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Islam Quran - To All Sikh Students

Sep 4, 2005
266
236
Punjab, India
devinesanative said:
Dear Young Gentle Man Muslim ,


Why you people have ramzaans or rozas , I have read in local news an article publshed by your scholars .

If any muslim keeps his rozas properly , then he will get ZANNAT , where at the doors of ZANNAT some gorgeous HOORS and PARIS , will be awaiting for you ..............


You people worship god only of HOORS and PARIS ...................


Dear Muslim,

I would like to ask you a simple question ....

Should we do good deads and remember Allah just to get Lots & Lots of Hoors and beautiful virgins in Heaven !!!

I have read so much about Quran and everywhere I find that the people are being asked to be Afraid of Allah and follow Him to get Beautiful Hoor and Virgins in Heaven.... Why so much craving for Sex.

Should a Muslim keep craving for Sexual enjoyment in Heaven ?? Should a Muslim keep fantasizing whole life for the beautiful Virgin waiting for him in Heaven ?? Should a Muslim keep Rozas just to be sure of Advance booking in Heaven with all the comforts of wine and women ????? !!!!!!

Why can't Muslims be told to do good deads just for the sake of goodness !!

Why can't Muslims be told to be good to all human beings irrespective of caste creed and faith. Isn't it enough that the others are Humans too, to deserve compassion.
 
Sep 4, 2005
266
236
Punjab, India
muslim said:
But it is a known fact that the quran has never been modified or changed.

My dear Muslim

I must tell you a simple Truth - You cannot subjugate Allah with Quran. Allah is not dependent on Quran. You cannot enclose the unlimited power and beauty of Allah in Quran. No amount of Wisdom can define and comprehend the Vastness of Allah. Billions and Billions of people have visited this earth for millions of years till now. Not even the combined wisdom and might is enough to put in words the beauty of Allah --- Because He is Too Great and Human mind is Too small to know Him enough.
 

muslim

SPNer
Dec 29, 2004
118
1
37
uk
Why is it everytime i visit this website people such as "devinesanative" put me off visiting this website due to there shear ignorance and poor knowledge of islam. OK devinesanative we worship on Fridays to the God Venus because we believe in multiple gods, we fast to get beutiful virgins in heaven and all your sources on islam are correct. If you believe that you'll believe anything.
 
Jul 13, 2004
2,364
382
52
Canada
muslim said:
If all roads lead to the same destination and god is willing to embrace all then why in three (maybe more) of them (islam, christianity and judaism) does it say that each of them is the only path to salvation and all other religions are false?
I see a very important point raised here. Above attitude is perhaps primarily due to the human tendencies to prove superiority over others, and to satisfy own ego.
 
Jul 13, 2004
2,364
382
52
Canada
muslim said:
Why is it everytime i visit this website people such as "devinesanative" put me off visiting this website due to there shear ignorance and poor knowledge of islam. OK devinesanative we worship on Fridays to the God Venus because we believe in multiple gods, we fast to get beutiful virgins in heaven and all your sources on islam are correct. If you believe that you'll believe anything.

devinesanative and manbir ji,

Let us resort to understand the actual purpose of S|kh veer's post, which I feel is a great message. Let us exercise more patience and tolerance while dealing with (any) religious sentiments.

Best Regards, Arvind.
 
Sep 4, 2005
266
236
Punjab, India
Dear Muslim,

My understanding is that if Muslims follow Quran properly there would be no problem between believers and non-believers. The problem has started because people have forgotten the real teachings of Quran. There is nothing wrong with Quran. Its the priestly class that has created the problem. If Muslims follow the real spirit or the real meaning of the text of Quran I am sure this world would be a better place to live.
I feel the real culprit is the clergy that has for centuries been giving out lopsided interpretation of the divine teachings of Quran. At present the Muslims have become a hostage to the web created by the clergy.

Its with every religion. The clergy always tries to get hold of the innocent masses with its interpretation of the holy books in a way that suits its ends. The clergy considers itself the sole custodian of the religion. This creates the entire problem. They always try to create rift of understanding with other faiths, which suites them the most. They create rules to be followed by common man, which with passage of time become so much embedded into the society that anything against it becomes blasphemous.

The world today is very different place what it was centuries back. It’s much better place now. Human thinking has become better than what it was in the past.
In the past Humans have committed more crimes in the name of religion.

Today the level of education is much better than what it was before. And I am optimistic about future too. People of different faiths would gradually percolate to a common centre of gravity with better understanding of each other. We’ll see lesser role of priestly class in the affairs of men and women. And once this happens we’ll have very little excuse to fight each other.
.
 

