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Islam Quran - To All Sikh Students

Sep 4, 2005
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236
Punjab, India
Waheguru Je ke Fateh

When you start reading Gurbani like a parrot, you have lost the essence of Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Everywhere, throughout the Granth Sahib it is clearly mentioned again and again about the uselessness of reading scriptures unless you imbibe the teachings that are mentioned in it.

The main starting point of becoming a parrot is when we define for ourselves the strict code of reciting particular 'amount' of bani for a full day. We tend to set a target for a day and then become restless to complete that 'amount' of recitation before the day is over. Its just like setting a target for some business.

We sikhs have become like those pundits who believe in mantras and for whom recitation of mantras is most important and not understanding because mantras are said to have magical effects.

Our Babas give same type of mantras in the form of Gurbani and assure us that its recitation for a fixed number of times would relieve us of all our worries !!
 

S|kH

SPNer
Jul 11, 2004
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We Are PENN STATE!!
rkaur said:
WHY NOT SGGS JI FOR ALL MUSLIM YOUTHS! :advocate:

I was so shocked and surprised at the same time when I read this post, that how one can compare our SGGS with any other holy book. Not to mention as we all should remember this, that it was our guru's sons who were burried alive in the walls, it was our banda bahadur, whose son was put on ground alive, and his heart was taken out and forced into banda bahadur ji's mouth. I have seen this cruelity in many religions and Quran is something that I for one will never read.
Also I believe person who wrote this and believes so much into Quran is a vCS (Very Confused Sikh) I can't say he is not a sikh but he needs to read between the lines, and I wonder if he ever even read SGGS ji. And if he did than he should remember also being a sikh that it says very clearly that:
Pae gahe jab te Tumre tab te kou ankh tare nahi anyo.
Ram Rahim Puran Kuran anek kahain mat ek na manyo.


Since (I had honor of ) holding your (lotus) feet, none else merits to come under my glimpse. Ram, Rahim, Puranas and Kuran (referring Hindus, Muslims, and their respective scriptures), deliver multi-fold sermons, but I am votary of none of them.


Simrt’ Sastr bed sabhai bahu bhed kahain ham ek na janyo.

Sinmritties, Sasters and Vedas –all of them- try to indoctrinate me, introducing me to many of their (so called) Divine secrets, but I have no faith on them. O, Lord God- The weilder of Sword- all that I have said is due to Thy Mercy; Infact I have said nothing, it is your dictate!

WKWKF. god bless us all!


I recommend the SGGS for all muslim youth...but Im not a muslim, so I can't really make that reccomendation.

As far as the rest of your post is concerned...that because the Muslims committed evil deeds you will not read their holy book is kind of foolish.

Why do you read the SGGS when you know that Sikhs still believe in the caste system? That they kill their daughters if she does not marry a Jatt?
That their leaders are heavily corrupted, and drugs are very frequent in Sikh villages?

You blame ALL muslims for some of them having a bad intrepretation of the Quran, yet when you look at the Sikhs....its not like we follow the SGGS that good anyway.

We are talking about the HOLY QURAN, and NOT muslims.

Also I believe person who wrote this and believes so much into Quran is a vCS (Very Confused Sikh) I can't say he is not a sikh but he needs to read between the lines, and I wonder if he ever even read SGGS ji. And if he did than he should remember also being a sikh that it says very clearly that:
Pae gahe jab te Tumre tab te kou ankh tare nahi anyo.
Ram Rahim Puran Kuran anek kahain mat ek na manyo.


Since (I had honor of ) holding your (lotus) feet, none else merits to come under my glimpse. Ram, Rahim, Puranas and Kuran (referring Hindus, Muslims, and their respective scriptures), deliver multi-fold sermons, but I am votary of none of them.


Now I question you....how did one person say that phrase? How does one refer hindus/muslims to their respective scriptures, or claim that they are false in some methods without ever reading them? If your going to judge by the actions of muslims...than we have ALL the right to judge SGGS by the actions of the Sikhs.

And in that case, SGGS failed, the Quran failed, the Bible failed, religion failed, and God failed.

And if I'm a Very Confused Sikh...:rofl!!:
 
Sep 11, 2005
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:idea: PUZZLED ARE THE PEOPLE


Puzzled are the people ,
Behind the tasteless mingled words,
But are somehow existing in this world,
Carrying the heavy burden of empty words,

Some are singing the Non rythmic,
Tunes Of suppressing Emotions and Breeding Illusions,
Some are singing the Melodies ,
Trying to prove themselves as Zen.


 
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Jul 30, 2004
1,744
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Gurfateh
Das has both Shia version as well as Wahabi version of Holy Kuran.

Das wants to reming that as per Jaffernammah holy Kuran is word of God.

Anyway by reading Holy Kuran Das can say that his faith in Akal is risen.

Yet inspite of this due to advent of Gurmat and if we tread the the Path of Guru without reading holy Kuran also any human being can attain salvation.

Reading does not mean that we follow it as we already follow the path of Akal who is Allah and who is Yehova.
there is need to publish the Sikh version of Holy Kuran ie explantion of Holy Kuran based upon Gurbani and that will open the eyes of a few disgruntled Wahabis.
 

singh4u

SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
2
0
I reccommend the Quran to all Sikh students.
- THIS TITLE ITSELF SHOWS YOUR INTENTION......THIS IS A SIKH WEBSITE, LETS EXPLORE SGGS FULLY!! THERE IS SO MUCH INNER BEAUTY WHICH I BET YOU DONT EVEN KNOW!!

