Parents Want Me To Marry A Woman Despite Me Being Gay. FEASIBLE ?

[Harkiran Kaur]

Think about the girl... is it really fair to trap an innocent girl into a marriage, when you won't genuinely love her? Sikh marriage is not for purpose to have sex. And it's not for purpose to have someone cook for you (learn to cook for yourself!) and it's certainly not for the man to gain a live in servant!!!!!!!!!
Marriage in Sikhism is literally union of two souls to the point that they become ONE soul in two bodies. The lavaans describe the process of the soul's journey to Waheguru and don't even speak of physical union.

If you marry the girl, you are doing her a HUGE injustice both in her life (she could actually have married someone who truly cared about her) and also spiritually.

Your parents are acting like the girl in this arrangement is just an object for you to use, for your convenience, without any regard for HER welfare!!! If you go along with this, you will be no better.

It would be better to just stay single and tell your parents that you wish to pursue a life of solitude and religious studies. Become a Granthi or something which takes all your time.

 

[ActsOfGod]

Think about the girl... is it really fair to trap an innocent girl into a marriage, when you won't genuinely love her? Sikh marriage is not for purpose to have sex. And it's not for purpose to have someone cook for you (learn to cook for yourself!) and it's certainly not for the man to gain a live in servant!!!!!!!!!
Marriage in Sikhism is literally union of two souls to the point that they become ONE soul in two bodies. The lavaans describe the process of the soul's journey to Waheguru and don't even speak of physical union.

If you marry the girl, you are doing her a HUGE injustice both in her life (she could actually have married someone who truly cared about her) and also spiritually.

Your parents are acting like the girl in this arrangement is just an object for you to use, for your convenience, without any regard for HER welfare!!! If you go along with this, you will be no better.

It would be better to just stay single and tell your parents that you wish to pursue a life of solitude and religious studies. Become a Granthi or something which takes all your time.

I understand that you care about the welfare of the girl. We all do. But passing judgement on the OP is not going to help the situation. He came here because he was struggling and is asking for help. He has possible suicide ideation. People have already advised him multiple times to seek counselling and see a doctor. He lives in a culture and society that is hostile towards him because of his sexual orientation. He has no one to turn to who understands his feelings. His parents are oblivious. He feels like he has no choices. He is most likely suffering from depression.

Do you really think it will be worthwhile to lecture and preach the obvious facts at him while he's in this state?

Put aside your own issues, and think about what you can say or do to help him. A Sikh will not judge, a Sikh will do her best to help a person in need, with love and compassion. The OP is in desperate need.

Respectfully,
[AoG]

 

[Seeker2013]

Thanks ActsOfGod for understanding .
Last evening I met another gay sikh who lived in same part of the city. I am a member of a gay group on facebook. Meeting him made me feel nice. No I know atleast 4 other gay sardars from the same group.
our community is no exception to homosexuals !
one lives in amritsar but no one seems as despondent as I am . so maybe I am doing something terribly wrong. Hopefully going out and meeting people will help me.
also thankfully I live in mumbai and am comparitively luckier than most gays in this country because i live in a big city with comparitively more resources.
funny thing is I didn't knew I was about to meet him until the evening . By coincidence we met.

you were right. If you have faith in god and guru, universe will conspire to make things better for you. One thing leads to another. I will keep my faith in him and hope everything gets well some way or the other.

"Gur ki sewa safal hai , je ko kare chit laye" (Service to guru is always rewarding if one does with true love)
"So keo bisre je ghaal na bhaane" (Why forget the one who doesn't let hard work go waste)

I do and will keep serving the guru and the sangat , wash their utensils , wash their shoes , do sewa.
and I know god will arrange things for me . If he can bless me when I was an atheist, why not now

PS: some of my hateful last posts were just non-sense. I hope you guys are wiser to know it was just a bout of frustration with no essence. Even if I do marry a girl , it wud be someone who knows about it. but then again, why wud a girl marry a gay guy anyway. it wud be tough to find such a girl