2ruakalbir

SPNer
Oct 6, 2005
9
0
Dear S|kh,
I understand looking to religious texts from the historical viewpoints. But I disagree that anyone, especially Sikhs should look to the koran. You mentioned that you found intelligence in the koran, can you please explain this?
Did you come across this quote from the koran:
And kill them wherever you find them [we infidels], and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. - Koran, Surah II:191, "The Cow."

or the many quotes regarding women, non-beleivers, killing, polygamy and such in the koran. Can you explain the intelligence in those things for me? I just posted up a tame quote, there are many more, which promote intolerance to non-muslims, women, etc...
 
Sep 11, 2005
511
10
50
Dear Muslim ,


Just Tell me if Fool is born every Minute , Then what was that Time When you were born which has made u a wise guy ..............

I know that Veer Aman Singh Ji will delete this posting but still I am writing ..........

Just Tell Us where should Non-Believer Go Now acoording to Islam ............

Koran is not a religious text it is more or less law and order ...........

Just tell me now we have Law and Order maintained by the state and country ........

As Per your koran which is pure law and order ................

If I wish that No one should Thug me , Then I think that according to koran ......... we should chant like that ........

"O' Section 420 oF Indian Penal Code , don't send THug to Me" and repeat 108 times in the morning and Evening ................

How can merely chanting the law and order code , get rid of what ever you call gin or bhooot ............
 

rosethorne

SPNer
Aug 13, 2005
148
1
50
New Delhi
WJKK
WJKF
Dear divinesanativeji, You have said very true. But Dear Muslimji, I just want to know that Where ever you can find the KORAN but Where do you find the Peace in Islamic Community.There is no peace in Houses of Muslims, Every Girl Every Woman complaining about SHARIA. There is no peace whatever you can do, you can challenge people and do waste conversations, But you will never find ALLAH. That is in Koran But you and your community cannot find HIM. Because of full of Ego and Anger towards other communities, possesive but not Sensible. ALLAHTALA has given birth to you and your community but you can see in the history that how many bloodiest of bloodsheds was done by the Muslim Kings and fighters. What is the whole scenerio on Earth today, Every Muslim is thinking to kill the others only. Don't they know about KORAN. You must teach Koran to your fellow whole community and try to find the truth of KORAN then please try to say to others. It is not your fault that you are taking everything as challenge but Whole muslim community is like that. You are not thinking sensibly but to oppose others only. First to Growup and find the answers of the KORAN and then if you can do challenge to others you willbe welcomed everywhere.
 

hpluthera

SPNer
Oct 3, 2005
65
3
Auckland
I congratulate and thank Mr. Mohinder Sahni of Kuwait for excellent and very enlightening comparison of Sikhism with Islam many of Sikhs get confused buy couple of verses but in depth do not understand Sri Guru Nanak's Sarv Sanjhin Bani one of the best Interfaith conference he staretd in 14th 15th century. Sikhi Answers doubts irrespective of any one's religious Background therefore all Seekers are first Sikhs and when they reach the stage of total Naam awastha become Khalsa. In that context all Khalsas are Sikhs but all Sikhs may not be Khalsa. Khalsa is the ultimate for a Sikh.
We are having a Interfaith conference in New Zealand for youger group and have forwarded a copy of this to all participants.
Regards
HP Luthera
japjisahib04 said:
My request before you suggest anyone to waste time in reading Quran, let them read the following comparison. Gurbani tells us one just need gian to instrtuct the mind how to be truthful and need not confine within the walls of books.