I treat "holy" books as intelligence, not divine order or necessarily divine truth. That's why I can read the Bible and Koran and just intake the amount of intelligence they hold without becoming a follower of the actual religion. I can read the SGGS and contemplate it rather than just assume its truth.
- THERE IS A LOT OF INTELLIGENCE IN SGGS TOO

Even though I am not Khalsa yet, I will only become and be part of the Khalsa Panth.

So, here me out and why I put this strong reccomendation to all Sikh students. And by students, I do not mean Sikh Youth, I mean people who have practiced/read/and actively follow the Sikh religion and Sikh politics.

Islam is the active submission to God. It's a psychological cleansing to eradicate your mind and submit your dues to God.
- SIKHISM HAS THE SAME, EXCEPT HERE YOU ARE NOT IN FEAR SUBMISSION BUT WITH LOVE, TRY TO UNDERSTAND THAT. IN ISLAM YOU ARE IN FEAR OF CRUEL HARSH PUNISHMENTS IN HELL.

There is wisdom in those books but it is useless to most. The word of God is useless to one that can only read it and not live it. Islam to me is a powerful religion that is based on a mental strength and submission to God. In that submission it clears the psychological path to the other side of your self.
- IS THAT WHY WE HAVE SO MANY ISLAMIC TERRORISTS? AND TO ERADICATE ALL KUFIRS (LIKE SIKHS) NOTHING TO CLEAR HERE. EVEN THE QUIET MUSLIMS AGREE ISLAM SHALL DOMINATE IN THE END.

For if there is a hope in you, the dream to do good, to succeed and to prosper, and then it is only logical to assume there is another side. If life struggles to prolong itself and to maintain its existence, then something within you must work towards self annihilation.
-SAME IN SIKHISM WHICH YOU HAVE FAILED IN THIS SENSE? SAME THING IN BIBLE.
YOU MISSED THEIR MESSAGE OF LOVE?? WHY?? LOOK AT BUDDHISM......MOST PEACEFUL FAITH EVER.

For all the good in you there must be a part of you that lives in the complacency of failure and works toward negativity. Islam addresses that struggle, it gives people inner strength that have nothing. Being one with God makes those parts of you clearer to see.
- ISLAM HAS MIXTURE OF CHRITIANITY AND JUDASIM ......AND HINDUISM SO THERE IS NOTHING UNIQUE IN ISLAM.....PLEASE UNDERSTAND. YOU WOULD HAVE A POINT IF IT WAS A MUCH EARLIER FAITH......

As a Sikh growing up, when you see history/Gurus/1984 you are filled with the need to make a change, to progress, and to do good for all. You see the Guru's lifestyle and you want to accomplish what they did, you want to lead, you want tos ucceed and prosper, and help out every human whose suffereing. Then, you face current society, you face your own community whose become so corrupted. This is exactly what I mean by the wars of the mind. One side seeks good, while the other starts to seek self-annlihation. Me, and many sikhs that I've spoken to, have at times become so fed up and sad with the state of the Sikhs, or the future of the Sikhs that they feel they should jus give up.
- GO TO PAKISTAN, IRAQ AND YOU WILL RUN BACK TO SIKHISM... MUSLIM GROUPS HATE EACH OTHER I.E. SUNNI, SHI-ITE, AHMDAIYA... YOU WILL RUN AND LOVE SIKHISM MORE......WE DONT HAVE A BIG PROBLEM AS MUCH AS THEM.

Everyone sees the Sikh identity going away, even as uncles begin to tell you that you dont need kesh anymore, and you see your children may give it away too. So what's the point, if eventually someone will cut it. This is what I mean by self-annlihation. I do not mean suicide, but eradicating your own self, your own culture, and "giving in".
- THIS IS THE 'SAROOP' NOW LETS FOCUS ON LOVE OF GOD IN SGGS

I've only read and understood part of the Quran, but even the little I have, it does help, and I recommend it to all children of the same league as me.
- SO YOU ARE NOT EVEN TRYING SGGS? AND YOU WILL NOT RECOMMEND IT TO CHILDREN? READ IT ALL!!!!! SEE....... READ THE SAKHIS.

At times, I feel as reading the SGGS it does not factor in the struggle of the mind that I face at times, hence where the Quran can come in as a factor.
- THAT IS YOUR OPINION, I PERSONALLY FOUND BUDDHISM APPEALING, HOWEVER SGGS STANDS OUT IN THE CROWD.

IF YOU CANT READ THE SAKHIS, AND SGGS, THEN READ ABOUT HEAVEN FOR MALES .AND WHAT HAPPENS TO A WIFE WHO DOESNT LISTEN TO YOU. DONT JUST READ ONE PART AND FALL IN LOVE. TASTE THE WHOLE APPLE.


Moderators Note : Dear Fellow Spirtual friends Try to avoid being personal in discussions it basically makes you miss the point and creates confusion.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Admin

SPNer
Jun 1, 2004
6,692
5,240
SPN
Amerikaur said:
Well, at least the signature file gives an idea of who Singh4U really is...

S|KH/Singh4U/whoever you are...

Why are you arguing with yourself under different names?

Dear Amerikaur ji,

Let me please clear your doubts on this issue. Actually, dear singh4u copied and pasted the whole post made by dear S|kh, that also included S|kh's signatures and then added his own comments under each point made by dear S|kh, so signatures which look like to be of singh4u are actually of dear S|kh, hence the confusion. I will make necessary amendments to clear the issue. :)

Admin Note: Comments irrelevant to this discussion have been removed and will be removed without notice in future as well. Dear Singh4u and all other members, if you had read the thread from starting, you would have found it much easier to understand the whole point of discussion. Let us avoid childish boasting. :)

Regards.
 