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

I meant nothing Malays against being homosexual in any way. But to contemplate marrying a girl just to keep appearances is wrong because the girl also deserves better. And Seeker deserves to be happy too!
The choices are:
1 tell your parents that you want to be happy and so you won't marry a girl also because it's unfair to the girl. This means you can then find a suitable partner. You can also adopt or find a girl who will surrogate for you so you can still father a child with artificial insemination. Your Mother will still have a grandchild. This option however you will never be able to take Amrit.. Because once you take Amrit sex outside of marriage is adultery and breaks your Amrit. And I doubt you will be able to do Anand Karaj as two males.
2 Remain celibate and pursue religious study and seva. It avoids questions about sexuality all together and you can still take Amrit
3 marry a girl and live a 'fake' marriage.. If you dot his please don't do it without her knowing or agreeing. It would most likely be a lesbian woman in the same boat as you. But same thing sex outside marriage is frowned upon and so you could never take Amrit.

Whatever you choose to do I will pray Waheguru will be with you.

 

[chazSingh]

what about my life ?
also (while I don't feel the need to clarify this, I will clarify again) , The last post reeking of hatred (actually just showing you "straight" people the mirror. It was written in a sense of frustration rather than my actual plans of future.
I showed u the mirror. This is exactly how we gay people feel too ! infact u people do it way more worse ! gay people and gay community still warn me of ruining an innocent girls life.
you "straight" people throw your little kids out for being gay ? who reeks of hatred ?

I am more smarter than ruining a girls life? why shud I add more negative karma on my account by ruining her life ?
but you "straight" people should be thinking how much negative karma you peeps added in your account while so many LGBT worldwide are treated like animals , or worse ! no wonder we have people in the western hemisphere with 3 divorces talk of "sanctity of marriage"

I hate the whole human species so much at times that I won't bat an eyelid before treasoning against human species if an alien species wanted to enslave whole humanity. I have at times prayed for asteroids to wipe out humans ! How ashamed the other "normal" 98% of you must should feel that you have successfully made a human hate humanity itself.

While you people might have ruined my life, don't worry ! we will ultimately get to your level !
meanwhile you "normal" tyrants can go out and enjoy your 20's and 30's , your weddings , receptions and banquets , your social and legal acceptance, your representation in an advertisement placed on a hoarding board, and more ! and hold hands in public and don't forget to take a {censored} on us people, because we are defective pieces.
BREEDERS

also I don't give a rats *** if my post gives u a negative impression of gays. I have already lost hope on straight people . Maybe global warming will get you 'homo sapiens' !

hey Seeker,

just think for a moment...even straight people have their problems...look around you...it's not only you...its everyone..

the fat person who switches the t.v on or reads a magazine and thinks society only wants thin people....overweight kids being bullied in school.
special needs kids getting bullied in school and society not giving them a chance.
ethnic minorities being looked at differently within the working environment..
the list goes on....and on...

the moment you start to think it's only you that has the 'real' problem...the moment you lose.

becoming a vigilante won;t help you....being smart will. Did you forget that you have a heart, and a mind? get yourself together and put all that anger, frustration energy into something positive..

Don;t let yourself get lost in bitterness...

God Bless

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Exactly what Chaz Singh Ji said...