Though Muslims and Sikh religions shares belief in One Reality and are very much close to each other in many fundamentals like condemning of casteism, idol worship, but there is difference in other basic resolutions.
i) Sikh believe in reincarnation and deeds whereas in Muslims only one birth & death. Gurmat firmly believe either in merger into God by virtuous deeds or into re-incarnation thus didn’t agree with the theory of Islam that there is only one chance, there is only one way, and we are judged according to it and re-incarnation theory is absurd. A human can only exit the web of karma by meditating on Gurmat Naam and immersing the self into Akaal. Gurbani cautions,“ies pauri tai jo nar chukai so aaye jaey dukh paeda - that human whosoever does not live a truthful life and miss the opportunity of being human suffers in the form of re-incarnation.” - Guru Granth ang.1075.15. As a mother is compassionate so is God. With thousands of mistakes, the mother sometimes gets frustrated, but never stops loving the child. It is God who put that compassionate nature into the mother. How can we say God is not compassionate at all? The human will make thousands of mistakes in their life, no matter how holy they are, but God will always love them, help them, and be compassionate towards them. He gives them thousands of chances and these chances, which come in many forms, are called re-incarnation.
ii) Muslims believe in absolute God who resides in the Seventh world whereas Sikh believe in God who Himself is absolute and self-governing but cannot be contained in a certain place. Verses of Gurbani says, “nanak ka patshah dessai jaahra – Satguru Nanak’s God is right in His creation.” - Guru Granth ang.397.7. In addition Guru Nanak says listen O, people “nanak kahat suno rai logha sant rasan to baseeho - Waheguru lives on the tongue of the Saint (who has tamed his mind through sabd) a living person.” - Guru Granth ang.700.11.
iii) Muslims believe creation of world in six days (though time is subjective) and end on Roze-qiamat whereas Sikh view the universe as an act of instant creation - a spontaneous manifestation of the unattributed Primal God- and its dissolution. It also says no one knows how many times it has come into existence and how many times it has evaporated in flick of an eye blink. Gurbani tells us like this, “khin maithaph uthapda - in an instant, He establishes and disestablishes.” - Guru Granth ang.706.3. Thus it supports evolution theory as per science. It further believes it is a divine sport and “whenever it pleases Him He created the Universe and as He desires, He absorbs it back into Himself.” - Guru Granth ang.292.8. Besides this, Gurbani further says, “kaei baar pasreo pasaar - Many times He has expanded universal expansion, yet each time at the end (and before) abides the Sole Supreme Being.” - Guru Granth ang.276.13.
iv) Muslims yearn for Heaven whereas Sikh believe to merge back into God from whom we were separated - “As the waves of water merge again with the water, so does one light merge again into the Light.” - Guru Granth ang.102.7. Both faiths recognize the Oneness of God and regard it as human duty to follow what they describe as the hukm, the Divine Will. However, they differ on the content of this hukm. For Muslims, it can be derived from the Holy Koran, the hadith of the Prophet Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him), the consensus of the religious scholars (ijma)
and argument by analogy (ijtihad). The {censored} is the rebel, the unbeliever, who denies this hukm. For Sikhs, the hukm is unspeakable: "hukm na ka-ha ja-ye". It can only be realized when lived. Therefore, the emphasis is on personal experience rather than
social order. God's laws and truths are written in every human heart,they are inscribed in the very being of our nature, articulated in the body, mind and soul.
v) Muslims believe in fourteen worlds whereas Sikhism in millions of worlds and nether worlds. Gurbani says, “kot brahmand ko thakhur soami - He is God and Master of millions of universe.” - Guru Granth ang.612.5.
vi) Muslims embrace Shari’at whereas Sikh believes in Maryada, His command.
vii) Muslim believe Fasting, Jihad & ‘Sunat’ is their duty (which is not reflected in Quran whereas in Sikhism there is nothing like that but there are five ‘kakaar’ (Kaysh (long hair) ‘Stamp of Guru that you are a Sikh – a symbol of spirituality’, Kanga (comb) ‘a symbol of orderliness and cleanliness’ and to keep the hair. The uncut hair signified traditional ascetic renunciation but it was tamed by the comb which did not allow it to become matted thus symbolizing continued participation in the world; Kachehra (underwear) ‘signifies self control and restraint, to be jati and sati’, Kada (a steel bracelet) ‘to remind to cultivate in himself the awareness of immorality thus not to indulge in any wickedness’ & an iron bracelet an remind me that I am day and night in my Guru's bondage, superstition and to denote the universality of God, and Kirpan (sword) a symbol of power and dignity. It is an instrument of defense and protecting the weak. These ‘kakaar’ are used as article of faith for baptisms that are very much reflected in Guru Granth Sahib in symbolic language. It will be worth mentioning here that wearing of the kakaars is a symbolic acceptance of Guru Sahib's love and way of life. It's an acknowledgement of putting into practice one aspect of the maryada (code of conduct) handed down by the Guru. People however question that if the essence of religion is to love God, then why keep hair. Well if you love someone, and he gives a gift, what do you do with it? Throw it out of the window right in front of him and still say I Love you? Crush it under your feet and still say I love you.
vii) Further, when the foundation of any label is based on discrimination how could its essence merge us with truth – the Akal Purakh who is without descrimination (like Janeu was not allowed to be worn by shudra lower caste and sunnat cannot be performed on women).
viii) In addition, if circumcision makes one a Muslim, then what about a woman? She is the other half of a man’s body, and she does not leave him, so he remains a Hindu. Thus if Akal Purakh wished one to be a Muslim, it would be cut off by itself.” - Guru Granth ang.477.17. These values stress that the real religion for all mankind is one. In this way you shall be a true Hindu and Muslim. Generally typical answer for circumcision is given to be cleanliness. Does it mean Akal Purakh was imperfect and prophet Mohammad had to correct. Impossible - Mohammad was a Akal Purakh lover he never could have meant that “NEVER”. He kept saying that I am an imperfect one...and Akal Purakh (Allah) is great. Oh Akal Purakh YOU are GREAT! So how could he perfect the perfection of Akal Purakh? Even in Anjeel or new Testament (book revered by Islam) Jesus talks of circumsention of mind that matter. Sikhe is not hereditary - it has to be earned by each and every person. Our gurus were never in secured and thus never intended for babies to be forced to chhak amrit. This is the beauty behind Sikh revealed baani. Amrit is not a