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Jul 13, 2004
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To much extent, I like the intention and willingness behind S|kh veer's post. I consider this as a heart warming step to bring more understanding and acceptance.

singh4u veer, I dont agree to much of what you said, probably because we expect a discussion oriented way here on SPN.

Warm Regards, Arvind.
 

halidarahman

SPNer
Sep 22, 2005
4
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Manhattan
Hi All,

I am moslem and reading all the articles regarding Quran was quite touching. Yes I was taught to read and understand all religion and respect the philosophies etc.

Recently I have taken up on educating myself about the Sikh religion. I think I am in love with the beauty of the Guru Granth Sahib. Sikh people I always found to be a happy group and your philosophy towards life makes it all happen.

Though Quran is a beautiful book, I think the religion itself is very rigid and creates a lot of fear .

Do I practice Islam? Not really, I guess I love to recite a few suras but I think having an open mind and accepting beauty and truth from all religion is acceptable for me.

So, thank you for encouraging people to read the Quran. Goodluck and happy reading.

Peace to you all.

Halida.
 

Amerikaur

SPNer
Feb 19, 2005
146
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America
Welcome, Halida! Peace to you too my friend. Looking forward to seeing more from you...I bet you have a very interesting perspective on Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Sikhi.
 
Jul 13, 2004
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After reading Halida's post, I would like to share an important moment of my daily routine, when the cassette player in my car recites:
Avval Allah noor upaya, kudrat ke sab bandey
Ek noor te sab jag upjaya, kaun bhale ko mandey

This is the moment, I normally put high volume to the player, and try to get absorb in that keertan. Just a few moments, but very very satisfying ones.
 
Sep 4, 2005
266
236
Punjab, India
Arvind said:
After reading Halida's post, I would like to share an important moment of my daily routine, when the cassette player in my car recites:
Avval Allah noor upaya, kudrat ke sab bandey
Ek noor te sab jag upjaya, kaun bhale ko mandey

This is the moment, I normally put high volume to the player, and try to get absorb in that keertan. Just a few moments, but very very satisfying ones.

If a human being can understand this, there is nothing left to be understood spritually. This is the beauty of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Makes life so simple. Your relation with God is of Love and not fear. There is so much in this world for you to shower your love on.
 

japjisahib04

Mentor
SPNer
Jan 22, 2005
822
1,294
kuwait
My request before you suggest anyone to waste time in reading Quran, let them read the following comparison. Gurbani tells us one just need gian to instrtuct the mind how to be truthful and need not confine within the walls of books.