There are 'Singhs' who consider that because I am female, I should not be allowed to have the same rights in Sikhism as them. I can link you tons of hate filled posts because I dared to challenge the Charitropakhyan, which is used to paint women in bad light as temptress, deceiver, and lustful while it paints males as their hapless victims. I also pointed out some contradictions in some Rehet Maryadas which are not the accepted panthic rehet maryada by Akal Takht. Of course these guys think their rehet maryada is the right one so they think its perfectly fine to put Sikh Rehet maryada down, and then continue to spout their hatred of women, using their rehet maryada as justification. Some of the things I have been told only recently:
- As a woman I am impure during certain times so I must be restricted from seva of SGGSJ
- As a woman I am to see men as God over me (or the term used was demi-Gods)
- I was told that a woman's body is a 'downgrade' to a male body and that devi/devtay only wish to have male human form and not a female one.
- Also that a female body can not be 'manukeh deh' and that women are seen as only 'half of something' I forget the word used it began with A. So they think women are only half-humans...
- I was told that being born female is a punishment for bad karma, with a lame attempt at twisting one Gurbani tuk to support it
- I was told that as a woman I am to be 'obedient' to my husband, and serve him as 'Pati Parmeshwar' a God over me. (This is a Hindu concept, not a Sikh one and Gurbani actually says as Gurmukh to see ALL with a single eye of equality for in each and every heart the divine light is contained) Women are not servants of men....
- Because I advocated for equal rights of Sikh women, I was told to leave the forum on more than one occasion, and actually told thaty Sikhi would be better without me because I was trying to change it
- I was accused of hating men (for wanting to be treated equally) while their outright degrading comments about women are somehow not hatred of women
- I was told that because all the Gurus were male, it shows how women are not to be leaders
- I was told that the idea of women doing seva as Panj Pyaras is blasphemous, because the first five were male, and "no woman gave her head that day" so therefore all women must be punished for all time
- I was actually told that women should be barred from seva of SGGSJ at all, because we could you know start our period at any time unknowingly and in the process 'desicrate' SGGSJ
- The woman holds the palla during anand karaj and follows the man because the man is leader and in charge over his wife. She must 'follow' him and obey him.

So while you might be frustrated at your situation romantically... at least you can go into a Gurdwara and be seen as an equal when it comes to spirituality and seva. You dont need to tell people your orientation... but at least you are male and can enjoy the male privilege.

I had no idea until recently that so many Singhs think so lowly of Singhnis. So I can say though our situations are a bit different, I know how you are feeling. But you might say ...at least you can get married right? My answer to that: To do what? if I followed what these Singhs are saying, marriage is just bonded slavery of the woman so the man can enjoy life. Luckily I found a Singh who also advocates for equality of Sikh women. He sees me as his equal, but let me tell you, both anand karaj and amrit sanchar had aspects that I found difficult to swallow as a woman. Amrit Sanchar uses Benti Chaupai which is conclusion of Charitropakhyan and Charitropakhyan is the writing attributed to Guru Gobind Singh Ji which puts women into a very bad light. Did our Guru think this lowly of SInghnis? The Gurus are infallible, so are we really that way? Did he really think of us as only lustful, decietful and out to trick men? Or is Charitropakhyan really written by Guru Gobind Singh JI? I challenged this question, and was basically called the lowest and told leave the forum and that Sikhi was better off without me.

So while your problem might seem bad... if you keep your sexuality to yourself you can at least enjoy the privilege of being a male and not hated by other Singhs.

And yes this issue has affected me so badly I thought of leaving Sikhi, and was in tears numerous times...

 

[chazSingh]

Exactly what Chaz Singh Ji said...

There are 'Singhs' who consider that because I am female, I should not be allowed to have the same rights in Sikhism as them. I can link you tons of hate filled posts because I dared to challenge the Charitropakhyan, which is used to paint women in bad light as temptress, deceiver, and lustful while it paints males as their hapless victims. I also pointed out some contradictions in some Rehet Maryadas which are not the accepted panthic rehet maryada by Akal Takht. Of course these guys think their rehet maryada is the right one so they think its perfectly fine to put Sikh Rehet maryada down, and then continue to spout their hatred of women, using their rehet maryada as justification. Some of the things I have been told only recently:
- As a woman I am impure during certain times so I must be restricted from seva of SGGSJ
- As a woman I am to see men as God over me (or the term used was demi-Gods)
- I was told that a woman's body is a 'downgrade' to a male body and that devi/devtay only wish to have male human form and not a female one.
- Also that a female body can not be 'manukeh deh' and that women are seen as only 'half of something' I forget the word used it began with A. So they think women are only half-humans...
- I was told that being born female is a punishment for bad karma, with a lame attempt at twisting one Gurbani tuk to support it
- I was told that as a woman I am to be 'obedient' to my husband, and serve him as 'Pati Parmeshwar' a God over me. (This is a Hindu concept, not a Sikh one and Gurbani actually says as Gurmukh to see ALL with a single eye of equality for in each and every heart the divine light is contained) Women are not servants of men....
- Because I advocated for equal rights of Sikh women, I was told to leave the forum on more than one occasion, and actually told thaty Sikhi would be better without me because I was trying to change it
- I was accused of hating men (for wanting to be treated equally) while their outright degrading comments about women are somehow not hatred of women
- I was told that because all the Gurus were male, it shows how women are not to be leaders
- I was told that the idea of women doing seva as Panj Pyaras is blasphemous, because the first five were male, and "no woman gave her head that day" so therefore all women must be punished for all time
- I was actually told that women should be barred from seva of SGGSJ at all, because we could you know start our period at any time unknowingly and in the process 'desicrate' SGGSJ
- The woman holds the palla during anand karaj and follows the man because the man is leader and in charge over his wife. She must 'follow' him and obey him.