ritual (like circumcision/baptism/janeu etc.) but a serious commitment to a particular life style and ONLY an ADULT can make that CHOICE rationally made voluntarily. It is a basic tenets and counter measure in self-defense to the path of realization. committed to the tenets of their faith. And the PERSON goes to seek Amrit in complete submission. Therefore, having Amrit does require some outer inspection and inner inspection of the person. INCREASING the numbers of amritdharees by roping in helpless babies when they cannot make a choice is WRONG in Gurmat and as per Gurbani. How could one become a good soldier simply by wearing the uniform? No. First of all the army spirit has to be infused in. Then only one feels they have a goal and point of being here. Gurbani tells us ‘Truth is high, but higher still is truthful living’. Further the spread of Sikhi was never dependent on "interpretation of Gurbani". Sikhi spread through the example of those who practiced it -- who lived it, who walked the path. It was always the EXAMPLE of a Sikh, which inspired others to join the fold. That's how the number of Sikhs kept on increasing even when Governor of Lahore had declared a price on the head of a Sikh -- because the exemplary character of Sikhs inspired others onto the Guru's path, even when doing so meant to be on the run from the government of the day. By taking Amrit from Panj Pyaras Guru Gobind Singh ji put us on the same pedestal as he was on. He lowered himself in order to raise us up. WOW. What a Friend!!
viii) Islam believe to offer sacrifice of animal while reading holy hymn through the process of ‘halal’ with painful death (In old testament when Abraham (Abram at that time) sacrifices his child at that time his God tells him that kill animal by draining blood out of it as blood is life. Again Moses was also instructed on it. Islam does believe in Halal as Jews. Gurmat disagree that life is in blood and not in flesh. We believe God to be everywhere and not such discrimination based on matter, which is decay able. As God is Same in flesh as in blood so why shed blood) whereas Sikhism believes holy hymns from Guru Granth Sahib or any holy book are to glorify and please God, lead virtuous life and not to recite to kill a frightened and helpless animal. It is inconceivable that the Guru had any such bias, for the validity of other religions is freely accepted in Sikh thought. The Guru had noticed what he considered shortcomings in other faiths, but he seems to suggest that trans-valuation of values is the only right possible answer to the existence of such problems. Thus one thing is very clear, according to Sikh thought, if we slaughter an animal for eating and recite prayers along with it, that won't save us from our sin or do the animal any favor. In addition Sikhism does not believe to slaughter animal in the name of sacrifice but for survival and that too in case of crisis and not as an addiction and that too with ‘Jhatka’ (one stroke) and not ‘Halal’. I personally do not believe in the unnecessary killing of animals to satisfy our desires, when there are plenty of other resources available for our survival. It may be stated that eating or not eating meat has a religious sanction in all major faiths; for example, Kosher is allowed for Jews, Halal for Muslims, Bali for Hindus (killed in the name of Goddess). Secondly, some religions prohibit meat of certain animals; pork is prohibited for Muslims and Jews, and beef for Hindus. Some prohibit eating meat, or a particular kind of meat, on some days. Sikh faith is unique in not prescribing any such condition for eating meat, if it is needed to meet the hunger of a Sikh. Besides Gurbani suggests three golden rules for healthy life which are scientifically sound, “do not eat or get addicted to that is not pleasing to the body, that gives pain to the body or eat or drink that produce evil in the mind.” - Guru Granth ang.16.14. Addiction, not only to meat, but even to `things' of daily use (spouse, wealth, affluent life, etc.), is prohibited. Therefore the beauty is that the ultimate decision is left to our own individual common sense or what suits us best. In addition a logical question arises that Halal, Kosher or Brahminical rituals associated with food all claim to "purify" food. What does it signify? That man has the power to "purify" what God created. In other words, man can "improve" upon God.
ix) Unlike interpretation of Islam Sikhs are forbidden to believe that some days or months are auspicious. When you love and remember God, Gurmat says, it is a good day for you, when you ignore Him it is a bad day.
x) Unlike Sikhs who in their daily general and private prayer wish, “Nanak Naam chardhee kala. Terey bhanney Sarbatt da bhalla”, - welfare for the whole humanity irrespective of their religion, Muslims only say, “May peace be upon all Muslim brothers and sisters and may God guide to all Non-Muslim.
xi) Muslim believe if we exercise good conduct in this world, we can watch dances of nymphs in the heaven, over here if we do not consume wine, we will get ‘Somras’ in heaven, over here if we donate little, over there we get palaces studded with pearls and diamonds. If you convert someone to your faith you get so and so award (A great Muslim poet and theologist Dr. Mohammand Iqbal lashed out and said, “bahishto houron ghilma evjai taiet mai na manugha eini bbaataon sai vaez jeif emon hota hai - O preacher you have weaken my belief, if by reading holy scripts, praying and good conduct, gets me in paradise where I am promised fairy girls, wine, wealth and property, then even the heaven you have made into a market), Sikh are not looking for converts like vultures fan the skies for dead meat whereas in Sikhism there is no trade-in.
xii) Guru Nanak has offered no incentives such as nymphs, or houries or wealth etc. He says, “nanak kai ghar keval naam- Satguru Nanak’s home is filled with only Naam, the Name of God, His lotus feet - the cosmic hymn – the eternal bliss.” - Guru Granth ang.1136.16.
xiii) And as per Sikhism whosoever irrespective of any profession, caste status, religion have understood that “this human body conferred on us, is our only chance to merge back into God by reciting His glorious virtues from the core of heart, his toil is over to merge back into Him. This bliss is beyond wine, wealth and nymphs.” - Guru Granth ang.12.6, but those who don’t merged back, wander into cycle of reincarnation or suffer as per their deeds.
xiv) Since He is TRUTH, which is eternal and forever, Sikhism believes in the eternal Living Guru Granth Sahib for guidance, whereas Islam believes after Mohammad there is no messenger of God. Muslims believe in entire sentence ‘kalmah’ (la elahaa eel alaah - Mohammad -u- rasul aalah’ whereas Sikh does not relate first half with second half which declares no prophet or apostle will come after Mohammad and no new faith will be born " - Our apostles were our Gurus and now our living Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Inspite of this Islam claim a new faith Sikhism was born and which is a reality.