Though Muslims and Sikh religions shares belief in One Reality and are very much close to each other in many fundamentals like condemning of casteism, idol worship, but there is difference in other basic resolutions.
i) Sikh believe in reincarnation and deeds whereas in Muslims only one birth & death. Gurmat firmly believe either in merger into God by virtuous deeds or into re-incarnation thus didn’t agree with the theory of Islam that there is only one chance, there is only one way, and we are judged according to it and re-incarnation theory is absurd. A human can only exit the web of karma by meditating on Gurmat Naam and immersing the self into Akaal. Gurbani cautions,“ies pauri tai jo nar chukai so aaye jaey dukh paeda - that human whosoever does not live a truthful life and miss the opportunity of being human suffers in the form of re-incarnation.” - Guru Granth ang.1075.15. As a mother is compassionate so is God. With thousands of mistakes, the mother sometimes gets frustrated, but never stops loving the child. It is God who put that compassionate nature into the mother. How can we say God is not compassionate at all? The human will make thousands of mistakes in their life, no matter how holy they are, but God will always love them, help them, and be compassionate towards them. He gives them thousands of chances and these chances, which come in many forms, are called re-incarnation.
ii) Muslims believe in absolute God who resides in the Seventh world whereas Sikh believe in God who Himself is absolute and self-governing but cannot be contained in a certain place. Verses of Gurbani says, “nanak ka patshah dessai jaahra – Satguru Nanak’s God is right in His creation.” - Guru Granth ang.397.7. In addition Guru Nanak says listen O, people “nanak kahat suno rai logha sant rasan to baseeho - Waheguru lives on the tongue of the Saint (who has tamed his mind through sabd) a living person.” - Guru Granth ang.700.11.
iii) Muslims believe creation of world in six days (though time is subjective) and end on Roze-qiamat whereas Sikh view the universe as an act of instant creation - a spontaneous manifestation of the unattributed Primal God- and its dissolution. It also says no one knows how many times it has come into existence and how many times it has evaporated in flick of an eye blink. Gurbani tells us like this, “khin maithaph uthapda - in an instant, He establishes and disestablishes.” - Guru Granth ang.706.3. Thus it supports evolution theory as per science. It further believes it is a divine sport and “whenever it pleases Him He created the Universe and as He desires, He absorbs it back into Himself.” - Guru Granth ang.292.8. Besides this, Gurbani further says, “kaei baar pasreo pasaar - Many times He has expanded universal expansion, yet each time at the end (and before) abides the Sole Supreme Being.” - Guru Granth ang.276.13.
iv) Muslims yearn for Heaven whereas Sikh believe to merge back into God from whom we were separated - “As the waves of water merge again with the water, so does one light merge again into the Light.” - Guru Granth ang.102.7. Both faiths recognize the Oneness of God and regard it as human duty to follow what they describe as the hukm, the Divine Will. However, they differ on the content of this hukm. For Muslims, it can be derived from the Holy Koran, the hadith of the Prophet Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him), the consensus of the religious scholars (ijma)
and argument by analogy (ijtihad). The {censored} is the rebel, the unbeliever, who denies this hukm. For Sikhs, the hukm is unspeakable: "hukm na ka-ha ja-ye". It can only be realized when lived. Therefore, the emphasis is on personal experience rather than
social order. God's laws and truths are written in every human heart,they are inscribed in the very being of our nature, articulated in the body, mind and soul.
v) Muslims believe in fourteen worlds whereas Sikhism in millions of worlds and nether worlds. Gurbani says, “kot brahmand ko thakhur soami - He is God and Master of millions of universe.” - Guru Granth ang.612.5.
vi) Muslims embrace Shari’at whereas Sikh believes in Maryada, His command.
vii) Muslim believe Fasting, Jihad & ‘Sunat’ is their duty (which is not reflected in Quran whereas in Sikhism there is nothing like that but there are five ‘kakaar’ (Kaysh (long hair) ‘Stamp of Guru that you are a Sikh – a symbol of spirituality’, Kanga (comb) ‘a symbol of orderliness and cleanliness’ and to keep the hair. The uncut hair signified traditional ascetic renunciation but it was tamed by the comb which did not allow it to become matted thus symbolizing continued participation in the world; Kachehra (underwear) ‘signifies self control and restraint, to be jati and sati’, Kada (a steel bracelet) ‘to remind to cultivate in himself the awareness of immorality thus not to indulge in any wickedness’ & an iron bracelet an remind me that I am day and night in my Guru's bondage, superstition and to denote the universality of God, and Kirpan (sword) a symbol of power and dignity. It is an instrument of defense and protecting the weak. These ‘kakaar’ are used as article of faith for baptisms that are very much reflected in Guru Granth Sahib in symbolic language. It will be worth mentioning here that wearing of the kakaars is a symbolic acceptance of Guru Sahib's love and way of life. It's an acknowledgement of putting into practice one aspect of the maryada (code of conduct) handed down by the Guru. People however question that if the essence of religion is to love God, then why keep hair. Well if you love someone, and he gives a gift, what do you do with it? Throw it out of the window right in front of him and still say I Love you? Crush it under your feet and still say I love you.
vii) Further, when the foundation of any label is based on discrimination how could its essence merge us with truth – the Akal Purakh who is without descrimination (like Janeu was not allowed to be worn by shudra lower caste and sunnat cannot be performed on women).
viii) In addition, if circumcision makes one a Muslim, then what about a woman? She is the other half of a man’s body, and she does not leave him, so he remains a Hindu. Thus if Akal Purakh wished one to be a Muslim, it would be cut off by itself.” - Guru Granth ang.477.17. These values stress that the real religion for all mankind is one. In this way you shall be a true Hindu and Muslim. Generally typical answer for circumcision is given to be cleanliness. Does it mean Akal Purakh was imperfect and prophet Mohammad had to correct. Impossible - Mohammad was a Akal Purakh lover he never could have meant that “NEVER”. He kept saying that I am an imperfect one...and Akal Purakh (Allah) is great. Oh Akal Purakh YOU are GREAT! So how could he perfect the perfection of Akal Purakh? Even in Anjeel or new Testament (book revered by Islam) Jesus talks of circumsention of mind that matter. Sikhe is not hereditary - it has to be earned by each and every person. Our gurus were never in secured and thus never intended for babies to be forced to chhak amrit. This is the beauty behind Sikh revealed baani. Amrit is not a ritual (like circumcision/baptism/janeu etc.) but a serious commitment to a particular life style and ONLY an ADULT can make that CHOICE rationally made voluntarily. It is a basic tenets and counter measure in self-defense to the path of realization. committed to the tenets of their faith. And the PERSON goes to seek Amrit in complete submission. Therefore, having Amrit does require some outer inspection and inner inspection of the person. INCREASING the numbers of amritdharees by roping in helpless babies when they cannot make a choice is WRONG in Gurmat and as per Gurbani. How could one become a good soldier simply by wearing the uniform? No. First of all the army spirit has to be infused in. Then only one feels they have a goal and point of being here. Gurbani tells us ‘Truth is high, but higher still is truthful living’. Further the spread of Sikhi was never dependent on "interpretation of Gurbani". Sikhi spread through the example of those who practiced it -- who lived it, who walked the path. It was always the EXAMPLE of a Sikh, which inspired others to join the fold. That's how the number of Sikhs kept on increasing even when Governor of Lahore had declared a price on the head of a Sikh -- because the exemplary character of Sikhs inspired others onto the Guru's path, even when doing so meant to be on the run from the government of the day. By taking Amrit from Panj Pyaras Guru Gobind Singh ji put us on the same pedestal as he was on. He lowered himself in order to raise us up. WOW. What a Friend!!
viii) Islam believe to offer sacrifice of animal while reading holy hymn through the process of ‘halal’ with painful death (In old testament when Abraham (Abram at that time) sacrifices his child at that time his God tells him that kill animal by draining blood out of it as blood is life. Again Moses was also instructed on it. Islam does believe in Halal as Jews. Gurmat disagree that life is in blood and not in flesh. We believe God to be everywhere and not such discrimination based on matter, which is decay able. As God is Same in flesh as in blood so why shed blood) whereas Sikhism believes holy hymns from Guru Granth Sahib or any holy book are to glorify and please God, lead virtuous life and not to recite to kill a frightened and helpless animal. It is inconceivable that the Guru had any such bias, for the validity of other religions is freely accepted in Sikh thought. The Guru had noticed what he considered shortcomings in other faiths, but he seems to suggest that trans-valuation of values is the only right possible answer to the existence of such problems. Thus one thing is very clear, according to Sikh thought, if we slaughter an animal for eating and recite prayers along with it, that won't save us from our sin or do the animal any favor. In addition Sikhism does not believe to slaughter animal in the name of sacrifice but for survival and that too in case of crisis and not as an addiction and that too with ‘Jhatka’ (one stroke) and not ‘Halal’. I personally do not believe in the unnecessary killing of animals to satisfy our desires, when there are plenty of other resources available for our survival. It may be stated that eating or not eating meat has a religious sanction in all major faiths; for example, Kosher is allowed for Jews, Halal for Muslims, Bali for Hindus (killed in the name of Goddess). Secondly, some religions prohibit meat of certain animals; pork is prohibited for Muslims and Jews, and beef for Hindus. Some prohibit eating meat, or a particular kind of meat, on some days. Sikh faith is unique in not prescribing any such condition for eating meat, if it is needed to meet the hunger of a Sikh. Besides Gurbani suggests three golden rules for healthy life which are scientifically sound, “do not eat or get addicted to that is not pleasing to the body, that gives pain to the body or eat or drink that produce evil in the mind.” - Guru Granth ang.16.14. Addiction, not only to meat, but even to `things' of daily use (spouse, wealth, affluent life, etc.), is prohibited. Therefore the beauty is that the ultimate decision is left to our own individual common sense or what suits us best. In addition a logical question arises that Halal, Kosher or Brahminical rituals associated with food all claim to "purify" food. What does it signify? That man has the power to "purify" what God created. In other words, man can "improve" upon God.