So while you might be frustrated at your situation romantically... at least you can go into a Gurdwara and be seen as an equal when it comes to spirituality and seva. You dont need to tell people your orientation... but at least you are male and can enjoy the male privilege.

I had no idea until recently that so many Singhs think so lowly of Singhnis. So I can say though our situations are a bit different, I know how you are feeling. But you might say ...at least you can get married right? My answer to that: To do what? if I followed what these Singhs are saying, marriage is just bonded slavery of the woman so the man can enjoy life. Luckily I found a Singh who also advocates for equality of Sikh women. He sees me as his equal, but let me tell you, both anand karaj and amrit sanchar had aspects that I found difficult to swallow as a woman. Amrit Sanchar uses Benti Chaupai which is conclusion of Charitropakhyan and Charitropakhyan is the writing attributed to Guru Gobind Singh Ji which puts women into a very bad light. Did our Guru think this lowly of SInghnis? The Gurus are infallible, so are we really that way? Did he really think of us as only lustful, decietful and out to trick men? Or is Charitropakhyan really written by Guru Gobind Singh JI? I challenged this question, and was basically called the lowest and told leave the forum and that Sikhi was better off without me.

So while your problem might seem bad... if you keep your sexuality to yourself you can at least enjoy the privilege of being a male and not hated by other Singhs.

And yes this issue has affected me so badly I thought of leaving Sikhi, and was in tears numerous times...

Harkiran,

you have been blessed countless times spiritually...to know that you are more than the human body...blessing to do Simran and Seva...to see the inner worlds etc..

Isn't that the answer you need that Waheguru See's you as equal in His eyes...

what does it matter so much what other Sikhs think...there is corruption everywhere...in all walks of life...not much can be done to the hardwired thoughts of some people..

your connection with Waheguru is what allows you to determine the truth...don;t let those idiots make you lose that connected.

god bless

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

But we are told that Sangat is IMPORANT. And when a good deal of Sikhs around the world think this way of women... its very very difficult. You are also on that forum so you know what I have gone through on there. To think that there are SInghs who actually think women are half-humans and downgrades to men, here to 'obey' and 'serve' men as demi-Gods... My point was not to hijack the thread, but to show Seeker that his problem is not as bad as he thinks in grand scheme of things. At he can be fully accepted in Sangat no matter where he goes, no matter which Jatha or Sect he visits, he will be respected because he is male. He doesn't have to advertise his sexuality in Sangat. But he is a male and will be respected for being male. While as a female I will always be looked down upon, made to think I am inferior to men, made to think there is something inherently wrong with the female form, and have restrictions placed on me with seva etc. Seeker can go to Darbar Sahib and do Palki Sahib Seva or Kirtan there... I will never be able to because I am female. He can wash sanctum sanctorum there, I can't. He can do seva as one of Panj Pyaras while I can't in vast majority of palces. All of this even though Sikh Rehet Maryada says nothing of the sort... and specifically states women / men have the same rights to do ALL seva. So these 'idiots' actually have quite a strong influence and it directly affects me, and unless things change it always will.
Please be happy with what you DO have.