xv) Islam believe Mohamad is the last messenger and Islam is last religion and no more (prophet) would come again for protecting people at this present age of crime and insecurity??????? Whereas in Sikhism. In God’s infinite creation, there is no such thing as the last prophet or the last religion.
xvi) Muslim belief the body is made of four elements but gurbani tells us it is five elements and modern science has confirmed it is five and not four elements. (Earth, water, fire, air and fifth is soul, ether or spirit)
xvii) Whereas in Islam music is not permitted even outside of Mosque and considered to be a hindrance to counting the 99 names of Allah and disturb single mindedness, Sikhism believes music along with the their tunes is the vehicle to sing holy hymn which are composed in poetry and musicality adopted and are sung inside the Gurudwara and believes it awakens deeper layers of human heart and consciousness. Keertan is an added bonus because it has a music in it. It encompasses what is otherwise indescribable and incommunicable. Divine wisdom is laced with sweet melodious fragrance by different tunes. This divine melody tunes the soul with Rhythm Eternal.
xviii) Gurmat didn’t agree with the philosophy of resurrection that a judgment day will come when this soul will re-enter the body even after that body is turned into ashes. Gurbani tells us ‘Aapen khail aap kar dekhai, khail sakonchai tau nanak eikai - this all is the show of His sport and He Himself is watching this panorama. When He winds up His _expression then He alone will be left behind.” - Guru Granth ang.292.2. Though Gurmat accepts about winding up the show but conclude then He only will remain, and rejects the concept ‘that all human beings who have lived in the world since its inception will be restored to life and presented before Allah who will judge them on that day upon Absolute Justice. Obviously it is not true. However if you try to make sense in a way that the person who is not religious, his soul is dead in his body and body is graveyard for his soul, and if he follows religion his soul will resurrect in his body. It makes sense. Gurmat didn’t believe that soul remain standstill when as per the Will, it has continue process until it merges back with God. The Law cannot stop operating at any time. Even the most advance science has proved this point. So Gurmat distanced itself from this concept.
xix) Gurbani tells us 'manas ki jaat eko pehchanobo' or ek noor tai sabh jagh utrai kon bhalai kon mandhai, whereas teaching of Islam tells us that other than Muslims all are {censored} or malech.
xx) In Islam women are not permitted to join the congregation whereas Gurbani in line with equal rights to women specially invites them with following versus, “Come my sisters and spiritual companion! Clasp me close in your embrace. Let us join together and tell stories of our All Powerful Spouse (God).” - Guru Granth ang.17.16.
xxi) Islam believes praying on a particular day at Mecca fetches and is equal to hundred thousand prayers whereas Sikhism believes in level of love and devotion and not number of prayers.
xxii) One of most important ritual of every Muslim is to visit and pray at Mecca once in a life whereas it is not mandatory for Sikhism to pray at their holiest shrine Amritsar. For them wherever there is compilation of Guru Granth Sahib, it is the holiest of holy.
xxiii) Muslim bury body and ‘nafis’ (desires) in grave whereas Sikh believe at the time of death soul leaves the body and wander in many incarnation or merged back into Him as per the deeds or His grace,
xxiv) Islam believe Adam and Eve were the first creation, whereas as per gurmat and Sikhism ‘Nobody knows.’ And in one’s spiritual development, this piece of information is of no consequence. …. All tall claims by some that they know as to who was the first human? is nothing but a concoction of fairy tales of empty boastings.xxv) 1) Muslim believe in fasting that is why they consider Ramadhan a holy month and fast the whole month,, Guru Nanak says mission of mankind on Earth is to earn ‘Dharam’ by nurturing love, day and night from the core of heart while contemplating on His virtues and chanting His Name. How can a devotee by fasting, torturing, sufferings or suppressing appetite concentrate or devote to utter His Naam. Gurbani tells us, all these actions are the cause of deviation, thus it is only a hypocrisy. In relation to fasting Gurbani declared it this way, “Chodaih aan karai pakhand na oh suhaghan na o rand ] - one who fasts and discards food during purnmashi, karva choith, naratai, ramadhan, is practicing hypocrisy. He is like a rolling stone and is neither a happy soul-bride, nor a widow.” - Guru Granth ang.873.4. Besides it yields no bonus marks. It is not a mean to wash any sins, it is not a mean to fulfill any of your desires, and it is not a mean to please Akal Purakh or merge into Akal Purakh. We pose to abstain from food outwardly but from inside body suffers in pain and is disturbed with fire of desires. It is hypocrisy. If really eaten less, it stabilizes the agitation in mind. This is what Gurbani advises “Sleep little, and eat little; O learner Nanak, this is the essence of wisdom.” - Guru Granth ang.939.4. Thus Gursikhs are fasting everyday. This process described here does not overload the body and abuse the beautiful machinery/apparatus gifted to us FREE without any effort on our part. Gurbani thus advises instead earn the fruitful rewards by observing the fast of knowing your own self with a pledge not to speak lies at least that day. Gurbani proclaims, “sach varat santokh keerat gian dhayan isnan, deaya devta kheema japmaal tai manas pradhan - the most excellent are those who have truth as their fast, contentment as their sacred shrine of pilgrimage, spiritual wisdom and meditation as their cleansing bath, kindness as their deity, and forgiveness as their chanting beads.” – Guru Granth ang.1245.11.
xxvi) Whereas Sikhs are the only people in the world who have with them authenticitic Divine revelation with them in the language and words in which the same was received written by their own prophet where qoran was not written by Prophet Mohamd as direct revelation but was written after his death by 2nd umar upon heresay.
xxvii) As per Islam God said to Adam. ‘Do not eat of the apple’. That is, God was trying to say to Adam. Stop being inquisitive, you will bring problems upon yourself. And so original sin started for mankind. God simply wanted man to live by some rules it seems. Though people say all religions are same, now look at Gurbani. The guru says come and ‘seek’ but be ready to sacrifice yourself, your ego and your ideas. A complete contrast. The guru says jo to praem khaelan kaa chaao If you so yearn to explore bonding with the eternal drama (or, if you want to play this game of love with Me), sier dhhurr talee galee maeree aao step onto My Path with your mind and ego in your alms ( or, then step into my path with your head in hand).eith maarag pair dhhurreejai When you place your feet on this Path, sir dheejai kaan n keejai submit your mind and forget all other ideas, theories etc, ( Give me your head, and do not pay attention to public opinion.