ix) Unlike interpretation of Islam Sikhs are forbidden to believe that some days or months are auspicious. When you love and remember God, Gurmat says, it is a good day for you, when you ignore Him it is a bad day.
x) Unlike Sikhs who in their daily general and private prayer wish, “Nanak Naam chardhee kala. Terey bhanney Sarbatt da bhalla”, - welfare for the whole humanity irrespective of their religion, Muslims only say, “May peace be upon all Muslim brothers and sisters and may God guide to all Non-Muslim.
xi) Muslim believe if we exercise good conduct in this world, we can watch dances of nymphs in the heaven, over here if we do not consume wine, we will get ‘Somras’ in heaven, over here if we donate little, over there we get palaces studded with pearls and diamonds. If you convert someone to your faith you get so and so award (A great Muslim poet and theologist Dr. Mohammand Iqbal lashed out and said, “bahishto houron ghilma evjai taiet mai na manugha eini bbaataon sai vaez jeif emon hota hai - O preacher you have weaken my belief, if by reading holy scripts, praying and good conduct, gets me in paradise where I am promised fairy girls, wine, wealth and property, then even the heaven you have made into a market), Sikh are not looking for converts like vultures fan the skies for dead meat whereas in Sikhism there is no trade-in.
xii) Guru Nanak has offered no incentives such as nymphs, or houries or wealth etc. He says, “nanak kai ghar keval naam- Satguru Nanak’s home is filled with only Naam, the Name of God, His lotus feet - the cosmic hymn – the eternal bliss.” - Guru Granth ang.1136.16.
xiii) And as per Sikhism whosoever irrespective of any profession, caste status, religion have understood that “this human body conferred on us, is our only chance to merge back into God by reciting His glorious virtues from the core of heart, his toil is over to merge back into Him. This bliss is beyond wine, wealth and nymphs.” - Guru Granth ang.12.6, but those who don’t merged back, wander into cycle of reincarnation or suffer as per their deeds.
xiv) Since He is TRUTH, which is eternal and forever, Sikhism believes in the eternal Living Guru Granth Sahib for guidance, whereas Islam believes after Mohammad there is no messenger of God. Muslims believe in entire sentence ‘kalmah’ (la elahaa eel alaah - Mohammad -u- rasul aalah’ whereas Sikh does not relate first half with second half which declares no prophet or apostle will come after Mohammad and no new faith will be born " - Our apostles were our Gurus and now our living Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Inspite of this Islam claim a new faith Sikhism was born and which is a reality.
xv) Islam believe Mohamad is the last messenger and Islam is last religion and no more (prophet) would come again for protecting people at this present age of crime and insecurity??????? Whereas in Sikhism. In God’s infinite creation, there is no such thing as the last prophet or the last religion.
xvi) Muslim belief the body is made of four elements but gurbani tells us it is five elements and modern science has confirmed it is five and not four elements. (Earth, water, fire, air and fifth is soul, ether or spirit)
xvii) Whereas in Islam music is not permitted even outside of Mosque and considered to be a hindrance to counting the 99 names of Allah and disturb single mindedness, Sikhism believes music along with the their tunes is the vehicle to sing holy hymn which are composed in poetry and musicality adopted and are sung inside the Gurudwara and believes it awakens deeper layers of human heart and consciousness. Keertan is an added bonus because it has a music in it. It encompasses what is otherwise indescribable and incommunicable. Divine wisdom is laced with sweet melodious fragrance by different tunes. This divine melody tunes the soul with Rhythm Eternal.
xviii) Gurmat didn’t agree with the philosophy of resurrection that a judgment day will come when this soul will re-enter the body even after that body is turned into ashes. Gurbani tells us ‘Aapen khail aap kar dekhai, khail sakonchai tau nanak eikai - this all is the show of His sport and He Himself is watching this panorama. When He winds up His _expression then He alone will be left behind.” - Guru Granth ang.292.2. Though Gurmat accepts about winding up the show but conclude then He only will remain, and rejects the concept ‘that all human beings who have lived in the world since its inception will be restored to life and presented before Allah who will judge them on that day upon Absolute Justice. Obviously it is not true. However if you try to make sense in a way that the person who is not religious, his soul is dead in his body and body is graveyard for his soul, and if he follows religion his soul will resurrect in his body. It makes sense. Gurmat didn’t believe that soul remain standstill when as per the Will, it has continue process until it merges back with God. The Law cannot stop operating at any time. Even the most advance science has proved this point. So Gurmat distanced itself from this concept.
xix) Gurbani tells us 'manas ki jaat eko pehchanobo' or ek noor tai sabh jagh utrai kon bhalai kon mandhai, whereas teaching of Islam tells us that other than Muslims all are {censored} or malech.
xx) In Islam women are not permitted to join the congregation whereas Gurbani in line with equal rights to women specially invites them with following versus, “Come my sisters and spiritual companion! Clasp me close in your embrace. Let us join together and tell stories of our All Powerful Spouse (God).” - Guru Granth ang.17.16.
xxi) Islam believes praying on a particular day at Mecca fetches and is equal to hundred thousand prayers whereas Sikhism believes in level of love and devotion and not number of prayers.
xxii) One of most important ritual of every Muslim is to visit and pray at Mecca once in a life whereas it is not mandatory for Sikhism to pray at their holiest shrine Amritsar. For them wherever there is compilation of Guru Granth Sahib, it is the holiest of holy.
xxiii) Muslim bury body and ‘nafis’ (desires) in grave whereas Sikh believe at the time of death soul leaves the body and wander in many incarnation or merged back into Him as per the deeds or His grace,
xxiv) Islam believe Adam and Eve were the first creation, whereas as per gurmat and Sikhism ‘Nobody knows.’ And in one’s spiritual development, this piece of information is of no consequence. …. All tall claims by some that they know as to who was the first human? is nothing but a concoction of fairy tales of empty boastings.xxv) 1) Muslim believe in fasting that is why they consider Ramadhan a holy month and fast the whole month,, Guru Nanak says mission of mankind on Earth is to earn ‘Dharam’ by nurturing love, day and night from the core of heart while contemplating on His virtues and chanting His Name. How can a devotee by fasting, torturing, sufferings or suppressing appetite concentrate or devote to utter His Naam. Gurbani tells us, all these actions are the cause of deviation, thus it is only a hypocrisy. In relation to fasting Gurbani declared it this way, “Chodaih aan karai pakhand na oh suhaghan na o rand ] - one who fasts and discards food during purnmashi, karva choith, naratai, ramadhan, is practicing hypocrisy. He is like a rolling stone and is neither a happy soul-bride, nor a widow.” - Guru Granth ang.873.4. Besides it yields no bonus marks. It is not a mean to wash any sins, it is not a mean to fulfill any of your desires, and it is not a mean to please Akal Purakh or merge into Akal Purakh. We pose to abstain from food outwardly but from inside body suffers in pain and is disturbed with fire of desires. It is hypocrisy. If really eaten less, it stabilizes the agitation in mind. This is what Gurbani advises “Sleep little, and eat little; O learner Nanak, this is the essence of wisdom.” - Guru Granth ang.939.4. Thus Gursikhs are fasting everyday. This process described here does not overload the body and abuse the beautiful machinery/apparatus gifted to us FREE without any effort on our part. Gurbani thus advises instead earn the fruitful rewards by observing the fast of knowing your own self with a pledge not to speak lies at least that day. Gurbani proclaims, “sach varat santokh keerat gian dhayan isnan, deaya devta kheema japmaal tai manas pradhan - the most excellent are those who have truth as their fast, contentment as their sacred shrine of pilgrimage, spiritual wisdom and meditation as their cleansing bath, kindness as their deity, and forgiveness as their chanting beads.” – Guru Granth ang.1245.11.
xxvi) Whereas Sikhs are the only people in the world who have with them authenticitic Divine revelation with them in the language and words in which the same was received written by their own prophet where qoran was not written by Prophet Mohamd as direct revelation but was written after his death by 2nd umar upon heresay.
xxvii) As per Islam God said to Adam. ‘Do not eat of the apple’. That is, God was trying to say to Adam. Stop being inquisitive, you will bring problems upon yourself. And so original sin started for mankind. God simply wanted man to live by some rules it seems. Though people say all religions are same, now look at Gurbani. The guru says come and ‘seek’ but be ready to sacrifice yourself, your ego and your ideas. A complete contrast. The guru says jo to praem khaelan kaa chaao If you so yearn to explore bonding with the eternal drama (or, if you want to play this game of love with Me), sier dhhurr talee galee maeree aao step onto My Path with your mind and ego in your alms ( or, then step into my path with your head in hand).eith maarag pair dhhurreejai When you place your feet on this Path, sir dheejai kaan n keejai submit your mind and forget all other ideas, theories etc, ( Give me your head, and do not pay attention to public opinion.