 

[Seeker2013]

I meant nothing Malays against being homosexual in any way. But to contemplate marrying a girl just to keep appearances is wrong because the girl also deserves better. And Seeker deserves to be happy too!
The choices are:
1 tell your parents that you want to be happy and so you won't marry a girl also because it's unfair to the girl. This means you can then find a suitable partner. You can also adopt or find a girl who will surrogate for you so you can still father a child with artificial insemination. Your Mother will still have a grandchild. This option however you will never be able to take Amrit.. Because once you take Amrit sex outside of marriage is adultery and breaks your Amrit. And I doubt you will be able to do Anand Karaj as two males.
2 Remain celibate and pursue religious study and seva. It avoids questions about sexuality all together and you can still take Amrit
3 marry a girl and live a 'fake' marriage.. If you dot his please don't do it without her knowing or agreeing. It would most likely be a lesbian woman in the same boat as you. But same thing sex outside marriage is frowned upon and so you could never take Amrit.

Whatever you choose to do I will pray Waheguru will be with you.

my views might offend some . sorry in advance.

1) What "amrit" are we talking of ? real amrit is gur-shabad. The waheguru mantar or any name of god for that matter, be it ram, hari, allah, khuda is the real amrit ! I don't say this, SGGS say this .
khande baate di paahul is a different thing and I don't have anything against ones who take it,
but amrit is not so easy ! real amrit is something that you DO, not something you DRINK !

2) I have thought about this before ! but I am just 25. life seems like a mountain if you're young and something wrong with you . I don't feel like being a religious scholar is wise decision because I will still feel lonely .

3) yeah, but again this is not as simple. what if she feels like moving on tomorrow with another man/woman?
and she will take the kid with her as well. I will be back to square one and worse this time

thats why my psychiatrist told me I have to come in right frame of mind to make a decision.
being angry, frustrated, guilty won't let me take a proper decision.

 

[Seeker2013]

hey Seeker,

just think for a moment...even straight people have their problems...look around you...it's not only you...its everyone..

the fat person who switches the t.v on or reads a magazine and thinks society only wants thin people....overweight kids being bullied in school.
special needs kids getting bullied in school and society not giving them a chance.
ethnic minorities being looked at differently within the working environment..
the list goes on....and on...

the moment you start to think it's only you that has the 'real' problem...the moment you lose.

becoming a vigilante won;t help you....being smart will. Did you forget that you have a heart, and a mind? get yourself together and put all that anger, frustration energy into something positive..

Don;t let yourself get lost in bitterness...

God Bless

I never said straight people don't have problems. Its just that when you have issues, they seem too big

 

[Seeker2013]

Exactly what Chaz Singh Ji said...

There are 'Singhs' who consider that because I am female, I should not be allowed to have the same rights in Sikhism as them. I can link you tons of hate filled posts because I dared to challenge the Charitropakhyan, which is used to paint women in bad light as temptress, deceiver, and lustful while it paints males as their hapless victims. I also pointed out some contradictions in some Rehet Maryadas which are not the accepted panthic rehet maryada by Akal Takht. Of course these guys think their rehet maryada is the right one so they think its perfectly fine to put Sikh Rehet maryada down, and then continue to spout their hatred of women, using their rehet maryada as justification. Some of the things I have been told only recently:
- As a woman I am impure during certain times so I must be restricted from seva of SGGSJ
- As a woman I am to see men as God over me (or the term used was demi-Gods)
- I was told that a woman's body is a 'downgrade' to a male body and that devi/devtay only wish to have male human form and not a female one.
- Also that a female body can not be 'manukeh deh' and that women are seen as only 'half of something' I forget the word used it began with A. So they think women are only half-humans...
- I was told that being born female is a punishment for bad karma, with a lame attempt at twisting one Gurbani tuk to support it
- I was told that as a woman I am to be 'obedient' to my husband, and serve him as 'Pati Parmeshwar' a God over me. (This is a Hindu concept, not a Sikh one and Gurbani actually says as Gurmukh to see ALL with a single eye of equality for in each and every heart the divine light is contained) Women are not servants of men....
- Because I advocated for equal rights of Sikh women, I was told to leave the forum on more than one occasion, and actually told thaty Sikhi would be better without me because I was trying to change it
- I was accused of hating men (for wanting to be treated equally) while their outright degrading comments about women are somehow not hatred of women
- I was told that because all the Gurus were male, it shows how women are not to be leaders
- I was told that the idea of women doing seva as Panj Pyaras is blasphemous, because the first five were male, and "no woman gave her head that day" so therefore all women must be punished for all time
- I was actually told that women should be barred from seva of SGGSJ at all, because we could you know start our period at any time unknowingly and in the process 'desicrate' SGGSJ
- The woman holds the palla during anand karaj and follows the man because the man is leader and in charge over his wife. She must 'follow' him and obey him.