xxviii) Islam believe when Adam and Eve who were posted in Heaven by God, didn’t obey God’s command, they were sent to earth as a punishment whereas Gurbani propagate there is no physical place called Heaven and mankind is sent to Earth, in a part of His play, to earn ‘Dharma’ and day, night, air, water, seasons etc. are created for the convenience of mankind to enjoy and conveniently earn ‘Dharma’ which facilitate them to ‘swims across’ which means the end of transmigration and the attainment of poise and not a punishment. The soul keeps coming back in different bodies so it can perfect itself to get out of the cycle of birth and death. Because of the choices we make, we continue to suffer, when we listen to the inner voice to perfect ourselves, we can redeem our soul from the comings and goings.
xxix) Muslims strictly bury dead whereas Sikhism cremates but can bury too in case of crisis.
There are some more which I will list later on.
xxx) While Islam believe Satan crept into heaven, polluted the Book kept by God(!), which was written in Arabic, so people could understand that God is an Arab? The message is meant for Arabs? Thus everyone should learn Arabic, the sacred language? Gurbani observes that God is beyond language, the Guru Granth uses many languages to explain its message. Gurbani is God Itself, God the Unstruck Melody, Anhad Nad, calling you to unity. There is no question of God being polluted by any evil spirit.
xxxi) While Gurbani is revealed by the direct inspiration of God, Islamic concept
of God precludes communication between God and people or the angels.
Regards Sahni Mohinder
 