xxviii) Islam believe when Adam and Eve who were posted in Heaven by God, didn’t obey God’s command, they were sent to earth as a punishment whereas Gurbani propagate there is no physical place called Heaven and mankind is sent to Earth, in a part of His play, to earn ‘Dharma’ and day, night, air, water, seasons etc. are created for the convenience of mankind to enjoy and conveniently earn ‘Dharma’ which facilitate them to ‘swims across’ which means the end of transmigration and the attainment of poise and not a punishment. The soul keeps coming back in different bodies so it can perfect itself to get out of the cycle of birth and death. Because of the choices we make, we continue to suffer, when we listen to the inner voice to perfect ourselves, we can redeem our soul from the comings and goings.
xxix) Muslims strictly bury dead whereas Sikhism cremates but can bury too in case of crisis.
There are some more which I will list later on.
xxx) While Islam believe Satan crept into heaven, polluted the Book kept by God(!), which was written in Arabic, so people could understand that God is an Arab? The message is meant for Arabs? Thus everyone should learn Arabic, the sacred language? Gurbani observes that God is beyond language, the Guru Granth uses many languages to explain its message. Gurbani is God Itself, God the Unstruck Melody, Anhad Nad, calling you to unity. There is no question of God being polluted by any evil spirit.
xxxi) While Gurbani is revealed by the direct inspiration of God, Islamic concept
of God precludes communication between God and people or the angels.
Regards Sahni Mohinder
 
