd guxI ghIrw ] (893-19, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
2.It is the ocean of bliss and virtue.
Anhd bwxI pUMjI ] (893-19, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
3.In the Word of the Guru's Bani is the wealth of the unstruck sound current.
sMqn hiQ rwKI kUMjI]2] (893-19, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
4.The Saints hold the key to it in their hands. ||2||
pMnw 894
suMn smwiD guPw qh Awsnu ] (894-1, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
5.They sit there, in the cave of deep Samaadhi;
kyvl bRhm pUrn qh bwsnu ] (894-1, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
6.the unique, perfect Lord God dwells there.
Bgq sMig pRBu gosit krq ] (894-1, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
7.God holds conversations with His devotees.
May kindly go thru. the following lines. I shall be grateful if sangat put across opinion regarding :
1] the contextual meaning of lines numbered 5,6, and 7
2]What is the 'cave ' refrerred to in line no.5.
3] It is stated the God is stating the converstaion with devotees in the cave. Is it the cave of mind or in body?
Anyone can clarify?
Thanks and Regards
kIrqnu inrmolk hIrw ] (893-19, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
1.The Kirtan of the Lord's Praise is a priceless diamond.
Awnµd guxI ghIrw ] (893-19, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
2.It is the ocean of bliss and virtue.
Anhd bwxI pUMjI ] (893-19, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
3.In the Word of the Guru's Bani is the wealth of the unstruck sound current.
sMqn hiQ rwKI kUMjI]2] (893-19, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
4.The Saints hold the key to it in their hands. ||2||
pMnw 894
suMn smwiD guPw qh Awsnu ] (894-1, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
5.They sit there, in the cave of deep Samaadhi;
kyvl bRhm pUrn qh bwsnu ] (894-1, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
6.the unique, perfect Lord God dwells there.
Bgq sMig pRBu gosit krq ] (894-1, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
7.God holds conversations with His devotees.
- Jul 14, 2007
- 4,576
- 1,609
In the Gita, Lord Krishna says that Great Ones traverse into the cave starting from a place above the nose.
..................................
Yogis tried to control breathing through Kumbhak to achieve concentration of attention. It is a difficult process and everyone cannot practice it. Saints, therefore, do not interfere with the breathing function. They concentrate Their attention at the seat of the soul, behind and in the center of the two eyes, by means of Simran with the tongue of thought. If it is done with rapt attention, the soul will cease to flow out through the body pores. The body will then become senseless. It is only then after that the concentrated soul gets the contact of God.
.....................................................
More Later.
..................................
Yogis tried to control breathing through Kumbhak to achieve concentration of attention. It is a difficult process and everyone cannot practice it. Saints, therefore, do not interfere with the breathing function. They concentrate Their attention at the seat of the soul, behind and in the center of the two eyes, by means of Simran with the tongue of thought. If it is done with rapt attention, the soul will cease to flow out through the body pores. The body will then become senseless. It is only then after that the concentrated soul gets the contact of God.
.....................................................
More Later.
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