hpluthera

SPNer
Oct 3, 2005
65
3
Auckland
Unfortunately lot of Mulims today find Glory in Martyrdom of those who Kill lot of innocents. Glorious living is in self sacrifice for others protection. Martyrdom is Fighting for those who are opressed. I believe that majority of the Muslim world today poor and seeking guidance from the Rich
HP Luthera
rosethorne said:
WJKK
WJKF
Dear divinesanativeji, You have said very true. But Dear Muslimji, I just want to know that Where ever you can find the KORAN but Where do you find the Peace in Islamic Community.There is no peace in Houses of Muslims, Every Girl Every Woman complaining about SHARIA. There is no peace whatever you can do, you can challenge people and do waste conversations, But you will never find ALLAH. That is in Koran But you and your community cannot find HIM. Because of full of Ego and Anger towards other communities, possesive but not Sensible. ALLAHTALA has given birth to you and your community but you can see in the history that how many bloodiest of bloodsheds was done by the Muslim Kings and fighters. What is the whole scenerio on Earth today, Every Muslim is thinking to kill the others only. Don't they know about KORAN. You must teach Koran to your fellow whole community and try to find the truth of KORAN then please try to say to others. It is not your fault that you are taking everything as challenge but Whole muslim community is like that. You are not thinking sensibly but to oppose others only. First to Growup and find the answers of the KORAN and then if you can do challenge to others you willbe welcomed everywhere.
 
Sep 11, 2005
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Dear Scholars and Friends


I have been on this site for past few days only , but I have observed something found something amazing …………

I would like to put forth the suggestion , that before we recommend or suggest any sikh or anyone to read SGGS or any other religious Text .

We should first start from A , B , C ……….

And the ABC is Understanding and Developing the Brain , Motivation and Communication .

These three things are the Key to understand SGGS or any Religious Text …………..

Unless and Until we teach ABC , there is bound to be confliction and egoes ………..

Suggesting or Recommending any one before understanding the capacity of his/her brain , motivation and communication skills may only lead to wrong understanding ………..

As you are Scholars , you might have observed that most of the Religious texts are written in a poetic way , and it also contains , allegories , parable , metaphors and smilies, So , it may be difficult for the layman to understand it properly ……..

I being a poet and writer sometimes when I write , I use some words that suit the lyricism , melody and rhythm of the poem and text , which a layman may not understand .

Same is the case with all the writer or composers of the verses of the religious texts including SGGS .

Sometimes when I teach about Software Development to the students , I use high language , which automatically comes to mind and end result is sometimes students don’t understand .

This is not only with me , But it happens with all .It might have happened with you scholars also ….

And , is the same with the composers and writers of verses of all the religious text ……

So , without preparing the layman and bringing him/her to that certain level of understanding , there is bound to be misunderstanding in interpretation .

All the religious text including SGGS , just guide us towards living a civilized life in the guidance of AKAL .

Just like we have ISO 9000 for standardization of products , then we have IEEE , JPEG and many more standard .

What these provide us , What ought be , and what must be and they don’t have any specification of how it should be done , where it should be done , when it should be done .

Same is the case with the Religious Text , they only guide us about what ought and and what must be to have a civilized society ……..

There are other Four also How , why and when , where ……….

The society in the modern day is educated enough , but not so in the real sense ……..

If you have studied medical science , it does not means that you may be educated in the real sense , you are only educated in the medical science ……… but still you may not be educated ………. Being educated is different thing.