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gurbilas

SPNer
Jun 25, 2005
10
2
53
UK
devinesanative said:
"Religion is Nothing but a Huge Multinational Corporation with one and only one Product "Philosophy having FAITH as its Nucleus" , with one and only one marketing weapon "Psychology".
:idea:

If We are True Sikhs then we should dress ourselves from inside with the powerful thoughts and Guru weechars of our Gurus. If we can do so then we won't critisize any religion , caste , creed etc.

I also recommend that Sikhs should read not only Islam but each and every religious text . We are the Sikhs , meaning Disciples and a disciple of a God should not restrict himself/herself to , or be narrow minded .

From the Whole Guru Granth Sahib , One of the Most thing which is very precious is that "Remaining Pure amid Impurities is the sign of a true character" .


If we have surrended to God and have Faith in It , Then no one is going to convert anyone . Moreover , it cannot be assumed that if a person doesn't goes to gurudwara or any religious place is not religious.


I have seen many Sikhs who read Guru Granth sahib like Parrots , but Still they don't have FAITH in it . STill they have scarcity and narrow Mindset .

In most of the discussion Forums What I have observed is that instead of promoting the guru bani , what they do is , All the members in the forum try to compete with each other , try to show that how much they know about . How great he or she is and nothing else . They stretch each and every sentece even the simple one like a chewing gum and nothing else.


I have observed that 99 % of the Sikhs don't have faith in GOD , They read Guru Granth Sahib as a daily chore and nothing else.Most even don't read from Within heart but to show that how religious they are .

I knew there was a problem but your observation is extremely worrying. I pray you meet some genuine sikhs pretty soon to increase the percentage!
 

gurbilas

SPNer
Jun 25, 2005
10
2
53
UK
devinesanative said:
Are U Satisfied ? Are people Satisfied in Punjab ?

Why people in Punjab and everywhere don't have Faith in SGGS ?

Why People Are eargerly listening to Asa Ram Bapu in Punjab ?

Why People Are eagerly listening to Radha Soami ?

Why ?

Will you accept the people who are satisfied as they are , as they seem to be ?

No , you won't accept the satisfied ?


It is easy to blah blah in the discussion forum , Move out of the house and look inside the people .


SGGS is one of the Best , Granths , and Even the CEO of CISCO and many american companies have read it and they appreciate the value of it .


But , instead of understanding the SGGS we promote , parroting without knowing the meaning of .

Do you have a master plan or are you only trying to tell everybody that is obvious? Exactly as I said before, many of us do not understand the language of the Holy Granth and do not make an effort to realise the meaning. Also we do not need a certificate from different companies for our own reassurance.
 
Sep 11, 2005
511
10
50
:}{}{}: Dear Fella Gurbilas ji , I should address you as Mahapurkh.

Wahe Guru Ji ka khalsa , Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh ,
SPN de mail ne minoo leyanda etheh ,
Bole sonehal , Sat Sri Akal ,
Reply padr ke kiyon kita hain tusi apna bura haal.

Take it Easy , Take it Easy , Be Cool Be Cool , Mahapurkh ji .

Let me quote the content of Sahni

Mohinder ji under fair use of copyrighted material .
Gurbani teaches, ‘hasandiya khailndiya pandhiya khavandhia vichai hovai mukat-While laughing, playing, dressing and eating, one is
liberated.”

As per your reply , I have really met a genuine Sikh , and you know Who Is he .

It is You , Yes You Gurbilas Ji.

You belong to those 1 % Genuine Sikhs ……..

Its very cool to know that , my reply has sparked off a chain reaction in the neurons of your brain .

And , the Ideas of Master plan has popped up in you mind ……..

When I wrote the reply , I didn’t thought of any master plan , But the idea of master plan popped up in your mind .

Yes , Go ahead with your Master plan Mahapurukh ji.

"An idea that is developed and put into action is more important than an idea that exists only as an idea."
Buddha

So , Mahapurkh gurbilas Ji , go ahead and take action . Who knows may be someday you may found and float your own Religion .

"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas."
George Bernard Shaw

It is said that , if you want to be a writier , think like a writer , if you want to be a doctor think like a doctor , if you want to be ………. Sorry the list is long….

If you want to be a religious leader , Mahapurkh , think like it ……… so …

You may even become God , by thinking like a God ………

You have the Idea of Master Plan . Let me give you some tips so that you can float your own Cult or Religion .


1.) Read some religious text voraciously , and Remember it should have been written some thousands of years back.:{;o:
2.) Pick any name from those texts or mythologies , remember it should be Sanskrit or some Chinese or Japanese language . :{;o:
3.) And change your name with that name or prefix it your existing name. If your parents have already given you the name which already exists in those texts then no problem , you don’t need to change it , its golden opportunity then .:{;o:
4.) Then Pick a one slogan from those texts ……..:{;o:
5.) Then pick a new name or coin a new name for the GOD .:{;o:
6.) You may find in many religious texts , the signs and character definitions for a Human being as Reincarnation of God .:{;o:
7.) Adapt yourself to that character , or dive deep inside that character ……….:{;o:
8.) Give some goody goody fundas to the people .
9.) Justify your fundas , then again taking help of the religious texts .