So while you might be frustrated at your situation romantically... at least you can go into a Gurdwara and be seen as an equal when it comes to spirituality and seva. You dont need to tell people your orientation... but at least you are male and can enjoy the male privilege.

I had no idea until recently that so many Singhs think so lowly of Singhnis. So I can say though our situations are a bit different, I know how you are feeling. But you might say ...at least you can get married right? My answer to that: To do what? if I followed what these Singhs are saying, marriage is just bonded slavery of the woman so the man can enjoy life. Luckily I found a Singh who also advocates for equality of Sikh women. He sees me as his equal, but let me tell you, both anand karaj and amrit sanchar had aspects that I found difficult to swallow as a woman. Amrit Sanchar uses Benti Chaupai which is conclusion of Charitropakhyan and Charitropakhyan is the writing attributed to Guru Gobind Singh Ji which puts women into a very bad light. Did our Guru think this lowly of SInghnis? The Gurus are infallible, so are we really that way? Did he really think of us as only lustful, decietful and out to trick men? Or is Charitropakhyan really written by Guru Gobind Singh JI? I challenged this question, and was basically called the lowest and told leave the forum and that Sikhi was better off without me.

So while your problem might seem bad... if you keep your sexuality to yourself you can at least enjoy the privilege of being a male and not hated by other Singhs.

And yes this issue has affected me so badly I thought of leaving Sikhi, and was in tears numerous times...

its really sad !
but I bet these are the same guys who keep beard and took amrit just for the "macho-ness" of it, the same ones who barely understand the essence of sikhism !
they are the ones who like to keep a pretense.
We went astray the day we confused between 'sikh' and 'khalsa' , between 'sikh' and 'amritdhari'
khalsa is one sect of sikhi but we made 'khalsa'='sikh'
and threw out the udasis, nirmaley and others
we lauded the ones who took amrit as 'gurmukh' and those who trimmed their beards and hair as 'manmukh'. It could be the amritdhari is never waking up at amritvela but the one with trimmed beard does. but that hardly ever mattered to us !

 

[Seeker2013]

But we are told that Sangat is IMPORANT. And when a good deal of Sikhs around the world think this way of women... its very very difficult. You are also on that forum so you know what I have gone through on there. To think that there are SInghs who actually think women are half-humans and downgrades to men, here to 'obey' and 'serve' men as demi-Gods... My point was not to hijack the thread, but to show Seeker that his problem is not as bad as he thinks in grand scheme of things. At he can be fully accepted in Sangat no matter where he goes, no matter which Jatha or Sect he visits, he will be respected because he is male. He doesn't have to advertise his sexuality in Sangat. But he is a male and will be respected for being male. While as a female I will always be looked down upon, made to think I am inferior to men, made to think there is something inherently wrong with the female form, and have restrictions placed on me with seva etc. Seeker can go to Darbar Sahib and do Palki Sahib Seva or Kirtan there... I will never be able to because I am female. He can wash sanctum sanctorum there, I can't. He can do seva as one of Panj Pyaras while I can't in vast majority of palces. All of this even though Sikh Rehet Maryada says nothing of the sort... and specifically states women / men have the same rights to do ALL seva. So these 'idiots' actually have quite a strong influence and it directly affects me, and unless things change it always will.
Please be happy with what you DO have.