Dear scholars I will write bit by bit , and chunks and chunks , right now many things are coming to mind …………..

But before you comment any thing one this , I have a humble request to please be patience and keep reading the upcoming posts . and then after that you do as you wish .


PS : In many of my posts I have behaved childish , But please ignore that , it was due to some other purpose ……… As many scholars and enlightened people say that they have controlled anger and master anger and everything ….. so it just a ……… Sorry for that
If I would have talked sweet and sweet and LOLOPOPO language it would have been difficult to understand the true nature of the Scholars …… Sorry for that …..

Please No Ego involved here …………

written offline and posted online ................
 
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Admin

SPNer
Jun 1, 2004
6,692
5,240
SPN
Dear devinesnative,

Thanks a lot for staying on with SPN Fellowship. You make me feel so proud to be a Sikh... :)

I agree that it sometimes gets over the head with so many heads providing different perspectives on the same issue. We are bound to agree or disagree to somebody opinion but that opinion is not binding on us...

You may have been offended by some of the remarks put forward by some of the members on this forum. The best way of tackling such remarks is to ignore them as replying to them only instigates more disturbing thoughts and naive ourbursts. Ignoring such remarks does not mean that we have accepted their arguements. In Gurbani it is said "Fool is a person, who thinks s/he knows everything, Even Bigger Fool is s/he, who argues with such a Fool." :)

The spirit of SPN is that everybody gets equal chance of presenting their perspectives irrespective of his religious background... These views may be openminded, bigoted, biased or narrowminded. We leave such posts and threads un-edited for the whole world to see, judge and realise how people behave in a given situation or to be more specific, in a given environment. For this same reason we have managed to retain so many persons from various religious/cultural backgrounds coming and sharing their thoughts over various issues. I think this the biggest benefit we have gotten from this website. ;)

Again, thanks a lot for staying with us. We would love to listen and read more of your poetry in coming days. :)

Please accept my best regards.


Aman Singh
SPN Sewadaar
 
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rosethorne

SPNer
Aug 13, 2005
148
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New Delhi
WJKK
WJKF
Dear Amanji, You are awesome really, why don't you try in Politics. You really know how to tackle situations, Great! But in my view when a sikh is bringing a topic like,QURAN-For all sihk students, Then it is good but when a muslim like person enters into that then suddenly Quran get out of the topic and only Muslim is there. It is disgusting. The topic was presnted for knowing about Quran. But the real fact of muslims we know from last so many decades. And it is also we are seeing here. That is Very true that One who claims, he knows everything is a fool, But who argues with that fool is a bigger fool, But some times like when a topic is going offtopic then heads also gone out. It is not a fault of anybody. So I really urge to everybody including Muslimji that we should talk into the topic values.
Thanks.
 
Jul 13, 2004
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Aman Singh said:
The spirit of SPN is that everybody gets equal chance of presenting their perspectives irrespective of his religious background... These views may be openminded, bigoted, biased or narrowminded. We leave such posts and threads un-edited for the whole world to see, judge and realise how people behave in a given situation or to be more specific, in a given environment. For this same reason we have managed to retain so many persons from various religious/cultural backgrounds coming and sharing their thoughts over various issues. I think this the biggest benefit we have gotten from this website. ;)
Thank You... Aman veer, You are awesome :wah:

Respectfully, Arvind.
 
Dec 8, 2005
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I agree fully what you say.
But I have questions to you ?

1. Does the word " Secularism " exist in QURAN. How are non muslims supposed to be treated.

2 Secondly is it possible to start a new gurdwara / Church/ Temple in Pakistan or any other Islamic country.

3. Is it possible to change ones religion if you are a believer in Quaran . Which I as an sikh/ Hindu/ christian can do.

So let us not try to potray " I am holier than though attitude " .

Gurbani sums it all well

" We are all One the children of same gods."

The world is already going thru and has gone thru lots of turmoil due to these artificial differences.

love to all

and " Sarat Ka bhalla "

Dr HP SINGH
 

japjisahib04

Mentor
SPNer
Jan 22, 2005
822
1,294
kuwait
I don't think there is anything wrong with Quran, it is shariate or maryada which calls all non-muslims as {censored}. This is an insult to humanity.
You cannot open a Gurdwara or temple in islamic countries, especially Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. Not only that you are deprived of the right to pray, even after death, you body is not permitted to be created.
Yes it is not permitted for a muslim to convert. This is one of the reason for slow progress of sikhism. But that day is not far when latest technology and education will inspire them to look after better path.
Regards Sahni Mohinder
 
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