What happened ? Do I hear the great Applause of your followers .

Yes , I visualize , that Baba Mahapurkh Gurbilas ji sitting on the other side on the sacred floor delivering fundas ……..

And , the humble , meek and timid followers listening to you …….

Baba Mahapurkh Gurblilas Ji , tusi ap hi jani jaan ho ……….

Baba Mahapurkh Gurbilas ji di jay , Baba Mahapurkh Gurbilas ji di jay

After 1000 years ie 3005 ,

The world over there is one and only one topic to discuss Baba Mahapurkh Gurbilas Ji was a Reincarnation of God .

Yes , He used to do miracles etc etc…….

As you are In UK so some may suspect being a Christian or being influenced by the Christian philosophy………

So , your Religion will get divided into two sects , One will be western Sect and the other will be Eastern Sect………

Take it Easy , Take it Easy Gurbilas ji ……….. Let me quote the content of Sahni

Mohinder ji under fair use of copyrighted material .
Gurbani teaches, ‘hasandiya khailndiya pandhiya khavandhia vichai hovai mukat-While laughing, playing, dressing and eating, one is
liberated.”

So , Dear Gurbilas Ji , Liberate your anger ………. :}--}: and embrace the laughter ............:}{}{}: :{;o: :) :wah:
 

gurbilas

SPNer
Jun 25, 2005
10
2
53
UK
Dear divinesanative, I am really sorry if you felt I am angry. I'd also suggest you read what you have posted and decide whether it is in any way a constructive material. It gives a suggestion of unnecessary ridiculing to vent some kind of unprovoked agitation.
 

S|kH

SPNer
Jul 11, 2004
380
29
38
We Are PENN STATE!!
I've been going thru the first phase of midterms, so I haven't had time to respond yet.

My last one is tonight, so I shall respond to all the topics addressed relatively soon.

(For anyone wondering where I had disappeared off to)
 

hpluthera

SPNer
Oct 3, 2005
65
3
Auckland
Dear Friend
Reading other religious books and understanding other religions is very important but it should be important only once you have understood Guru nanak.
His most time associate Bhai Mardana was a Muslim. he went to mecca and ispelled the doubts amongst Muslims who fell to His feet. Guru Nanak said Awal Allah Noor Upaiya Kudrat Ke Sab Bande Ek noor te sab Jag Upjiya Kon Bhale Kaun Mande.

To Reach the almighty Lord which is the only goal of this human life as per Gur Bani
stick to one path of Naam Simran as it is inclusive and simple. Understand all humans equals not their religion as religion does not decide who is good or bad man's good deed give him the place of respect.
Your passion is good to learn about others Bule shah said first read yourself before your read others.
Guru's Message is universal, your facination is temporary.

Read Gur Bani for guidance and Sikh History for understanding reality of Sacrifice.
HP Luthera
S|kH said:
I reccommend the Quran to all Sikh students.

Before you assume that I have converted faiths or have a hidden agenda to destroy sikhi, I would just like to explain my side.

I have no need to convert, as I am not the firmest believer in organized religion, hence why I am a Sikh. There is no "conversion ritual" to enter the faith and the community of its followers.

I treat "holy" books as intelligence, not divine order or necessarily divine truth. That's why I can read the Bible and Koran and just intake the amount of intelligence they hold without becoming a follower of the actual religion. I can read the SGGS and contemplate it rather than just assume its truth.

Even though I am not Khalsa yet, I will only become and be part of the Khalsa Panth.

So, here me out and why I put this strong reccomendation to all Sikh students. And by students, I do not mean Sikh Youth, I mean people who have practiced/read/and actively follow the Sikh religion and Sikh politics.

Islam is the active submission to God. It's a psychological cleansing to eradicate your mind and submit your dues to God.

There is wisdom in those books but it is useless to most. The word of God is useless to one that can only read it and not live it. Islam to me is a powerful religion that is based on a mental strength and submission to God. In that submission it clears the psychological path to the other side of your self. For if there is a hope in you, the dream to do good, to succeed and to prosper, and then it is only logical to assume there is another side. If life struggles to prolong itself and to maintain its existence, then something within you must work towards self annihilation. For all the good in you there must be a part of you that lives in the complacency of failure and works toward negativity. Islam addresses that struggle, it gives people inner strength that have nothing. Being one with God makes those parts of you clearer to see.

As a Sikh growing up, when you see history/Gurus/1984 you are filled with the need to make a change, to progress, and to do good for all. You see the Guru's lifestyle and you want to accomplish what they did, you want to lead, you want tos ucceed and prosper, and help out every human whose suffereing. Then, you face current society, you face your own community whose become so corrupted. This is exactly what I mean by the wars of the mind. One side seeks good, while the other starts to seek self-annlihation. Me, and many sikhs that I've spoken to, have at times become so fed up and sad with the state of the Sikhs, or the future of the Sikhs that they feel they should jus give up. Everyone sees the Sikh identity going away, even as uncles begin to tell you that you dont need kesh anymore, and you see your children may give it away too. So what's the point, if eventually someone will cut it. This is what I mean by self-annlihation. I do not mean suicide, but eradicating your own self, your own culture, and "giving in".

I've only read and understood part of the Quran, but even the little I have, it does help, and I recommend it to all children of the same league as me.

At times, I feel as reading the SGGS it does not factor in the struggle of the mind that I face at times, hence where the Quran can come in as a factor.
 
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