I am sorry that you have to go through this crap.
Can you please private message me the name of the forum where you got treated like this. just wanted to know.
ignore such people . Also being gay does affect the 'male privilege' in many ways. There is such a thing as "social masculinity" , basically how much of a man society sees u . for us gay guys, its pretty low.
thes ones who ridiculed u for being woman would have ridiculed me for being gay.
thats how it

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

I am sorry that you have to go through this crap.
Can you please private message me the name of the forum where you got treated like this. just wanted to know.
ignore such people . Also being gay does affect the 'male privilege' in many ways. There is such a thing as "social masculinity" , basically how much of a man society sees u . for us gay guys, its pretty low.
thes ones who ridiculed u for being woman would have ridiculed me for being gay.
thats how it

Even then, they see us as lower.
For you, if they even knew you were gay, they would only maybe see you as shunning your maleness... whereas for me,they see me as never even having it to begin with!

 

[chazSingh]

But we are told that Sangat is IMPORANT. And when a good deal of Sikhs around the world think this way of women... its very very difficult. You are also on that forum so you know what I have gone through on there. To think that there are SInghs who actually think women are half-humans and downgrades to men, here to 'obey' and 'serve' men as demi-Gods... My point was not to hijack the thread, but to show Seeker that his problem is not as bad as he thinks in grand scheme of things. At he can be fully accepted in Sangat no matter where he goes, no matter which Jatha or Sect he visits, he will be respected because he is male. He doesn't have to advertise his sexuality in Sangat. But he is a male and will be respected for being male. While as a female I will always be looked down upon, made to think I am inferior to men, made to think there is something inherently wrong with the female form, and have restrictions placed on me with seva etc. Seeker can go to Darbar Sahib and do Palki Sahib Seva or Kirtan there... I will never be able to because I am female. He can wash sanctum sanctorum there, I can't. He can do seva as one of Panj Pyaras while I can't in vast majority of palces. All of this even though Sikh Rehet Maryada says nothing of the sort... and specifically states women / men have the same rights to do ALL seva. So these 'idiots' actually have quite a strong influence and it directly affects me, and unless things change it always will.
Please be happy with what you DO have.

Sangat is very important...

but the true meaning of sangat is 'like minded individuals' that inspire each other to move closer to waheguru....therefore you let the mind be at peace so that all your energy can go into waheguru realization.

Seeker can hide his sexuality but why should he? the reaction he gets from people by hiding his sexuality is then just a lie...
with yourself, at least people are being honest with you and telling you how they feel...be it negative or positive, you can then decide to part company with them...adjust your sangat accordingly and move forward positively.

a lot of what you write above is "i will always be made to Feel' ... why will you always be made to feel this way? don;t you have friends and family that treat you equally? if so, why are you letting other peoples beliefs and thoughts make you feel a certain way...?

when you go with the mindset of 'i will always be looked down upon' , then even when people are not being sexist to you...you run the risk of still thinking it is sexist because you're expecting it.

but the ones that are being sexist....forget them...they will only bring you to their level where you spend a lot of your energy trying to convince them...when they just can't be convinced...

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Very true. I'm not going to go back there anymore.
I think there is a reason that forum has only myself and one other female. And she tries to agree with them most of the time putting herself down and it's sad to see it. This forum upholds Sikh Rehet Maryada not a jatha Maryada.. And also equality. Just wish people would start to post more again we used to have some great debates on here!!

Seeker I said can choose that as one of several choices. I wasn't saying that was his only choice.
In the end it's up to him. But same hung can be said find sangat that accepts him for who he is.

 

[chazSingh]

Very true. I'm not going to go back there anymore.
I think there is a reason that forum has only myself and one other female. And she tries to agree with them most of the time putting herself down and it's sad to see it. This forum upholds Sikh Rehet Maryada not a jatha Maryada.. And also equality. Just wish people would start to post more again we used to have some great debates on here!!

Seeker I said can choose that as one of several choices. I wasn't saying that was his only choice.
In the end it's up to him. But same hung can be said find sangat that accepts him for who he is.

i don;t think you should leave the other forum, i think you should just not give into other people's opinions or let them make you feel a certain way.
Even the Guru's were not able to get rid of sexism...the duality of the world in this age will mean there will be someone who thinks the opposite...you exists as part of the opposite to them.

stay in the forum, and give your view in order to provide the balance. i was thinking of leaving this forum once...but you learn quickly not to get too affected by people opinions...they have a right to give them even if you don;t agree...

keep sharing your views...someone somewhere is reading them and finding them useful...i know i enjoy reading them, on this forum and on the other

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

i don;t think you should leave the other forum, i think you should just not give into other people's opinions or let them make you feel a certain way.
Even the Guru's were not able to get rid of sexism...the duality of the world in this age will mean there will be someone who thinks the opposite...you exists as part of the opposite to them.

stay in the forum, and give your view in order to provide the balance. i was thinking of leaving this forum once...but you learn quickly not to get too affected by people opinions...they have a right to give them even if you don;t agree...

keep sharing your views...someone somewhere is reading them and finding them useful...i know i enjoy reading them, on this forum and on the other

Except, as a woman why is it that we only want to be seen as equals...
Many Singhs see this as hatred of men... like we are trying to take away their God given superiority or something. But putting women into an inferior role, with less privileges etc. expected to be submissive and obedient... they somehow don't see this a hatred of women at all.
So in their minds equality = hatred of men
Inferiority of women somehow doesn't = hatred of women??

I don't understand... They look at Gurbani instruction to see the divine light in ALL, but then attach a caveat to it "except if it's a woman and then see her as inferior instead" Though the word they use is often "different" or my personal favourite "equal but different" - When "different" equates to less privileges, how is that in any way equal??

Anyway, I posted my last to Ch******1 on there. I can't deal with the insults and name calling anymore.

 

[Seeker2013]

Except, as a woman why is it that we only want to be seen as equals...
Many Singhs see this as hatred of men... like we are trying to take away their God given superiority or something. But putting women into an inferior role, with less privileges etc. expected to be submissive and obedient... they somehow don't see this a hatred of women at all.
So in their minds equality = hatred of men
Inferiority of women somehow doesn't = hatred of women??

thats very similar to what 'christians' in the west say when gays ask for their rights
why do you hate us? why you attacking christianity ? but never care for opinion of such people, as such people have low IQ to begin with

Seeker can hide his sexuality but why should he? the reaction he gets from people by hiding his sexuality is then just a lie...

this !
also we can always continue the useless debate of who has it worse ? a woman can marry, not be called a 'freak of nature' , not be ridiculed by people of her own gender, not having to hide her sexual likes and dislikes, etc etc

 

[chazSingh]

Except, as a woman why is it that we only want to be seen as equals...
Many Singhs see this as hatred of men... like we are trying to take away their God given superiority or something. But putting women into an inferior role, with less privileges etc. expected to be submissive and obedient... they somehow don't see this a hatred of women at all.
So in their minds equality = hatred of men
Inferiority of women somehow doesn't = hatred of women??

I don't understand... They look at Gurbani instruction to see the divine light in ALL, but then attach a caveat to it "except if it's a woman and then see her as inferior instead" Though the word they use is often "different" or my personal favourite "equal but different" - When "different" equates to less privileges, how is that in any way equal??

Anyway, I posted my last to Ch******1 on there. I can't deal with the insults and name calling anymore.

they don't see past the illusion...the way they think will prevent them from experiencing that one'ness

 

[Seeker2013]

they don't see past the illusion...the way they think will prevent them from experiencing that one'ness

most of these guys are just amritdhari, dastaar-dhari in the first place to gain some respect and do some 'chaud' . They just want to use sikhi saroop of Guru Gobind Singh ji to gain worldly respect and be called 'sardarji' . Scratch that and there's nothing in them !
These are the guys in our community who hate 'bhaiyyas' (people from UP, bihar or anyone mona) . tell me aren't bhaiyyas human ? what gave sardars the right to treat them inferior, but we see so many of us do . We create our own enemies sometimes. Also hating a bhaiya is against universal love of sikhi.

we ourselves gave some people the impression that we're insensitive rowdies​